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zamdad -> RE: Homosexuality Article (10/6/2008 8:24:31 PM)
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ORIGINAL: stellaluna
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ORIGINAL: zamdad
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We are all born with a spiritual dna birth defect giving us a sin nature.
In other words, like criminals, we're all born with the capacity for wrong moral choices.
I totally agree with that.
And what's that called, I can't think of the word, where I child is murderous from the start? I think there are sins that...override any attempt at a moral choice?...from early childhood. I don't know why that is the case in some people and not in others.
So, are you wanting to resurrect the old born good or born bad debate? If some children are born murderous, is that going to be a significant number in the population? Not likely. If some children are born homosexual, wouldn't they be an equally small number? The gay rights lobby would have us believe that their numbers are higher. Even if there are sins that override moral choice, how many homosexuals have been raised in good homes, know what the Bible teaches about homosexuality, have an otherwise strong moral foundation, but engage in homosexual thoughts and behavior anyway?
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Solosoprano: I think of it this way (from the scientific perspective, at least). Schizophrenics having an episode sometimes don't even remember it...they don't remember shooting or stabbing people when they were going through that. Biochemical problems cause all manner of bad things to happen to people's thoughts and subsequent actions. I just think there are different severities of brain disorders. A chemically-induced depression isn't on the same level as catatonic schizo or something like that (in my mind). I don't think things people do are always choices they made...I believe someone can be so out of whack (no fault of their own) that they're no longer the same person. They can't choose. I haven't seen many people like that, but I don't work in the field. I've seen a few.... one woman went into an episode and stabbed a girl; another shot up a bus...and then there are cases like that of Phineas Gage that tell us so very much. I don't think people always have a choice; it honestly depends on what's going on inside that person.
As someone who works in the criminal justice system and has dealt with the worst of the worst, heard nearly every excuse in the book, I find that far too often when people claim not to have memory of something they did, they're lying. While working with sex offenders, numerous offenders claimed they had no recollection of what happened. But, the polygraph being a component of treatment eventually reveals they not only remember, they planned events to set up the offense.
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I do understand why some think everything is as simple as choosing. I believe that there are other parts to the equation though...either you believe it or you don't. I don't care to argue it anymore because it doesn't get anywhere. I just want for people to think through everything before they make a judgement.
Likewise, I would also like for people to think everything through. I really don't have anything against studying the biology of the matter. My concern, as someone who works with people in the system, is that attorney's get hold of research findings and use them to justify the actions of their client.
My experience from having lived a promiscuous lifestyle and from working with offenders is that there is a lot of thought that goes into the act of sex. It begins in the mind. It begins with fantasy and then progresses toward setting up fantasy to meet reality. The phisiolgical response, when a sex act is completed, seems to override moral judgment and, all too often people will pursue the pleasure of the flesh despite knowing what they're doing is morally wrong.
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And I do not believe that all things humans do are conscious choices made by that real person.
If you ever get to be an expert witness, defense attorneys are going to love you and pay you big bucks.
Smasiero, welcome to the forums and thank you for your input.
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