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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/20/2008 6:10:01 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
I think that there tends to be a number of reasons why Christians shy away from seriously considering, or looking at organic/biological reasons for sexual and even mental issues. From my own experience and research into such issues, the main reason seems to be that to do so is to say that God made a mistake.
God does not make mistakes, but because of sin, He must allow each of us to carry our own uinque crosses.
Another reason may be that to see organic/ biological reasons as the cause for sexual and mental issues tends to be too easy a way for people to explain and justify their behaviour, or the behaviour of others. It tends to be too easy of a way to ignore the influence of sin (generational, origional, and personal).
Sexual, and metal issues are difficult issues to explain and deal with, for a reason.
I understand it may seem like an easy out for some people. I don't think ALL people with SSA and mental illnesses have organic problems; I'm just saying that for some in these conditions, there is an organic problem. Now, maybe praying or the like may move God to correct the problem...or maybe it can be fixed through God through doctors. I suspect even when people have hormonal problems and don't WANT to have SSA, they don't know they have problems.
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/20/2008 8:17:26 PM
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henny
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
But, because homosexual activists seeking to normalize their lifestyle have coined the phrase SSA, we have been conditioned to think along the same lines, that it has to do with sexuality.
I never hear "SSA" used anywhere except for this forum. Gay activists usually speak of things in terms of "Sexual orientation" -a concept which this forum disavows.
The difference is this:
Sexual orientation: One's orientation in terms of desire. With "sexual orientation" desire is contingent upon one's orientation, and one's desires are the effect of a pre-molded (be it biologically, socially, or some combination of the two) orientation.
SSA: This merely refers to desires for the same sex and nothing more, it does not go beyond this to speculate on whether these desires are fixed or not. Evangelical Christians prefer this term because it loans itself more to the idea of Biblical temptation, in that "same sex desires" seem to come more from something external to the individual than from something internal (and thus they can be "overcome"). So in short, one falls into homosexuality by giving into SSA temptations, in the same way anyone falls into sin through temptation.
Obviously both terms are highly political, and it's arguable that both pro and anti gay groups will pick one or the other based mostly upon how well it fits their political ideologies rather than any other criteria.
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Hell is other Christians.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/20/2008 8:21:41 PM
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henny
Posts: 1169
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano2
I understand it may seem like an easy out for some people. I don't think ALL people with SSA and mental illnesses have organic problems; I'm just saying that for some in these conditions, there is an organic problem. Now, maybe praying or the like may move God to correct the problem...or maybe it can be fixed through God through doctors. I suspect even when people have hormonal problems and don't WANT to have SSA, they don't know they have problems.
This is some evidence that homosexuality, as well as other conditions like hermaphroditism, and even other anatomical aspects of our sexual make-up (i.e. genital size, genital disorders, etc) stems from hormonal conditions in the mother's womb.
However, this usually has nothing to do with post natal deficiency in any one hormone. And by this I mean, simply giving gay men more testosterone will not turn them straight (it'll just motivate them to have lots more gay sex). There's been studies done on this, though, and in most cases I don't think low testosterone levels correlated with homosexuality.
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Hell is other Christians.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/20/2008 8:37:09 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano2
I understand it may seem like an easy out for some people. I don't think ALL people with SSA and mental illnesses have organic problems; I'm just saying that for some in these conditions, there is an organic problem. Now, maybe praying or the like may move God to correct the problem...or maybe it can be fixed through God through doctors. I suspect even when people have hormonal problems and don't WANT to have SSA, they don't know they have problems.
This is some evidence that homosexuality, as well as other conditions like hermaphroditism, and even other anatomical aspects of our sexual make-up (i.e. genital size, genital disorders, etc) stems from hormonal conditions in the mother's womb.
However, this usually has nothing to do with post natal deficiency in any one hormone. And by this I mean, simply giving gay men more testosterone will not turn them straight (it'll just motivate them to have lots more gay sex). There's been studies done on this, though, and in most cases I don't think low testosterone levels correlated with homosexuality.
Maybe not. I just know I've seen hormonal problems contribute to SSA and it's been rectified by fixing that imbalance.
