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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/11/2008 9:43:29 AM
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lexie
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quote:
Or get in a car accident, even with insurance.
Indeed.
Even here, where medical costs are covered, it's still hard. My MIL did not have to pay for any of her cancer treatments (she was at the best hospital in Canada for it) but because she couldn't work, she lost the little bit of money she had saved up. Unemployment and disability isn't enough. She lives in a house with one of her daughters, they split the mortgage. If she didn't live with her daughter, she would be homeless as well. Same with my FIL. I can't imagine how it is for all the people who don't have family, or church family like Donna does.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/11/2008 11:18:30 AM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
quote:
We don't often think of people who are living paycheque to paycheque already, and then they get sick. If they don't have health insurance, then what are they to do.
Or get in a car accident, even with insurance. 
If we did not have our church and family behind us, and rent from someone from church who is willing to wait for the rent, we would be homeless. If not now, very shortly, we would be.
One of the saddest things I saw while on a mission's trip to NYC was a family, with a baby and a toddler, living in a refrigerator box. Outside in February in NYC.  I don't know their story, but I know it could happen to more people than think it could happen to them.
One of my communications arts professors made us do work on homelessness the whole semester. It included working at a shelter and doing research/papers on homelessness. She told us she has a niece (or some relative I think) who had a lot of money saved up and worked for some magazine...I think it may have been Home/Garden magazine. She said she had enough to last a while, but then she got sick and very quickly lost everything. She ended up living with my professor for a while, but I can't help but think, something like that could hit ANY of us one day...and what could we do? Even if you have a ton saved, it can really be gone quickly if something happens.
It's scary.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/11/2008 12:08:59 PM
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danas_mom
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It is scary, Solo.
If Jesus walked the earth today, I really wonder who it is he would pick to hang out with. Who is it that would offend ME the most, that he picked them over me? Who would MY "tax collectors, and sinners" be?
I'm pretty sure I've shared this story before, but I'm going to share it again. When I was in high school I attended a Bible study with some guys who had a Christian rock band (shut up, that's what we called it back in the day ). One night a guy named Perry was doing the study. He had several dozen pictures he had gotten from magazines depicting different people. Some of them were pictures of celebrities, some were politicians, some were just people doing something. We were to cheer for the ones we liked, boo for the ones we didn't. Some of them were easy, we cheered and booed right away. Some of them we discussed first, like the girl getting ready to enter an abortion clinic. Did she look like she was happy with her decision, or was still considering and was there a chance she would change her mind? We were having fun, really got into it. The pictures that got the most cheers Perry laid aside, the ones with the most boos he ripped in half.
The final picture was Jesus Christ. We cheered for a good five minutes while Perry held the picture up. Then he ripped it in half. You could have heard a pin drop in that room. Then he quoted one scripture - The King will reply, "I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."
It rocked my world.
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I will not sacrifice to the LORD my God burnt offerings that cost me nothing. ~ 2 Samuel 24:24
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/11/2008 12:43:30 PM
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lexie
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From: Toronto
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Wow, what an awesome story. I'm saving that one.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/11/2008 9:41:16 PM
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uponeagleswings
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Awesome story. I can only imagine that it was even more awesome in person.
I also think financial education is sorely lacking in my generation. Fortunately, we talked about those things in my house- credit cards, budgeting, etc. DH knew almost nothing about budgeting when we got married.
quote:
I think one of the hardest things for me, and it's quite selfish, is the frustration of seeing people who are receiving government aid spending more money on what I would call "leisure" items then we do, and we are BOTH working so that we don't need aid. And then there is the entitlement attitude...
I'll admit, mine is families where they tell me they're having a hard time paying the bills, then almost immediately tell me about the new *something* that they just bought. Usually I just nod and try to look sympathetic. I've seen families be nearly wiped out by the costs of caring for kids with intense medical needs though- even with insurance the co-pays can really add up. I have one family where their lifetime cap is $2 million- their son racked up over $500K in his first year. Of course, the sky high cost of medical care is a whole other issue. 
