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The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 12:05:01 AM
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jacobwdowning
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Ok so here is the question of our time. The Emerging(emergent) Church, is it good or bad? I heard Brian Mclaren speak at the Willow Creek worship and arts conference. I didn't even know who he was at the time and ask my friend with me if the guy was a Christian.(Willow is known to have non-christian speakers at there confreneces) So I knew before reading anything about it that I was not crazy about him but the more I read the more I am fearful of this whole thing. And who is apart of it. It seems like any Pastor out there that is making waves is part of the EC. Some of the names I have seen thrown around with the EC are Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Erwin Mcmanus, Mark Driscoll, Mark Batterson, Dan Kimball, Donald Miller, some guy whos last name is Pagget(?spelling). So who is good and who is band and what things are they saying that are good and what things are they saying that are bad.
Anyone want to weigh in?
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 12:54:00 AM
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Kat_D
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Bad...but don't get me started because I think this thread will be closed. There are several other threads on the Emergent Church. I believe the most current one is HERE.
THIS site does a good job exposing the Emergent Church.
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 2/26/2008 2:37:25 AM >
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"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 12:59:31 AM
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crankius
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I think it is good to have an emergent thread in the general church folder (instead of just the ministry leaders folder). If they close this thread down, you can ask questions in the Doug thread I linked.
I hope they keep it open, actually, because a fresh thread can be good.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 1:20:21 AM
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1love1God1way
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It will probably close, but I will get my two cents in anyway. . .
Is it good or bad?
Yes.
Bad in the sense that there are many who have watered down the message so much it can't even be called Christianity anymore.
Good in the sense that there are some who have taken the true meaning of it, and brought the Gospel as it was intended into a new setting and the modern culture and made it real and relevant to people who would have otherwise ignored it.
Sadly, those people are few and far between.
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 2:29:12 AM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jacobwdowning
Ok so here is the question of our time. The Emerging(emergent) Church, is it good or bad? I heard Brian Mclaren speak at the Willow Creek worship and arts conference. I didn't even know who he was at the time and ask my friend with me if the guy was a Christian.(Willow is known to have non-christian speakers at there confreneces) So I knew before reading anything about it that I was not crazy about him but the more I read the more I am fearful of this whole thing. And who is apart of it. It seems like any Pastor out there that is making waves is part of the EC. Some of the names I have seen thrown around with the EC are Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Erwin Mcmanus, Mark Driscoll, Mark Batterson, Dan Kimball, Donald Miller, some guy whos last name is Pagget(?spelling). So who is good and who is band and what things are they saying that are good and what things are they saying that are bad.
Anyone want to weigh in?
You know, I find this quite interesting because in another thread on Willow Creek some time ago, I had done a little digging and realized that they were leaning towards the emergent movement. You have proved my suspicions were correct. You can find that particular discussion HERE (page 8 of the thread).
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 2:44:57 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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The emergent church has some intriguing ideas, but they are not grounded enough in the Bible for my taste. In other words, they are too open to receiving heresy into it's midst, because it scraps almost all ideas of boundaries on doctrine. So while there are some good aspects of it (ie, the missions focus, loving your neighbor, socially active), I don't think those positives are enough to rescue this one from the dustbin.
Adam
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 10:26:00 AM
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stateofgrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jacobwdowning
Ok so here is the question of our time. The Emerging(emergent) Church, is it good or bad? I heard Brian Mclaren speak at the Willow Creek worship and arts conference. I didn't even know who he was at the time and ask my friend with me if the guy was a Christian.(Willow is known to have non-christian speakers at there confreneces) So I knew before reading anything about it that I was not crazy about him but the more I read the more I am fearful of this whole thing. And who is apart of it. It seems like any Pastor out there that is making waves is part of the EC. Some of the names I have seen thrown around with the EC are Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Erwin Mcmanus, Mark Driscoll, Mark Batterson, Dan Kimball, Donald Miller, some guy whos last name is Pagget(?spelling). So who is good and who is band and what things are they saying that are good and what things are they saying that are bad.
Anyone want to weigh in?
It's important to distinguish between style and substance.
Mark Driscoll's church, for example, is somewhat "emergent" in style but the doctrine is very much mainstream/conservative evangelical.
There is a thread on Erwin Mcmanus in the church section here...while I'm not as familiar with him it appeared that many folks thought his doctrine was mainstream as well (I'm going to listen to some of his messages).
Rob Bell is more "out there" - he makes for interesting reading, but a mainstream evangelical is likely going to find some things to disagree with.
I wouldn't qualify Rick Warren as "emergent" - more of a holdover from "seeker sensitive."
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 12:14:07 PM
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HisCovenant
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I'm not able to find out enough info on the emergent church to have an opinion... which in and of itself is scary. Most info I find is fluff, not anything concrete. Because of that, I lean heavily towards "bad."
Thanks for that link to Appraising ministries, Kat. I look forward to digesting it.
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 12:31:27 PM
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mcleod
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Well I went to a gathering on Sunday that involved one of those fore mention persons in this thread. Who does not have water down doctrine. I could write that 99%percent of you that reply to these thread are doctrinally off the wall. Heard at the end of the teaching that God sent his Son to die and rise again. So that we can also do that to, spiritual. You have not study it all but came to conclusion from what you have read and blasted them.
Sometimes it looks like Saul did before he was blinded on the road and change his way of thinking.
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 1:15:02 PM
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Rick4Him
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Jacob,
I would say a good question to those who embrace the emergent movement is "why approach Christianty this way?" Is it because of the legalistist churches that they feel they need to move in such a liberal direction, or is it simply because they are so liberal that they don't revere the Gospel as truth?