I know in utero conditions like androgen insensitivity can leave someone with a female body, yet they have testes, etc. Androgen insensitivity is, by definition, a problem with hormone recognition in utero. The problem for some of these people is that they are female but have male genitalia (or vice versa).
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/20/2008 8:47:23 PM
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jennleigh
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quote:
I really think it cheapens and misconstrues the issue when people say things like "we all have our weaknesses, 'SSA' is no different" and then go on to recount how in their youth they slept around or were tempted by pornography. Which is really absurd as it's not a comparison at all, given that once you have sown your wild oats you always have the option to repent, settle down, and find romantic love, companionship, and a God sanctioned sexual outlet in a family. For the "SSA" sufferer who is never able to rid him/her self of their desires and become attracted to the opposite sex (for whatever reason), this happy ending is completely denied them (or at least on earth anyway). All they have really is a life of solitude with the hope of going to heaven once they finally die.
It also complicates things given that evangelical forms of Christianity usually don't have an outlet to suit this sort of life. With Catholicism you could at least join the priesthood, or become a nun, live a celibate life, yet still be highly regarded in the church community. But with Evangelicals you're going to be looked at weird if you are a single man or woman who doesn't date or shows in interest in it. Even worse, if people find out, perhaps they might publicly give the whole "love the sinner hate the sin" spiel, but I gaurantee you most will look down on you for some reason (i.e. obviously, if he/she still has these attractions they aren't repenting enough or trying hard enough), keep their children away from you (as if gays are all child molesters), and just generally treat you differently.
It's completely fine to ask this of people, just as it's completely fine for you to ask it of your son. But before anyone condemns them for being weak in the face of sin, I think everyone first must realize what exactly is being asked of them and then ask themselves if they could do the same.
I absolutely agree with you. I may have sounded earlier like I feel this is the easy choice, or the only choice, but the truth is, I have absolutely no idea what those facing SSA or homosexuality are supposed to do. I believe that biblically, this is what we are theoretically supposed to do, but there is a big difference between theoretically and actually. I guess what I meant to say is that although it would be a lot to ask of someone, it wouldn't be the first time that God has asked a lot of someone, or that what He asked was fair. I agree wholeheartedly with your statement regarding sowing wild oats. Once I sowed my oats and settled down, I was able to find someone I was attracted to, get married and continue indulging in sexual relations, only this time with one person and within marriage, which made it "ok" to do. This is not even close to what homosexuals and SSA's deal with. And you are right, I have no idea if I would be able to live without love, or children of my own, or family. I would say off the cuff that I would not.
And you are right, we do look at purposely single men and women as weird within the Christian community: just a few months ago, we were given a handout at church stating that they needed youth workers for Sunday School, but that if you were a single man, you could not teach a class! I discussed how unfair this was with my husband. I suppose my pastor feels that if you have a wife then you can't possibly be tempted by young children. Besides all of that, I have known several gay men (and women) who were just as married and had just as many kids as I do. I don't see where that has anything to do with it, but as a whole, the Christian community seems to feel "safer" if gay men and women would just get married (to someone of the opposite sex, of course) and have a few kids.
I definitely don't have all the answers to dealing with this; and some days I feel like I don't have a single answer to give my son when he wants to discuss it. I don't know why some men or women seem to be able to "get rid" of their SSA while others are forced to continue living with it, and I don't know what my son is supposed to do if he should find that he is of the latter group. All I can do is show him the scriptures, tell him what I feel God has shown me regarding the status of homosexuality as a sin, and then pray, pray, pray!
Ultimately, it is up to my son to work this out between him and God. As long as he is a child, I can forbid him to engage in homosexual behavior, I can keep him away from people and environments and clothing (and the list goes on. . and on) that I feel might influence him, and I can basically sit on top of him until he turns 18 and legally can move out on his own. BUT, not one of those things are necessarily going to keep him from being a homosexual or keep him from experiencing SSA. In fact, they actually might cause him to run to that lifestyle out of rebellion which would FURTHER complicate the issue, in my opinion. I cannot live my son's salvation for him. I have not ever been gay, nor do I even begin to comprehend what he must be going through. SO.....
