RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (Full Version)

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Soccer4Me -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 3:19:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigboytenor

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

1 Cor 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

It seems that there is a different appeal towards sexual sins. . .


Context, context, context. Paul is clearly referring to the issues, i.e. STDs, that can come from sin of a sexual nature. This, like all other sin, can cause decay in the body.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There is no degree of sin that doesn't deserve death, but God in His grace sent Jesus for all sin.


I agree that all sins end in eternal death. That is their result.

But, does God get more angry over someone who rapes and kills a child than someone who steals a quarter?


My personal belief is that God hates all sin equally but has a real problem with any so-called TV evangelists that leads people down the wrong path, astray, especially when they are taking their money to boot. Just a personal opinion.



jfaye -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 4:01:17 PM)

quote:

But, when sin is defined ("properly" according to Wesleyan tradition) as the willful disobedience to a known law of God, then it is not only possible, but expected, that we live our Christian walk in sinless perfection with the God-given ability to stop sinning.


But, ignorance of sin, does not constitute being sinless, it may allow us to say we do not
knowingly sin, but does not change our condition of sinfulness! I may not know that
I have cancer, but my unawareness of its' presence does not render me cancer-free and therefor
healthy--right?



figmentPez -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 4:33:14 PM)

James 3:1
Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

Matthew 11:22
"Nevertheless I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you."

Mark 12:40
who devour widows' houses, and for appearance's sake offer long prayers; these will receive greater condemnation."

John 19:11
Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."

Mark 3:28-29
"Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"

It seems to me that God most certainly does consider some sin to be worse than others. If all sin were the same in God's eyes, why would the Law give different punishments for different sins? Why would murder carry a death sentence, but theft only require repayment, if theft were just the same as murder?

Certainly, any sin, no matter how small, is enough to condemn us, eternally. And it is also true that "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." (James 2) But that does not change that God considers some sins to be worse than others.



drmark -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 4:47:45 PM)

quote:

But, ignorance of sin, does not constitute being sinless, it may allow us to say we do not
knowingly sin, but does not change our condition of sinfulness!
Once again, Janice, I am not arguing for perfect sinlessness in this life, I am arguing for sinless perfection. More precisely, I am acknowledging that God can make (and has made) the intent of my heart perfect toward Him, while still allowing me to suffer the results of the Fall (frailties, imperfections, human weaknesses) until He glorifies my body/mind/spirit in Heaven.

quote:

I may not know that I have cancer, but my unawareness of its' presence does not render me cancer-free and therefor
healthy--right?
Interesting analogy. Although I'm not an oncologist, I do know that our bodies produce many cancerous cells every day that we know nothing about. These potentially lethal cells are screened for and destroyed by our amazingly designed and created immune systems. We can and will live long and healthy lives despite all this "cancer" floating around every day about which we are ignorant. Is it a fair comparison to consider the precious blood of Jesus' Atonement to be the active immune system which covers our unknown sins? Then when God desires to convict us of these weaknesses, He will provide a more direct way to purify us from these known sins and give us the ability to stop them ourselves. Whatcha think?



jfaye -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 5:09:37 PM)

quote:

Is it a fair comparison to consider the precious blood of Jesus' Atonement to be the active immune system which covers our unknown sins?


Is it fair [:)]to take the analogy for more than I intended--that we can sin unknowingly and yet we are still sinful?

(edited to insert smiley!)[:)][:)]



Walker311 -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 6:03:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

You can be an expert at being sinless and go to hell.
There will be no sinless (by any definition) people in Hell!


Your comment has nothing to do with the point... again you miss the mark drmark!



bigboytenor -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 6:10:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jfaye

quote:

Is it a fair comparison to consider the precious blood of Jesus' Atonement to be the active immune system which covers our unknown sins?


Is it fair [:)]to take the analogy for more than I intended--that we can sin unknowingly and yet we are still sinful?

(edited to insert smiley!)[:)][:)]


jfaye, if you understand his viewpoint, you will understand you're probably dealing with a difference in the definition of sin.

According to the Wesleyan/Armenian/Nazarene definition, sin is "a willful transgression against a known law of God." Which merits the question: How then do we commit sins of omission according to James?



