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1love1God1way -> James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/10/2008 2:19:45 AM)

Hi friends!

Here are a couple of names I have not heard before. Does anyone know anything about these two fellows? Apparently they "prophesied" over the school I attend. I have no idea if they are legit people or not. Thoughts?



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/10/2008 6:34:30 AM)

James Goll's main ministry is in intercession and training the "Seer" in their gift. John Paul Jackson does not tout a call as a Prophet (to my knowledge anyway, I may be wrong) but his ministry is deeply involved in training people to prophesy.

Things that will come up in this thread eventually:

John Paul Jackson was "part of the KC Prophets debacle!" (He also spent two years circulating the country repenting for the perceived abuses of prophecy by the KC Prophets)

John Paul Jackson believes in dream interpretation! (Got me there... the guy believes that God still speaks through dreams...)

John Paul Jackson is a New Age psycho! (Not really... he believes stuff in the natural order has a supernatural reason in it's design because God created it)

John Paul Jackson is a Word of Faith charlatan! (Not a bit. Charismatic yes, WoF no.)

James Goll believes in Prophecy being a gift for today! (1st Corinthians 14 would agree)

James Goll believes Israel is still God's chosen people! (Romans 9-11 would agree)

James Goll believes people can be called to Intercession like people can be called to preach! (Very true... and?)

So, you will find much controversy surrounding those two names... but if "controversy = bad" then there is very, very little we can talk about in church. If you want links to websites, you can find John Paul's ministry at : http://www.streamsministries.com/ Or you can find James Goll at: http://www.encountersnetwork.com/index.html

Adam
(Edited to add links)



mcleod -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/10/2008 1:16:23 PM)

ForGodWurLivin,

quote:

John Paul Jackson is a Word of Faith charlatan! (Not a bit. Charismatic yes, WoF no.)


Did you read the Web sites in which you sent us there to see what they are all about? That John Paul Jackson has been on Hinn, Trinity, 700 club, and alot of off the wall type people who have stated things in the past that didn't come true. When you wrote that John Paul Jackson isn't a WOF. You are by what you hang out with. This guy is one of the most arrogant type person that I've read about in quite awhile.



Lapidoth -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/10/2008 2:25:06 PM)

Haven't heard of James Goll.
I do have cd's and books by John Paul Jackson.

His testimony is that his mother received a word that
her son would be a prophet. His early years were pretty
rebellious by his own admission.

I don't know enough about him to form an opinion.

You can google any one and you will find more opposition than support.
So, you would have to hear or read their materials and judge it according
to Scripture.

One of the persons I look to the most outside of scripture has thousands of
pages calling him a false teacher, etc. etc. etc. But I daily keep his comments
in mind as I pour over the Word every morning. I study to learn, but at the
same time continue to judge everyone's teaching by what I am reading.

The Scripture is the judge of all opinions.



1love1God1way -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/10/2008 3:38:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin


John Paul Jackson was "part of the KC Prophets debacle!" (He also spent two years circulating the country repenting for the perceived abuses of prophecy by the KC Prophets)


Repenting for abuse. . . does that make up for his numerous false prophecies while he was a part of them?

quote:


John Paul Jackson believes in dream interpretation! (Got me there... the guy believes that God still speaks through dreams...)


From what I understand, he believes in a "dream alphabet of symbols" that when applied correctly will interpret properly 99-100% of all dreams.

quote:


John Paul Jackson is a New Age psycho! (Not really... he believes stuff in the natural order has a supernatural reason in it's design because God created it)


He said something about spherical orbs. . .?



earthless -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/10/2008 3:48:22 PM)

If they're not Word of Faith then I must be eating my hat!



SD456 -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/10/2008 11:48:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcleod

ForGodWurLivin,

quote:

John Paul Jackson is a Word of Faith charlatan! (Not a bit. Charismatic yes, WoF no.)


Did you read the Web sites in which you sent us there to see what they are all about? That John Paul Jackson has been on Hinn, Trinity, 700 club, and alot of off the wall type people who have stated things in the past that didn't come true. When you wrote that John Paul Jackson isn't a WOF. You are by what you hang out with. This guy is one of the most arrogant type person that I've read about in quite awhile.


