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beloved06 -> the cruelest kind of ppl... (2/23/2008 11:49:52 PM)

I'm sorry, but I firmly belive that some of the cruelest ppl you will meet is the religious, legalistic type. I don't know. I'm just really frustrated right now over seeing some of my Church friends treat others who aren't saved yet...and even fellow believers.

I'm literally sick to my stomach.
How are we ever going to get ppl saved or encourage believers to stand when the Church body acts this way?
Heck, seeing what I see from time to time, I wouldn't want to go to Church either if that is how ppl act.

WHY! WHY IS IT THAT CHRISTIANS THINK THEY'RE BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE!!!
We should be utterly HUMBLED.


I really could go on and on.
I am so mad...but also, terribly, terribly sad.



Kat_D -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (2/24/2008 12:04:48 AM)

Well, thats a pretty broad generalization. I know very few Christians like the ones you described. Exactly who are you talking about?



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (2/25/2008 1:42:17 AM)

beloved, as unfortunate as it is, Christians are still people with big issues. Though "legalism" is not a well-defined term, if it is actually applicable, it can be most disheartening. People are people. However, if they are truly walking after God, they should be getting better at some point. If only we all were getting better faster, eh?

The truth is that there are people in every group who seem to have the singular goal to make all the nice people hurl. While this isn't always intentional, there are always a couple. I guess the thing I would tell you is that people are going to be people, and it is good that you are standing up for those being attacked. Fight the good fight means more than just gritting your teeth and trying to live holy... it also means to fight for justice, righteousness, and for God's love to be made manifest.

Adam



kmangel -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (2/25/2008 8:08:09 AM)

Sounds like you have a passion that God wants you to explore. Where can you fit in His Kingdom to make a difference? As a believer, you don't have to be one of those cruel believers. Maybe what some of these legalistic types need to see is the grace that God has bestowed upon you.

There have been many times when I've gotten frustrated with other believers. God one day spoke to me about my frustration. He in effect said "You ask Me to work in and through you and then when I do, you get mad." In other words, walking the walk is not going to be easy. There will be opposition. Expect it. Don't get mad. Leave that to God. Just do what He is speaking to your heart to do and be glad that you have work in the Lord to do.



SD456 -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (2/25/2008 3:12:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beloved06

I'm sorry, but I firmly belive that some of the cruelest ppl you will meet is the religious, legalistic type. I don't know. I'm just really frustrated right now over seeing some of my Church friends treat others who aren't saved yet...and even fellow believers.

I'm literally sick to my stomach.
How are we ever going to get ppl saved or encourage believers to stand when the Church body acts this way?
Heck, seeing what I see from time to time, I wouldn't want to go to Church either if that is how ppl act.

WHY! WHY IS IT THAT CHRISTIANS THINK THEY'RE BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE!!!
We should be utterly HUMBLED.


I really could go on and on.
I am so mad...but also, terribly, terribly sad.


I have seen many christians like that. Just focus on being like Jesus and walking in Grace - that'll be a stronger witness to those around you who are being hurt by legalism than getting upset by the ones who do the wronging. Your light will shine much brighter when you are lit up with the grace and love of Christ, much brighter than some who would try to put works on other people's shoulders and people will be drawn to the Grace that is in you and will be encouraged to not listen to those who might be legalistic.



rapturefish -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (2/26/2008 9:59:07 AM)

I don't know, sometimes I think the worst ones are the ones closest to you who subversively drop you the moment you do something that puts their appendix out of joint.

But - there is wisdom in the saying that whenever you point one finger at someone, three fingers point right back at you (try a pointing hand and see how the last three fingers aim back). You're no better than they are in the respect that you too have your own set of failings.

These things are a challenge to dependence, to grace. If judgement and legalism are at work, then grace and mercy need also work to the point where it wins out. You can fight fire with fire and see how these things never get put out, or choose to treat people as they need and not as they deserve.

Of course there is always a risk. People do get hurt, people are campaigned against all the time. Maybe at times it is better to keep away from those people, or even from those churches. But if that is not what you want to see, perhaps sometimes you need to take a stand by deciding not to play those games.

