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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 2/20/2008 1:02:07 AM
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FoxInSox
Posts: 1364
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: dallas
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Designed,
The concept of codependency began, I think, in the 70's as mental health professionals began to notice that people in close relation (child, parent, spouse) to people with chemical dependencies seemed to show a similar pattern of behavior. It's as if trying to control, help, manage the other person's addiction became that person's addiction. This term has grown over the years to include people who, in general, experienced a family of origin or other intimate social system that was abusive/dysfunctional such that the individual's thoughts, feelings, and behaviors tend to be compuslive, manipulative, controlling, overly pleasing.
For me, my family of origin has alot of emotional dysfunction, and I experienced emotional abuse as a result. This damaged me in several ways. The symptoms I see in myself are my compulsive behaviors, tendency towards anxiety/depression, an icky kind of people pleasing, a tendency to be hypersensitive/hypervigilant, and a tendency to try to control my husband and dad by performing just how they want (ie, if they are happy, then my life feels all together, so I do whatever is necessary to appease them).
Fortunately for me, my DH comes from a reasonably functional family, and he doesn't "do" the codependent dance. This has really given me the opportunity to look at myself and evaluate what I'm doing.
My personal compulsive behaviors of choice are compulsive excercise/eating/not eating (60 days on that  ) and self-injury (7 months ). I had been doing really well, with several years under my belt, but I had a pretty hard relapse this time last year. It was my bottom, and I began doing recovery very differently. At that time, for the first time, I was willing to do whatever it took to get better, even if it meant looking at my family and participating in some sort of group.
The support of peers and "old-timers" as well as the truth about my family have both been critical to my recovery. Recovery is just *different* now. I have people I can call. I have a sponsor, who knows codependency in and out. Even if she doesn't have my exact issues, she knows the "need" to engage in some kind of behavior. I have friends in varying stages of recovery who know my "stuff," and love and encourage me. They ask for the same in return, and I am able to provide it.
Looking at my family ... it's extremely painful. It is necessary. Considering the truths of my history is shifting my entire worldview, and that is scary. It, also, is necessary.
I deeply value the 12 Steps. I am currently beginning my first 4th step, and it's really hard for me. It's giving me an opportunity to write about the emotional abuse, name it in writing, say it out loud, trust myself, etc. I also am grateful for the opportunity to examine my own motives for hanging onto my resentments and fears about painful things that have happened. I'm so ready to move on, and I will do whatever it takes.
I haven't mentioned it yet, but I do see a counselor. I'm not sure if she is a beleiver, but I think so. She is far more liberal that most CW'ers, though. I chose this on purpose. I have a history of spiritual abuse, and I just can't do the "Christian Counselor" thing right now. What I really value about my counselor is that she works from a family systems perspective. I am a counseling student, and I work from a very different perspective. Because she and I see the world differently, I don't usually "get ahead" of her in sessions. She always catches me off guard, allowing me to process in a new way (which is why I am there, after all...)
I also recently graduated from an organization called Barnabas, which is a Christian personal growth workshop. Think...group therapy + inpatient + Jesus + steroids. I was very hesitant about it at first, but I have met some amazing people. Like my 12 Step friends, they know my "stuff" and I know theres, and we are able to walk with each other through the fire and encourage and love each other and point each other to Jesus. It's really, really cool. (www.barnabasjourney.org if you are interested).
My position on addictions is that they come in both compulsive behaviors and chemical dependencies. Each have their unique difficulties. For example, alcohol detox is life threatening and I can't imagine how one fights against both psychological addiction and physical addiction. At the same time...those who self injure are never without their drug of choice. We always have fists, nails, teeth, etc., if we wanted, even if that isn't really our primary implement. People with food issues can't just avoid food; for some of us, avoiding food was the problem in the first place.
As you may have guessed, I am a strong supporter of 12 Step programs. I also value the impact individual/group/family counseling. I particularly like these two things in conjuction. I support the use pf psychiatric meds, though I do favor counseling. I think meds and counseling are a great mix, too. Really, if something is available and encourages recovery (for addiction or mental health issues), I support it. These are very painful problems, and I advocate using all options (including more natural supports like church, family, work adjustments).
take care,
~m
_____________________________
~ formerly infinitepiphany ~
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 2/20/2008 8:00:53 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3109
Joined: 7/10/2006
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Good point, FoxInSox. Addictive personalities and behaviors are not restricted to psychoactive drug abuse.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 2/20/2008 2:34:32 PM
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designed
Posts: 224
Joined: 12/21/2007
Status: offline
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Thank you for sharing such an honest and personal experience Fox.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:35
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/11/2008 9:09:45 AM
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dd964vet
Posts: 12
Joined: 8/2/2007
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Alot of really good stuff here. Thank you all for your input!
