Is Barack Obama a Christian? (Full Version)

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HansC -> Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 12:48:55 AM)

Is Barack Obama a Christian? I know that that is hard to evaluate. But in his book, and on the news, he said, "I am a Christian". Does he have Christian beliefs?

The reason I ask is that I am in discussion with an Israeli lobbyist group and some of their members are promoting the idea that because of his statements Obama is a Christian and therefore is representative of the Christian position.

Thoughts?

Hans



Okami -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 12:55:04 AM)

"Christian" is a new buzzword for this election. Despite the false email circulating about him being muslim and other nonsense, he really does claim to be Christian. But, he claims the church he attends embraces homosexuality, and he is pro-partial birth-abortion.



bigboytenor -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 12:56:52 AM)

A lot of people claim to be "Christian", but what do their words, actions, etc. say? That is the question.



krazyxsinner -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 6:11:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigboytenor

A lot of people claim to be "Christian", but what do their words, actions, etc. say? That is the question.



Amen



armydude -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 6:17:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansC

Is Barack Obama a Christian? I know that that is hard to evaluate. But in his book, and on the news, he said, "I am a Christian". Does he have Christian beliefs?

The reason I ask is that I am in discussion with an Israeli lobbyist group and some of their members are promoting the idea that because of his statements Obama is a Christian and therefore is representative of the Christian position.

Thoughts?

Hans
There is one person that personifies what a Christian should say and do. There is one person that is not only the example for Christians to follow, but is also the only real representative of the "Christian position". That would be Jesus. Everyone else falls short, and we will. If anyone wants to know the "Christian position" on a topic, looking to Barack Obama (or anyone else) will result in frustration.



greatdivide46 -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 7:30:02 AM)

I believe that Obama is a Christian as opposed to being a Muslim. But whether or not he's an actual born-again, living-by-the-Spirt Christian, I really don't know. But I kinda doubt it.



krazyxsinner -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 7:35:22 AM)

quote:

an actual born-again, living-by-the-Spirt Christian


that is the only definition of a Christian



wndrflymd -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 7:50:03 AM)

I agree with Krazyx! There is no, other way to describe a TRUE child of God. I also think that in today's society the word "christian" is thrown around a lot as more of a fashion statement or trend persay than a life actually personifying Christ. I think Obama believes what he says to be true about himself but I don't know that I believe he's saved. IMO



wndrflymd -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 7:51:55 AM)

Of course the truth of that lies between him and God right???????? I don't want to be his judge I am just going by what I see and hear.



DaveW -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 8:20:47 AM)

He was raised moslem, but now attends a United Church of Christ which is a very liberal denomination. As to being born again, it is doubtful.



dianetavegia -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 9:02:09 AM)

I also doubt his Christianity because of the information on his church website. You can decide for yourself.

http://www.tucc.org/
Trinity United Church of Christ Web site and the Black Value System


We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.



PolarBear -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 10:18:20 AM)

Doesn't that church reject the Trinity?



jbow -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 11:48:05 AM)

I hope so because if he keep's messing with Hillary he may wind up on a park bench talking to Vince Foster.

I'm really apprehensive about the future of our country with the likes of Obama and Clinton so close to the oval office. One, Obama has no record to look at. He has introduced one bill. It would give an additional .7% of our GDP to the UN to distribute to poor countries, (how do you spell corruption?). Liberals love to be generous with other peoples money.
Hillary, according to some is really scary and ruthless. Remember all the FBI files she gathered?
Both of them really scare me and I don't like McCain much better. I never imagined that I would ever be a McCain supporter but I guess I will have to support him because I think he would be most likely to appoint constructionist judges and that is my issue.

I cannot imagine what kind of judges Obama would appoint...

As far as Obama being a Christian... he say's he is but he worries me because we know how a man's life is formed by his experiences as a small child and Obama spent two years, as a small child, in a Wahabi school. AS you may know, wahabism is the most radical from of islam. I am NOT saying that he is a muslim, I am saying that he must surely have some sort of personal psychological tie to them because of his childhood experiences. It really distresses me that so many people support him because of the way he looks and speaks. They talk about hope and change but when asked cannot articulate what they mean by hope and change... they just say... change. It's sad.

J



Closie -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 1:27:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbow

As far as Obama being a Christian... he say's he is but he worries me because we know how a man's life is formed by his experiences as a small child and Obama spent two years, as a small child, in a Wahabi school. AS you may know, wahabism is the most radical from of islam. I am NOT saying that he is a muslim, I am saying that he must surely have some sort of personal psychological tie to them because of his childhood experiences. It really distresses me that so many people support him because of the way he looks and speaks. They talk about hope and change but when asked cannot articulate what they mean by hope and change... they just say... change. It's sad.

J


A Wahabi school trumps the power of the Holy Spirit? Wow...
How does Wahabi training compare to the training that the apostle Paul must have had that led him to treat Christians the way that he did? Any idea why Paul stopped persecuting Christians?
But more importantly, I wonder if John McCain is a Christian? No, I don't wonder. He, like me, has professed his faith in Jesus as his Savior. And that, for me, is enough welcome Him into the family of believers. I'm not the decider - Jesus is.

I thank God that I'm not judged on my actions before accepting Him. Heck, last I read in Romans, works weren't going to get me into heaven either. It's faith in Christ as your savior and repentance of sin that makes a person a Christian. Not race, not where you went to school, not what your mother wishes you'd believe, but simple faith in Christ. In Sen. Obama says he is a Christian, then I accept him as my brother in Christ.

I'm probably not going to vote for him for president, but I'll rejoice when we meet in heaven. My prayer is that Osama Bin Laden will be up there with us.



