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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/30/2008 10:17:47 PM
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GeorgiaNerd
Posts: 206
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From: UGA... RIP UGA VI
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quote:
1. How many clinical trials have you researched and conducted yourself.
2. How much counselling have you done with SSA people.
3. How many books do you own and have read about the homosexual way of life.
4. How many conferences have you organised that discuss the issues we are confronted with in regards to homosexuality.
5. How many degrees do you have relating to the study of homosexuality.
6. How many support groups have you facilitated for SSA people.
7. How many homosexual venues have you visited to observe their lifestyle and over what period of time.
8. How much reading have you done of media published by homosexual organisations.
9. How many presentations have you made to government about the issues surrounding homosexuality.
10. How many annual homosexual conferences have you attended.
11. How many debates have you had with the homosexual movement at university.
12. How many conferences have you spoken at about the subject of homosexuality.
Care to answer those questions yourself before judging those of us who disagree with you? Some of those questions can only be fulfilled by those whose opinion is the same as yours anyways. I have spoken at GLBTQAetc. conferences, am in several GLBTQAetc. organizations of varying viewpoints, have read many studies on GLBTQAetc. issues of varying viewpoints, have many GLBTQAetc. freinds and aquantances, go to gay bars on a regular basis, and speak to University classes about GLBTQAetc. issues, and finally also have a form of SSA (non-sexual SSA). I may not be as "qualified" as you, but I'm just a lowly undergrad music student.
What I have found is that homosexuals are just as diverse as heterosexuals. I have read numerous scientific studies that disagree with your opinions on causation and curability, and some that agree with it. The stereotypes just don't work for anyone. Of course the fact that you work in counseling homosexual individuals will bias your "data" on specific issues such as happiness. Also, I stated in a previous post that causation of homosexuality cannot be inferred from your research, which is observational in nature.
I really do believe that this issue is complicated, and that we don't have all of the answers yet. In science, "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer. Hopefully Henny will come and answer the questions more eloquently.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/31/2008 12:33:27 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1668
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quote:
What I have found is that homosexuals are just as diverse as heterosexuals.
IN my short lifetime, 44 years, homosexuality has gone from a diagnosable mental illness to a socially acceptable alternative lifestyle. Since when do we ahve to make a distinction between homosexual and heterosexual? How have we come to this point?
quote:
I really do believe that this issue is complicated, and that we don't have all of the answers yet.
Is it really that complicated? Is it complicated because scripture speaks so clearly about homosexuality as well as other forms of sexual deviance? Or, is it complicated because of cultural messages? We have all these researchers trying to find the genesis for the stupid things we do to ourselves and others and yet the Bible speaks to all these issues. All too often it seems that we'd rather listen to those who proclaim to be experts instead of looking to the Word of God that has been around long than any of the experts. Sometimes it seems we like to believe we are one day older than God and twice as smart.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/31/2008 4:26:40 AM
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henny
Posts: 1197
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From: MN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marksman
quote:
Plus 54% is a pretty paultry number, that means 46% of Christian teens have had sex. And Christian teens are supposed to be the Godly ones. If they can only manage an abstenance rate of 54%, then I can only imagine what it is amongst others.
Again you are refusing to accept the obvious. The majority do not have sex before marriage.
Actually, you are making an unfounded assertion from the data present. You said that the study concluded that 54% of teens had not had sex yet at the time of the survey. You can't conclude from this, however, that these same teens will wait to have sex until they are married.
As the two studies I linked to (and which you ignored) show, the vast majority of people will have sex before they are married.
_____________________________
Hell is other Christians.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/31/2008 2:33:51 PM
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Leon_Figg3
Posts: 480
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quote:
Let's cut to the chase, shall we? None of this matters with respect to the rightness or wrongness of homosexuality. The bible says that it is wrong. The only thing we need to concentrate on is the truth and sharing with love and compassion. Let's avoid all excuses and antagonisms and pursue the path God gave us to follow. Comparing hetero- and homo- immoralities does not address the solution. All immoralities undermine Christianity.
Who's truth?
As reflected in various forums and threads in Crosswalk, people, let alone Christians, tend to have a wide range of believes as to exactly what the Bible says.
