|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/29/2005 2:01:22 PM
|
|
|
bhakthi
Posts: 12
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Homosexuality is not a new lifestyle that sprang up on modern times. It has its roots since the beginning of human civilization. The first book of the Holy Bible itself mentions about two great cities full of people who practiced homosexuality. Later in the second part of the Bible [Romans;1;19-32]It is explained why people are turned into homosexuals. This part states that homosexuality is a situation in which some people are fallen into as a result of not obeying God.The Bible says,” though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude.” Instead “they exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, animals, and reptiles. Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts to sexual impurity, so that their bodies were degraded among themselvesRomans;1:19-34.From this it becomes clear that homosexuality is not something biological or natural as some think but it is a curse from God that comes upon Godless people and their descendants .At the core homosexuality is of spiritual in nature.
Like all other abominable sins –idolatry, adultery, murder and so on homosexuality is contrary to God’s law.In the past there was no remedy for this sin.Only wrath and destruction followed.God rained fire and brimstone from heavin and destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah which practiced homosexuality. [See Genesis;19]But now there is hope because God is merciful and it is a time of jGod’s favor toward the mankind..He sent his Son as the Savior of the world to save sinners.The Bible says, “The wages of sin is death.”God loves sinners but hates sin.Lord Jesus said,” I did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”Luke;5:32 If anyone turns to him and repent God is willing to forgive and able to change that person inside out. ”If the Son sets you free you are free indeed.”John;8:36.
Homosexuality is not something that God approves. It is not a life style that sprang up in the modern times. It was there from the beginning. In the first book of the Bible itself we read about two cities which people practiced homosexuality. Later God sent judgment and destroyed those two cities.Later in the New Testament it is explained why people are turned into homosexuals. It says that homosexuality is a situation people are fallen into as a result of not obeying God.It says ,“although they knew God they neither glorified him as God nor gave him thanks to him” instead they changed the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like birds animals and reptiles and so on. Worshiping them.Therefore God also gave them over to shameful lusts”[Romans;1:19-32]From this it becomes clear that homosexuality is not something biological or natural as many think but it is spiritual at the core.It is a curse from God that comes on people and their descendants for not glorifying God.In the past only wrath and destruction followed for this depravity. But now it is a time of God’s favor so he is willing to forgive.God loves sinners and hates sin.Jesus said,”I did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”Luke;5:32 and He said, ,” The Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Luke;19:10. ” Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.” John;8:36 .Those who come to God through Jesus Christ he is able save and to change inside out.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2005 9:43:30 PM
|
|
|
TexasPatriot
Posts: 11
Joined: 7/7/2005
Status: offline
|
If you accept the triune God, then anything God said in the Old Testament is as good as coming from Jesus Christ.
As far as the comment about limiting opinions being a limit of free speech and such a limit being a base to accuse Christians of being , oh, "intolerant" or the like.... this is predominantly a Chrisitian forum. I come here to visit with others who share common ground with my beliefs. There are plenty of places to go and get limitless opinions and debate. The farther off track this forum gets, it loses part of its uniqueness and value.
Please let us have someplace to go without having to first debate the basics.
_____________________________
"For things, good Lord, that we pray for, give us the grace to labor for."
Thomas More, 16th century
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2005 6:37:21 AM
|
|
|
pthalomarie
Posts: 165
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: TexasPatriot
As far as the comment about limiting opinions being a limit of free speech and such a limit being a base to accuse Christians of being , oh, "intolerant" or the like.... this is predominantly a Chrisitian forum. I come here to visit with others who share common ground with my beliefs. There are plenty of places to go and get limitless opinions and debate. The farther off track this forum gets, it loses part of its uniqueness and value.
This forum makes no claim that you can expect to only encounter fellow Christians. The TOS asks that participants honor its doctrinal beliefs, not adhere to them. In other words, disagreement is allowed, provided it's polite.
What's more, in all the years I've been a part of its various incarnations, it's never been Christians-only. So I'm not sure why you thought it was ever any different.
There are plenty of online forums that restrict membership to conservative evangelicals only. Perhaps you'd be happier there.
quote:
Please let us have someplace to go without having to first debate the basics.
If you look at the top of the forums page, the very first folder is reserved for conservative Christians only. But I suspect that, no matter where online you go, you'll find people who disagree with you.
People tend to not see eye to eye on everything.