Here's my two cents worth;
Defining addiction is pretty straight forward--any time we look to something other than God for our well being, we engage in idolatry. This seems to me to be an apt description of addiction, alcoholism, obsessive/compulsion (both the immersive and aversive) etc. And taken a step further, any time we look to something other than God for our well being there is sure to be negative resut, for only God can provide for our well being. To attempt to find well being elsewhere is to attempt to circumvent the very nature of relationship we were created for. This will always end badly.
As to how we as christians should approach the issue-- now that is the sticky wicket. Every addict is an individual-unique in perception and assimilative function. Just as no single presentation of the Gospel is the correct method of presentation in every circumstance, so also each addict will respond in unique ways to efforts to help them. There are however, in my experience, three levels of "epiphany" that each of them must go through however they come to them. (it may be appropriate to add a word of preface at this point; the caregiver must remain aware that he/she cannot have a "spiritual awakening" FOR someone, irregardless of how deeply we would wish it or how dire the need for it)
1. Sometimes the problem isn't the problem. As was noted earlier in this thread, no one drinks because they wish to become an alcoholic. The behaviors are driven by beliefs. What we belive about God, ourselves and others around us will influence, if not dictate, our actions. When our beliefs are erroneous the behaviors exhibited will be negative. Shame is far and away the most common example of this among addicts. Unresolved guilt becomes shame--shame leads to hiding--hiding is lieing--lieing is sin--sin equates guilt--and unresolved guilt becomes shame...and on and on. If these underlying beliefs are not identified, examined in light of truth and effectivly addressed, the chances of sobriety leading to long term recovery are very very slim.
2. These erroneous beliefs are also not the problem, nor are they the solution. To end our process here is simple behavior modification, and does not address the true crux of the issue. It may or may not arrest the presenting condition, but human knowledge of and response to these motivatng factors are not transformation into Christlkness by the working of the Holy Spirit. Our powerlessness to effect such transformation must be recognized, embraced and God's power to do so RELIED upon. Just as our abject inability is the human porton of the essence of the gospel, so to it is with deliverence and sanctification. We can't, He can.
3. Relience upon God and God alone for our wellbeing, by grace, through faith-not of ourselves-not of works.
< Message edited by dd964vet -- 5/12/2008 12:25:26 PM >
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/13/2008 7:48:38 PM
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Ruthie
Posts: 51
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Center of the Universe, Canada
Status: offline
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People always tell me that alcoholism is a disease, that alcoholics have a problem and are sick.
Honestly, I don't care anymore. Alcoholics are selfish. Sorry, but its true. They don't even care about themselves. They're willing to destroy their own bodies. Its all about the next drink, that next sip. Nothing gets in the way of the almighty bottle.
Family doesn't even make the radar. We aren't even a distant third. If family is thought of, its how troublesome we are and how much money they "waste" on us that they could better spend on liquor.
I don't blame genes, I don't blame the bottle, I don't even blame Satan. I blame him. He chooses to drink. Its his fault. Not mine. Not DNA.
I'm just so tired of caring about a person who is hell bent on self destruction.
Tired of people feeling so sorry for them. Tired of trying to understand. Tired of trying to be the perfect daughter who has no needs and just sits on a shelf until he's bored enough to pay attention. Tired of trying to be lovable enough to notice. Tired of being scared because he's drunk, again. Tired of trying not to notice him passed out drunk on the floor, lying in his own urine. Tired of walking on eggshells because he's hung over, again. Tired of forgiving, again.
Just sick and tired. I don't have any compassion left in me. I really wish I did. Whatever reservoirs I had are depleted. I don't even hate him anymore.
Is it a disease? I don't really know. I suppose that a predisposition for alcoholism could be genetic. That doesn't make it any less of a sin.
Still praying. For him and me. Thought I saw him praying yesterday. Had so much hope... He was reaching under the bed for a bottle of vodka.
Crushed again. I'm so stupid for having hope.
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/13/2008 9:14:49 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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Ruthie,
I haven't had a lot of experience with alcoholics, but a few. I concur with you. I'm all for compassion if they will really try to quit. But some of them only go through the motions.
Anyway, my experience with long term alcoholics (2 and only 2) is that they ARE indeed self-centered, selfish, caring primarily about themselves and their own pleasures.
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/14/2008 8:16:06 AM
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dd964vet
Posts: 12
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline
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Ruthie;
Your post is one of the single most honest and frank descriptions of the devastation wrought in the lives of loved ones of substances abusers I have seen in many years. Thank you so much for your willingness to let us see so deeply into your pain.
