RE: Kicka, part 3 (Full Version)

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LaurainAL -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/7/2008 4:46:41 PM)

What bugs me is the people who flame me for working but then take government benefits that I help pay for. (Not you Donna as I know you have never said this).



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/7/2008 5:33:52 PM)

quote:

What bugs me is the people who flame me for working but then take government benefits that I help pay for. (Not you Donna as I know you have never said this).
[/quote/]


The following words intended to be out of quote:

That reminds me of my pastor in college. Not that he took government aid, he didn't, but he was very loud both in the pulpit and out, about how women should NEVER work outside the home, but he was also ADAMANTLY against taking state medical benefits (we call it Medi-Cal here in CA, in GA I'm sure they called it something else, I'm sure each state has its own name).

Well, hello, for some people it HAS to be one or the other. The laugh is on him now anyways, because now his wife teaches part time at a learning center. Go figure.



TwinCityGirl -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/7/2008 5:33:55 PM)

I have two brothers who smoke like chimneys and they are both poor. I often wonder if they smoke because they're poor or if they're poor because they smoke?

I do NOT think that of other smokers, though -- I just know the circumstances of my brothers' lives -- so I am not saying that of all smokers.

I disagreed with the taxes on cigarettes being 50 batrillion dollars per carton. Why not kick a person when they're down? How many times have my brothers tried to quit? My one brother quit cold turkey for years, met his wife, had a child with her, she left him when the baby was 6 months old and he started up again from the stress of being without his son (who is his entire heart).

If you really want to get me riled up, let's talk about child support and how it is meant to strangle the life out of a man while OFTEN TIMES (but not in all cases, of course) the woman is allowed to get by with not having the father see the child, not having to have a job, getting free legal aid, free health care for her and the baby and free schooling.

All the while the man gets ripped to shreds for "making a baby" --- um, SHE DID, TOO! Where is his free health care, schooling so he can get a better job? GOD HELP THE MAN who has a child in the child support system and then has the "nerve" to go get married again and have a child(ren) with his wife. Can you THINK of a more vile man that that? (read sarcasm there)

I hate that my brothers (and one SIL) smoke -- I really do. But both of those brothers have one child in the child support system (one brother was married/then divorced -- his wife physically abused him; the other brother had a child with a long-time girlfriend and they broke up when the baby was one) and my brothers have been raked over the coals again and again for having children with these people. THEY DO PAY CHILD SUPPORT. They pay PLENTY in child support. PLENTY. But now my divorced brother is behind so guess what? They suspended his drivers' license! Oh, THAT'S a smart idea! Let's take away his ability to get to work! Bingo! Problem solved!!!!! I'm sure he'll be able to make money while sitting at home without a vehicle.


Morons write these laws, I am not kidding you. MORONS. Yes, I do feel that strongly about it. My divorced brother is an independent carpenter and he is so thin, sometimes he goes without food, people. WITHOUT FOOD. But yeah, it's a great idea to take his license so he has to figure out how to get my parents to get him to his job sites. Not going to work = no pay.

I am infuriated. My brother is gaunt, we all pitch in to help, he hasn't seen his son in probably 7 years (and his ex-wife does NOT have to tell him where she has moved to -- which he helps pay the living expenses for).

Infuriates me. I can feel my body just tensing up thinking of it. This is my medical-problems brother who really shouldn't be working at all because he has a catastrophic illness but he BELIEVES in working very, very hard. He's not perfect, but he doesn't get a financial handout from ANYBODY except his own family members.

So he's a little stressed out, keeps on smoking, and they nail him for that, too. Thanks, tax people! Why don't you just find out where he lives and do him in and get it over with rather than taking him bit by bit by bit? (Yeah, it makes me feel like that is what they are doing -- especially with child support. If I could fast forward in time and make his kid 18 years old I WOULD DO IT IN A HEARTBEAT.)

Sorry to get riled up. You can skip my post if it's too much, hack it down, but I love my brother deeply (and you would too if you knew him) and I hate seeing him choked out by life. He has post-secondary schooling in carpentry (and excelled/honored in that) and he works so hard for so little money and some people rip him off by not paying him/not paying in full.

Yeah, there are going to be A LOT OF PEOPLE who are going to stand before the Lord one day and explain their rationale for their treatment of my brother. I really do feel that as my brother is slightly a "vulnerable adult" due to his accident years ago and he loves the Lord.