Jhud -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 1:57:37 PM)

The only way someone could actually make the determination if Obama was a Christian was if they had close personal knowledge of him and were able to actually witness the fruit of the Holy Spirit in His life. Beyond that, all we have is what He and others have said, and what we are shown, neither of which is particularly reliable in this highly manipulative media age.

So as voters, all we really have left is what he has done as a Senator, and what he has said he will do as a President - neither of which from my perspective encourages me to vote for him.



hawkfan428 -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 1:59:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Closie

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbow

As far as Obama being a Christian... he say's he is but he worries me because we know how a man's life is formed by his experiences as a small child and Obama spent two years, as a small child, in a Wahabi school. AS you may know, wahabism is the most radical from of islam. I am NOT saying that he is a muslim, I am saying that he must surely have some sort of personal psychological tie to them because of his childhood experiences. It really distresses me that so many people support him because of the way he looks and speaks. They talk about hope and change but when asked cannot articulate what they mean by hope and change... they just say... change. It's sad.

J


A Wahabi school trumps the power of the Holy Spirit? Wow...
How does Wahabi training compare to the training that the apostle Paul must have had that led him to treat Christians the way that he did? Any idea why Paul stopped persecuting Christians?
But more importantly, I wonder if John McCain is a Christian? No, I don't wonder. He, like me, has professed his faith in Jesus as his Savior. And that, for me, is enough welcome Him into the family of believers. I'm not the decider - Jesus is.

I thank God that I'm not judged on my actions before accepting Him. Heck, last I read in Romans, works weren't going to get me into heaven either. It's faith in Christ as your savior and repentance of sin that makes a person a Christian. Not race, not where you went to school, not what your mother wishes you'd believe, but simple faith in Christ. In Sen. Obama says he is a Christian, then I accept him as my brother in Christ.

I'm probably not going to vote for him for president, but I'll rejoice when we meet in heaven. My prayer is that Osama Bin Laden will be up there with us.



You hit the nail on the head, closie. Nice post.



Evangel70 -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 2:04:41 PM)

quote:

"Christian" is a new buzzword for this election.


I agree. The word "Christian" has been used to woo the evangelical right, since at least the Regan Administration. Whether or not, Barack is a Christian is ultimately between Barack and God since we are not endowed with the ability to look into the man's heart.

Ronald Regan, Jimmy Carter, George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Bill and Hillary Clinton all profess to be Christians yet they all have different political policies and opponents on both sides have questioned the validity of their professions of faith. Only God knows if ANY of these folks are actually Christian.

IMO, the political involvement of the religious right has reduced the name "Christian" to a political label like democrat or republican so politicians have learned to throw the "buzz word" around to garner votes from those who want a "Christian" in office regardless of what he or she will do to the country.



HansC -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 2:10:40 PM)

The way I put the question was not really well stated. I think I should have asked something like: Does Obama represent Christian values and the Christian position?

Only God knows his heart, I can only watch the mouth.

Hans



mik-mik -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 2:14:31 PM)

Me as a person could not possibly make that judgment, that is why we are suppose to see the Lord for ourselves, I bet if you asked the Lord he will reveal it.



Closie -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 2:15:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansC

The way I put the question was not really well stated. I think I should have asked something like: Does Obama represent Christian values and the Christian position?

I did come across an very intersting site, can you believe this:

Messiah of a New America

Hans


Since you're clarifying, can you explain what you mean by Christian values or Christian position?
As the question reads, without your clarificaiton, my response would be "I don't know that about politician so why would I have to know that about him".



HansC -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 2:28:26 PM)

Closie asked:
quote:

can you explain what you mean by Christian values or Christian position?


I mean the Christian position on salvation and the value we put on the blood of Christ. My point is that Obama says he is a Christian, and many will take him as representative of Christianity, yet he does not in many ways, believe those essential points of doctrine that makes a Christian a Christian. Note what he said in an interview.


"He added, "I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people, that there are values that transcend race or culture, that move us forward, and that there’s an obligation for all of us individually as well as collectively to take responsibility to make those values lived."

"The difficult thing about any religion, including Christianity, is that at some level there is a call to evangelize and proselytize. There’s the belief, certainly in some quarters, that if people haven’t embraced Jesus Christ as their personal savior, they’re going to hell," he told Falsini. She said Obama did not believe that he or anyone else was going to hell and that he wasn't sure he was going to heaven either. "What I believe in is that if I live my life as well as I can, that I will be rewarded. I don't presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die. "

Are these the statements of someone who represents the Christian belief?

Hans



Closie -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 2:37:04 PM)

Sorry with all of the questions -
1 - what's the source of the quote?
2 - what does that have to do with being president?

Ronald Reagan professed that he was a Christian yet he didn't attend church, had a poor relationship with his children, engaged in adultery and premarital sex (check his wedding date vs the birth of his and Nancy's eldest). Some Christians would say that RR was a bigamist because their position is that you should only one living wife. But what in the world does any of that have to do with his service as POTUS?



lightshineon -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 5:23:54 PM)

His church makes me wonder also. they have a same gender connection group.



DaveW -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 6:46:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PolarBear

Doesn't that church reject the Trinity?
TRINITY United Church of Christ??? I don't think so....

You may be mixing it up with United Pentecostal which denys the trinity.



krazyxsinner -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 7:04:03 PM)

quote:


Ronald Reagan professed that he was a Christian yet he didn't attend church, had a poor relationship with his children, engaged in adultery and premarital sex (check his wedding date vs the birth of his and Nancy's eldest). Some Christians would say that RR was a bigamist because their position is that you should only one living wife. But what in the world does any of that have to do with his service as POTUS?



According to the people that knew him, he did not become a Christian until 1981.



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