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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 3:19:14 PM
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chrisovery
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i do not believe that we are condoning or justifying suicide. we are simply stating that we do not think that you should condemn anyone nor judge the final judgment on anyone. it is not our place. not to mention that talking about suicide in this manner does not keep one from doing it . rather it raises the curiosity of people to try it. if you have never seen the symptoms or worked with or been around anyone that has tried or has committed suicide i dont think you should say a whole lot about it.
i think this is a problem with many people they read a book or attend a school and then they think they can go help people with problems or things they have not been through themselves. well it doesnt help because they dont truly know from a book that they have read.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:00:46 PM
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ladyichigo
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quote:
ladyichigo (not sure if you are japanese, is it number 1 lady?)
Yes, I'm of Japanese descent, and no, it's Lady "Strawberry".
I've responded a few times to this thread already, and this will be my last post on this particular thread.
I am in no way an advocate for suicide. And yes, we should be helping those who are contemplating suicide, Christian and Non-Christian and be praying for them and encouraging them to LIVE.
Without a doubt in my mind those who have not repented and asked Christ be Lord over their life, and be their Savior, will be condemned to hell when they die. Regardless of HOW they died.
IF a person, who is a born-again Christian and lived the Christian-life committed suicide, would their sin of suicide be forgiven? Well, they were already bought with the Blood of the Lamb, so I would think that they were forgiven. But frankly my answer is I DON'T KNOW. That's between them and God. That is what I have come to understand with my dad committing suicide. I don't know and it's okay that I don't know. Like you said, "what's done is done." I've forgiven my father for what he did. I trust God and I find peace in trusting God. I don't find peace in worrying if I will see my dad in Heaven, or if I'm worrying that my dad is burning in Hell. Yes, I still miss my dad, and sure wish he walked me down the aisle on my wedding day like he said he would. I wish he wwas still here to see his grand-kids. Am I hoping to see my dad in Heaven? Yes I am. But will I be sad if I don't? Well, I'm sure I would be too awe-struck by God's glory to even think about that when I am in His presence. My faith in Jesus Christ, my God is not based on the "hope" that I will see my dad in heaven when I leave this earth.
I believe Jesus Christ is the Righteous Judge, and He is Sovereign and it is on His understanding that I lean on. Not on mine, not on man's interpretations of Scripture. I don't know if my dad "asked for forgiveness" before he took his last breath in the garage where he hung himself, I wasn't there. I think the question of whether a Christian Who Commits Suicide Still Has Salvation should be discussed in the "Salvation Issues" folder.
Deciding and lecturing people based on your own understanding of Scripture that people like my dad have been erased from the Lamb's Book of Life because of what they did, to the surviving family members, it doesn't bring any comfort, it doesn't ease the anguish in the least. Stuff like that doesn't encourage and it's not uplifting.
If anyone passing through this thread is a Christian and is contemplating suicide due to mental illness, or other factors, please please seek help ASAP. There is so much more to this life when you are around. God has so much in store for you! Do please know that He has plans for you, plans to prosper you and not harm you. You may not have much material stuff while you are on earth, but by doing the Lord's work here, while you work for His glory here, you are storing up treasure in Heaven. Hold on to the hope in Christ Jesus, and find comfort in Him. Let Him comfort you and dry your tears. You are important, and you are not a burden. You are God's precious child and He delights in you.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:03:28 PM
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dyluck
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Actually, I have had a best friend had a very strong attempted suicide and had suicidal tendancies for some time.
I can talk to him openly about that part of his life because he is changed in Jesus.
Suicide is willfull sin (i see the majority of people admit this) and honestly they go out of life willfully sinning see this verse: Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries."
From what I understand from him, he believes whole heartedly if he succeeded, he would have been in hell, no matter how much he loved Jesus and believed in Jesus before. He said by the Grace of God he is still here and has a chance to Know God and follow his word.
Someone said that they and their mom got the same insight that a person in who committed suicide is in heaven. I am happy to hear that!; however, test the spirit. The bible says so! Even if you think you feel God come over you and you are suddenly prophesying... test the spirit on that too. Don't just accept everything that comes to use (potentially disguised as something of God). I am not discrediting it, i am just saying, test the spirit. Open your bible and don't look in the bible to find ways to justify it, but read the bible and through that see how it corilates to the situation.
The verse that says Lord Lord, I prophesied in your name and cast out demons... Is someone who thinks they are christian yes! and they lived a sinfull carnal life. But that discribed the vast majority of "christians" in our day. It says in the bible "we will know them by their fruits". We can't judge them at the level of God or anything, but we can ceritianly recognize them according to this verse. I don't find many fruit filled christians these days. (not saying im prefect either).
Now i want to pose a question with EVERYONE here.. we see two instances of Suicide in the bible.
