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RE: 3 yr old and their behaviour - 2/25/2008 5:21:19 PM
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pbaribeault
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With the chair issue, I think you did the right thing. Your husband's desire to be comfortable in 'his' chair when he gets home is reasonable, and his request was kindly made. You were right to require her to get down and also to reprimand her disrespectful speaking and require an apology. Did you have her apologize to him, or just in general for her behaviour?
I also think your clearing up the crayons concept is a good one... But if I forget to give the warning that I usually do, then that's my fault. (Assuming that she mostly gets "NO"ish when not warned) I'd still give a warning, and just deal with it if the warning time put me in a hurry or whatever. If I was in a serious hurry I'd give a really short warning (30 seconds) with an apology and cheerful help from me to get the cleaning done at a good speed. This might prevent her need to say "NO" - out of surprise at the injustice of not being warned as she has come to expect.
But, even with less opportunity to get "NO"ish, it's still going to happen, so you need a strategy aimed at stamping out that disrespectful choice of words and tone. My advice would be to think back over "NO" situations and consider what she was thinking, why she was reacting, and what kind of a choice of words & tone would have allowed her to express herself without offending you & dh.
Try and narrow those ideas down to a few phrases that you are going to teach her to use. There are lots of options, depending on her language ability and the kinds of things that she is objecting to. (My girl says "One minute, please." but we are still working on always adding the please and a not-demanding tone for the phrase. She also says, "That not work for me." but she must have picked it up, because I didn't teach her that!)
When you have time sit with her and explain that shouting "NO" is rude, unkind and disrespectful. You don't like being shouted at, and it's important for her to obey you. Tell her that you are going to work together to cure her of the "No"s. Then you would teach her your chosen phrases, have her repeat them, sing them, say them while pretending to be an animal etc.
Next time she gets "NO"ish, calmly (with a smile) say, "I think you meant to say...(insert phrase). Yes?" If she says yes, encourage her to say the phrase and then respond as you would have had she said it in the first place. If she says "NO" again, tell her that "NO" is rude/unkind/disrespectful and that you won't allow it, and tell her again (firmly) your good phrase for the situation. If it goes downhill, respond with your normal reprimanding technique or consequences that gets her to 'sorry'. Then take her back to the spot where it all happened and get her to say the good phrase as if you had just started things.
Of course, this is hard work! So try to refrain from telling her something that she's likely to get "NO"ish about unless you are ready to follow through on all the steps. If you have your hands tied with Nath, instead of telling her to do things, just make statements like, "As soon as I'm done, we'll be going out. I hope your crayons are cleared up by then." or "I won't be happy if you make a mess with those things." or "You know that thing isn't yours." If she says, "No" to plain statements, she likely won't shout, and it won't be a disobedience, since you didn't tell her to do anything.
If she does shout "NO" when you can't respond properly, tell her, "Well, that was disrespectful." And then ignore it until you have some time. Later, you can say, "Remember when I said... and you shouted 'NO' and I said you were being disrespectful? Do you know what you could have said instead?" Supply the phrase, go back to the spot and go through it again so she can get the picture. Again, if things go downhill do your usual reprimand or consequences or whatever, then come back to re-play it.
Oh, and if she melts down during the re-plays, or if you get the sense that there is something other than defiance in her way of avoiding saying the good phrase, consider 2 things - She may melt down because she is disappointed in herself or ashamed (mine does this when reprimanded for hurting someone - she is too ashamed to say sorry and wants to go on as if it hadn't happened). Or she might feel too hemmed-in by the exact phrase, so you could offer her to say it her own way, and then let that be a choice of phrases.
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RE: 3 yr old and their behaviour - 2/25/2008 6:13:45 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6016
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
So last night hubby came home and walked in and said "Grace can I sit there?" (normally I tell her to get off "his chair" but I was feeding Nath and a little busy with him so I forgot). She shouted "no!" it was almost bedtime so she was tired and he had just told her off for something in the kitchen too. So he glared at me. I told her to get down and to not speak to Daddy like that. She said sorry and got off and came to me. But then I thought "well she was sitting there why does she have to move if she is nice and quiet"?
I also think that it is right for her to show respect by giving up his chair for him, especially when it is not long after he has come home from work. Plus he did ask her nicely rather than just telling her to get off it.
quote:
Other times she may be colouring in ( i can't see coz she is on the floor) and I will have given her a warning most times its nearly packing up time (unless I forget) and I say "ok time to pack up now" she says "NO!!" (whining, crying may begin). Then she says " I not finish this bit". So then I will say "ok, you can finish his hat then pack up time" and she listens. But hubby gets angry saying she shouldn't be able to negotiate at all, she needs to listen when I tell her something. So what do you do in those cases?