I can pray. That's what I can do. I can pray, and I can ask God for His guidance, and for His grace and for His mercy. I can ask Him for His help. Which is what I do on a daily basis. In the end, I believe this is something only HE can change.
I think we should always refrain from condemning anyone in the face of being weak against any sin. But for the grace of God. . .
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/20/2008 9:34:50 PM
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bean23
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
I think the two main reasons are biological reasons and confusion. I know plenty of people that suddenly turn gay for a few months then they're over it. I guess either they were just experimenting or confused. I asked about organic/biological reasons just because it seems like some Christians don't believe in that.
I'm actually studying this in a psychology course in school.
Scientists have found that most identical twins (with identical DNA) are either both straight or both gay, though their are a few twins that have one gay and one straight. So there is definitely a genetic trait, but there is also a psychological trait. Additionally, scientists have found differences in the brains of gay men compared to straight men. So it is partly nature and partly nurture.
It raises an interesting theological question. Are sociopaths responsible for their sins even though they were not born with a moral compass or had it taken away due to the way they were nurtured?
That's only an interesting topic if you believe that homosexuality is sinful. Personally, I think this may be one instance where the Bible had too many cooks in the kitchen. It just doesn't seem logical to me as every other sin in the Bible has obvious negative repercussions. I really doubt God minds what type of bits people have so long as they love one another.
I do not say this as advocacy, but instead to say that that's where I am now. I pray on this often, as I realize that I'm questioning the validity of the Bible and that I may get in trouble with God for that someday. However, it doesn't make sense to me. I pray that he do something to give me understanding of how such a loving, wonderful God would create a rule that seems so silly and antique. I pray that if I'm right that he will do something to make Christians see the truth and stop persecuting Christians as sinners. I think of God as the New Testament God of love, forgiveness, and hope. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. . . maybe this is because the people that tend to be hateful towards homosexuals call themselves Christians and I dislike those people so much for being hateful in Jesus' name. It is so false and wicked.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/20/2008 10:50:36 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bean23
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
I think the two main reasons are biological reasons and confusion. I know plenty of people that suddenly turn gay for a few months then they're over it. I guess either they were just experimenting or confused. I asked about organic/biological reasons just because it seems like some Christians don't believe in that.
I'm actually studying this in a psychology course in school.
Scientists have found that most identical twins (with identical DNA) are either both straight or both gay, though their are a few twins that have one gay and one straight. So there is definitely a genetic trait, but there is also a psychological trait. Additionally, scientists have found differences in the brains of gay men compared to straight men. So it is partly nature and partly nurture.
It raises an interesting theological question. Are sociopaths responsible for their sins even though they were not born with a moral compass or had it taken away due to the way they were nurtured?
That's only an interesting topic if you believe that homosexuality is sinful. Personally, I think this may be one instance where the Bible had too many cooks in the kitchen. It just doesn't seem logical to me as every other sin in the Bible has obvious negative repercussions. I really doubt God minds what type of bits people have so long as they love one another.
I do not say this as advocacy, but instead to say that that's where I am now. I pray on this often, as I realize that I'm questioning the validity of the Bible and that I may get in trouble with God for that someday. However, it doesn't make sense to me. I pray that he do something to give me understanding of how such a loving, wonderful God would create a rule that seems so silly and antique. I pray that if I'm right that he will do something to make Christians see the truth and stop persecuting Christians as sinners. I think of God as the New Testament God of love, forgiveness, and hope. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. . . maybe this is because the people that tend to be hateful towards homosexuals call themselves Christians and I dislike those people so much for being hateful in Jesus' name. It is so false and wicked.
Even if you eliminate all the Scriptures against homosexuality (and I shudder at the thought that you are doing that), how do you get past the ones that speak against lust, fornication and sexual sin?
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. - Ephesians 5
18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's. - I Corinthians 6
13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. - Romans 13
So, are you going to eliminate those too? Because engaging in homosexual activity usually involves the things mentioned in those verses, does it not? You see, that's the danger of being selective in what you choose to believe and not believe in the Bible...you'll start to eliminate so much, you won't believe any of it.