Rick
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 1:27:31 PM
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mcleod
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quote:
I would say a good question to those who embrace the emergent movement is "why approach Christianty this way?" Is it because of the legalistist churches that they feel they need to move in such a liberal direction, or is it simply because they are so liberal that they don't revere the Gospel as truth?
We need to also think about the teachers in Christ day, who thought he was liberal nut.
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 1:50:17 PM
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Lycea
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From what I can tell, it really seems that passing judgment on the whole movement is not possible. Generally speaking, a lot of their methodology is great, but they seem weak in their theology. I think the judgment of good or bad would have to depend on the specific leader or group of people claiming the emergent church title. Obviously to deny the deity of Christ, the relevance of scriptural truth, or the absolutism of Christ as means for salvation are all bad/wrong/un-Christian. But a group with Orthodox theology using "emergent church" methodology to interact with the post-modern world may be just fine.
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 2:08:02 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lycea
From what I can tell, it really seems that passing judgment on the whole movement is not possible. Generally speaking, a lot of their methodology is great, but they seem weak in their theology. I think the judgment of good or bad would have to depend on the specific leader or group of people claiming the emergent church title. Obviously to deny the deity of Christ, the relevance of scriptural truth, or the absolutism of Christ as means for salvation are all bad/wrong/un-Christian. But a group with Orthodox theology using "emergent church" methodology to interact with the post-modern world may be just fine.
I think it's kind of a "don't throw the baby out with the bath water" kind of thing. How can we take their methodology without losing the gospel message? Some have crossed that bridge and I applaud them. They are what it truly means to be emergent.
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 2:24:20 PM
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Rick4Him
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
quote:
I would say a good question to those who embrace the emergent movement is "why approach Christianty this way?" Is it because of the legalistist churches that they feel they need to move in such a liberal direction, or is it simply because they are so liberal that they don't revere the Gospel as truth?
We need to also think about the teachers in Christ day, who thought he was liberal nut.
Mcleod,
I never said Jesus, McLaren or anyone else was a nut. I guess you misunderstood me. But I will say I believe Jesus is offended by these modern liberals who teach others their doctrine. First they belittle the Gospel and tell us Jesus isn't the only way. Either Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life or He's not. Either His word is the truth or it isn't-He never swayed on this.
Rick
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 3:08:39 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
quote:
I would say a good question to those who embrace the emergent movement is "why approach Christianty this way?" Is it because of the legalistist churches that they feel they need to move in such a liberal direction, or is it simply because they are so liberal that they don't revere the Gospel as truth?
We need to also think about the teachers in Christ day, who thought he was liberal nut.
Well, yes.. but the caveat is that we now have the full Word of God - so we have the litmus for what is liberal and what is not.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 3:28:52 PM
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HisCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rick4Him
Jacob,
I would say a good question to those who embrace the emergent movement is "why approach Christianty this way?" Is it because of the legalistist churches that they feel they need to move in such a liberal direction, or is it simply because they are so liberal that they don't revere the Gospel as truth?
Rick
I think it's some of both. The church is ripe for reform and revival with God-fearing Christians no longer accepting Man's Traditions as God's Way. There are also those hidden as angels of light attending the church who will do anything to weaken the Name of Christ. I can't tell which group the Emergent Church is. I have never been able to find any information on what they believe except that there needs to be change in the church. I agree, but change in what way?
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My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 3:35:37 PM
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crankius
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HisCovenant,
You should follow the Doug Pagitt link I gave earlier, and listen to his interview. That will give you a picture of how many in the emergent camp handle theology.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 3:38:16 PM
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HisCovenant
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Thanks. I've read a couple of thread for a while where they just seem to be arguing about nothing. I'll check this one out.
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-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 4:08:58 PM
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stateofgrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisCovenant
I have never been able to find any information on what they believe except that there needs to be change in the church. I agree, but change in what way?
Since it's not a completely structured, institutionalized movement (or a denomination) what "they" believe is going to differ between individuals.
A search on the topic on Christianity Today's website might give you some more information.
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America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 4:12:41 PM
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HisCovenant
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I may do that. Right now I am sifting through that thread (eta: the doug pagitt and emerging church thread) and going to look at the other links provided.
< Message edited by HisCovenant -- 2/26/2008 4:20:09 PM >
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My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 4:17:08 PM
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mcleod
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quote:
No offense, but spending a couple of hours at an emergent gathering does not make one an expert on the subject either!
For that matter you could attend any given church service where Jesus crucified and risen is preached and not know that they don't believe in the Trinity or have other severely flawed doctrinal beliefs.
No offense taken but Ive been in that gathering going on eight years now. Also I'm not calling him emergent but you have labeled him as such. And that he has a water down doctrine.
I'm also a covant member with that group. Which means every year I sign a paper in which they list their beliefs and if I don't agree with them, I don't sign it.
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 6:48:14 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
quote:
No offense, but spending a couple of hours at an emergent gathering does not make one an expert on the subject either!
For that matter you could attend any given church service where Jesus crucified and risen is preached and not know that they don't believe in the Trinity or have other severely flawed doctrinal beliefs.
No offense taken but Ive been in that gathering going on eight years now. Also I'm not calling him emergent but you have labeled him as such. And that he has a water down doctrine.
I'm also a covant member with that group. Which means every year I sign a paper in which they list their beliefs and if I don't agree with them, I don't sign it.
What group? I have no idea what/who you are talking about? The only church I mentioned in this thread was Willow Creek...is that what you're referring to?
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: The Emerging Church-Good or Bad? - 2/26/2008 7:19:36 PM
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jacobwdowning
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As for this Apprasing web page, I have read through alot of there material and find that they have nothing good to say about anyone. Maybe what they are saying is true but if they don't point us to good things so that we can see that they are not just complainers and fundametalists then what good are they. I would beware of that sight.
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