How exactly do we do as you suggest without triggering road blocks in the process of communicating what the Bible says, if we do not seek to understand where the individual is and how he/she sees himself?
How do we communicate the truth in such a way that it does not overshadow our love and compassion?
I may not have the creditials that others here may have. I do not believe you need a whole lot of creditials to relate to people where they are at and minister to them at/ on that level.
Creditals, or some familiarity with the subject tends to add a degree of credibility, in a forum such as this where people come to discuss matters in all their complexity. However, one needs to be a bit careful in resorting to their creditials and credibility, in the discussion because for every expert that argues one way, there is an expert who can argue the opposite. Where does that leave the discusssion?
Once again, How do we, ourselves, separate the sin, and the stereotypye images and reasoning, from the sinner and then get the sinner to see himself apart from his sin?
Though I believe that this question is appropriate in addressing all sins, it is especially true in relating to individuals dealing with sexual issues, like homosexuality. We humans tend to identify ourselves primarily in terms of sex, and I am not just talking about our physical make up. We identify ourselves in the ways we engage in it, and the partners we choose, if any. It is a complex issue. It is made even more complex when and if we try to figure out why and how we have come to see ourselves as we do in relation to sex. Then, if that was not enough, those who discover that the way they see themselves as a sexual being has been all wrong may see their need to change how they see themselves, and identity as a sexual being.
How do we then help them through the rest of the process?
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/31/2008 2:59:59 PM
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Leon_Figg3
Posts: 480
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
What I have found is that homosexuals are just as diverse as heterosexuals.
IN my short lifetime, 44 years, homosexuality has gone from a diagnosable mental illness to a socially acceptable alternative lifestyle. Since when do we ahve to make a distinction between homosexual and heterosexual? How have we come to this point?
quote:
I really do believe that this issue is complicated, and that we don't have all of the answers yet.
Is it really that complicated? Is it complicated because scripture speaks so clearly about homosexuality as well as other forms of sexual deviance? Or, is it complicated because of cultural messages? We have all these researchers trying to find the genesis for the stupid things we do to ourselves and others and yet the Bible speaks to all these issues. All too often it seems that we'd rather listen to those who proclaim to be experts instead of looking to the Word of God that has been around long than any of the experts. Sometimes it seems we like to believe we are one day older than God and twice as smart.
zamdad,
I've been meaning to respond to the questions you posed.
I believe your questions are worthy of a response, but I fear that a response may send this thread in the wrong direction. Regardless, here I go.
I do not believe it has not been the experts so much that have been pushing for a change in the way homosexuality and other sexual identity issues are seen but people, in a number of areas, engaged in changing culture and the concept of civil rights/ equal rights.
Many activist in the gay community (I believe) point to an incident at/on Stonewall through which gays in the United States began to be seen and win their rights as a separate group of people. (Please forgive me for my lapses in memory in this area).
As a historical note, the modern day gay rights movement, could be said to have started in pre-Nazis era Germany.
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/31/2008 3:43:07 PM
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WesP
Posts: 2451
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
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quote:
Who's truth?
As reflected in various forums and threads in Crosswalk, people, let alone Christians, tend to have a wide range of believes as to exactly what the Bible says.
How exactly do we do as you suggest without triggering road blocks in the process of communicating what the Bible says, if we do not seek to understand where the individual is and how he/she sees himself?
How do we communicate the truth in such a way that it does not overshadow our love and compassion?
Leon,
You misunderstand my point. Attacking the supposed education of another person in the discussion is doing nothing to help fix the problem. That was what I was trying to say. As for truth, it is an absolute. Everything else is bias and opinion. I was not suggesting refusing to understand other perceptions at all. I simply said that homosexuality is wrong, and attacking each other or the gay community is not helping in the least. Love and compassion should be evident in our walk. It should be a beacon to others, not a roadblock.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
<--- BTW, this is the true function of corn! It is to help the oil industry and its functionaries, not detract from them! 