DaveW -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 6:36:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soccer4Me

My personal belief is that God hates all sin equally but has a real problem with any so-called TV evangelists that leads people down the wrong path, astray, especially when they are taking their money to boot. Just a personal opinion.


It seems that James agrees with you:

Jas 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.



DaveW -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 6:39:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigboytenor

According to the Wesleyan/Armenian/Nazarene definition, sin is "a willful transgression against a known law of God." Which merits the question: How then do we commit sins of omission according to James?
That would be according to this:

Jas 4:17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

That would be a sin of omission under the Wesleyan tradition. (BTW, I do not agree with that definition)



wawhoo73112 -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 7:33:27 PM)

sin - is "missing the mark".

And, If "hitting the mark" is what gains entrance into heaven, then it doesn't matter by how much the mark was missed then does it?

You still don't get in.

But, as a continuation and looking in the other direction,

are there going to be varying degrees of suffering in hell for the distance that the mark was missed?

If that is the case, then all sin is the same in that any sin misses entrance into heaven;

But if in the day of judgment Sodom is better off than the one who rejects Jesus, then all sin is NOT the same to God as well.

SO it is both[&o]



SonInMe1 -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 7:38:12 PM)

Where does Grace come into this for a believer?



wawhoo73112 -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 8:09:58 PM)

SonInMe,

Hi![:)]

Let me ask you another question in reply to yours......

How does the Father see the sins of a believer when they are covered beneath the blood of Jesus?



jfaye -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 8:12:05 PM)

quote:

How then do we commit sins of omission according to James?


I always understood sins of omission to be the failure to do what is right, as opposed
to actively doing what is wrong, but nonetheless as sinful.

I guess my point is--for anyone who thinks they can get to a completely sinless state,
even as a believer, there are sins of omission, as offered, and sins we committ unawares,
but nonetheless we are therefor not in a sinless state!

I also have the feeling that many dismiss some sins as 'not so bad' so they don't count
against a self-determined state of sinless-ness! Just my thoughts on the subject.

I have seen some attitudes of some (believers) who profess being sinless that really come
across as on the edge of haughtiness, patronizing and self-aggrandizing, that to me, is the
sin of pridefulness.

So, how can we get to a sinless-ness and avoid falling short, again, with pridefulness? It
would seem to me, that one of the aspects of sinless-ness is humbleness, and just living it out
without pointing out the achievement to others, especially if we believe it is the work
of God bringing us to a maturity, that being sinless would bring about an unwillingness to
promote our sinless-ness or maturity as something to be put on display, in a self-proclaiming
way! It would be enough, to be observed as spiritually mature, with no one being able to
bring a valid charge against the one, who has reached that level!

With all that said,

Are there sins, we often overlook and hold onto, that we underestimate their
damage and ability to hold us down, unawares, or are not necessarily clearly
spelled out in the word?

If so, what are some of those, in your opinion--and can you think of Scripture
that may be appropriate or which could apply or point to it?

Oh, and I'm much more interested in what the Word has to say, that defines sinless-ness or sin
than any denomination's statement! If said denomination or persons can provide scriptural support
for it, I'd be more interested in being made aware of that! I'd prefer to keep this thread denomination
free, if possible.I prefer the Word to speak for itself! [:)]

All of this interest in the topic is in keeping with my desire to sin less! That is a goal that is
attainable, I know, so how do we do that--without being made aware of what is sinful?

I'll start: How about sarcasm? Anyone think that can be sinful or damaging and not lining up with
Ephesians 4:29?

"Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth,
but only such a word as is good for edification (building up)
according to the need of the moment,
so that it will give grace to those who hear."



jfaye -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 8:26:11 PM)

BTW--I totally agree that Jesus' blood covers all sin! That is what I believe the word says
and I believe that believing that for myself has gained me His salvation. But--I'm addressing
the thought of some, that we can become SINLESS in a state that is required to further our
salvation!

So, if that is possible----how do we know we are 'there' if we can sin unaware, or by
omission? We may think we have it all covered, but be ignorant of the extent of sinfulness
in the human body even in and out of grace!