How funny that we all look at things with different perceptions and see things so differently! John Paul is one of the most tender, humble, loving christians I've ever heard preach. His relationship with God is like a son to his daddy. He knows Jesus' heart and is very quick to repent if he makes a mistake in something. I believe that God deeply loves this boy of His and treasures him.

Love that man!

quote:

He said something about spherical orbs. . .?


Oh, goodness, the things that God has shown me would blow your socks off if you're worried about spherical orbs! *L* Our universe is a supernatural wonder and the invisible realm, which is actually more real than the visible we see, is even more of a phenomenon. There are loads and loads of stuff that God shows people that our tiny little minds just don't grasp easily. Didn't Jacob see a stairway coming down from heaven with angels going up and down it? And he understood that that was a holy place he was at.

God speaks supernaturally, so yes, we need to learn His language to understand the things He speaks to us - especially if He's speaking in symbol and metaphors to us.

But then, some of you have your minds too planted in the practical, logical world to be able to grasp the wild truths of God's supernatural without getting your pants all wadded up.



1love1God1way -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/11/2008 12:06:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456


quote:

He said something about spherical orbs. . .?


Oh, goodness, the things that God has shown me would blow your socks off if you're worried about spherical orbs! *L* Our universe is a supernatural wonder and the invisible realm, which is actually more real than the visible we see, is even more of a phenomenon. There are loads and loads of stuff that God shows people that our tiny little minds just don't grasp easily. Didn't Jacob see a stairway coming down from heaven with angels going up and down it? And he understood that that was a holy place he was at.

God speaks supernaturally, so yes, we need to learn His language to understand the things He speaks to us - especially if He's speaking in symbol and metaphors to us.

But then, some of you have your minds too planted in the practical, logical world to be able to grasp the wild truths of God's supernatural without getting your pants all wadded up.


Eh. That's not really what I meant, but okay.

Really, I am less worried about his orbs, and more worried about his numerous failed prophecies.



SirWintery -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/11/2008 10:55:25 AM)

Wow, a simple google turned up a real John Paul Jackson moneysaver!

If you have wondered if John Paul Jackson, false prophet and purveyor of a fantasy "portals" doctrine would ever come up with anything useful, here it is!

Now I don't have to worry about 100 to 200 dollars to spend on a dream interpretation class at a Third Wave Church school! John Paul Jackson's Streams online store offers the Streams Dream Card for a few measly bucks!

Imagine how handy that would be for a do-it-yourselfer like me. Have a dream? Just whip out the handy card and see the meaning of numbers, dream categories and more!

Okay, since I'm actually LOL at this point I'll have to stop there.

P.S. In case you couldn't tell I am _not_ promoting JPJ, quite the opposite. There's just no end to the foolishness of this bunch until the bucks dry up.



Lapidoth -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/11/2008 11:19:39 AM)

I like to think that when the bucks are going down,
as in the prices, the pool of followers is drying up. lol.



mcleod -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/11/2008 11:37:20 AM)

quote:

Wow, a simple google turned up a real John Paul Jackson moneysaver!

If you have wondered if John Paul Jackson, false prophet and purveyor of a fantasy "portals" doctrine would ever come up with anything useful, here it is!

Now I don't have to worry about 100 to 200 dollars to spend on a dream interpretation class at a Third Wave Church school! John Paul Jackson's Streams online store offers the Streams Dream Card for a few measly bucks!

Imagine how handy that would be for a do-it-yourselfer like me. Have a dream? Just whip out the handy card and see the meaning of numbers, dream categories and more!

Okay, since I'm actually LOL at this point I'll have to stop there.

P.S. In case you couldn't tell I am _not_ promoting JPJ, quite the opposite. There's just no end to the foolishness of this bunch until the bucks dry up.


Since we are to be imitators of Christ. Hear ye oh hear ye, people, did Jesus ask his disciples that if they paid a certian fee to him, He would have them reach the highest heavens? I would say no, but I have been known to be wrong before.



SD456 -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/11/2008 12:44:20 PM)

Well, if that's your belief, then we need to get rid of every single ministry and book writer and band that has CD's and every single thing that every single christian sells to support their families, their ministries and God's kingdom.