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/31/2008 3:46:52 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7702
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please do not use our Community to in any way promote or advocate the acceptability of same-sex unions/marriage, homosexual activity, or homosexual adoption rights.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
_____________________________
Fritz
Senior Manager of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Want to see my latest online project? Check out http://budurl.com/CWonFacebook
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/31/2008 3:47:04 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7702
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
For the sake of this discussion the following definitions will be used:
Homosexual ::
A person who engages in sexual relations with members of the same gender
SSA (Same Sex Attraction) ::
A person who struggles with being attracted to members of the same gender but abstains from engaging in sexual relations with them.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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Fritz
Senior Manager of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Want to see my latest online project? Check out http://budurl.com/CWonFacebook
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/2/2008 12:03:00 AM
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GeorgiaNerd
Posts: 206
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: UGA... RIP UGA VI
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
I really do believe that this issue is complicated, and that we don't have all of the answers yet.
Is it really that complicated? Is it complicated because scripture speaks so clearly about homosexuality as well as other forms of sexual deviance? Or, is it complicated because of cultural messages? We have all these researchers trying to find the genesis for the stupid things we do to ourselves and others and yet the Bible speaks to all these issues. All too often it seems that we'd rather listen to those who proclaim to be experts instead of looking to the Word of God that has been around long than any of the experts. Sometimes it seems we like to believe we are one day older than God and twice as smart.
Didn't mean to offend anyone. This is just the way my mind works. I know what the Bible says about homosexuality: don't do it. If someone is satisfied with knowing just that answer, then good for them. But my mind is one that looks for details in everything. And everything is complicated to me. I read those verses and wonder: why is it wrong? What specific actions are wrong? What causes people to do these actions and/or desire them? What traits are correlated and what is the strength of this correlation? What is the variance? And numerous other questions. I want to know the intricate details, so homosexuality is complicated to me. I want unbiased, scientifically, psychologically and statistically valid studies designed to answer questions such as these. Will knowing the answers change what the Bible says? Absolutely not. But I think they would enhance understanding of the issue.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/2/2008 4:10:34 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1668
Joined: 4/8/2005
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Leon,
You're right, I think your answers may take this thread in a different direction. I have several theories about how the gay agenda has been propigated. But, they're nothing more than theories and there are too many "experts" out there to argue with.
Redcoatmello,
I'm not offended in the least. Like you, I have a lot of questions. Perhaps we each come at our questions with a different perspective.
quote:
why is it wrong?
Because the creator of the universe said so.
quote:
What specific actions are wrong?
Why do we always break it down to action? Actions are precipitated by thoughts wihch come from attitudes, values and beliefs. I believes this is why Jesus told us that we have commited adultery if we look at someone with lust. It's in our thought lives.
quote:
What causes people to do these actions and/or desire them?
Sin. Sex feels good and once people do it, they want more of it. Again, see my comments on our thought lives.
quote:
I want unbiased, scientifically, psychologically and statistically valid studies designed to answer questions such as these.
Good luck finding unbiased research when it comes to human sexuality.
quote:
Will knowing the answers change what the Bible says? Absolutely not. But I think they would enhance understanding of the issue.
Does it really enhance understanding? or, does it simply fill our minds with more information that confuses us all the more?
I have a question for you, Redcoat. If you are asexual, why the strong interest in topics regarding sex?
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/2/2008 9:33:20 AM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
What specific actions are wrong? What causes people to do these actions and/or desire them?
That's why discussing SSA is important in my mind. I know not all people that do homosexual acts are actually attracted to the same sex (stuff like in The Tearoom Trade), but I think if many of them were not attracted to the same sex, they wouldn't have sex with the same sex anyway. I think SSA has many causes (including physiology), and it IS a choice to act on those desires, but I think for most homosexuals the SSA has to be there in the first place. I do understand that (for example) some men have sex with other men, but don't have any SSA; they're attracted to women (saw that a lot also in Tearoom Trade).
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/2/2008 12:28:38 PM
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GeorgiaNerd
Posts: 206
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: UGA... RIP UGA VI
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quote:
I have a question for you, Redcoat. If you are asexual, why the strong interest in topics regarding sex?
Sexuality is the one thing I can't understand as an asexual, so that just makes me want to understand it more. Sometimes I want to know how sexuality works. I'm much more interested in musical analysis, biology and statistics than sexuality, though.
quote:
Because the creator of the universe said so.
