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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/5/2008 9:14:37 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
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I can see the dilemma. I like to keep informed about ministry opportunities in the church, though. And I don't expect the church leadership to be perfect either. If they don't call, and I need to talk to someone, then it's on me to initiate the contact. If I feel pressed in by to many calls, then it's on me to politely ask them to back off.
We're all adults, so such things can be communicated with diplomacy.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/5/2008 10:38:13 PM
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Nicole_Michelle
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
Honestly, it is hard sometimes for church leaders to tell if they should inquire further about why a person is missing church or if that would be too pushy. Some people want the phone calls, visits, and some people want to be left alone. If the pastor says he is available to talk with you, it seems to me that he is concerned about you. Recently there was a new couple in our church that a few of us ladies tried to befriend. The wife was coming only about once a month and her husband was trying to get her more involved. She was NOT happy that one of our members contacted her about a ministry she thought she might be interested in. She doesn't want to be involved and she wants to be left alone. So, what do you do?
I am glad you typed this out. Some people just like to be left alone so of course it would be hard for a pastor to know what to say/do. The only time I get upset is if I let someone know we need prayer and no one cares. But yeah, I would only approach people if I knew they wanted that or if I knew who they were. I wouldn't want to approach a perfect stranger and ask if they needed prayer/help because some people find that very offensive.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/5/2008 11:14:10 PM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5282
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What a lot of posts in just a short bit of time! Wow!
quote:
Cell Phones going off in church: A minor annoyance, or a big deal? Has it ever happened at your church? Did the pastor ignore it or not?
I'm in a new church (as of the first of this year). One of my first times to the church the pastor got a call on his cell phone just as he was beginning to preach. He answered the phone while at the mike. Told the person that she should KNOW to not call at this hour on Sunday. But he took the call because he saw on call display who it was. Our church is in a very difficult neighbourhood full of prostitutes, gangs, crack houses, sniffers and the homeless. The person on the phone was a woman the pastor had been working with who was calling to say that she had finally gone to ... the word escapes me but a place to get rid of her drug addictions. He actually held the phone to the mike so we could all hear her and then we clapped and cheered for her decision to get clean. I thought that was cool.
quote:
What about the rest of you ladies? Does your church find out why you didn't show up? Do you like it? Would you like it if they did? I think it really depends on the church and the attitude of the leadership. Some churches are very controlling and a call to see why you've missed is a control issue. Other churches are very caring and call simply because each person matters to them. I'm in my fourth church in four years (long story--the first of those four I was in for 25 years before leaving). In each church I would have no problem getting a call expressing concern that I'd been absent. Mind you, I've never taken the initiative to make such calls myself, even in the church where I spent so many years. But this topic prompted me this evening to e-mail a friend at my new church (who's been there much longer than me) to say I missed seeing her yesterday.
quote:
We attend a Vineyard, and I grew up in the Vineyard/Calvary Chapel world.
Mrs.Wifey, I haven't seen too many Vineyard people here in the forums. My new church is Vineyard (as were the last two but, as I said, that's a long story). I love the Vineyard! I walked into the church I'm now in and it felt like I had come home.
Friendly churches. Each of the churches I've been part of have been very friendly. The second church was a Vineyard house church with an average age of 23. I was 49. I was welcomed as if I too was a 20-something. The pastors were my age but never attended any of the social events the "kids" organized so when I started going to them they were very pleased. I'm still in touch with many of them. In the first and third churches, I was very involved in leadership and made it a point to welcome anyone I saw who was new. I liked doing that. I think it's important.
I remember once when I was travelling, tenting on the way. I wanted to go to church and had no idea where to go. Since I was camping, I was dressed very casually. I wound up in a church where, I guess, this was frowned on. Not a single person greeted me and when an altar call was given at the end of the service, asking people in need of prayer to go to the front and I went, it seemed no one wanted to pray with me. When I left, again no one said hello. Strange. On the other hand, the pastor did respond to the visitors' card I filled out and sent me a lovely letter, even though he would have realized that I lived 14 hours away.
quote:
The worst is when someone comes up to you and asks if you are new to the church and you have to tell them you have been coming for weeks
I remember one time where I greeted a woman I had never seen before. I'd probably been going to the church for about 15 years at that point. It turned out that she was not only a regular attender but the step-mom of one of the preachers in the early days and had been around for a long time. Oops!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/5/2008 11:17:07 PM
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TammyIsBlessed
Posts: 1478
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I know I'm WAY behind on this but I wanted to comment on the predestined time to die conversation way back.....
God knows when we will die, but I don't think that we always die according to what His plan would be.
For ex - abortion. Obviously that's not God's plan. And if all those babies had not been aborted, I really don't think all those women would've miscarried.
Thoughts?