Saul and Judas. Well If you look at the greek text, Judas repented onto death as far as i know. Different from repenting onto life! The word repent is different in the texts. Now Judas's suicide implies eternal damnation (rather grusome). Saul knew he was dead anyway and this is slightly differet. We dont' know saul's heart if he was killing himself for selfish reasons or because he rather die by his sword instead of possibly be horribly torchered or disgraced. The bible implies that Saul is in heaven but doesn't directly say it.
As far as i checked, none of the people we are talking about aren't at the tail end of a battle where life is over anyway. Judas death was dark and grusome...
The people that have passed on already, it is too late either way.. If God forgives them or not, it is over.
We can sit here all day till we are all blue in the face trying to tell eachother "this person is in heaven or this person is not in heaven" God will make that judgement in the end.
Again i will say this, we as christians have a responsibility to not cause our brother to stumble. this fourm needs to take a drastic turn and become a support for people who have suicide on the mind.
Friend, don't give up! Your life will turn around when you submit to God almighty! Believe in Jesus with your whole heart soul strength and mind.
Can a Christian be lost after being in a secure position (saved), here is a good interactive site and it has some strong versus in there! Answer truthfully and you will see.
Before you go to the link I read this recently: 2 Peter 3:17 "Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."
http://www.bible.ca/auto-fallaway.htm
< Message edited by dyluck -- 9/17/2008 5:11:18 PM >
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:09:15 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dyluck
From what I understand from him, he believes whole heartedly if he succeeded, he would have been in hell, no matter how much he loved Jesus and believed in Jesus before. He said by the Grace of God he is still here and has a chance to Know God and follow his word.
I'm glad your friend is alive but his feeling about what might have happened is in and of itself not inspired scripture.
I'm sorry, however, that you feel compelled to assert as the oracles of God that suicide is a ticket to hell. If you're wrong, and I believe you are, then you are inflicting enormous hurt on grieving families for no better reason than to show off your perceived theological skills. That is sad to me.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:18:42 PM
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chrisovery
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i totally agree this does need to take a drastic turn. so lets point out a few things about the topic. many people will talk about it and even have thoughts. we want to talk to them as soon as they start to talk about it. but it is when we do not see them and they lock themselves to them selves that we need to worry about the act. as long as they are only talking about it they arent going to truly do it. they may attempt it but their hearts not in it at this point.
so how do we console a soul that is hurting like this. we first must find out what they are holding on to.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:22:38 PM
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Kath
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quote:
Suicide is willfull sin (i see the majority of people admit this) and honestly they go out of life willfully sinning
You presume too much. You cannot possibly know if they repented or not so you do not know if they left this life 'willfully sinning'.
I'm not sure if Judas was ever a believer to begin with, he saw the miracles and heard the Word, but did he truly believe?
Do you have any scripture to back up your belief?
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:33:52 PM
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dyluck
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Yes, How do we find out? I mean, really I feel the lord may instil it on someone's heart to approach a troubled person.
jon on that verse John 10:28 was doing a little study on the greek on that one. And yes nobody can "snatch" greek "arpasei" = "take by force" you out of jesus hand. This would be in context of force you away from him.. that does not negate that fact that you can chose to walk away... There are lost sheep... and then there is fallen away (by your own choice). as you will see in the link I provided above.
Jimbofletch - i use the word Dude as a "theological term"
Dude - im not ascerting and damning everyone to hell here... Im simply making it clear that suicide... again you would be betting on the slow horse... doesn't mean the slow horse can't win, but the odds are low.
Did you read any of the versus i have been posting on this thread?! don't base you whole oppinion about what I'm saying of simply the last post.
Ok chrisovery lets switch it up!
Is anyone here reading this thread having difficulties with what we are saying or simply laid on their heart to just let us know how you feel in regards to your suicidal tendancies? I feel the lord wants us to support eachother here as a unit!
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:41:20 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dyluck
Did you read any of the versus i have been posting on this thread?! don't base you whole oppinion about what I'm saying of simply the last post.
I'm not generally used to being called Dude by someone 29 years my junior, but whatever floats your boat. I'm guessing you jumped into this thread without reading any of my previous posts either. But, then, when you have all the angles figured out, I suppose there's no need to check other's thoughts on a subject. But to bring you up to speed, I had the same opinion as you at your age. I also had a lot of uninformed misconceptions, not saying that you do. I'm just saying.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:43:21 PM
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dyluck
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
quote:
Suicide is willfull sin (i see the majority of people admit this) and honestly they go out of life willfully sinning
You presume too much. You cannot possibly know if they repented or not so you do not know if they left this life 'willfully sinning'.
I'm not sure if Judas was ever a believer to begin with, he saw the miracles and heard the Word, but did he truly believe?
Do you have any scripture to back up your belief?
Hi Kath!
Glad to see an admin!
Well, lets look at the Dictionary meaning of Suicide
su·i·cide /ˈsuəˌsaɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[soo-uh-sahyd] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -cid·ed, -cid·ing.