That explains a lot. I was always the kid who wouldn't stop pestering her parents until they gave a better answer than "because I said so." I had no trouble obeying, but I always wanted to know why.
quote:
Does it really enhance understanding? or, does it simply fill our minds with more information that confuses us all the more?
I guess it depends on the person. Some people are very detail-oriented, while others are better at conceptual learning.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/3/2008 3:48:11 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1668
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quote:
Sometimes I want to know how sexuality works.
While there is nothing wrong with this statement, it seems this is how many people become involved in sex outside God's design.
quote:
That's why discussing SSA is important in my mind. I know not all people that do homosexual acts are actually attracted to the same sex (stuff like in The Tearoom Trade), but I think if many of them were not attracted to the same sex, they wouldn't have sex with the same sex anyway. I think SSA has many causes (including physiology), and it IS a choice to act on those desires, but I think for most homosexuals the SSA has to be there in the first place. I do understand that (for example) some men have sex with other men, but don't have any SSA; they're attracted to women (saw that a lot also in Tearoom Trade).
Solo, What about those people who act out bestiality, pedophilia, necrophilia, etc? Is there a sexual attraction to animals, children, dead people? All this talk about SSA seems to, in essence, justify homosexual acts. I also think the term attraction is the wrong word to use with regard to sexual matters. We are all attracted to many people and things. But when it comes to our sexuality, it's what gets us aroused. Perhaps the term SSA should be changed to same sex arousal.
I have worked with many men and women through the years that have engaged in same sex behavior, but do not consider themselves homosexual or bi-sexual. While they spoke about attractions, when it came to lusting after someone to want to engage in coitus with them, it was because their arousal level had been peaked and their minds either submitted to the persuasion of another or sought to get someone in a position of vulnerability or easy persuasion.
I hate to keep bringing up the thing about animals. Yet, so many of the men that I've worked with have admitted to engaging in sex with farm animals. Cows seem to be the preferred means of gratification as this is a dairy area. Is there a sexual attraction (or arousal) with cows? None of the men who admitted having engaged in the act admitted an attraction. The only arousal was the fact that they were in the mood and the cow was better than handy.
And then there are those who are truly aroused by children. I' ve listened to several men discuss how they are truly aroused by children. While they know it's wrong to engage in sex with children, they are driven into secret lives if they choose to act their arousal template. They look at the acceptance homosexuality has gained and hope that the stigma on them will fade some day as well.
I have nothing agaisnst academia or studying how and why things work. Yet, there are some things that seem to do nothing more than fill our heads with knowledge to take our focus off God. In due time we come to believe we are two days older than God and twice as smart.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/3/2008 10:18:38 AM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2474
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From: I'm a Southern girl
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Zamdad, the stuff you're talking about are the kind of things I was referring to in the Tearoom Trade. Attraction doesn't always drive the action. Sometimes it's other reasons. All the homosexuals I know are sexually attracted to others of the same sex, and act on it. I know there are people who perform homosexual acts who are not attracted to the same sex. I think the same can go for beastiality, etc. There doesn't have to be attraction for someone to do it.
I don't think I'll ever not believe that some people's perverse sexual attractions (same-sex attraction mainly) are due, in part, to biology. I think, with those specific people, there may be some hope of therapy (I've seen it be reversed before). I suppose some others may benefit from psychological therapy (or psychiatric). I just don't dismiss biological problems, because some people have biological problems that contribute. I think, rather than trying to be smarter than God, He gives us knowledge to try to understand these things. If some people do have a chemical problem that's making them attracted to the same sex (sexually), knowledge can help us try to balance the problem out. It's not always people trying to justify this or that; it's about understanding in hopes of trying to fix the problem. I haven't seen people try to justify homosexuality with science. I have seen people say that this attraction may be biologically based; I think that is important.