I think maybe that the only time she should be allowed to negotiate (so long as she does it nicely, without whining) is when you have forgotten to give her a warning. Maybe *you* can negotiate that with your dh, that if she gets a warning to pack up, then she has to pack up right away when it's time, but that if you don't give her a warning, she can ask nicely to just finish this or that bit.
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: 3 yr old and their behaviour - 2/25/2008 6:15:59 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1026
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: online
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Hmmm....
If the problem is the way she acts towards Daddy, perhaps you can do some specific training about respecting him in particular ways, like having her "Daddy manners" or something. If she can't speak nicely all the time, maybe she can use some specific reminders (and rewards) for keeping it together around him.
As in, "You can get frustrated with Mommy and I can help you learn to do better. Now let's show Daddy how nicely you can behave when you really try. You've said 'No' a few times today, and you did a good job learning not to -- but now no more until bed time. Do you think you can do it? I sure do!" (Lots of winks and smiles & high-fives when she makes good choices for Daddy)
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RE: 3 yr old and their behaviour - 2/25/2008 6:34:48 PM
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danas_mom
Posts: 551
Joined: 6/17/2005
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I just sat down and read through all of this thread. I admire your patience Nicole, I really do. I'd have snapped long before now in your shoes.
The thing that stands out to me the most is that your hubby seems to have this expectation that kids are supposed to come out knowing how to behave nicely in every situation, and when they don't it's because they're being disobedient. Sorry, but God simply didn't make them that way. It's up to us as parents to TEACH and TRAIN them - which is exactly what you're trying to do, but can't because hubby is constantly all up in your face.
My hubby doesn't handle babies and toddlers very well. He likes to hold them and play with them, but that's the extent of it. I can probably count on one hand the number of times he's changed a diaper, and we have three kids. For quite a while I spent most of my time frustrated and trying to get him more involved in their day to day care, but I finally had to realize that he wasn't going to change, and the only thing I could control was my attitude about it.
_____________________________
I will not sacrifice to the LORD my God burnt offerings that cost me nothing. ~ 2 Samuel 24:24
Spirit of Ashes Creations
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RE: 3 yr old and their behaviour - 2/25/2008 6:40:19 PM
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myka
Posts: 797
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Nicole,
You are doing a great job with Grace and Nath! I know it is hard when your expectations are not being met.
I would be careful about implying to Grace that there is anything "different" about relating to daddy; also, sometimes, we will think things in our minds against our spouses that are not helpful. Those thoughts can come out in our behaviours without our realizing that they are coming out.
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RE: 3 yr old and their behaviour - 2/25/2008 7:05:34 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1026
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: online
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I'm pretty sure Grace already knows there is something different about relating to Daddy. I'm thinking she'll probably appreciate some help in managing it. Besides lots of families have grown up with a grumpy-father-worthy-of-extra-respect model for a lot of generations. It's not very egalitarian, but it is workable.
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RE: 3 yr old and their behaviour - 2/25/2008 8:19:18 PM
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nicole6598
Posts: 4101
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Australia
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Manda-that is a good idea about negotiating with hubby, thanks
Pam-yes that sounds like a good idea to help her respect him and behave, I do it at times, other times I don't.
Sarah- that's a good idea about winding down time then pack up time. She gets very involved in what she is doing, esp if it is drawing etc and likes to finish things. Yeah that's what I was thinking when he said "can i sit there?" she was given the option of saying no. I usually say "Grace let daddy sit down to eat his tea now" and she will hop down.
dana-thanks :)
myka-thank you.
Pam- your last post hit me a bit, I didn't grow up with dad around so I guess it hasn't been modelled to me either how to work with a father who is like hubby is, so its all about me learning too. thanks
I did just hear from my sister and she said that our dad is pretty sick, he has cancer and now blood in urine and they can't do much about it or something, so I really hope things can settle down, i don't need another thing added to my load at the moment.
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Proud Aussie, Wife, Mother, Woman!
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RE: 3 yr old and their behaviour - 2/26/2008 5:12:48 PM
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myka
Posts: 797
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I know that generations have done the "grumpy daddy" thing. We did it when I was young. I didn't like it when my dad would come home and the "rules" would change because dad was home. And my dad was a good father, loving, attentive, and concerned for us as people. I don't think it gives a good message to the children when there are different rules when different parents are home (it is a bit of a disunity of parenting).
I think generally rules should apply regardless of which parent is home.
Nicole, I'm sorry that your dad is not doing well; that is really hard and stressful in anyone's life.
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RE: 3 yr old and their behaviour - 2/26/2008 5:20:37 PM
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nicole6598
Posts: 4101
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Australia
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thanks Myka
Well one good thing is I can see the health nurse about Nath today so hopefully that is one thing that can get sorted so then I can deal with marriage, dad and Grace (although I think she is pretty good and she was sooo well behaved yesterday for me).
_____________________________
Proud Aussie, Wife, Mother, Woman!
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