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/12/2008 12:21:56 AM
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ofa23
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Well, the topic of homelessness has literally hit close to home (pun intended) for my family and I. We are loosing our home to a business failure and a chapter 7 bankruptcy. The house will go back to the bank in about 6 months and I started looking for a place to live a few weeks ago. Obviously, my credit is shot and I had no idea what I could rent and I wanted to stay close to the neighborhood I live in now. Its a quiet and relatively safe for the high crime city I live in. I kept my eyes open for homes for rent and I noticed a house with a "for rent" sign out front. I called about it and met the owner and what happened next, I really believe was divine intervention. I spoke with the owner for awhile and looked over the home and he said and I am quoting "If you want the house, its yours. Other people have looked at it and I just don't get a good feeling about them but I get a good feeling about you so I don't need to run any credit checks (I never mentioned anything about my credit) and you can move in this month. They are also working with me on the security deposit, which I didn't have.
Loosing my home has definately been an eye opener about what others have gone through and are going through (I live in a very high foreclosure area of the country) in loosing their homes. Praise the Lord, I have never been out on the streets but I really was one step from being there before I found this home. More and more people are facing homelessness as the foreclosure rates keep rising around the country.
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In essentials; Unity (The Nicene Creed)
In Non-Essentials; Liberty (Everything Else)
In all things; Charity
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/12/2008 2:05:54 AM
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magdaleine
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Wow! Bless that landlord for his kindness to you! I hope everything works out okay in all the other aspects of your changed situation.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/12/2008 8:04:19 AM
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lexie
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quote:
I'll admit, mine is families where they tell me they're having a hard time paying the bills, then almost immediately tell me about the new *something* that they just bought.
We have friends just like this. Once when a group of us were together, the husband was asking to borrow money from the men because he didn't have any money for groceries, and he had nothing to feed the kids, and money has been so tight for them recently. While he was doing this the wife was showing all the women her new wedding ring set and telling us exactly how much money they spent on it (which they also overpaid, because they didn't bother to look around at prices.)
The last time they asked to borrow money I told them we couldn't do it. I don't have a problem loaning people money if they need it and they are responsible but I told them that they are wasteful with their money and there is no reason but wastefulness that they are in their situation. Everyone saw it coming and tried to warn them and they wouldn't listen.
Ofa - what an incredible blessing, praise the Lord!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/12/2008 5:20:16 PM
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myka
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(((((ofa)))))
I love God-stories like that. We've been 'homeless', too. There are a lot of people who don't have their own permanent place to live. For us, we were living with relatives for several months. We've had money issues due to business problems also.
In our city, we don't have an official 'shelter' even in the winter months. Recently, there have been some churches who have taken on this ministry, but it is only for men. I think that a lot of women who are homeless are 'living' with someone (family/friends).
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/15/2008 1:02:55 AM
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ThursdaysChild
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I don't know about the homeless situation here in Kuwait, but there are many who definately live in slum conditions (or worse) and don't have proper winter clothes. (Yes, it gets VERY cold here during the 2 months of winter.) A Christian woman (married to a Kuwaiti) has started a charity that collects funds for coats, gloves, scarves, hats, etc. and bag them up. Then they distribute them. People will even load up their trunks with the bags to hand out to people they see walking down the street without proper coats.
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Live your life in such a way that every morning when your feet hit the floor...Satan shudders and says..."Oh No...she's AWAKE!"
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/15/2008 1:34:44 AM
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uponeagleswings
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Do you discuss church issues with non-Christians? I'm inclined not to because many non-Christians already are cynical enough about churches. Not that I think we should pretend OUR lives are perfect, or even that our churches are perfect, but there are boundaries somewhere I guess?
Our church is going through turmoil (as far as we can tell the elders basically asked the lead pastor of 12 years to step down- at least 1 elder who leads our small group has left the church in protest). We may or may not be returning after the dust settles, depending on what we can find out about the exact circumstances involved. DH is feeling vulnerable enough (is JUST ready to return to church after nearly a year of not attending) that we don't want to be involved with any drama. What was odd is that NOTHING was said in service today, even though the e-mail went out to members this past week. The church has a standing policy that they do not "discuss family business in front of guests," which is why I'm assuming that nothing was said. DH and I haven't really had anyone to bounce all of this off of other than ourselves, so I'm not really sure what my question is here- maybe I'm just processing.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/15/2008 8:16:52 AM
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nicole6598
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Stacy I don't discuss church issues with non- Christians. Maybe they plan on having a meeting for members of the church to hear about things instead of doing it in a public service?