You are embarking on an extremely dangerous path.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/20/2008 11:16:59 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
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From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bean23
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
I think the two main reasons are biological reasons and confusion. I know plenty of people that suddenly turn gay for a few months then they're over it. I guess either they were just experimenting or confused. I asked about organic/biological reasons just because it seems like some Christians don't believe in that.
I'm actually studying this in a psychology course in school.
Scientists have found that most identical twins (with identical DNA) are either both straight or both gay, though their are a few twins that have one gay and one straight. So there is definitely a genetic trait, but there is also a psychological trait. Additionally, scientists have found differences in the brains of gay men compared to straight men. So it is partly nature and partly nurture.
It raises an interesting theological question. Are sociopaths responsible for their sins even though they were not born with a moral compass or had it taken away due to the way they were nurtured?
That's only an interesting topic if you believe that homosexuality is sinful. Personally, I think this may be one instance where the Bible had too many cooks in the kitchen. It just doesn't seem logical to me as every other sin in the Bible has obvious negative repercussions. I really doubt God minds what type of bits people have so long as they love one another.
I do not say this as advocacy, but instead to say that that's where I am now. I pray on this often, as I realize that I'm questioning the validity of the Bible and that I may get in trouble with God for that someday. However, it doesn't make sense to me. I pray that he do something to give me understanding of how such a loving, wonderful God would create a rule that seems so silly and antique. I pray that if I'm right that he will do something to make Christians see the truth and stop persecuting Christians as sinners. I think of God as the New Testament God of love, forgiveness, and hope. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. . . maybe this is because the people that tend to be hateful towards homosexuals call themselves Christians and I dislike those people so much for being hateful in Jesus' name. It is so false and wicked.
I've taken both psychology and biological perspectives on mental illness while in college. I'm finishing up the latter on Tuesday actually. We talked a little about biology in phsych, but in biology we just talked about what imbalance/receptors etc. were gone awry in whatever illness. Watched a few case studies and went over symptoms, etc. I never knew homosexuality used to be in the DSM though.
I remember we were watching a video about severe mania (a case study); the man had absolutely gone crazy and said the voices told him to kill his wife. Then he went and hid out in his church for six weeks undetected. He was manic, but lithium treatments turned him around. I do remember the commentator repeatedly saying...does free will really exist (I think he meant in the context of these organic illnesses). I remember my professor asking that, just as a rhetorical question. Someone who's having a manic episode will do what's right in their brain, but what's right in their brain and what's right right are not the same thing.
I guess it's kind of like that with me for SSA sometimes. I know some people are just confused, but I do believe many people with SSA might have some kind of problem inherently and do not know it. It happens.
I don't think I'm speaking of lust per se. I think it's possible for a man to be attracted to a woman without lust. I believe the same for SSA.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 12:03:29 AM
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bean23
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Kat_D - I just find it difficult to believe that our loving God would have a problem with anything that isn't harmful. If you look at every other sin in the Bible, someone is being hurt by the sin. This is the only sin in the Bible (that we haven't discarded like mixing the seed in our clothing and not eating pork), that doesn't make any sense.
Obviously, promiscuity and adultery are likely to cause hurt and should be avoided. I think it is probably a poor reflection on your view of homosexuals that you necessarily tie these in with homosexuality.
Also, this is something I pray about. I don't believe that God minds questions, and I'm certainly looking for an answer that will somehow answer how the good and loving God I believe in would deny people who love each other sex based on their genitals. It seems both preposterous and tragic to me.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 12:19:48 AM
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Kath
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bean23
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 12:33:59 AM
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designed
Posts: 225
Joined: 12/21/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
bean23-
Personally, I think this may be one instance where the Bible had too many cooks in the kitchen. It just doesn't seem logical to me...
I really doubt God minds....
I'm questioning the validity of the Bible ....
....it doesn't make sense to me.
It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.
Proverbs 16:25
There is a way which seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.