One of my daily tragedies. My whole family's. I know there are others here in this type of boat, and others on the other end that haven't gotten a dime in child support. I'm sorry all the way around for all involved, but I am sick and tired of the implication that because my brother had a child with his wife, got divorced and is in the child support system that he has been out there fathering a bunch of kids and not being responsible. His son is his whole heart. Gets me teary-eyed thinking of it.

Jeanie

Edited to add: my brother's carpentry schooling was before he met his wife. He did NOT and has NOT ever gotten a dime from the government for schooling. My parents paid for that training in place of him going to college since that was what he was more interested in.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/7/2008 5:45:22 PM)

Twin City girl, my situation isn't near as severe as your brother's, but for a while I had state health insurance, and people were SO judgmental to me for that, even though during the time I had it...

I WAS employed at various jobs, they just did not have health benefits.

I tried to buy health insurance 20 times over, but I kept getting turned down due to preexisting conditions.

When I did FINALLY get accepted by a company that was designed for people who had been turned down by everyone else, it cost me $363.00 a month--I kept it for a while, but it was WAY too much out of my budget.



Now I stay home with my handicapped sister, and get pay and some (not extensive) medical benefits through the state. I get judged for that too, even though, in my opinion, disabled people are one of the main people it should be for. My sister is VERY disabled..28 yr. old, but at a 4 month level.



bride48 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/7/2008 6:14:10 PM)

I think it's wonderful that you stay home with your sister!



ThursdaysChild -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/8/2008 3:52:55 PM)

Yep, it takes a certain amount of incompetence to get a job in the government...and even more to get elected!



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/8/2008 5:10:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels

quote:

What bugs me is the people who flame me for working but then take government benefits that I help pay for. (Not you Donna as I know you have never said this).
[/quote/]


The following words intended to be out of quote:

That reminds me of my pastor in college. Not that he took government aid, he didn't, but he was very loud both in the pulpit and out, about how women should NEVER work outside the home, but he was also ADAMANTLY against taking state medical benefits (we call it Medi-Cal here in CA, in GA I'm sure they called it something else, I'm sure each state has its own name).

Well, hello, for some people it HAS to be one or the other. The laugh is on him now anyways, because now his wife teaches part time at a learning center. Go figure.

I know this is off topic, but just wanted to tell you why your quote box didn't end where you wanted it to,.......inside the brackets (the one I bolded up above) you have "/quote/"....it's supposed to just be "/quote".


I heard today that TX is trying to get legislation passed that will make it harder for people to get divorced. They will either have to take a marriage class, or will have a mandatory 2 year wait for it to be finalized!!!!



bride48 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/8/2008 5:35:21 PM)

Hope that legislation in Texas passes!



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/8/2008 5:59:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bride48

Hope that legislation in Texas passes!

I hope so too!!!!! Sounds like a lot are behind it...so it very well could pass!!!



nicole6598 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/8/2008 6:31:06 PM)

I think we already have that law here in Australia unless you have been married less than a year (i have a friend who is getting divorced and its only been 11 months).

LOL Sarah I love your signature!!

Just an update on my whole church thing. My friend and I who have been concrened have noticed a few other, quite a few are also concerned. Last night hubby said to me he didnt want to be on the Board anymore because he didn't totally agree with the Pastor. I didnt share everything I was feeling, but we had a good chat and God really is moving on hubby and its so wonderful to see. SO thanks for the discussion about churches etc before. It has given me encouragement and some peace.



McGuinessMagee -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/9/2008 6:47:40 AM)

I thought it was 12mths Nicole, but I may be wrong.

Taxes on luxuries. My thoughts run along the line that, if the govt weren't making so much money off cigarettes, would tobacco be as illegal as marijuana?

After all, you can get more time for growing your own tobacco than you can for having a marijuana crop in your backyard.

Suicide and salvation?

This has been a topic which has come a little too close to home this week. I tend to be on the side of it not being an unforgivable sin, but it's so sad to see someone lose their hope in God like that.

Kylie[sm=silly.gif]



Brandy -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/9/2008 12:49:08 PM)

Kylie I'm sorry you have had it hit so close to home recently.

My mother in law basically killed herself with all her prescription meds she was on this past Christmas. It's been hard to watch my husband process what she did to herself. He goes from angry to sad to understanding to not understanding how she could let it happen to herself.

For me.. it's not an unforgiveable, I actually think it's a pretty pitiful stance to be in. And I don't mean the bad pitiful, I mean the "I'm so sorry they felt that was their only choice" pitiful if that makes sense.

