|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 3:17:10 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
I do not know a single adult believer that thinks Jesus was born any time even close to December 25 - and I knew that when I was a teenager some 40 plus years ago. And only a few are naive enough to think Jesus was a limp-wristed, blue-eyed European man like the ones seen in a lot of paintings.
quote:
THEN after i was born again i started studying and i found out, for the first time in my life, that December 25th is actually NOT Jesus' birthday. I was stunned.
Personal editing on purpose! Haha.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 3:21:23 PM
|
|
|
LBolt
Posts: 941
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Jimbo:There isn't a living soul on planet earth that worships a sun god on Christmas.
Really?! You know what ever living soul on this planet actually believes? 
Here's some links from several sources some non-Christian
http://www.zenzibar.com/Articles/christmas.asp
http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/504/Christmas-Tree.htm
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm
Here's an article by a muslim, very interesting and sad!
http://answering-islam.org/Pagan/dhia.html
There is a lot of information available for anyone to research and arrive at a honest, well informed conclusion. It's very important that we purge the leaven out of the body of Messiah so that we can be a pure, clean lump. So that non-believers can see our goods works and glorify our heavenly father. I don't post to condemn anyone but I truly desire to edify God's people. If that means tearing down falsehoods by shining the light of truth...so be it. If the truth rubs your flesh raw...let it be rubbed raw until we see just how filthy it smells to our heavenly Father, the unsaved and equally important...ourselves.
Anyone with a conscious, who desires to serve and please God, who has the Ruach HaChodesh on on the inside should take heed to their ways. That includes me and anyone else. After knowing the truth and being exposed to it, we are accountable for what we know.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 3:27:19 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Anyone with a conscious...
You misspelled Conscience. And that was the high point of your whole post.
I'm sure nobody on this whole forum desires to serve and please God like you do. But I want cha to know that you are not the only one who truly loves God the Son. You also seem to have a long way to go before you get what it means to follow the spirit and not the letter of the Law.
You didn't comment so I'll ask:
Do you tell Christian men to avoid women because some ancient religions used them as temple prostitutes and, therefore, all of them represent pagan ritualistic orgies?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 3:41:56 PM
|
|
|
LBolt
Posts: 941
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Do you tell Christian men to avoid women because some ancient religions used them as temple prostitutes and, therefore, all of them represent pagan ritualistic orgies...
I probably didn't answer because this is, with all do respect, totally outside of the discussion. I can't believe you even posted this. This is like apples and oranges and has no bearing whatsoever about the pagan customs of Christmas.
I posted what I posted in order to state that believers practice what they practice because they love God, however, they are serving Him without a lack of understanding as to their ways. Yah calls the shots you or I don't. We are to simply lovingly obey. Period. If our ways are not rooted in the Bible, then they need to be amended not the other way around.
We seem to have a Burger King mentality when it comes to serving Elohim. Rather than examine the word of God and the facts and make changes, we rather defend our practices and then say someone is "judging" when they shine a light. Let's wake up and grow up so that we can be the bride without spot or wrinkle!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 3:42:14 PM
|
|
|
Lapidoth
Posts: 3590
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
|
quote:
Almost everywhere in Europe, in both Roman and Teutonic [northern European] countries, the period around the winter solstice was celebrated with lights, to celebrate the increase of sunlight to come, and with greenery, usually evergreens, to represent the coming of spring and eternal cycles of growth. At the Saturnalia festival (December 17-24), Romans would present each other with sprigs of holly as gifts for the holiday. When Teutonic tribes began to usurp power from the Romans in Europe, they brought their Yule, or winter feast, traditions with them. The Yule log and wassailing (i.e., toasting each others’ health with alcoholic drinks) are two of these traditions.
The origin of the Christmas tree is usually traced to Saint Boniface, who in the 8th century persuaded the Teutonic tribes to abandon worship of the sacred oak of Odin, a remnant of Druidism, and to confer it instead on the fir, a more appropriate symbol of Jesus and eternal life. [Trees, however, have been used in pagan, idolatrous worship for many thousands of years. Numerous references to this can be found throughout the Old Testament (I Kings 14:23; II Kings 16:2-4; 17:10; II Chronicles 28:4; I Samuel 40:18-20; 57:5; 66:17; Jeremiah 2:20; 3:6,13; 10:1-5; Ezekiel 6:13).]