1 Corinthians 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS";
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:35
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 11:58:53 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1749
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RedcoatMello
quote:
This is really the area I'm confused with, because I don't feel any desire for sexual gratification, or any sexual attraction at all. But I have always wanted to go on a date with another woman. So, I have been confused whether this is just as wrong as SSA supposedly is.
The term "date" under modern definitions implies romantic interest which is often taken as a desire for sex. If you have no sexual desire but you want to spend time with other women, what's wrong with simply hanging out and being friends?
quote:
solosoparano,
I know there are some "gay" men walking around whose hormones are like those of women. I don't read up much on lesbians, but I do know some of them have an excess of testosterone, making them similar to men on the inside.
How do any of us know if these people are truly experiencing hormonal imbalances? it could very well be that they are putting on an act, letting others see them as they want to be seen. As I said before, the world has developed all kinds of theories and philosophies so we can live withourselves in our sin.
[1Co 1:20] So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world's brilliant debaters? God has made them all look foolish and has shown their wisdom to be useless nonsense. [21] Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never find him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save all who believe. [22] God's way seems foolish to the Jews because they want a sign from heaven to prove it is true. And it is foolish to the Greeks because they believe only what agrees with their own wisdom.
In the end, all of our theories and worldly wisdom will be revealed to have been foolishness. God put His standard in place in the beginning and since the fall we have been trying to cover our tracks while following our own path.
quote:
Henny
I never hear "SSA" used anywhere except for this forum. Gay activists usually speak of things in terms of "Sexual orientation" -a concept which this forum disavows.
The difference is this:
Sexual orientation: One's orientation in terms of desire. With "sexual orientation" desire is contingent upon one's orientation, and one's desires are the effect of a pre-molded (be it biologically, socially, or some combination of the two) orientation.
SSA: This merely refers to desires for the same sex and nothing more, it does not go beyond this to speculate on whether these desires are fixed or not. Evangelical Christians prefer this term because it loans itself more to the idea of Biblical temptation, in that "same sex desires" seem to come more from something external to the individual than from something internal (and thus they can be "overcome"). So in short, one falls into homosexuality by giving into SSA temptations, in the same way anyone falls into sin through temptation.
Obviously both terms are highly political, and it's arguable that both pro and anti gay groups will pick one or the other based mostly upon how well it fits their political ideologies rather than any other criteria.
I have taken issue with the term sexual orientation as well. To me, it implies choice. To orient yourself means to choose a direction. I am not familiar if SSA is a term used mostly by Christians as i live in a rural area where there are not a lot of openly homosexual people. When I've heard the term used most is in the media.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 12:01:26 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
If you look at every other sin in the Bible, someone is being hurt by the sin.
If your point is that homosexuality does not hurt anyone, I beg to differ. I can't count the number of families that I've seen who have been devastated by it. Perhaps if you sat where I sit (in a biblical counselor's chair) you might have a better understanding of that. This sin, of all sins, causes a monumental amount of hurt, separation, confusion, heartache, and degradation. Let's get real here!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 12:14:33 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
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quote:
How do any of us know if these people are truly experiencing hormonal imbalances? it could very well be that they are putting on an act, letting others see them as they want to be seen. As I said before, the world has developed all kinds of theories and philosophies so we can live withourselves in our sin.
[1Co 1:20] So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world's brilliant debaters? God has made them all look foolish and has shown their wisdom to be useless nonsense. [21] Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never find him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save all who believe. [22] God's way seems foolish to the Jews because they want a sign from heaven to prove it is true. And it is foolish to the Greeks because they believe only what agrees with their own wisdom.
In the end, all of our theories and worldly wisdom will be revealed to have been foolishness. God put His standard in place in the beginning and since the fall we have been trying to cover our tracks while following our own path.
I rather think Christians just don't want to admit that some people have a bodily problem that contributes to their SSA. The only way to know which ones do and which do not is to give them the correct testing. My point is, we don't know which are which (unless they've told or proven it to us for some reason). Just like a schizo can be termed "crazy" and be in an instituion, but be "fixed" with treatments for the dopamine excess...SSA is sometimes a biolgical issue that can be alleviated. It's not always making up excuses for sin...although SSA is not a sin to me. Homosexuality is.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 12:50:32 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
I rather think Christians just don't want to admit that some people have a bodily problem that contributes to their SSA.