But--more than that, NOW, what I'm more interested in, is your thinking about some sins
that most over-look and dismiss as 'not so bad' or not on a list of the Bible, but as we know,
are still sin in His eyes that needs to be dealt with by us--to eliminate from our walk and help
us to sin---less![:)]!



wawhoo73112 -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 8:40:38 PM)

quote:

All of this interest in the topic is in keeping with my desire to sin less! That is a goal that is attainable, I know, so how do we do that--without being made aware of what is sinful?


JAYFE Hi! - WE don't!

It is Christ in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

The VERY INSTANCE we think we can do ANYTHING of ourselves, we have fallen from faith...just as Peter walked on water....

He did so by looking at Jesus,

and the INSTANCE Peter began to look at what "peter" was doing Peter began to sink into the waves!


Remember what David said in one of the Psalms:

"GOD, HE clothes me with strength and make MY way perfect"


Abiding in Him is UP TO Him, HE HIMSELF is the "way".

He doesn't tell us about the way, or show us towards the way....HE IS the WAY.


I don't know if any of this will make sense to you or not, it all depends on the Spirit.


Look at some verses....

"My salvation and my honor depend ON GOD"

"Apart from ME you can DO nothing"

"Take heed when you think you stand lest you fall"

Let us lay aside every weight, every sin which so easily besets us......

LOOKING UNTO JESUS.... THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH


You see, ANY step in our walk with God,

which is a step away from TOTAL dependence UPON God,

is a step which just took us out of faith,

and it is this "faith", this total dependence upon HIM for our salvation, that God calls our righteousness.


"for the righteous shall live by faith"


Again, I don't know if you are understanding what I am trying to share or not, but....

once you get it, His burden is light, and His yoke is easy, and His commands are not burdensome for us.


Lastly,

Paul said: "My conscience is clear, but that does not mean that I am without offense, the Lord is my Judge..."

And I believe that this is as good as it gets.

We can live being unaware of "offense", to man or God, and could even presume to be living 'sinless', but don't be fooled, we AREN'T.

So long as we live in a flesh, we have evil present with us.

But we live by the fruit of His Spirit, and the fruit of that same Spirit lists "SELF CONTROL" as one of it's attributes.....being therefore controlled by the Spirit is the way God clothes us with strength in order for our way to be made perfect.....

Not by a man's will, a man's power, or a man's strength, but BY MY SPIRIT says the Lord

Genuinely hope this helps, Bob~



jfaye -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 9:34:36 PM)

I agree with you, Bob, that the work we do is by His grace and in His power
but there is more to that because we are told to DO certain things, and are
told NOT TO DO certain others. Here is an example:

Also, from Ephesians 4:2".. in reference to your former manner of life,
you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance
with the lusts of deceit,

23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,

24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created
in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR,
for we are members of one another.

26 BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

27and do not give the devil an opportunity.

28 He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands
what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.

There are many more DO's and DON'T's regarding how we are to conduct ourselves and avoid
sinning, but I want others to join in the discussion with the examples they think of!

You may have misread my line about wanting to sin----less, not be sinless--not that I don't look
forward to being sinless--in His Heaven! [sm=biggrin.gif]



wawhoo73112 -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 10:02:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jfaye

I agree with you, Bob, that the work we do is by His grace and in His power
but there is more to that because we are told to DO certain things, and are
told NOT TO DO certain others. Here is an example:

Also, from Ephesians 4:2".. in reference to your former manner of life,
you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance
with the lusts of deceit,

23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,

24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created
in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR,
for we are members of one another.

26 BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

27and do not give the devil an opportunity.

28 He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands
what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.

There are many more DO's and DON'T's regarding how we are to conduct ourselves and avoid
sinning, but I want others to join in the discussion with the examples they think of!

You may have misread my line about wanting to sin----less, not be sinless--not that I don't look
forward to being sinless--in His Heaven! [sm=biggrin.gif]

OOPS, sure did mis-read that[&:]

Oh well, maybe some of what I shared with you in mind, will bless someone else[:D]

Good examples of the do's and don'ts.

The only problem I have had with them was seeing that they need to be done, and then trying to put them into force in ourselves by an act of self will, or "will power".