I had a high school classmate kill himself 6 months after a fall in basic training left him paralyzed from waist down. He felt like he couldn't honor his father and follow his footsteps into Ranger school therefore he must be worthless. It was devastating for the entire family and community.

It really is about hope and choices. My MIL chose to take the meds and refused help repeatedly to get into treatment or a better doctor that wasn't just taking her money for a written script. bleh.



LaurainAL -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/9/2008 1:12:53 PM)

I believe that the only unpardonable sin is rejection of Christ. Suicide is not an automatic ticket to hell. I have heard that many times but it is just not true.



Mrs.Wifey -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/9/2008 1:17:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaurainAL

I believe that the only unpardonable sin is rejection of Christ. Suicide is not an automatic ticket to hell. I have heard that many times but it is just not true.


I agree.

I have lost 2 friends to suicide, and my mom lost her best friend when I was about 15. It was devastating as a teen. It was an eye opener for sure to see the hopelessness of living without the Lord, but my mom's friend was a strong Christian and that really threw me for a couple years.



purejoy -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/9/2008 6:02:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaurainAL

I believe that the only unpardonable sin is rejection of Christ. Suicide is not an automatic ticket to hell. I have heard that many times but it is just not true.


I agree Laura. I've heard many times if you commit suicide, you go to hell. I'm not sure where exactly that comes from?



nicole6598 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/9/2008 6:58:35 PM)

I have heard that what Laura said, rejection of Christ is that because the person took their own life they rejected what Christ could do for them and their situation.

I believe that God has grace for the situation though.



purejoy -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/9/2008 11:51:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicole6598

I have heard that what Laura said, rejection of Christ is that because the person took their own life they rejected what Christ could do for them and their situation.

I believe that God has grace for the situation though.


That's probably what I've heard, too. But I would say that in ANY sin we are rejecting what Christ would do for us and our situation. I guess my thoughts at this point are that I don't know for sure, but I do know we serve a loving and merciful God, who at the same time is completely just.



ThursdaysChild -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/10/2008 4:48:33 AM)

I would think it would depend upon the situation. I think the official stance of the RC church and Judaism is that if you commit suicide you go to hell. But that's had to be amended in recent years due to what is being learned about mental health. If someone's not in a state to make valid decisions, should they be held accountable for them?

My SIL's father committed suicide after taking himself off of morphene cold-turkey. He was certainly in no frame of mind to be held accountable for his actions. The family wanted to hospitalize him but one son didn't want the "stigma". Well, he certainly got a different type of stigma, didn't he?

There was a woman in the town where I take my stretching class who committed suicide the other day. She was 52, an attorney, and had an 18 year-old son. They have no idea why she did it.

Truth is, none of us can see inside anyone's head. Only God can and He's the One in charge of handing out the grace.

However, I have little to no sympathy for those who commit suicide to escape accountability for their actions, legal, finnancial, or whatever.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/10/2008 8:13:54 AM)

I know many who commit suicide who had some kind of valid (usually very severe) problem. I've seen some people that are so depressed that they should be institutionalized... but instead commit suicide when they could probably have benefitted from gettihng help... but I noticed some severely depressed can't find it in themselves to force themselves to do anything. And I guess when you go on and on that way for years and even decades, you get tired and want it to end. Especially with those who have given treatment a try for dozens of years and just can't get out of it... I think the hopelessness overwhelms them. But I think sometimes it's a brain chemistry problem that meds has failed to alter as well as therapy (and prayer).

I tell people all the time that we don't know what's going on with Jane Doe's brain, no matter how much we want to think we do. I honestly can't say I wouldn't feel the say way she does if I were stuck inside there. Psychiatric disorders have parts in plenty of suicides, and most of the time that I see, the person at the time wasn't thinking clearly because of them.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/10/2008 8:51:13 AM)

quote:

However, I have little to no sympathy for those who commit suicide to escape accountability for their actions, legal, finnancial, or whatever.