_____________________________
Have You shared the Gospel with someone today?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 11/27/2005 12:35:01 PM
|
|
|
MN_Fatherof4
Posts: 5
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
|
It is my belief that sin is sin, period. The Bible teaches that God does not categorize sins. The Bible also teaches that all sins can be forgiven - that nothing is beyond God's forgiveness. No sin is too great, too awful, or too prolific for God to forgive. My issue is this: so many Christians pick out a certain thing - like homosexuality and treat it like it is THE cardinal sin. I was always taught that the only sin greater than the rest is denying God. So in my thinking, if you consider homosexuality a sin - it is no greater a sin than adultery, gluttony, fornication, lying, etc.. Just my .02.
_____________________________
We owed a debt we couldn't pay...
He paid a debt he didn't owe.
|
|
|
|
|
Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 11/27/2005 8:04:46 PM
|
|
|
Quasiblogo
Posts: 367
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
|
I'm definitely opening up a book in the middle, so pardon any redundancy.
It appears that Paul's no-holds-barred approach to discussing homosexuality in Romans is our Father's way of pointing out that the (my own acronym) h-way is the ultimate corruption of divine order--an order that is meant to permeate every facet of human life.
The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit rules out the h-way as being the worst of sins. And, as I'm sure you've discussed, all sin corrupts--"There is no one righteous, no, not one."
All that having been said, we should take particular notice of how the h-way is shown to be the ultimate end of following the corrupt mind to its fullest capacity. Yes, murder, rape, incest, wanton abortion, lying--all these are bad. These show violence perpetrated on others, made in God's image. The h-way is violence against the image of God, with the twist that it is inflicted on one's own image. Self-destruction is as pathetic as suicide for the sake of it.
I have the privilege of having a pastor who openly invites h-folk to attend services and home groups. No, we don't let them use their presence as a platform for self-justification, yet they (and thank the Lord!) come, because they are at the end of their ropes and want to be ministered to without (further) condemnation. I say the latter, because the rebellious, deep down, know their condition.
Quaz
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 11/28/2005 8:05:47 AM
|
|
|
henny
Posts: 1197
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
|
I saw someone revived the perpetual gay thread, and I came across this in my daily blog rounds so I thought I'd post it:
quote:
Gay Arabs may face hormone injections
JIM KRANE
Associated Press
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - More than two dozen gay Arab men -- arrested at what police called a mass homosexual wedding -- could face government-ordered hormone treatments, five years in jail and a lashing, authorities said Saturday.
The Interior Ministry said police raided a hotel chalet this month and arrested 22 men from the Emirates as they celebrated the wedding ceremony.
The men are likely to be tried under Muslim law on charges related to adultery and prostitution, said Interior Ministry spokesman Issam Azouri.
Outward homosexual behavior is banned in the United Arab Emirates, and the wedding has alarmed leaders of the Muslim country as it grapples with an influx of Western culture.
rest here:
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/13266314.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp
I think we are all pretty clear on the positions of most on this forums over gay marriage, adoption, etc, but I am not sure if we have ever discussed the idea of whether it should be legal or not.
Should our government be able to prosecute homosexual behaviour? I don't think most on here would advocate the Arabian method of flogging or hormornal treatment, but should it have the right to treat it in some way?
_____________________________
Hell is other Christians.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 11/28/2005 8:52:05 AM
|
|
|
MN_Fatherof4
Posts: 5
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
|
I, for one, think that our government already has too much to say in our lives - and I have faith in my God to deal with each and every one of us and our sins. Suggesting that the government make sexual preference a legal matter would mean that they should make any other sin such as adultery, gluttony, lying, etc. illegal. I just think we should let God do his job.
_____________________________
We owed a debt we couldn't pay...