If I may, I would like to ask your permission to cite your comments in my work in Recovery Ministry.
Please feel free to contact me at any time. jfarmer@elmbrook.org
quote:
Still praying. For him and me.
A wise and mature course of acton.
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/14/2008 10:25:50 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3542
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruthie
Crushed again. I'm so stupid for having hope.
Not stupid, just human. I hope you are getting help for yourself, at the very least A-Anon.
_____________________________
Wer weiß, was Übel im Herzen der Männer lauert? Nur der Schatten weiß. Giants 17 Patriots 14.
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/14/2008 10:45:13 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3109
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
People always tell me that alcoholism is a disease, that alcoholics have a problem and are sick. Ruthie, it's with great sensitivity and discernment that we must all be reminded of some basic spiritual truths. Alcoholics are sick - sick with the condition of self-centered sinfulness. Unfortunately, all the rest of us suffer from the same spiritual condition. However, praise God, there is a cure called His grace. I pray with you that he will be so flooded with God's grace that a miracle will occur in your family's life!
quote:
I'm just so tired of caring about a person who is hell bent on self destruction. It certainly is natural to feel this way, but God calls us to a higher level of feeling. Let the Holy Spirit intercede for you with groans that your own spirit cannot express with words (Rom 8:26-27). How thankful we are that Jesus did not give up caring for us when we were hell-bent on self-destruction!
quote:
Crushed again. I'm so stupid for having hope. It is never "stupid" to have hope, Ruthie. Romans 5:5 says, "And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us." Use the Love that God has poured out in you to draw closer to Him, make wise choices for you and your family's health, and to never give up on the grace of God!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/14/2008 11:02:13 AM
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Ruthie
Posts: 51
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Center of the Universe, Canada
Status: offline
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dd964vet, if it helps someone else, yes, you have my permission.
Cow451, I am reading a book called Adult Children of Alcoholics, its helpful but painful to read. I had no idea that I was that screwed up.
Intellectually I know that my childhood was dysfunctional but when I read about it, I get this visceral shock of "What, you mean this isn't normal?"
After all, what kid dreads Friday and looks forward to Monday because that's when school starts and I don't have to be home, listening to all the screaming and fighting, wondering what my dad was going to do this time.
I know that I need to forgive and I do try. I pray for my family and my father all the time. At this point though, I fear that God has given him over to sin. It has this feeling of no return. I'm so mad at him but I'm so afraid he's not going to heaven. I've tried talking to him about salvation... He's looking forward to oblivion, he won't listen to me that Hell is real.
Its almost worse being the saved child of an alcoholic, knowing that they're heading full steam towards Hell and nothing you do seems to stop it. So mad at him, so angry at him, How dare he make me feel this way.... So afraid of where he's going.... So powerless to stop it.
Lord, please please please save my dad...
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/14/2008 11:04:38 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 613
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruthie
People always tell me that alcoholism is a disease, that alcoholics have a problem and are sick.
Honestly, I don't care anymore. Alcoholics are selfish. Sorry, but its true. They don't even care about themselves. They're willing to destroy their own bodies. Its all about the next drink, that next sip. Nothing gets in the way of the almighty bottle.
Family doesn't even make the radar. We aren't even a distant third. If family is thought of, its how troublesome we are and how much money they "waste" on us that they could better spend on liquor.
I don't blame genes, I don't blame the bottle, I don't even blame Satan. I blame him. He chooses to drink. Its his fault. Not mine. Not DNA.
I'm just so tired of caring about a person who is hell bent on self destruction.
Tired of people feeling so sorry for them. Tired of trying to understand. Tired of trying to be the perfect daughter who has no needs and just sits on a shelf until he's bored enough to pay attention. Tired of trying to be lovable enough to notice. Tired of being scared because he's drunk, again. Tired of trying not to notice him passed out drunk on the floor, lying in his own urine. Tired of walking on eggshells because he's hung over, again. Tired of forgiving, again.
Just sick and tired. I don't have any compassion left in me. I really wish I did. Whatever reservoirs I had are depleted. I don't even hate him anymore.
Is it a disease? I don't really know. I suppose that a predisposition for alcoholism could be genetic. That doesn't make it any less of a sin.
Still praying. For him and me. Thought I saw him praying yesterday. Had so much hope... He was reaching under the bed for a bottle of vodka.
Crushed again. I'm so stupid for having hope.