The thing is, personally I've reached the stage where I'm pretty fed up with the church at large and may possibly never be happy with it ever again. But that shows up the ridiculous side of it - you can't cut off the whole church from you because you keep seeing its faults. You have to forgive the church and depend on the grace of God to enable you to do it, time and again. Jesus for some reason considers the church his bride, and that is a model to follow.



SD456 -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (2/26/2008 8:39:25 PM)

The thread title sounds so much like a song line to me. I just have to get it out of my strange system....

The cruelest kind of people that you know
Will be the ones who kick you in the toe;
when your dog just died
And it's raining outside,
There the cruelest kind of people that you know...... YeeHaw!!



BibleL7 -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/7/2008 12:19:51 AM)

Some times the Lord will put us in a congregation with prideful and judgemental so called Christians to teach us not to be like them or perhaps so that we can be the witness that others will see that they are not what Christ is about. These people can definitely chase away non-believers or new believers so the Lord will at times put caring Christians in that congregation to help those who are coming to know the Lord that they are not the norm but that the humble heart and servant is what He is about. Some times we are also there to gently inform the prideful judgemental ones to the truth and to see the error of their way not by becoming judgemental of them but to show forth the Love of the Lord even to them particularly when you would rather throw them off a cliff for misrepresenting our Lord is kind of a humbling experience to love them. Pray about it and pray for them and the entire congregation.

Just the opinion of a small town preacher



heavensmailman -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/7/2008 4:23:06 AM)

John-1:43 Jesus said: " Follow me."
Anyone who calls themself a Christian, should they not follow and obey what Jesus says?
John-13:34 Jesus said: " A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."
1st John-1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
1st John-4:20-21 If anyone says, " I love God, " yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother. Peace



doinkdom -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/7/2008 11:44:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beloved06

I'm sorry, but I firmly belive that some of the cruelest ppl you will meet is the religious, legalistic type. I don't know. I'm just really frustrated right now over seeing some of my Church friends treat others who aren't saved yet...and even fellow believers.

I'm literally sick to my stomach.
How are we ever going to get ppl saved or encourage believers to stand when the Church body acts this way?
Heck, seeing what I see from time to time, I wouldn't want to go to Church either if that is how ppl act.

WHY! WHY IS IT THAT CHRISTIANS THINK THEY'RE BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE!!!
We should be utterly HUMBLED.


I really could go on and on.
I am so mad...but also, terribly, terribly sad.


I know...we really hurt one another regularly. I think if we remember how much God has forgiven in us each and every day, we would be quicker to forgive the same in others.

I mean what has God forgiven in me that I cannot forgive in others?

I know God is the one that saves people, in His timing according to His will...but I want to be ready and available as His chosen vessel to answer His call.

We are legalistic because we don't truly believe that Jesus fully atoned for our sin...we think that our performance before God means more than that. That our actions are somehow more important than the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus.

It is heart-breaking for sure when you imagine the faces of people pressed against the windows of the church, looking in and anxiously pleading to come inside...instead, we banish them to the outside because they don't live up to man's interpretation of God's grace.



rcjames -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/8/2008 10:02:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

Well, thats a pretty broad generalization. I know very few Christians like the ones you described. Exactly who are you talking about?


I agree.

OP, what infractions are you talking about being committed?


Thanks
RC



CherishedbyGod -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/8/2008 7:40:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

Well, thats a pretty broad generalization. I know very few Christians like the ones you described. Exactly who are you talking about?


I agree.

OP, what infractions are you talking about being committed?


Thanks
RC


I'm not certain what the OP is referring to but I went to a Fundamentalist Baptist Church for 2 years.

I don't know if there can be any other "church" that is more legalistic. They think they are the only ones with all the truth.

They stand on street corners bashing gays with hugh signs and others with threats of hell for various things.