He paid a debt he didn't owe.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/2/2005 9:49:56 AM
|
|
|
dissipate
Posts: 2
Joined: 12/2/2005
Status: offline
|
i do not believe all homosexuals are sinners. i think there is only a problem when homosexuals choose to act on their homosexuality.
also, the word 'homosexuality' has 2 definitions:
1 : the quality or state of being homosexual
2 : erotic activity with another of the same sex
with regards to the first case, i do not believe homosexuality is a sin.
please be very careful when talking about homosexuals and homosexuality. if a homosexual regarded 'homosexuality' as the first definition, you would be implying to him/her that his/her state of being and entire life is a sin. the consequences of such a conversation might be disastrous.
also, i fully agree with with MN_Fatherof4 has said about sin being sin.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/2/2005 10:06:56 AM
|
|
|
AsForMeAndMyHouse
Posts: 2
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Georgia Peach says I do not believe that people are born an homosexual, I believe it is a choice. I do believe that homosexual tendencies/confusion of their sexuality can began to occure in children (ex: a boy wanting to dress and act like a girl at all times or vice versa) due to things that have occured in their enviroment. So I think it is a learned behavior whether intentionally taught or not. I believe like any other sin, this is something that can be overcome with prayer and God's help. I think homosexuality is a sin, but the temptation to me is not the sin. We are all tempted in one way or another and the sin is when we act on the temptation.
This about sums it up for me. Bottom line is that it is not a desirable trait to be attracted sexually to the same sex. God's original intent was and is for men and women to be together. That's why our bodies match, like a puzzle.
SinginBeauty, I sympathize with your brother's struggle. And agree with almost everything you say. But the Old Testament says that for a man to lie with a man or beast is an abomination. Which in my mind is something that is set opposite to God. I'm not saying that your brother stands in judgement necessarily, we are under a new covenant. It depends upon what he decides to do with the sacrifice that Jesus made for him. I'm sure you do what a good sister does, pray for him and love him.
Happy Days sez quote:
It is a sin to have gay sexual relations. That's that.
This statement concurs with what Dr. Laura Schlessinger believes and makes most sense to me.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/2/2005 10:10:02 AM
|
|
|
AsForMeAndMyHouse
Posts: 2
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
i do not believe all homosexuals are sinners. i think there is only a problem when homosexuals choose to act on their homosexuality.
also, the word 'homosexuality' has 2 definitions:
1 : the quality or state of being homosexual
2 : erotic activity with another of the same sex
with regards to the first case, i do not believe homosexuality is a sin.
please be very careful when talking about homosexuals and homosexuality. if a homosexual regarded 'homosexuality' as the first definition, you would be implying to him/her that his/her state of being and entire life is a sin. the consequences of such a conversation might be disastrous.
Well said Dissipate. I couldn't agree more. The distinction must be made. The same way the distinction must be made for adultery. Remarriage vs. cheatin' heart.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/2/2005 11:38:55 AM
|
|
|
roboima
Posts: 3
Joined: 12/2/2005
Status: offline
|
Hi all,
I know I probably shouldn't post here since although I consider myself a Christian in my personal belief system I cannot subscribe to many of the biblical interpretations that are required by this forum. I promise I won't post too often and I will actively try to follow the rules. Please don't expect very active participation in this forum from me though.
Anyway - I have been involved in many many discussions about this very topic involving both sides of the fence.
What Dissipate warns about below is very frequently exactly what is happening.
One person declaring that homosexuality is a sin is referring to actual or perceived behaviour.
The other person usually misinterprets this completely. The "gay activist" does not assume that someone may just walk up to them and talk about what they may or may not be doing in the bedroom. They assume that this comment is meant as a very rude and personal attack. Gays don't tend to see sex in the center of their identification with the term gay or homosexual. They see these labels as referring to whom they tend to be attracted to on an emotional, spiritual and personal level. A loving and committed relationship as they perceive it is not based on sex, but on understanding, emotional support and standing up for each other.
If you intend to actively engage gays in a discussion about the theological implications of how they perceive themselves and what they do, it is paramount to first understand their perception of the world around them. If you don't do this you will only create opposition and loose them for Christianity forever.
I will now go back to my role as the quiet listener in the background. Thanks for letting me share your forum with you.
quote:
ORIGINAL: dissipate
i do not believe all homosexuals are sinners. i think there is only a problem when homosexuals choose to act on their homosexuality.
also, the word 'homosexuality' has 2 definitions:
1 : the quality or state of being homosexual
2 : erotic activity with another of the same sex
with regards to the first case, i do not believe homosexuality is a sin.
please be very careful when talking about homosexuals and homosexuality. if a homosexual regarded 'homosexuality' as the first definition, you would be implying to him/her that his/her state of being and entire life is a sin. the consequences of such a conversation might be disastrous.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/2/2005 4:21:16 PM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 986
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: dissipate
i do not believe all homosexuals are sinners. i think there is only a problem when homosexuals choose to act on their homosexuality.
also, the word 'homosexuality' has 2 definitions:
1 : the quality or state of being homosexual
2 : erotic activity with another of the same sex
with regards to the first case, i do not believe homosexuality is a sin.
please be very careful when talking about homosexuals and homosexuality. if a homosexual regarded 'homosexuality' as the first definition, you would be implying to him/her that his/her state of being and entire life is a sin. the consequences of such a conversation might be disastrous.
also, i fully agree with with MN_Fatherof4 has said about sin being sin.