< Message edited by solo_soprano21 -- 2/3/2008 10:57:13 AM >
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/3/2008 12:51:58 PM
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GeorgiaNerd
Posts: 206
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From: UGA... RIP UGA VI
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quote:
I don't think I'll ever not believe that some people's perverse sexual attractions (same-sex attraction mainly) are due, in part, to biology. I think, with those specific people, there may be some hope of therapy (I've seen it be reversed before). I suppose some others may benefit from psychological therapy (or psychiatric). I just don't dismiss biological problems, because some people have biological problems that contribute. I think, rather than trying to be smarter than God, He gives us knowledge to try to understand these things. If some people do have a chemical problem that's making them attracted to the same sex (sexually), knowledge can help us try to balance the problem out. It's not always people trying to justify this or that; it's about understanding in hopes of trying to fix the problem. I haven't seen people try to justify homosexuality with science. I have seen people say that this attraction may be biologically based; I think that is important.
Right. This is what I was thinking as well. I don't think that familial relations are the only things that cause SSA, as I know many homosexuals with great families. But it may be possible that familial relations do cause SSA in some individuals. Some of the twin studies and androgen studies suggest that the cause could be genetic or pre-natal environmental as well. I think lots of things can cause SSA, and that learning these things could give therapists like Mark a higher success rate because the success rate in reparative therapy is abysmal from what I have heard. Some of the homosexuals that I know with great families have tried reparative therapy and failed. The therapist tried to push the idea of a broken family. I also know a masculine gay man who tried the therapy and failed because the therapist was trying to make him feel more confident in his masculinity. So, I think the more we know, the more we can help individuals who desire to change.
I would love to find out possible causes of asexuality, bisexuality, transgenderism and even heterosexuality as well. My curiosity is not limited to just homosexuality. And zamdad, I know that having sex isn't going to make me understand why most people desire it. I tried that with making out enough times. 
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/3/2008 1:35:12 PM
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solo_soprano22
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I think neuroscience is investigating it. Of course, psychology is, but I suppose with me hopefully finishing up biology soon in undergrad (and having taken classes in both psychology and clinical neuroscience) I'm more interested in chemical problems, biology and physiology for the time being. I know there are people who have that attraction for the same sex who have no problems like this, but it's important to me because there ARE people who have these problems-- and gaining this knowledge can potentially help them. (I know some biological problems already can be treated in this area.)
I think some just have a hard time fathoming how attraction can be out of whack because of something that's messed up within the body. My father can't understand that. He can't get how brain chemistry can potentially cause mental illness, for example. I've just accepted that some people don't believe in science in this area.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/3/2008 5:37:25 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1668
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
All the homosexuals I know are sexually attracted to others of the same sex, and act on it. I know there are people who perform homosexual acts who are not attracted to the same sex. I think the same can go for beastiality, etc. There doesn't have to be attraction for someone to do it.
Which is why I asked the question, is it attraction or arousal?
quote:
I don't think I'll ever not believe that some people's perverse sexual attractions (same-sex attraction mainly) are due, in part, to biology.
Is this an indicator of where bias and biased research comes from? What you seem to be saying is that even if all the evidence points away from biological causation, you will continue to believe in biolgical causes and work to find one.
quote:
I haven't seen people try to justify homosexuality with science.
Look at all the studies trying to find causes for behavior. The Bible is clear about these behaviors and the Bible has been around forever. Many of these studies have been published to prove theories that sex outside God's design is completely normal. But, the academic/research world being what it is, theories fall as fast as they come up as researchers refute each others studies.
As for the discussion with therapies to help people overcome their attractions/addictions, etc. First off, why is it we blame the therapists when treatment fails? If a person truly wants to change, they will use whatever resources at their disposal to make that change. Secondly, when it comes to treating sexual behavior, using anything other than a cognitive based application is not going to change anything. It's nothing more than finding an excuse, something to blame personal behavior on. From there, it becomes sin management as there is little to no interest in killing sin.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/3/2008 11:30:03 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
Is this an indicator of where bias and biased research comes from? What you seem to be saying is that even if all the evidence points away from biological causation, you will continue to believe in biolgical causes and work to find one.
Even now some have been known to have biological problems which contributed to their attractions (I know I've mentioned hormone cases at least in this thread). Evidence now does point toward biological reasons (not in everyone, but in some cases). It makes logical sense to me that if a man has hormones like that of a female (in the same quantities), he might just be attracted to other men like a woman would be attracted to a man. I know I mentioned that case study, and there's more than one. I know androgenic problems can do the same thing. I'm not sure how much biology has to do with SSA in a majority of those who have it; I don't think they will ever try to test everyone who has SSA.