Thanks for the LINK.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 3:45:20 PM
|
|
|
Lapidoth
Posts: 3590
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
|
quote:
If our ways are not rooted in the Bible, then they need to be amended not the other way around.
This was the cause of confusion for me for a long time,
trying to make the Bible say what "they" said it said.
Now, that I can read the Bible for what it actually says,
there's no more confusion, and the falsehoods are easily perceived.
quote:
Rather than examine the word of God and the facts and make changes, we rather defend our practices and then say someone is "judging" when they shine a light.
I'm grateful for those who kept shedding light causing me
to reevaluate the true meanings of all we do.
Once I realized the "Feasts" are not the feasts of the Jews,
but the "Feasts of God," then I began to recognize the times
that were to be kept and that were kept even in the NT.
With the RT mindset, it was easy to read over and completely
miss what was actually taking place when reading the scriptures.
On a personal note, I now prefer to keep no celebrations at all
than to keep what the scriptures refer to as abominations.
Most of us just haven't had enough information exposed to our
thinking to understand beyond what we have inherited. Been there,
done that. The facts are always there, it's just a matter of whether
we want to receive it or not. And no need to shoot the messengers
carrying the pouch with the message. LOL.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 3:50:54 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
quote:
Do you tell Christian men to avoid women because some ancient religions used them as temple prostitutes and, therefore, all of them represent pagan ritualistic orgies...
I probably didn't answer because this is, with all do respect, totally outside of the discussion. I can't believe you even posted this. This is like apples and oranges and has no bearing whatsoever about the pagan customs of Christmas.
Nope, it's the very same sort of silliness. If you are sincere, then you'll have nothing to do with anything ever used by pagans for anything.
BTW, it's with all "due" respect.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 3:54:15 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
...We seem to have a Burger King mentality when it comes to serving Elohim...
Would it kill you to call Him "Daddy" once in a while? As a joint-heir with God the Son, we have that privilege. Our relationship with Him is one of the heart and based on relationship, not ritual and straight-jacket formality.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 3:55:27 PM
|
|
|
LBolt
Posts: 941
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
|
Amen!! My brother. I've looked at the arguments pro and con and those who choose to defend these customs don't have a leg to stand on. When scripture is pointed out, rather than changing our ways to fit scripture, we'll change scripture to fit our ways...totally irreverent and backward!
Or we dismiss as being "Old Testament I'm under the New Testament."
I did the same thing!! LOL! Could carry on a good argument to support what I thought was right...but thank Yah truth triumphed!! HalleluYAH!!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 4:01:43 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
...What I find interesting is those who fear choosing to observe biblical Holy Days....
Fear? You kid yourself. Maybe it makes you feel superior being a pretend Jew and claiming its fear that cause people to refuse the kind of bondage that Christ frees us from, I don't know. But that's akin to the foolish label "homo-phobic."
There is a huge difference between fear and revulsion. And it's revulsion I have for the notion of converting to a form of godliness sans the power to live in Christ's liberty.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 4:05:22 PM
|
|
|
Lapidoth
Posts: 3590
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
|
I was very annoyed at one time that they were taking
"Christ" out of X-mass, but then I also had to entertain
the thought that perhaps it was God Himself taking Christ
out of X-mass. Yet, our clutch to tradition probably wouldn't
allow us to entertain such a horrid thought.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 4:07:50 PM
|
|
|
LBolt
Posts: 941
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
|
My dear brother, your question was completely absurb and I'm trying to say this kindly. If the temple prostitute repents and accept Abba Yah and His Son into her life, she is a new creature, old things are passed away and; behold all things are become new. God will give her a new heart and a new spirit...and she should not want to prostitute herself anymore. If she got married to a born again man it would most certain be appropiate to engage in sexual intercourse. She is a NEW Creature!! You can't save a pagan practice by painting a "Christian face" on it and presenting it back to Him. This is an abomination!! We are not to serve Him with the same practices as a false religion!
Do you observe the rosary? Why or why not?