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I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do. Helen Keller
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/5/2008 11:23:43 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
Honestly, it is hard sometimes for church leaders to tell if they should inquire further about why a person is missing church or if that would be too pushy. Some people want the phone calls, visits, and some people want to be left alone. If the pastor says he is available to talk with you, it seems to me that he is concerned about you. Recently there was a new couple in our church that a few of us ladies tried to befriend. The wife was coming only about once a month and her husband was trying to get her more involved. She was NOT happy that one of our members contacted her about a ministry she thought she might be interested in. She doesn't want to be involved and she wants to be left alone. So, what do you do?
I guess maybe just take that chance; I think it's worth it-- not for those who don't want it, but for those who are needing it. If the ones who don't want it get an attitude, just take that as a sign to back away. It seems unfair for them to "ruin" it for everyone. I know it happens in my church...just from what the pastor says. If the person doesn't want to be contacted again, just pray and don't contact anymore (unless they change their minds I guess).
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/5/2008 11:35:24 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4871
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
I walked into the church I'm now in and it felt like I had come home.
It's cool, isn't it? That is exactly how we feel at our church. We love them because it's such a "come as you are" type of church. We also have a HUGE variety of incomes, races, and ages which makes it easier to feel "accepted", IMO.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/5/2008 11:48:41 PM
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magdaleine
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Yeah, it's really cool. Our church is in the middle of the worst neighbourhood in the city and those who attend reflect that. Yesterday the bouncer brought the pastor a bottle of Listerine he'd confiscated from someone. Listerine is used as a cheap form of alcohol. The bouncer's job is to enforce the rule that you can't come in intoxicated, high or using though they do slip in anyway. I remember one time the smell of sniff was very strong and I've seen more than one person weave a crooked line through the back "aisle." This bouncer is new (not new to the church, just new to the job) and so I guess he wasn't quite sure what to do with the Listerine he found. After giving it to the pastor, his next job was to escort the thief (the bottle was the church's--why they have a large bottle of the stuff I don't know) out the door. The pastor admonished him to do it quietly and gently and to tell the man that he was most welcome to come back for coffee and cake when the sermon was over. I liked that.
Yes, we have a great mix too--the homeless and the suburbanites, the native and the European, infants to one man who was called up to the front one Sunday. He's 89 years old. His parents are still living in their own home. I would say that regarding age, the largest age-group is the 20-somethings which is really cool. You know a church is alive when you've got lots of that age group with you.
I knew for sure this church was where I'm staying was when a week of prayer and fasting was declared and I went to the nightly prayer meetings. These people know God. So refreshing!
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Maggie
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/6/2008 12:07:58 PM
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uponeagleswings
Posts: 1628
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From: Out here in the desert
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
Honestly, it is hard sometimes for church leaders to tell if they should inquire further about why a person is missing church or if that would be too pushy. Some people want the phone calls, visits, and some people want to be left alone. If the pastor says he is available to talk with you, it seems to me that he is concerned about you.
This I know, and I understand that he has lots of people under his care. I do know that he would meet and talk with me/us if I made an appointment. I think DH (and I) is more frustrated with the fact that no one from our small group has reached out to us outside of the 2x/month that we meet.
I tend to think its better to err on the side of reaching out to people, unless you get clear signs to back off.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/6/2008 2:04:03 PM
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magdaleine
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PeculiarLady (is it Sarah?) I know this only from what one person told me. I haven't actually seen rules like that and I may have misunderstood what I heard. The church does have a ministry to the drunk and the high. That's the whole point of the church and there are many ministries in that regard. There is even a newly constructed apartment on the third floor of the building to help those wanting to get off the street. It has lots of rooms for those living there, off a large main common room and kitchen. A church couple live there and oversee it. The pastor is often walking the streets and getting to know the people there. There are several drop ins for the folks in the neighbourhood and something for the kids of the neighbourhood. In addition the church runs a farm out of the city that I think is also used to help people get off the streets.
I don't know but I'm guessing that one of the problems of having the drunk or high there is that brawls could break out between them. Since I'm still new there, I don't know all the ins and outs and whys.
One Sunday about a month or so ago, the pastor called up a woman to the front. Two years before, she was a prostitute plying her trade beneath the pastor's office window. She became a believer and wanted to get rid of her crack addiction so she was given a room upstairs in the apartment I mentioned. They fixed her room up all pretty to make it like a princess's room with pink crepe and such and when she went to bed, on the other side of her closed door slept three burly but godly men. Whenever she started out the door to go find a fix, the three men would wake up and pray with her until she was able to back into her room to sleep. She's now been crack free for six months (she didn't tell her whole story) and is planning to study this fall towards becoming a pastor. This church definitely has a ministry to the drunk and the high.
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Maggie
Ask me about my book. It's now available online!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/6/2008 2:34:57 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
I don't know but I'm guessing that one of the problems of having the drunk or high there is that brawls could break out between them. Since I'm still new there, I don't know all the ins and outs and whys.
That is why our church does not allow them in the building. We also have a pretty stringent security team after the shootings at New Life Christian Church, which is only about 45 minutes away from us. We also have ministries to people who do want to get clean, they can attend Celebrate Recovery, or they can be referred out for counseling or rehab.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/6/2008 2:39:03 PM
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magdaleine
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Sarah, I'm glad I was able to explain well enough so you understand.