I would like to strongly recommend Al-anon for you. You are very hurt and angry, with good reason. Alcoholism is devastating to a family. This is where you become responsible for your own recovery. You might now say, "I am not sick, I am not the one with a drinking problem..." No, you are not, but your are the one with emotional scars, anger, pain, resentment. You need healing too. Fixing the alcoholic is not your problem. Fixing you, is. The best thing in the world for your alcoholic is for you to be happy and healthy. The alcoholic will suffer the consequences of their action with or without your help. I am a recovered alcoholic. Catering to the alcoholic does nothing for them or for you except to build even further resentment. This is a problem only God can fix. May God bless you in this journey.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/14/2008 11:25:15 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 613
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dd964vet
Defining addiction is pretty straight forward--any time we look to something other than God for our well being, we engage in idolatry. This seems to me to be an apt description of addiction, alcoholism, obsessive/compulsion (both the immersive and aversive) etc. And taken a step further, any time we look to something other than God for our well being there is sure to be negative resut, for only God can provide for our well being. To attempt to find well being elsewhere is to attempt to circumvent the very nature of relationship we were created for. This will always end badly.
As to how we as christians should approach the issue-- now that is the sticky wicket. Every addict is an individual-unique in perception and assimilative function. Just as no single presentation of the Gospel is the correct method of presentation in every circumstance, so also each addict will respond in unique ways to efforts to help them. There are however, in my experience, three levels of "epiphany" that each of them must go through however they come to them. (it may be appropriate to add a word of preface at this point; the caregiver must remain aware that he/she cannot have a "spiritual awakening" FOR someone, irregardless of how deeply we would wish it or how dire the need for it)
I feel the need to mention here, most addicts/alcoholics are resistant to hearing anything about God. They don't realize that they need a Savior. They don't even realize they have a problem. Just because others tell them they have a problem does not mean they know.
DD964 are you recovered?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/14/2008 6:28:40 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
I know that I need to forgive and I do try. I pray for my family and my father all the time. At this point though, I fear that God has given him over to sin. It has this feeling of no return. I'm so mad at him but I'm so afraid he's not going to heaven. I've tried talking to him about salvation... He's looking forward to oblivion, he won't listen to me that Hell is real.
Its almost worse being the saved child of an alcoholic, knowing that they're heading full steam towards Hell and nothing you do seems to stop it. So mad at him, so angry at him, How dare he make me feel this way.... So afraid of where he's going.... So powerless to stop it.
Ruthie,
It sounds like you do forgive him and have forgiven him. But everyday is a new day and a new battle to forgive again--probably because fresh memories keep cropping up. If you did not have an attitude of forgiveness, then you would not want him to be saved and to go to heaven.
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/14/2008 10:17:49 PM
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dd964vet
Posts: 12
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline
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GrahamCracker
I am. By the grace of God I am a recovered addict and alcoholic.
< Message edited by dd964vet -- 5/14/2008 10:44:59 PM >
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/14/2008 10:38:11 PM
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dd964vet
Posts: 12
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline
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Ruthie;
It is good to hear that you are reading about and beginning to address the issue you are faced with. This will not always be easy but will always be better than ignoring them.
I'd like to recommend an exercise to in regards to forgiveness.
Imagine your father.
Imagine him wearing handcuffs.
Now take the handcuffs off.
Just for the moment don't allow it to be any more complicated than this.
Now read Matt 6:12.
The original word that is translated forgive in the Lord's prayer (aphiemi) carries with it an idea of release, a "loosing of chains". When we release our debtors we find that we experience release ourselves.
Might I also suggest that the advise you are receiving here to seek out assistance for yourself is very good advice.
You do not have to know what to do.
You also do not have to go through this alone.
If your church has any sort of Pastoral Counseling available to you I recommend that you seek it.
There are also para-church organizations that may be very helpful. Both Overcomers Outreach and Celebrate Recovery would be appropriate venues to investigate, and have meeting directories available on their websites.
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RE: What is addiction/alcoholism? - 5/15/2008 5:01:38 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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Ruthie said
quote:
Perhaps one day, yes?
* I wish there was a hope smilie * *Oh, here it is!
Yes, one day. I do know that God often works when we ourselves give up. I wish I had more optimism, more faith and more hope. I try never to discourage people from wishing the seemingly impossible. I never intended to do that. But, of course, I am human too.
quote:
ORIGINAL: dd964vet
GrahamCracker
I am. By the grace of God I am a recovered addict and alcoholic.
I am happy for you and hope that God blesses you. I did not intend to discourage anyone from being compassionate to addicts. But sometimes compassionate people become well-meaning enablers. I am an advocate of tough love, but willing to lend a hand to someone ready to quit their addiction. But I know that the human heart is stubborn and often excuses weakness for inability. With God's help we can quit. It is difficult but not impossible.
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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