–noun 1. the intentional taking of one's own life.
2. destruction of one's own interests or prospects: Buying that house was financial suicide.
3. a person who intentionally takes his or her own life.
–verb (used without object) 4. to commit suicide.
–verb (used with object) 5. to kill (oneself).
I don't want to be to facetious or anything, but its not like invasion of the body snatchers and suddenly some strange thing is controlling you like a puppet and is forcing your actions against your will upon yourself.. I duduce by logic that suicide is willfull act and murder is sin ... willfull act of sin.
Do you agree by this reasoning?
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:47:27 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dyluck
I don't want to be to facetious or anything, but its not like invasion of the body snatchers and suddenly some strange thing is controlling you like a puppet and is forcing your actions against your will upon yourself.. I duduce by logic that suicide is willfull act and murder is sin ... willfull act of sin.
Do you agree by this reasoning?
You know that from, what, personal experience with clinical depression?
Sir, you haven't the slightest notion of what a clinically depressed person goes through. But you're not going to let that slow you down, right?
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:49:45 PM
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dyluck
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I grew up with a Paranoid Schizophrenic for a grandfather (lived with him for quite some time).
My father is a manic depressive.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:52:25 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dyluck
I understand what you mean by thoughts from others, but this is a biblical matter that needs to be discussed by the bible no?
It's been done already. Have you read through this thread? (Insert "NO" here)
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:53:06 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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Kath, Jimbo . . . thank you.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:53:34 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dyluck
I grew up with a Paranoid Schizophrenic for a grandfather (lived with him for quite some time).
My father is a manic depressive.
And still don't understand. Amazing.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 5:54:30 PM
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dyluck
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Ok Jimbofletch (like the avatar by the way!)
I get the hint.
God bless everyone on this thread!
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 6:02:29 PM
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Kath
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I know what the definition is of suicide. I asked you for scripture to back up your claims. Since you seem to be so convinced, you ought to have a few.
I also know that you cannot possibly know their thoughts as they take their last breath.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 6:23:59 PM
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jonfortean6
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I'm still not understanding why people are saying that you lose your salvation by commiting suicide. I mean, not only do I believe that you can't lose your salvation, but the verses that I am receiving about the opposing view have nothing to do with suicide.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 6:34:42 PM
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dyluck
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I think you are right jonforteen6 in the sense there is no verse in the bible that says "do not commit suicide"
But even if there was a verse, people will still say its ok.
I can only corilate it with murder. And from what I believe selfish ambition. Please don't rake me over the coals for that its just my opinion, and what does it matter anyway, murder is justified so then selfish ambition is too.
This forum title is = "is suicide forgiven" - Let's just answer this by "nobody can truly know"
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 9:27:53 PM
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chrisovery
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yes none of us truly know whether one goes to heaven or to hell. i think wisdom would be that we need to put faith in christ and stand by one another.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 9:32:46 PM
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jonfortean6
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But... I so understand what you guys are saying, but even if you call suicide murder, where does it say in the Bible that if someone is born again and he murders someone, he are no longer going to heaven?
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 9:35:15 PM
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jonfortean6
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Are you guys saying that if you die and there is some sin that you have not asked forgiveness for, you are going to hell?
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 10:12:49 PM
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delete123
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jonfortean6
Are you guys saying that if you die and there is some sin that you have not asked forgiveness for, you are going to hell?
Jonfort~
as a Christian forgiveness is part of our daily prayers and walk. The bible distinctly tells us, "We are to forgive one another, so that the Father will forgive you."
This doesn't mean you have to run to confession or a friend, you can confess it to God who is always with you. If He wants you to go to another person then that is between you and God.
Just like Jesus forgave us on the cross, he said: "Father *forgive* them they know not what they do."
Doesn't mean you personally have to forgive, but you pray that God forgives them.
And I'm making any sense to you?
I believe on this particular thread they are stating that a person who is contemplating suicide asks for forgiveness and completes the mission of suicide that Our God is plenty in Mercy and Grace to forgive them of that sin. Which according to the whole bible is a pardonable sin.
Ther is only one sin that one is not forgiven for and that is total rejection of God.
Before one contemplates a decision like this, it is always best to wait and see the light shine the next day, where New always begins and New plans can happen and New solutions to a problem can take place.
When suicide takes place the only answer one will have is when they get to the door.
I hope I helpd you in your question
CRH
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 10:28:05 PM
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whisperingwaters
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
Ther is only one sin that one is not forgiven for and that is total rejection of God.
Acording to the bible the only unforgiveable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and not rejection of God.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 9/17/2008 10:30:33 PM
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delete123
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters
quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
Ther is only one sin that one is not forgiven for and that is total rejection of God.
Acording to the bible the only unforgiveable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and not rejection of God.
Blasphemy the Holy Spirit is rejection of God. As the Three make one
God the Father
God The Son
God the Holy Spirit
3 which are *1*
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