I have a question or maybe a comment...
Friend of mine has been researching and reading and investigating and no longer believes the Bible is real. He says he has "proof" that he has found. He used to be a very strong Christian, knew everything, led a youth group and things. He is married to my best friend who led me to Christ and who is the strongest Christian I know, but is now starting to waiver too all because of what he has been reading etc. My other best best friend (who is her younger sister) is going there this week to visit them, she is interested in hearing what he has found, but I am worried for her (she is already waivering as it is too). Have you had people like that in your life? Those that turned? What did you do about it? doesn't the Bible say that they can't come back?
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/15/2008 10:37:37 AM
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solo_soprano22
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I have. I know people/friends who have turned. I really don't know what to say to them, because most of the time we had the same upbringing and took the same theology classes... they know all of what I know about God/The Bible, and in some instances, they know more. The problem I see is that I can't prove the Bible is true (unless someone tells me how I can  ), and if I asked someone how they know it's true, they (might) say because of the Holy Spirit (or so I've heard some say). I remember when I was a child asking how we're certain we have the right religion... because everyone thinks they have it right as well. I don't know what the answer was that people gave me (I think it was the Holy Spirit most of the time), but I think that question bothers some people to the point that they give up religion....and of course, there are just those who aren't convinced the Bible/Jesus are real.
I'm not sure what to say to people who are becoming doubtful; perhaps just pray for them.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/15/2008 1:02:09 PM
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magdaleine
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Stacy, I think not talking about it from the pulpit and using guests to the church as the reason is a cop-out. The church needs to stay informed and people need to be able to process what's happened. If it's all wrapped up in secrecy and not spoken outloud, that opportunity to process is stolen from the congregation. What comes from the pulpit doesn't have to be negative or emotional but there's nothing wrong with it being informative. To give the image of perfection or of being problem-free is wrong. One church I was in, when one couple who had been a key part of the church for most of the church's life--the husband was the only life-long member of the church council and preached every second week or so--left because of negative pressure from some on the council who didn't like him, a letter was read outloud to the congregation. It didn't sugar coat anything and it didn't go into a lot of detail but it did make it clear that there was a lot of pain behind the leaving. I think that was a good way to handle it. It allowed the rest of us to talk about it and thus process it after the service and beyond.
quote:
Have you had people like that in your life? Those that turned? What did you do about it? doesn't the Bible say that they can't come back?
Hebrews does say that there is a point when someone can't turn back but I'm not sure that we are able to know when that point is for any particular person. Knowledge about Jesus is never going to be enough to keep a person faithful to Jesus and I think often we are convinced that our righteousness is the result of how much we know. "I know all this, therefor I'm saved." Knowledge is vital but unless we also have an encounter with Jesus, an actual experience that speaks to the deep parts of us, our commitment to following Jesus may be more tenuous than we or others realize.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/15/2008 4:20:44 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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quote:
ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.
The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.
Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.
Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims
Article
What do you all think?
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/15/2008 6:08:37 PM
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uponeagleswings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
Stacy I don't discuss church issues with non- Christians. Maybe they plan on having a meeting for members of the church to hear about things instead of doing it in a public service?
They are having a meeting the first week in October- not sure what will be said.
quote:
I think not talking about it from the pulpit and using guests to the church as the reason is a cop-out. The church needs to stay informed and people need to be able to process what's happened. If it's all wrapped up in secrecy and not spoken outloud, that opportunity to process is stolen from the congregation. What comes from the pulpit doesn't have to be negative or emotional but there's nothing wrong with it being informative.
This was my thinking too. I was at least expecting some sort of announcement at the end of service that the lead pastor was leaving, whether or not any specific reasons were given. He and his daughters did make an appearance at the back of the church during the last 5 minutes of service and say goodbye to whoever stopped on the way out, but I'd say that no more than 10-15% of the people talked to him.
