quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus.

As long as I am a believer that won't be possible. I cannot approve of something God calls evil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes

Do you approve of adultery? Most states have decriminalized adultery, but I don't hear much outrage about that. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you have to approve of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus.
When you see the devastation that adultery causes I don't see how anyone could not be for recriminalizing it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes

As society changed, we changed the laws regarding marriage. I'm sure there were conservatives who bemoaned the fact that these newfangled laws were changing traditional marriage, and that God had commanded that man be the head of his wife. But these laws didn't change any bibles or change any religions. They just changed the laws of society in order to better reflect the shared values of that society. In the future, society will continue to change laws in that fashion.


NAMBLA is condemned by GLAAD and other gay rights organizations. Regardless, gay marriage still requires adults to sign the marriage license (or minors with their parents' approval). Gay marriage has nothing to do with pedophilia.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

quote:

ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes

As society changed, we changed the laws regarding marriage. I'm sure there were conservatives who bemoaned the fact that these newfangled laws were changing traditional marriage, and that God had commanded that man be the head of his wife. But these laws didn't change any bibles or change any religions. They just changed the laws of society in order to better reflect the shared values of that society. In the future, society will continue to change laws in that fashion.


NAMBLA is condemned by GLAAD and other gay rights organizations. Regardless, gay marriage still requires adults to sign the marriage license (or minors with their parents' approval). Gay marriage has nothing to do with pedophilia.

Why so judgemental. On what basis do you judge a man and a boy being "in love"? Shouldn't the government protect the rights of these two to make life and death decisions for one another and inherit their joint belongings. Also, by what standard do you say they are incapable of raising a child? On what do you suggest we base our laws?

quote:

Marriage is a contract. Children, animals and inanimate objects cannot enter into contracts.

As it stands now, children can enter into marriage with their parents' permission.

quote:

Marriage is a contract. Children, animals and inanimate objects cannot enter into contracts.

As it stands now, children can enter into marriage with their parents' permission.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
Actually, many pedophiles argue that children do indeed have the wherewithal to justify such decisions, and of course, some people believe some animals have the same cognitive abilities to have a relationship with a human.

quote:

Bully for them, but their arguments have no force of law. When they start a ballot initiative to change the age of consent to 5 or to accept a hoof print as a valid signature for a contract, I'll be right alongside you to vote it down.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad
From the beginning of time marriage has been between one man and one woman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Bully for them, but their arguments have no force of law. When they start a ballot initiative to change the age of consent to 5 or to accept a hoof print as a valid signature for a contract, I'll be right alongside you to vote it down.

On what basis?

quote:

My subjective morality. It's all I've got, but it works pretty well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well then I am not sure why my arguments against gay marriage aren't equally valid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
Actually, many pedophiles argue that children do indeed have the wherewithal to justify such decisions, and of course, some people believe some animals have the same cognitive abilities to have a relationship with a human.

Bully for them, but their arguments have no force of law. When they start a ballot initiative to change the age of consent to 5 or to accept a hoof print as a valid signature for a contract, I'll be right alongside you to vote it down.

quote:

I already said "I have no problem with anyone voting their conscience on this issue."

You have your right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own facts or logic. The fact that pederasts want to legalize pederasty does not change the fact that children cannot sign a marriage license, and same-sex marriage will not affect this in any way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well then I am not sure why my arguments against gay marriage aren't equally valid.

I already said "I have no problem with anyone voting their conscience on this issue."

You have your right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own facts or logic. The fact that pederasts want to legalize pederasty does not change the fact that children cannot sign a marriage license, and same-sex marriage will not affect this in any way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well, homosexuals do not have the right to sign marriage licenses in most of the states of this union either; but that would be the point of this exercise; based on your logic, there is no reason either of these circumstances couldn't change.

quote:

That is quite true in our democracy. With the passage of an appropriate law or consitutional amendment, either could change. But changing one does not change the other. I reiterate: "The fact that pederasts want to legalize pederasty does not change the fact that children cannot sign a marriage license, and same-sex marriage will not affect this in any way."

Linking them makes about as much sense as saying that giving 18-year-olds the right to vote is tantamount to banning handguns. It would take two separate amendments to get that to happen, as it would take two separate legal acts to allow same-sex marriage and pederasty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

quote:

ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well then I am not sure why my arguments against gay marriage aren't equally valid.

I already said "I have no problem with anyone voting their conscience on this issue."

You have your right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own facts or logic. The fact that pederasts want to legalize pederasty does not change the fact that children cannot sign a marriage license, and same-sex marriage will not affect this in any way.

If the pederasts have their way it will?

quote:

Also, your last statement is not fact, nor a logical conclusion, but personal opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
To alter marriage so as to include persons of the same sex, or with one's siblings, or parents, or children, or other species would unnaturally, ahistorically, and immorally alter the the institution of marriage.

quote:

So what we are looking for here is a consistent basis for making these decisions; your view is that there isn't one; obviously, I disagree, and seek a society and law based on that consistency.

quote:

ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes

It is a logical conclusion, based on the actual state of legal same-sex marriage in California and elsewhere. Currently, "Party A" and "Party B" on a marriage license can be any gender; the court decision did nothing to change any other requirements for being able to sign a marriage license, e.g. being an adult.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad

quote:

Marriage is a contract. Children, animals and inanimate objects cannot enter into contracts.

As it stands now, children can enter into marriage with their parents' permission.

Mariiage is a covenenat, not a contract, but that's a seperate issue. As you know, law changes. From the beginning of time marriage has been between one man and one woman. Some supreme court justices have decided that these contracts can be revamped to allow the union of two men or two women. Poligamists are lining up to allow marriage to include multiple spouses. NAMBLA is waiting in the wings to legitimze sexual relationships between children and adults.

When some supreme court justice who thinks he/she is one day older than God and twice as smart uses a stroke of the pen to change the landscape of the culture is left open, we're open to anything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes

NAMBLA is condemned by GLAAD and other gay rights organizations. Regardless, gay marriage still requires adults to sign the marriage license (or minors with their parents' approval). Gay marriage has nothing to do with pedophilia.

quote:

essentialsaltes
This is obviously false. There have been and still are plenty of societies that recognize polygamous marriages.

quote:

The fact that pederasts want to legalize pederasty does not change the fact that children cannot sign a marriage license, and same-sex marriage will not affect this in any way.