Mrs. Wifey, what city do you live in? If you don't tell, that's fine. I'm just curious since you attend Vineyard.
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Maggie
Ask me about my book. It's now available online!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/6/2008 6:18:32 PM
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myka
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We used to have a lot of friends/business associates that went to the Vineyard church, and we went to some of their events. I always really enjoyed the atmosphere there.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/6/2008 8:07:18 PM
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magdaleine
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Thanks for the answer! I had to find Aurora on google maps. I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba. David Ruis started this church. Never heard of Danny Daniels.
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Maggie
Ask me about my book. It's now available online!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/6/2008 8:09:57 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4871
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Oh, I love David Ruis' music, I grew up on his stuff, lol.
Danny Daniels
My Dad got saved during the Jesus Movement of the 70's, Danny Daniels was one of the first woship leaders/writers that he remembers from that time. He leads worship at our church once or twice a quarter and he definitely has an anointing.
< Message edited by Mrs.Wifey -- 5/6/2008 8:25:07 PM >
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/6/2008 8:29:05 PM
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magdaleine
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thanks for the link! He sounds like a cool guy.
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Maggie
Ask me about my book. It's now available online!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/7/2008 10:14:47 AM
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LaurainAL
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Kat: I think it is a marketing ploy and it sometimes rubs me the wrong way too.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/7/2008 11:44:07 AM
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lexie
Posts: 2959
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
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quote:
The worst is when someone comes up to you and asks if you are new to the church and you have to tell them you have been coming for weeks and have even talked to them before.
That happened to Dh's best friend. The pastor approached him one day after service and said "oh you're new here" and then introduced himself. Our friend had been attending the church every week for the past 5 years!
It's not that he didn't make himself known, it was just the pastor's fault for not paying attention to his congregation.
Maggie - as I'm reading you talk about your church and the city, I was thinking "she must live in Winnipeg" (I knew you are from Canada but didn't know where). That is awesome that your church is there to do such things, I know there are a lot of people in your city who need the help.
I live in one of the at risk neighbourhoods of Toronto, and there are some great ministries here, but I'm not sure they do enough, or understand the working of the neighbourhood. While my church isn't in the neighbourhood, I'm hoping we can gain the capacity to reach out here one day.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/7/2008 11:59:10 AM
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magdaleine
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Hi Lexie! What was the clue that gave away my city? (I'm curious.) And yes, there are too many people here who are in great need.
Not all churches are equipped (in a variety of ways) to reach out to those at risk. The church I was in for 25 years tried and tried to reach out to the neighbourhood and was never successful the way my current church is. I think it had to do with the mix of people already at the church. The congregation consisted primarily of the well-educated. The church was (is) in a depressed, blue-colour neighbourhood. The intentions of the congregation to reach out were great but when neighbourhood people started attending, the gap was so big that they never stayed long. In one way, it's very sad but on the other hand, it's not just the disenfranchised and those at risk who need God. There need to be churches where new-comers in any socio-economic group feel comfortable. I think it's awesome that my new church has an excellent mix of everything but I suspect that that is rarely achieved by most churches.
If you're interested in reaching out to the needy in your neighbourhood, perhaps you could link up with a ministry that's already serving there and find a way to get involved.
That's very sad about your friend and the pastor. I went up to the pastor after I'd been attending a bit over three months and introduced myself to him. But I did have an agenda. I want to walk in the neighbourhood of the church to pray for it and also to get to know the ebbs and flows and some of the people--especially those on the streets. Because it's got a reputation for being an unsafe place to be, I thought it prudent to ask if there were things I should or shouldn't do in regards to my walking.
I was amused by something. I had just had my hair cut and was wearing a new red sweater with big, red dangly earrings (a new look--I'm trying to escape frumpiness) so one of the things the pastor said to me was, "You look wealthy," meaning, I suppose, that I looked that way compared to those in the neighbourhood. In other words. dress down. About a month later, another of the pastors came up to me and asked if I was new. I told him I've been attending since January. "Do you live in the neighbourhood?" I guess I had the frumpy look back that day, LOL
< Message edited by magdaleine -- 5/7/2008 12:13:56 PM >
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Maggie
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/7/2008 2:29:44 PM
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KatMack
Posts: 1074
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From: Along the Canopy Roads
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quote:
ORIGINAL: InBetweenDreams
Maybe the realtors who started the company are Christians? I have never seen the fish used for advertising so I'm not much help.
I'm hopeful that they are Christians because this is obviously an ichthus (and the company's name is Heritage or something similar... nothing marine about it). We see a lot of companies around here that incorporate an ichthus into their advertising. It just strikes me as an attempt to get more business ("I'm a Christian! Use me!") than anything else. I guess the use of our faith as a marketing ploy just bugs me.
--Kat
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"God will do what God will do. What I'm responsible for is to believe he's all he says he is and obey what he tells me to do. " -magdaleine
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yup...I agree with that. 