If nothing in biology pointed toward a cause today, I probably would still suspect that there might be one for some people. A chemical imbalance can really mess you up in more ways than I could ever name, and I believe that this is something that happens with some with SSA. I just think anything biologically related gets dismissed in theology too much...when indeed, if we could sometimes try to understand it, we may be able to USE biological knowledge to help or treat.
quote:
The Bible is clear about these behaviors and the Bible has been around forever. Many of these studies have been published to prove theories that sex outside God's design is completely normal. But, the academic/research world being what it is, theories fall as fast as they come up as researchers refute each others studies.
I'm not sure that the Bible is clear about SSA. I know it is clear about having sex with the same sex. I (personally) suspect hormone problems or other chemical problems could be an issue in some with SSA. Our world is fallen; our bodies don't always come out perfect.
I was working on something for a presentation on a specific dementia. It has a definite cause, but something was happening in the brain that made these people really lose it-- no way for them to control it-- the chemicals were out of whack and thereby causes all kinds of other things to go terribly wrong and out of sync in the brain. (They took meds that would reverse or thwart the problem, and they did get better if they were diagnosed correctly and given correct treatment.)
Now, I'm not saying that SSA is a mental illness; I said all of that for a reason. People seem to want to think that we have control over everything and our propensities. If a man wants to be attracted to a woman, he ought to force himself to be, despite the fact that he can't control that in his body for some reason. Doesn't fly with me. It doesn't always have to be a biological reason for this, by the way.
I don't think that SSA is inherently sinful. People have mentioned that lusting is in SSA, but so it is in heterosexual ways.
< Message edited by solo_soprano21 -- 2/3/2008 11:36:41 PM >
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/4/2008 1:09:26 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1668
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Status: offline
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Solo, you seem to be lost in your petrie dish in your quest to find scientific reasons for the way people behave. While I am not dismissing science, I have been trying to get you to look at this from a different perspective. Your responses thus far seem to indicate that your focus is on the microscope, not God's word, let alone other ideas.
I know there are chemical imbalances in the brain and body that cause mental illness and physical illness. There are chemicals involved in sexual arousal. Yet, the choice to act on arousal is a spiritual choice. Sometimes it emms our quest to find the causes of sin results in a quest to medicate away our sin nature. As I said before, if we don't kill sin, we merely learn to manage it.
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“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/4/2008 5:21:48 AM
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Marksman
Posts: 271
Joined: 6/7/2007
From: Drouin, Victoria, Australia
Status: offline
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quote:
Care to answer those questions yourself before judging those of us who disagree with you? Some of those questions can only be fulfilled by those whose opinion is the same as yours anyways.
I don't have to answer any of the questions until Henny, our resident expert answers the questions I have asked him. Your statement that I am judging those who disagree with me is quite spurious and ridiculous. It is your way of saying I don't want to hear your views because they do not agree with mine.
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Also, I stated in a previous post that causation of homosexuality cannot be inferred from your research, which is observational in nature.
Of course, I won't mention again the clinical trials done by other medical and pshychological practitioners with hundreds of homosexuals and whose books are on my shelves. I guess that all their hard work carried out over years is of no consequence because it does not fit in with anecdotal evidence from a small sample.
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Actually, you are making an unfounded assertion from the data present. You said that the study concluded that 54% of teens had not had sex yet at the time of the survey. You can't conclude from this, however, that these same teens will wait to have sex until they are married. Please forgive me but this has to be one of the most stupid comments ever made. No one concludes from a survey what people are going to do. The purpose of surveys is to find out what people are doing. Surveys are conducted to find out trends as well as past events. The fact that a figure may change is obvious to all intellegent people.
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Let's cut to the chase, shall we? None of this matters with respect to the rightness or wrongness of homosexuality.
It does when people are claiming to be experts on the basis of anecdotal evidence based on a handful of people.
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God Bless America
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 2/4/2008 8:39:57 AM
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