Do you pray to Mary and dead saints? Why or why not?
The answer would probably be because it is not rooted in the word of God and that He speaks against this.
God came to save people...not man-made pagan customs!
< Message edited by LBolt -- 9/4/2008 6:09:13 PM >
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 4:57:56 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
I was very annoyed at one time that they were taking
"Christ" out of X-mass, but then I also had to entertain
the thought that perhaps it was God Himself taking Christ
out of X-mass. Yet, our clutch to tradition probably wouldn't
allow us to entertain such a horrid thought.
Carl, know what I said about the difference between fear and revulsion? That's how I feal about entertaining the notion that God is offended when His redeemed celebrate the incarnation of His only Begotten, whether it's on Sunday, the half moon, March 15, or on December 25.
The "tutor" you find comforting is no longer required by God's mature adopted sons.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 5:17:08 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
...When one compromises with other "cultures" the best one can hope for is a secular holiday. In for a penny, in for a pound...
I'm curious why you haven't joined your brothers and shed yourself of your avatar. There were a few grown men that trembled & got rid of their avatars from yet another bondage brought on when someone "exposed" the origins of the word. It would have been humorous if it hadn't been so sad - and revealing.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 6:11:29 PM
|
|
|
LBolt
Posts: 941
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
The "tutor" you find comforting is no longer required by God's mature adopted sons.
!Que Lastima! 
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/4/2008 6:53:20 PM
|
|
|
Bluethread
Posts: 1440
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
...What I find interesting is those who fear choosing to observe biblical Holy Days....
Fear? You kid yourself. Maybe it makes you feel superior being a pretend Jew and claiming its fear that cause people to refuse the kind of bondage that Christ frees us from, I don't know. But that's akin to the foolish label "homo-phobic."
There is a huge difference between fear and revulsion. And it's revulsion I have for the notion of converting to a form of godliness sans the power to live in Christ's liberty.
Sorry, let me restate it in PC language. I wished to be kind.
What I find interesting is those who have revulsion for choosing to observe biblical Holy Days and sharing their joy in such activities thinking it could lead to "the kind of bondage that Christ frees us from". Yet at the same time, they find fault in those who choose to not recognize the obligitory secularized holidays.
I find no fault with those who choose to read the Scriptures regarding the birth of Yeshua(Jesus) on December 25th and do mitzvot(good deeds) for those from whom they expect no personal advantage at that time. Though I would not go so far as to call it bondage, to hold up a day that even the evangelicals now admit is arbitrary as a rallying point for the followers of Yeshua(Jesus) and expect that it not be corrupted is no better than spitting in the wind, in my opinion.
quote:
I'm curious why you haven't joined your brothers and shed yourself of your avatar. There were a few grown men that trembled & got rid of their avatars from yet another bondage brought on when someone "exposed" the origins of the word. It would have been humorous if it hadn't been so sad - and revealing.
I have not gotten rid of my picture because, I do not see it as a graven image which one might worship, regardless of what others call such a representation. On the contrary it is a representation of the attempt of my "brothers" to do things the Scriptures tell us to do in order remind ourselves to not violate Adonai's commands and be a light to the nations.
That said, let's try to stay on topic.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 9/4/2008 6:59:29 PM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/5/2008 2:20:52 AM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 6933
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
When I lived in IN, many people put up their Christmas decorations before the kids went trick or treating. They did it so early because they knew that bad weather could be on the way and it's hard to put up decorations on an icey roof. Now I'm in CA on a dead end street where very few people drive by. When should I put up my decorations? Should I bother with decorations since not that many people will see them? Is this a serious thread? A fun thread? or a seriously fun thread?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/5/2008 9:21:37 AM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
I have not gotten rid of my picture because, I do not see it as a graven image which one might worship, regardless of what others call such a representation. On the contrary it is a representation of the attempt of my "brothers" to do things the Scriptures tell us to do in order remind ourselves to not violate Adonai's commands and be a light to the nations.
That said, let's try to stay on topic.
It is the guts of the topic. The same rationalization for returning to a pre-Messiah Jewish lifestyle that eshews "man-made" customs and other less than Torah-friendly practices should dictate that you research avatars and in horror get rid of it.