The results are as ineffective as the law of Moses was, for it was not founded in faith, but in works.

Following after love, includes them all.

And following after the Spirit guides us into walking them out, even when they aren't spelled out for us IMO.

Romans 8:4 NAS
so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit .

Peace to you, and I will shut up now[:D]

Bob~



drmark -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 10:21:06 PM)

quote:

quote:

According to the Wesleyan/Armenian/Nazarene definition, sin is "a willful transgression against a known law of God." Which merits the question: How then do we commit sins of omission according to James?
That would be according to this: Jas 4:17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
Thank you, DaveW, you beat me to it. We cannot commit a sin of omission if we do not know the right thing to do, can we?

BTW, I am not sure that Arminius ever made a public definition of the "act of sin". This is primarily a Wesleyan concept of sinning, and esssentially all modern Holiness denominations, such as the Church of the Nazarene, uphold this Scriptural doctrine.



jfaye -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 10:42:37 PM)

quote:


I always understood sins of omission to be the failure to do what is right, as opposed
to actively doing what is wrong, but nonetheless as sinful.


Mark--Please see my own quote above regarding 'sins of omission'!

Bob--not a problem--I think we all benefit from your postings so keep on keeping on
with them! Again, I agree with all you've said, including the following:

"And following after the Spirit guides us into walking them out, even when they aren't
spelled out for us IMO."

I guess I've been thinking that we have to agree to walk in the Spirit by making ourselves aware of sin, but
actually, even more likely, if we make ourselves very versed and absorbed by the word as a whole
praying to be filled daily with His Spirit, dependent on prayer--we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh
pretty automatically!

Good post Bob![sm=thumbsup.gif]Thank you![:)]



drmark -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 10:52:49 PM)

quote:

Mark--Please see my own quote above regarding 'sins of omission'!
And I would simply add "to be the failure to do what is known to be right". You see, it basically comes down to the attitude and intent of the heart, Janice. If we truly love God and our neighbor, we will not deliberately sin, by either commission or ommission.

Say, I've only seen one response to the inequality between a sin that leads to death and one that does not. Does everyone agree that John is specifically referring to the "unpardonable sin" or is there some other reasonable explanation?



wawhoo73112 -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 10:58:46 PM)

Thanks for the compliment on the post[:)]

Light DOES dispell darkness...automatically[;)]

He promises that if we draw near to Him, He will draw near to us.....

and when He does, the light of His presence may expose our "flaws",

BUT,

the presence of His Spirit, or rather our AWARENESS Of His presence dispells the domination of the flesh....automatically.

So, the key for me, is being able, by His grace, to abide in Him....moment by moment by moment.

God bless, bob~



jfaye -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 11:09:58 PM)

quote:

And I would simply add "to be the failure to do what is known to be right".


Oh, absolutely, Mark--that is definitely better phrased! [sm=thumbsup.gif] I should have seen that as a
better statement of what my understanding of the 'sin of omission' is! Thank you, for
clarifying it![:)]



FearoftheLord -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 11:18:16 PM)

quote:

Context, context, context. Paul is clearly referring to the issues, i.e. STDs, that can come from sin of a sexual nature. This, like all other sin, can cause decay in the body.


No where in this chapter does it say anything about diseases. That is your opinion.

I Cor 6 15-20
Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of a harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined unto a harlot is one body? for two, saith he shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Their is definately a difference in sins.



drmark -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 11:27:09 PM)

quote:

No where in this chapter does it say anything about diseases. That is your opinion.
And a weak one at that! Good point, FearoftheLord. There are numerous "sins of a sexual nature" which have zero relationship to STDs. Lusting for someone who is not your spouse comes quickly to mind.



FearoftheLord -> RE: Do you think All Sins are Equal? (2/18/2008 11:32:42 PM)

Luke 12 47,48

And that servant which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom men have commited much, of him they will ask the more.

These scriptures show a servant who didn't prepare himself when he knew he ought to will be beaten with more stripes than someone who didn't know.

They both commited the same sin but one will be beaten with more stripes than the other. Or one will have a greater punishment in hell.



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