One question:
Did God make a distinction between practicing homosexuals and celibate homosexuals in scripture, or did He just say homosexuals?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/2/2005 4:48:51 PM
|
|
|
scmom2
Posts: 5
Joined: 11/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: MN_Fatherof4
It is my belief that sin is sin, period. The Bible teaches that God does not categorize sins. The Bible also teaches that all sins can be forgiven - that nothing is beyond God's forgiveness. No sin is too great, too awful, or too prolific for God to forgive. My issue is this: so many Christians pick out a certain thing - like homosexuality and treat it like it is THE cardinal sin. I was always taught that the only sin greater than the rest is denying God. So in my thinking, if you consider homosexuality a sin - it is no greater a sin than adultery, gluttony, fornication, lying, etc.. Just my .02.
Without promoting homosexuality, I have to say that I agree with you 100 %. Homosexuality is a very complicated and complex thing that runs much deeper than choice. No one will ever truly know the reasons for it, but the most common assumptions would be that it is a spirit, stems from abuse, born that way, and even a hormonal or chemical imbalance.
As a christian, it is our duty to love and spread the word of god. However, I think this message needs to be applied to all and not just one group.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/3/2005 10:08:04 AM
|
|
|
dissipate
Posts: 2
Joined: 12/2/2005
Status: offline
|
i just did a quick NIV search using biblegateway.com.. here are the results of the search:
1 Corinthians 6:9 (New International Version)
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
One question:
Did God make a distinction between practicing homosexuals and celibate homosexuals in scripture, or did He just say homosexuals?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/3/2005 4:58:42 PM
|
|
|
zamdad
Posts: 1668
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Without promoting homosexuality, I have to say that I agree with you 100 %. Homosexuality is a very complicated and complex thing that runs much deeper than choice. No one will ever truly know the reasons for it, but the most common assumptions would be that it is a spirit, stems from abuse, born that way, and even a hormonal or chemical imbalance.
I think the statement above is a good indicator of why the church has lost it's influence on the culture. It's easay to say that homosexuality could be caused by biological, genetic, environmental, hormonal, chemical or wiring factors, but to dismiss choice from the outset is an indicator of finding an easy answer to avoid the research. Research, like discipleship, take time and effort and we live in a microwave society that wants answers and solutions now. Because church goers have not developed a biblical worldview in examining cultural issues, we seem to accept the messages of the culture at face value.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/3/2005 8:10:55 PM
|
|
|
scmom2
Posts: 5
Joined: 11/11/2005
Status: offline
|
I think the statement above is a good indicator of why the church has lost it's influence on the culture. It's easay to say that homosexuality could be caused by biological, genetic, environmental, hormonal, chemical or wiring factors, but to dismiss choice from the outset is an indicator of finding an easy answer to avoid the research. Research, like discipleship, take time and effort and we live in a microwave society that wants answers and solutions now. Because church goers have not developed a biblical worldview in examining cultural issues, we seem to accept the messages of the culture at face value.
[/quote]
I don't need my church or my bible to make me realize that there is something terribly wrong with homosexuality. There is also something terribly wrong for us not to sit and ponder why or how someone turns out to be a homosexual.
If we as christians are to believe that God has a reason for everything. Do you not even question what the reason is for homosexuality?
I still believe that it may be choice in some instances, but there are other instances where it runs much deeper. And I believe that it can be something other than choice because of the masculine features of a woman that is gay and the feminine features of a man that is gay.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/4/2005 12:42:40 AM
|
|
|
zamdad
Posts: 1668
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
|
SCmom,
My reply to your post was more to demonstrate what so many Christians say in regard to complex issues such as homsexuality. I hope I did not offend you by using your post as an illustration.
quote:
If we as christians are to believe that God has a reason for everything. Do you not even question what the reason is for homosexuality?