In brief, an avatar in Hindu philosophy is the 'descent' or incarnation of a divine being (deva) or the supreme being (god) onto planet Earth. The logic goes from the Torah folk is that having an avatar is nothing less than invoking false deity, even if the avatar is Snoopy from the cartoon strip Peanuts. The origin and use of avatars is far more sinister than a day set aside to celebrate the Incarnation of God the Son.
As you so aptly put it, "In for a penny, in for a pound."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/5/2008 10:35:41 AM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3591
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Is this a serious thread? A fun thread? or a seriously fun thread?
It's supposed to be all of the above. Sometimes, however, it just gets too . . . uh . . . ??? . . . for me.
I love the people here, so it is hard for me to keep coming at them when most . . . well, you know. So I don't answer.
How about I answer you? When/should you put up your lights? I don't know!  I don't do Christmas! See? Now, I'm back in the same ol' circle!
Abiyah -- with my "avatar" completely intact.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/5/2008 11:01:07 AM
|
|
|
restinginHim
Posts: 432
Status: offline
|
The forest??? Where? Hee, hee... I am so thankful for the blood of the LAMB which binds us together as brothers and sisters. Yesterday, as i said i was going to start reading this thread from the beginning. Whew!  I read the first 5 pages; was that ever fun. I even took notes. Seriously.  And some people think Christians have no sense of...humor  . Then today i read the previous 18 hours or so and WOW i was on the edge of my seat!
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva Is this a serious thread? A fun thread? or a seriously fun thread?
All of the above?
quote:
Originial: Car2ner I always find it interesting that people keep bringing up the old meanings for the traditions and yet say very little over the bigger present issue (pun intended) commercialism, materialism and greed. When i used to celebrate Christmas, i was concerned about the commercialism. But in part it's because of the old meanings that i chose not to even celebrate Christmas. (I need to continue with my reading from page 6 because i'm sure a lot of scripture and Christmas history information has already been shared). In my understanding the man-made tradition of Christmas was the result of an unequally yoked merging of the 4th century Church with Roman pagan traditions that had roots dating back perhaps as far as the Nimrod mythological times.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you[a] are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “ I will dwell in them, And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.” Therefore “ Come out from among them, And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.” “ I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty.”
Happy writing! 
_____________________________
"As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love." John 15:9
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/5/2008 11:18:40 AM
|
|
|
LBolt
Posts: 941
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
|
Restinginhim, I love the way you post...God bless you!! I never try to offend but I manage to do just that! LOL! I wonder if the prophets in the Bible came off as abrasive or too confrontational? I like confrontation to a degree. I realize that most of us do not like truth because it tends to offend or cause people to think someone is being judgemental. I've haven't condemn nobody to hell...Truth presented against a commonly accepted idea will always cause uneasiness to the hearer.
I've constantly stated that there are a lot of well meaning, loving Christians who celebrate this holiday, some ignorant of the origins and obviously some not ignorate of it. These people are on Crosswalk, are our friends and our relatives. I love them and are mentored in certain areas by these same people. I support some of these fine people with money while at the same time vehemently disagree with some of their doctrines.
I said that to say that when it is all said and done, I still love and respect you all tremendously in the LORD and wants the best for your lives. Do not take what is posted personally and think I or anyone else is condemning you. Do not get bitter or offended...allow it rather to sharpen you in the things of God.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/5/2008 11:25:39 AM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: restinginHim
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you[a] are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “ I will dwell in them, And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.” Therefore “ Come out from among them, And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.” “ I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty.”
Yet you have an avatar which is, according to some, simply a yoking with Hindu philosophy that an avatar is the 'descent' or incarnation of a divine being (deva) or a supreme being (god) onto planet Earth.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/5/2008 11:39:11 AM
|
|
|
LBolt
Posts: 941
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Yet you have an avatar which is, according to some, simply a yoking with Hindu philosophy that an avatar is the 'descent' or incarnation of a divine being (deva) or a supreme being (god) onto planet Earth.
???!!!!  What does this have to do with Christmas?
Try starting a "Anti-avatar thread" I learn more and maybe toss mines. Thanks!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