Turning back to God- I think whether people are "able" to turn back is based on their hearts. I think people can harden their hearts to a point that they are willfully turning away from God.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/15/2008 6:44:38 PM
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nicole6598
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I think that's the thing Tamara- some people just aren't happy with "faith" they need to have proof. This all happened when he discovered that he didn't believe what he had been taught all his life about WOF and the like. So then it sent him in a spin and got him hunting for other things that may have been incorrect.
Maggie- thanks, I will look up Hebrews, I don't have my bible here with me and didn't know where to look, I knew it was in the NT but didnt know where.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/16/2008 12:40:36 AM
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magdaleine
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I looked it up for you. It's Hebrews 6:4-6.
That passage was used with me at the point where I had to decide whether I would choose God or my same-sex lover. I wanted both, frankly, and the friend who spent hours fighting for my soul, used these verses as part of her arsenal. That passage truly is a sobering one.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/16/2008 4:28:08 AM
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ThursdaysChild
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Nicole- There is a point where people can't come back, after they've totally rejected Christ. But, we can reject Him yet return to Him with the Holy Spirit's help. But, if we don't, and we die in our sin, then we have no hope. In other words, it's possible, once you've been saved, to reject your salvation and lose it. But thanks to God's mercy, we can also return. But it's not something we can choose to do...we can only return with the Spirit's help.
Stacy- A few years ago there was in issue with our former pastor at my home church. Due to the nature of the situation, it was VERY inappropriate to discuss it with visitors or anyone off the street. Eventually it did make the local paper, but after the congregation had been informed. Letters were sent out and announcements made at church during the announcements that there would be a meeting on a specific date concerning a former pastor of the congregation. Then, at the meeting, all the information was given. This was a very proper way to handle the situation. It let the congregation know their presence was requested at a meeting without giving visitors any information and then it was discussed openly.
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Live your life in such a way that every morning when your feet hit the floor...Satan shudders and says..."Oh No...she's AWAKE!"
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/16/2008 2:28:59 PM
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Georgia-Peach
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What does Hebrews 6:4-6 mean? I have never known of that verse and now I am a little freaked out by it. Does it mean that if you sin you or have a stale period in your walk with God you missed your chance? Someone please explain this verse to me! I have been raised in church my whole life, but a verse like this sounds scary.
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Chelle
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/16/2008 2:45:50 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Georgia-Peach
What does Hebrews 6:4-6 mean? I have never known of that verse and now I am a little freaked out by it. Does it mean that if you sin you or have a stale period in your walk with God you missed your chance? Someone please explain this verse to me! I have been raised in church my whole life, but a verse like this sounds scary.
There are a few different interpretations around. Some people believe it means you can lose your salvation, but others don't (I am in that camp).
For one perspective, have a look H E R E
And for another, HERE
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/16/2008 3:00:13 PM
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purejoy
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Would you say that losing your salvation and rejecting your salvation are the same thing? Or would you also say it's impossible to truly reject your salvation?
That's something I've always struggle with as far as once saved always saved. If we have free will, don't we have the free will to also reject our salvation later on?
Reject as in making a conscious decision that that is NOT what you believe or want to follow any more. Not as in sin or have a stale period in your spiritual walk.
Just curious as to all of your thoughts...
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/17/2008 1:17:38 AM
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nicole6598
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Thanks Maggie for looking it up for me. I wonder what he would say to that, or what you say to a Christian who no longer even believes in the Bible though?
Chelle- no need to worry about that verse. I take it to mean that it was for Christians who have tasted the life, lived for God and like purejoy said have rejected, turned away from following for whatever reason. I think those are the people the verse is talking about.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 9/17/2008 1:19:49 AM
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uponeagleswings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: purejoy
If we have free will, don't we have the free will to also reject our salvation later on?
Reject as in making a conscious decision that that is NOT what you believe or want to follow any more. Not as in sin or have a stale period in your spiritual walk.
Just curious as to all of your thoughts...
I agree with this. I think rejecting one's salvation is a conscious decision of actively walking away from God. I tend to think that's what constitutes "blasphemy of the holy spirit," which some would say is the only unforgivable sin. And that's not because God wouldn't forgive it, but because the person hardens their heart to a point that they are unwilling/unable to receive that forgiveness.
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I have one couple in my class that is completely unchurched, so pray that I can be a great witness to them. 