Sin. Do we need to examine further? We can find reasons everywhere we look, it will still come back to our sinful nature.
quote:
I still believe that it may be choice in some instances, but there are other instances where it runs much deeper. And I believe that it can be something other than choice because of the masculine features of a woman that is gay and the feminine features of a man that is gay.
It still comes down to sin. To get into the guessing game of where the desire comes from or how deep it goes will keep us looking for the cause and a solution everywhere but Jesus Christ.
Yes, I have studied the issue and still continue to study it. I have lived a wild lifestyle that was filled with enough promsicuity to last two lifetimes. I have had passes made at me by homosexual men. I was groomed by one homosexual man. Thankfully, I did not go there when the opportunity was there. I have studied psychology, sociology, and many of the other ology's in college. I have worked in the corrections field for 15 years both in adult and juvenile institutions and in the community. Currently, I am emplyed in community corrections supervising a caseload of sex offenders. I co-facilitate sex offender treatment alongside a licensed psychologist. I have been exposed to some of the darkest parts of human depravity when it comes to sexual issues. There are so many factors that contribute to why people engage in the sexual behaviors they do, but it still comes down to choice. Sexual desire leads to thoughts about how satisfy the desire which leads to actions. Each step of the way one has a choice to stop the process. If I find myself having an erotic thought about a woman other than my wife, I have several choices. I can pursue the thought and proceed toward adultery. I can entertain thought and stick it away to play with it later. Or, I can capture the thought and take it out of my mind. There's three choices I just identified and I could probably find more.
When I was propositioned by men, I had a choice. I could have said yes. I chose to say no. I have heard many of the gay men I have worked with tell me that they cannot help the way they are. I have also had some pedophiles tell me they cannot help the way they are. I have had promiscuous heterosexual men tell me they cannot help the way they are. Thye cannot help it because they don't want to change who they are. No matter how miserable they might be, they are not willing to change that part of their self that brings them a few moments of pleasure. It's similar to the addict who continues to chase the rush of the first high and each time they get high it takes more and more to satisfy the itch.
I agree with you that we need to show love to those who profess tobe homosexual. We cannot be in your face rude. We have to meet them where they are and walk alongside them on the journey to righteousness. At the same time, we have to gird ourselves in God's word and in prayer so as not to be discouraged or seduced off God's path. Frankly, we don't do this well because we are not strong in Christ because we are too busy keeping up with the Jonses and feeding our spiritual stomach with mass media grabage so that we don't have time for God. Thus we are not effective in reaching the lost, and the lsot look at us like a bunch of hypocrits.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/4/2005 1:25:34 PM
|
|
|
scmom2
Posts: 5
Joined: 11/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Zamdad,
You didn't offend me sir, and I think you brought up some valid points. While I do not have any experience working with people who have issues such as these, I did have an uncle that was gay. He was molested by his father and grew up in a house with four girls. He claimed his indentity as a man was shattered by the abuse of his father, and by not having a male role in his life.
He practiced homosexuality until he became infected with HIV. It was then that he turned his life over to God and never practiced it again. He began to mold his life according to God, but still had a broken spirit because of what his father did to him when he was a young child.
I guess what I am trying to say is that we all think that homosexuality is just sexual, and it is not. Sure, they act upon their impulses just as hetorosexuals do, but they do it with the same sex.
Some are victims of abuse and grow up very confused by the things that happened to them as a child. Some never tell that secret until it has affect them as an adult and ultimately cost them their life.
I guess we need to love and guide them in the right direction vs beating them down because of their choices. Hopefully God will keep them stable enough to return to him one day and confess their sins.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/4/2005 7:59:07 PM
|
|
|
zamdad
Posts: 1668
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
He claimed his indentity as a man was shattered by the abuse of his father, and by not having a male role in his life.
His claims are very valid. However, when bad things happen to us, we stil have a choice in how we are going to respond. Our sin nature often guides us down the wrong path when we react to things. Our sin nature takes us even further when we go placing the blame for our misdeeds on the shoulders of another. Playing the blame game is almost like trying to make two wrongs be right.
quote:
I guess what I am trying to say is that we all think that homosexuality is just sexual, and it is not. Sure, they act upon their impulses just as hetorosexuals do, but they do it with the same sex.