I find that to be a very calloused statement...what about people like Paul's brother who as a teen on drugs and in an abusive home saw no other way out? He wasn't trying to escape accountability, he simply had bought into satan's lie that he wasn't worth life.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/10/2008 8:32:54 PM)

For some reason this didn't seem fitting for the "chat" thread, but I'm reading a book on thalidomide (here, gone, now back on the market for other things)... and some of the effects (other than the direct physical effects on the baby) were terrible, but I guess at least shock and blame I can understand. One father told his wife that if she brought that "monster" home, he'd leave. She said when she brought the baby home, he left without saying anything and was never seen again. Apparently some mothers didn't want the babies either and abandoned them.. and some committed suicide and blamed themselves. Part of me wonders how they'll make sure that pregnant women won't take the drug again today though... esp. since many don't know figure out they're pregnant til after they've taken it. Some women back in the day only took it once or twice at the wrong embryological time and it still got to the babies and harmed them severely. [8|]

(Maybe part of that did fit in with the discussion at hand.)



McGuinessMagee -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/11/2008 6:35:01 AM)

I grew up with a girl who had only half her right arm because of Thalidomide. She was very capable but then I guess half a right arm is pretty minor compared to some of the deformities that drug can cause.

I don't care what the benefits are. If you know a drug is that dangerous to an unborn child it should not be available to any fertile woman unless she has not been having sexual relations and a pregnancy test has confirmed she is not pregnant before that drug is subscribed.

For me, suicide isn't a new thing to deal with. The first time I confronted the issue was as a teen when one of my classmate's little brother shot himself. Since then there have been at least two others prior to the most recent one.

I get what was meant with this -

quote:

However, I have little to no sympathy for those who commit suicide to escape accountability for their actions, legal, finnancial, or whatever.


Having the stomach to face the consequences of poor decisions...

but then, what of people who have been brought up in a situation where if you didn't do everything perfectly you weren't considered lovable?

Facing consequences of poor decisions when you know there is no soft place to fall is vastly different to facing those same consequences if you know that there's going to be someone there loving you in spite of them all the way through whatever those consequences may be.

Kylie[sm=silly.gif]



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/11/2008 1:01:49 PM)

I read a story about a couple that killed their eight-day old (who was apparently so maimed by the drug that she appeared [in their words] not human [I think they said monstrous]) and the doctor said he was too mortified (by the baby's deformities) to undress the baby. He then went on to say that had he been the only one who'd known, he would have attributed the death to natural causes. The couple was found innocent though. I know the FDA has some strict regulations on it now, but it seems like you'd have to take a pregnancy test literally every day... or just be barren or not sexually active. They know which isomer of the drug is a teratogen, but they can't give one or the other... if they give the good one (apparently) it can conform into the teratogenic form on its own.

I think those who might have left their babies or sent them to homes might have had more of the babies who had the really bad effects. Having parts of limbs missing is bad, but some were born without genitals and anuses...and probably some were missing those plus missing limbs. Some had no hearts, intestines, etc... no ears or eyes. It makes sense that that would happen since it works on organ/limb formation, but I guess that explains why so many babies died.

As for suicide, I have seen people not able to live up to set standards and thus become pariahs. I know I've seen people that felt like they were worthless because they weren't good enough for "anyone" (in their lives)... and they felt like no one wanted or cared about them... so they don't care about themselves either. I can understand better someone trying to commit suicide for that reason. It can be tough living in a world when thers's not anyone in the world that's for you or on your side wishing well for you. You feel alone and basically deserted.



Mrs.Wifey -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/11/2008 1:06:40 PM)

What is it on the market for now?



ThursdaysChild -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (7/11/2008 1:14:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2

quote:

However, I have little to no sympathy for those who commit suicide to escape accountability for their actions, legal, finnancial, or whatever.

I find that to be a very calloused statement...what about people like Paul's brother who as a teen on drugs and in an abusive home saw no other way out? He wasn't trying to escape accountability, he simply had bought into satan's lie that he wasn't worth life.


I don't see where he falls into the category I mentioned. If he wasn't trying to escape accountability then what does that have to do with what I said?

I was thinking of someone I knew, distantly, who got himself into some financial trouble due to bad business judgement. Rather than pay the piper, he killed himself and left his widow to deal with it. It wasn't something he couldn't take care of...just involved losing face in the business community (something he could have gained back in time) and having to work his derriere off. I have no sympathy for him or his situation.

People who are in a situation where they feel desparate aren't the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about someone who doesn't want to face his mistakes (usually resulting from greed) and takes the so-called easy way out.

Someone who's honestly in a bad situation and can't see any other way out...not the same thing.

Tamara- I just feel so sorry for those poor children. While I can understand the horror of the parents, they're still their children...I just can't understand leaving or even killing my child. As hard as it would be, I just can't imagine doing that.



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