Well, I don't know if that's true or not, but even if it were true, the SSA/Homosexual is still biblically prohibited from taking it to a sexual or lustful level.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 1:22:30 PM
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solo_soprano22
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If that is the definition of lustful to you, then I'd be talking about lust.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 1:26:36 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
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I am just a dab confused about where the thread is Solo.
I really don't know if you are speaking about good friends or sexual attractions.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 1:29:50 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I am just a dab confused about where the thread is Solo.
I really don't know if you are speaking about good friends or sexual attractions.
Thanks
RC
Sexual attractions.
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 1:44:33 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
I rather think Christians just don't want to admit that some people have a bodily problem that contributes to their SSA. The only way to know which ones do and which do not is to give them the correct testing. My point is, we don't know which are which (unless they've told or proven it to us for some reason). Just like a schizo can be termed "crazy" and be in an instituion, but be "fixed" with treatments for the dopamine excess...SSA is sometimes a biolgical issue that can be alleviated. It's not always making up excuses for sin...although SSA is not a sin to me. Homosexuality is.
Doesn't matter what contributes to SSA, it is still a temptation and can be dealt with properly by Christians who believe the Word.
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
and when dealt with in the proper God given manner Believers can live the life we are called to live;
(Rom 12:1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
(Rom 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 1:46:32 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3609
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From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bean23
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
I think the two main reasons are biological reasons and confusion. I know plenty of people that suddenly turn gay for a few months then they're over it. I guess either they were just experimenting or confused. I asked about organic/biological reasons just because it seems like some Christians don't believe in that.
I'm actually studying this in a psychology course in school.
Scientists have found that most identical twins (with identical DNA) are either both straight or both gay, though their are a few twins that have one gay and one straight. So there is definitely a genetic trait, but there is also a psychological trait.
Case studies where identical twins raised if different families has not shown conclusive evidence of this. However, these studies are too small to provide conclusive evidence because this is a fairly rare situation. The evidence is not as strong as most who present it believe it to be.
quote:
Additionally, scientists have found differences in the brains of gay men compared to straight men. So it is partly nature and partly nurture.
There are many difficulties with this study. 1) No controls were put in place to identify whether the changes in brain chemistry (this is what the study measured) were the cause of homosexual behavior or the result of homosexual behavior, even though it has been long know that behavioral changes can effect the brain. Outside of the homosexual debate, psychologists still vigorously debate the "chicken and egg" aspect to behavioral / brain chemistry issue; however, due to political correctness this is often avoided when it comes up in this one narrow area.
It is true that in a very small number of cases there really is a clear genetic / biological problem, for instance when there is a physical genetic caused gender identity abnormality, and that does raise some tough theological question, but too often the exception is presented as the rule, and so far real research has shown quite the opposite. Additionally, many of the studies that have attempted to link the majority of homosexual behavior with a genetic / biological cause have clear connections with those who are involved in the homosexual agenda, and the biases of these researches should be considered (the brain study referenced earlier is one such study), but because it is not PC to question bias in these cases, it is often ignored. That is kind of like accepting, without question, the studies the tobacco industry supplies that show that smoking doesn't have any health risks.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 1:53:23 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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I think a problem is that I don't consider natural attraction to the opposite sex to be inherently lustful.
If someone with SSA has an organic problem that makes them inwardly basically have the "attractions" of the opposite sex, and if God knows that this person may have male genitalia but is really a woman in there (for example), which is right and which is wrong?
If they have XX chromosomes and have estrogen levels that are female, but they have male genitalia (but do not have XY chromosomes and do not have testosterone), do they go "natural" and desire men like women do, or do they have to desire women because of their outward body? I'm not talking about homosexuality. I'm talking about attraction.
I rather think God knows what someone is on the inside and goes by that. I think man can only really see what's on the outside (unless, like I said, people are tested) and judges by that.
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 1:57:16 PM
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