You're right. We can act out (rebel) in so many different ways. Engaging in sex is just one of many ways we act out our anger for our hurts. Drug abuse, alcoholism, bulimia, gluttony, cutting, shoplifting, etc. There are so many ways we act out thinking we are easing the pain that only Jesus Christ can heal. If Jesus is going to bring about healing, we have to be the instruments of Christ to facilitate that healing.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/4/2005 11:45:20 PM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 986
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: dissipate
i just did a quick NIV search using biblegateway.com.. here are the results of the search:
1 Corinthians 6:9 (New International Version)
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
One question:
Did God make a distinction between practicing homosexuals and celibate homosexuals in scripture, or did He just say homosexuals?
Thank you. I believe you just rendered a good bit of the above discussion meaningless.
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/5/2005 12:07:48 AM
|
|
|
mthomas3
Posts: 2
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline
|
I recently read new research data which seems to suggest that the pheremones which naturally attract men and women to each other are different in gay men. In other words, gay men secrete the same type of pheremone which women secrete, and respond to the that same pheromone in other gay men. This would seem to suggest that in some cases, at least, there is a genetic base for gay attraction.
I heard another study, about 20 years ago now, that reported on a chemical which is missing in the brain of an alcoholic. It is called THIQ, which functions as the "stop" mechanism in most people, when they have consumed enough alcohol to make it dangerous. Alcoholics don't have that chemical, so their brain doesn't know when to say "stop." About 1//10 drinkers in America has that problem.
I also learned, within the last two years, that from 12-24% of the population has a personality disorder which causes them to be antisocial in one of several different ways.
We all know by now that bi-polar disease, schizophrenia, and "clinical depression" are also caused by chemical abnormalities in the brain, and can be treated by several potent chemical replacements, if taken regularly.
My point is, some behaviors which we reject are caused by the dna signature of gene construction at the point of conception, and those tendencies cannot be "repented" of. But they can be controlled. Alcoholism is a lifelong battle, so are all the other "abnormalities" I've mentioned here, including homosexual behaviors.
Yes, the Bible calls homosexuality a sin, but it is not the unpardonable sin. Faith in Jesus gets us into heaven, although people who continually live in sin (any sin) without seeking a change of life, are in jeopardy. But in all things, love and compassion are the order of the day, not condemnation. (Jesus didn't even condemn the woman caught in adultery; but he did tell her to not continue in that sin.) How do we respond to people who don't change their ways? Keep loving them. Only love brings people to God.
_____________________________
Marlin in PA
There is only one fold, and way to many different pastures.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/5/2005 4:06:58 PM
|
|
|
henny
Posts: 1197
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
If I find myself having an erotic thought about a woman other than my wife, I have several choices. I can pursue the thought and proceed toward adultery. I can entertain thought and stick it away to play with it later. Or, I can capture the thought and take it out of my mind. There's three choices I just identified and I could probably find more.
You say that you "find yourself" having these thoughts, which seems to suggest that impulse preceeds choice. Did you choose to have this thought before you had it, or do you simply choose how to act on it once the urge presents itself?
Going back even further, did you choose to have thoughts about women at all? Was there a point in your development when you actively chose between two equally appealing pathways of the desire for women and the desire for men, and decided to be attracted to women?
quote:
When I was propositioned by men, I had a choice. I could have said yes. I chose to say no. I have heard many of the gay men I have worked with tell me that they cannot help the way they are.
Yes you had a choice, but were you attracted sexually to the men who came onto you? Did you have same-sex desire for them? It hardly seems like a fair comparison if you didn't, as I would imagine most heterosexual men could easily choose not to have sex with another man if the oppurtunity offered itself simply because most heterosexual men lack same-sex desire. So a heterosexual saying to a homosexual "I can easily refuse same-sex intercourse, so why can't you?" is a bit like refusing stolen food on a full stomach, and then expecting it to be just as easy for a starving person to do the same.
I believe that action is always a choice, but I am not so convinced that desire is, which is why I would hesitate to characterize homosexuality as a "choice." Homosexual action is certainly a choice, but I'm not sure how anyone could make the case that the initial spark of same-sex attraction is itself chosen. It would seem that for this to be true, we would all have a point in our lives when sex with the same sex and sex with the opposite sex seemed equally appealing to us, and the only reason why we are straight or gay is that we decided on one and not the other. I don't think that is the case.