They say speaking in tongues is from the devil and even say things such as "be careful about those people that talk alot about Jesus[:@]


don't dare wear pants around them...Don't even wear a skirt that hits your knees! Oh, I could go on and on but, of all the churches I have attended the particular church I attended was the most un-Christlike I have ever attended..........

They literally drive people away from Jesus because, generally speaking they are very unChristlike in their judgements and actions.



doinkdom -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/10/2008 11:19:17 AM)

a generalized sampling of what I have actually "heard and seen" (or saw or witnessed...)

"You'll never be mature in Christ or grow as a Christian if you don't learn to speak in tongues."

"Being accountable to anyone but God is legalistic."

"So-n-so's daughter is pregnant. That would never happen to my daughter."

"He can't lead a men's group! He's got a alcohol in his past."

[&o] Father forgive us...



mcleod -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/10/2008 12:49:20 PM)

Yes, been to those gatherings where all of that stuff took place baptist and pentecostal. For some reason we seem to forget about the the correct way in which to live our lives. Like saying well at least I'm not like those pagans who don't have any ideal of who God is. Yet they have missed the mark in a lot of it.
Sure they don't dance and don't smoke or chew and go with girls who do. But they can do all of the sins covered in Proverbs very well. That God is very displeased about.



BibleL7 -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/20/2008 2:59:51 AM)

Cherished I hope your experience has not soured you against fundamental Baptist churches. It is sad that any congregation would feel that way I can however say that not all Fundamental Baptist churches are like that. As a minister of a Fundamental Baptist Church I can only speak to our congregation as not being that way, and pray that you are in a loving congregation now.

Just the opinion of a small town preacher



fallenstar -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/20/2008 8:54:28 PM)

There is someone else who though the same thing, when he was a child. His name was Brian Hugh Warner, and he went to youth group and a Christan school up until his junior year of high school. He was abused, molested, and rejected over and over, by Christians. Finally, he did go to a different school, made friends there, but he never got over his hate towards Christians, and eventually that hate was directed towards God. Now, the the boy named Brian has grown up to be one of the most outrageous Satanic rock-stars ever, and he goes by the name Marilyn Manson. I know that you feel like you could just spit on all those people at that poser church, but whatever you do, don't hate God. God loves you, and he is on your side. Remember that, and don't take it out on God, like Brain did. Don't hate all the Christians out there even though I know it's hard not to. I lost my faith completely one time, but I just thought to myself "Even if those people back there hate me, God loves me and I know he is there. I know he can hear anyting I tell Him, or ask Him, or thank him for". And Jesus came back into my heart. Don't kick him out of yours.



redeemedsaint -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/22/2008 8:20:09 AM)

I think it's basically we have forgotten where we have come from and once we do get saved, we change our focus to hang around our Christian friends instead of those "sinners." Jesus came to earth to hang around people like those instead of the scribes and pharisees. May we learn to follow his example.



gaylel1 -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/22/2008 9:40:01 AM)

I think another thing is that people being cruel on these fourms. We are also in the body of Christ, yet we don't know how to treat each other with respect and love when we deliver our opinions.


Look at the Current Event sections or other sections of the fourm and see what I'm talking about.


I believe too the guy who killed these people over in Colorado, he was rejected also. I believed the church reached out to him also--but rejection leads to doing crazy things like killing people. And we seeing it everyday because we don't know how to treat each other as Christ loved us.




Dancre -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/23/2008 10:00:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beloved06

I'm sorry, but I firmly belive that some of the cruelest ppl you will meet is the religious, legalistic type. I don't know. I'm just really frustrated right now over seeing some of my Church friends treat others who aren't saved yet...and even fellow believers.

I'm literally sick to my stomach.
How are we ever going to get ppl saved or encourage believers to stand when the Church body acts this way?
Heck, seeing what I see from time to time, I wouldn't want to go to Church either if that is how ppl act.

WHY! WHY IS IT THAT CHRISTIANS THINK THEY'RE BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE!!!
We should be utterly HUMBLED.


I really could go on and on.
I am so mad...but also, terribly, terribly sad.