_____________________________
Hell is other Christians.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/5/2005 11:54:01 PM
|
|
|
zamdad
Posts: 1668
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
You say that you "find yourself" having these thoughts, which seems to suggest that impulse preceeds choice. Did you choose to have this thought before you had it, or do you simply choose how to act on it once the urge presents itself?
Thoughts hit out of the blue. It's my decision as to what to do with the thoughts. For many years, it was not only socailly acceptable to entertain the thoughts, but acting on them was encouraged. At least, in the social circles I ran in. Now, with my memory flooded with images of all the girls I've loved before, an image from the past could come to mind. Something about a woman I have contact with in the course of business could spark a thought. Over the past several years I have learned to capture those thoughts and give them to God.
quote:
Going back even further, did you choose to have thoughts about women at all? Was there a point in your development when you actively chose between two equally appealing pathways of the desire for women and the desire for men, and decided to be attracted to women?
To be quite honest, yes there was a period when I dabbled in homosexuality. Between the ages of 10 and 12. It was, what some psychologists would say, naive experimentation. Like most boys, this stage of development is filled with many questions. The school yard was filled with more information about sex and how things were uspposed to work than any of our parents had combined with all the doctors manuals. At that time of life, I remember being faced with a choice to as to whether I was going to be attracted to boys, girls, or both. I made the choice that I preferred girls and did not want anything to do with homosexual sex.
quote:
I believe that action is always a choice, but I am not so convinced that desire is, which is why I would hesitate to characterize homosexuality as a "choice."
So then, what do we tell people who have a desire for children? How about people who have a desire for animals? Or for dead people? How about people who have a sexual desire for feet? We have socially legitamized one of the many forms of sexual deviance. At what point do we collectively determine that the ever moving boundary line can move no further?
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/7/2005 6:55:34 AM
|
|
|
henny
Posts: 1197
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Thoughts hit out of the blue. It's my decision as to what to do with the thoughts. For many years, it was not only socailly acceptable to entertain the thoughts, but acting on them was encouraged. At least, in the social circles I ran in. Now, with my memory flooded with images of all the girls I've loved before, an image from the past could come to mind. Something about a woman I have contact with in the course of business could spark a thought. Over the past several years I have learned to capture those thoughts and give them to God.
If you can choose desire, why not just choose to stop being sexually attracted to any woman but your wife, like you initially chose to be attracted to women?
I'm actually not sure of your position. Do you think that homosexuals choose to be attracted to the same sex?
quote:
So then, what do we tell people who have a desire for children? "Don't have sex with Children." quote:
How about people who have a desire for animals? "Leave that cat alone!" quote:
Or for dead people? "Don't have sex with dead bodies."
quote:
How about people who have a sexual desire for feet? "Remove your socks and go to town!" I see nothing in the Bible against foot fetishists, so I would advise them to have sex with all the feet they want -as long as it is in a monogamous, heterosexual marriage, involving only husband, wife, 4 feet, 20 toes, and Jesus.
Anyways, my point is that inborn desire alone is not enough to legitimize an act. A drunk who kills a family in a car accident is still responsible for his actions, regardless of whether or not he was genetically predisposed to alchoholism. So I really don't see how it would affect how we look at Bestiality, pedophilia, or necrophilia if it were believed that homosexual desire was not chosen. Each act is evaluated in its own terms as right or wrong.
quote:
We have socially legitamized one of the many forms of sexual deviance. At what point do we collectively determine that the ever moving boundary line can move no further?
Slippery slope arguments do not work when it comes to morality. If a starving woman knocks on your door, the rightness or wrongness of letting her in and feeding her is contained within the act itself. Whether it is right to open the door for her or not has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that an Axe murderer might see this and later come knocking. You judge the women on her terms and the Axe murderer on his.
Even assuming slippery slopes work, however, homosexuality has nothing to do with bestiality or pedophilia and would set a precedent for neither. Socially/legally the reasons why we view bestiality and pedophilia as wrong revolve around ideas of consent, abuse, etc. Allowing homosexuality says nothing at all about the core reasons as to why we view pedophilia and bestiality as wrong. In fact, if you want to argue slippery slopes, it would make more sense to decry "The Patriot Act" as a "slippery slope" towards legalized pedophilia than it would homosexuality.
_____________________________
Hell is other Christians.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 12/8/2005 8:14:33 AM
|
|
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