((((((Hugs for Beloved)))))))) I know it can be tough to see the idiots rip over the unsaved. But you are a perfect example of what not to do and when you keep walking in love, others will see it and get convicted. I agree, Christians can be the cruelest folks on the earth. Sad, huh?

kim



SD456 -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/25/2008 3:16:16 PM)

I agree with Dancre. We each need to be so full of the grace, love and mercy of Christ that when the unsaved see it they are drawn to Jesus.

Forget about what others are doing. Just be different. People will recognize the difference and they will see the freedom and love you walk in as opposed to the legalism and religious spirit that others are in bondage to.

And maybe you can even help lead other christians out of their bondage to those things.



jennleigh -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (3/25/2008 3:30:16 PM)

quote:

I agree with Dancre. We each need to be so full of the grace, love and mercy of Christ that when the unsaved see it they are drawn to Jesus.


I believe this works on Christians just as well! Sometimes we need to be the light that draws the unsaved, as well as the light that shines on the right path for those who are saved, kwim?

There have been several times in my life that the actions of a true Christian have caused me to stop and take a long hard look at my own actions in time for me to realize how UN-Christlike I was acting. Thank the Lord for those people!!!



Tomb -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (4/16/2008 7:28:40 AM)


Hi, do you remember what the Lord told Lot and his wife to do? Don't look back at the city. Lot's wife looked back and the Lord turned her into a pillar of salt (Gen.19:26). Let us keep in mind what (Rom.15:4) & (1Cor.10:11) teach us.

In (Acts 5) we learn of the Lord disciplining two members of the church.They were struck dead by the Lord. The reason for discipline is found in (Acts 5:11).

It sounds like the Lord is a legalist. Naaman was told to go dip in a river seven times to be cleansed of leprosy (2Kings 5). Moses was told to speak to the rock and he struck it. B/c of this Moses did not enter the promise land (Numbers 20:12). The Lord told those who were bitten by a serpent and was dying to look at the serpent on the pole to be saved (Numbers 21:8). Jesus tells those in the N.T Law of Christ those who are baptized in water will be forgiven for their sins (Acts 2:38 ; 8:38,39 ; 10:34,35,48 ; 22:16) (Heb.5:8,9) (John 9:31).

The Lord tells his people to obey his commands (John 14:15,21 ; 15:10,14) (1John 2:4). Those who obey His will will be saved (Mt.7:21).


Legalism must be defined. In (Mt.23) the Pharisees set aside some commandments of the Lord and added the commandments of men to the things men must do. This is true legalism.

It is not legalism to obey the commandments of the Lord (1John 5:2,3).


2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


Watch - GBNtv.org


http://missionprinting.us/mp_newindex.html

Click on publications



in love tomb



colliefan -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (4/16/2008 12:56:34 PM)

Jesus came full of Grace AND Truth. Need to have a balance of both for a proper message to be conveyed.



WesP -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (4/16/2008 3:59:54 PM)

In reading the posts on this thread, I have to say that I agree with rapturefish. It has been my experience that one group of people is the worst. You come to trust a person with everything you have, and that person betrays you. It happens over and over in all of our lives. It may be a spouse, parent, grandparent, preacher, best friend, etc. Which particular one is not important. What is important is realizing that man will always let you down, so focus on God and forgive those who trespass against you.



prophet -> RE: the cruelest kind of ppl... (4/16/2008 7:55:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace

In reading the posts on this thread, I have to say that I agree with rapturefish. It has been my experience that one group of people is the worst. You come to trust a person with everything you have, and that person betrays you. It happens over and over in all of our lives. It may be a spouse, parent, grandparent, preacher, best friend, etc. Which particular one is not important. What is important is realizing that man will always let you down, so focus on God and forgive those who trespass against you.


i have just experienec what you have mentioned in the chucrh community when the leader exhibits a betrayal by becoming a hypocrite....leading you along, agreeing with you and suddenly kabooommm does a U turn and does exactly the opposite! Alas..... [&o]

And doing this through a most wonderful smile....[:@]



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