Oh, dear! We should NEVER have to pay for any kind of classes - everything should be free!! (tongue in cheek here)

Get rid of James Dobson and the books he sells, Get rid of YWAM and their need to raise money for their missions, Get rid of every church building that requires the electricity and mortgage to be paid, get rid of them all because everything in the kingdom should be offered to us FREE of charge - Isn't that what Jesus would do?



mcleod -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/11/2008 12:54:29 PM)

But wouldn't it be nice if they said if you could give us an offering which would help in the cost. By the way I don't buy Mr. Dobson's books. If you are being feed by them great support them. But with the wrong ideas in that what the future holds and that God told them this and failed. Then it's time to say good-bye to them any other persons who think they have direct line from God and fail.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 6:04:50 AM)

quote:

Repenting for abuse. . . does that make up for his numerous false prophecies while he was a part of them?
First, I will ask since when Repentence did not bring forgiveness for our sins and a restoration of our standing with God? Second, I would ask you if you had made a mistake like not doing what God told you to do when he told you to do it in the way he told you to do it? If yes, then rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and we are to put witches to death... Aren't you glad for repentance?
quote:

Did you read the Web sites in which you sent us there to see what they are all about? That John Paul Jackson has been on Hinn, Trinity, 700 club, and alot of off the wall type people who have stated things in the past that didn't come true. When you wrote that John Paul Jackson isn't a WOF. You are by what you hang out with. This guy is one of the most arrogant type person that I've read about in quite awhile.
So Jesus was a tax collector and a sinner? I can go on Oprah, but that doesn't make me black or a liberal. Basically, your argument makes no sense.
quote:

If they're not Word of Faith then I must be eating my hat!
And how does your hat taste, earthless?
quote:

One of the persons I look to the most outside of scripture has thousands of pages calling him a false teacher, etc. etc. etc
As I said, if "controversy = bad" then we are all in a lot of trouble.
quote:

From what I understand, he believes in a "dream alphabet of symbols" that when applied correctly will interpret properly 99-100% of all dreams.
Which he published after many years of study, collaborations, and personal experience. I believe you have your facts off about the percentage, because I have never heard him quote numbers. I may be wrong, but that is trivial at best.
quote:

Really, I am less worried about his orbs, and more worried about his numerous failed prophecies.
As someone who has known several people before getting involved with his ministry and after, he was very accurate when I heard him. Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but my personal experience trumps your internet research in my own mind.
quote:

Since we are to be imitators of Christ. Hear ye oh hear ye, people, did Jesus ask his disciples that if they paid a certian fee to him, He would have them reach the highest heavens? I would say no, but I have been known to be wrong before.
Give to God what is God's... and a workman being worth his hire (Paul). That is pretty convincing for me.
quote:

But wouldn't it be nice if they said if you could give us an offering which would help in the cost.
I believe Radiohead found out how well that works... it doesn't.

Adam



earthless -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 8:06:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcleod

But wouldn't it be nice if they said if you could give us an offering which would help in the cost. By the way I don't buy Mr. Dobson's books. If you are being feed by them great support them. But with the wrong ideas in that what the future holds and that God told them this and failed. Then it's time to say good-bye to them any other persons who think they have direct line from God and fail.


Bingo.



stateofgrace -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 8:14:22 AM)

It's almost gotten to the point of a light bulb joke, but it's not funny.

Just how many false prophecies does it take for someone to be declared a false prophet?



SirWintery -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 10:21:08 AM)

It's a false argument to talk about supporting the Gospel, etc., when we look at the merchandising of people's personal "revelations".

John 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of merchandise.

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

"feigned words", as in "invented" or "imagined" as in JPJ's portals. That's one of the shakiest they've come up with yet, and it's amazing the people that will make use of it, as well as the kind of use they make.

From JPJ's Streams website:

"A first-hand exploration of portals
What they are
Why they are
How they work
And how to create them"

Heard enough? No? Okay....

"In Sutton, New Hampshire, a portal exists on the 90-acres that were given to Streams Ministries. Obviously the enemy knows this, because he has been blocking the use of this portal and providing access only to the second Heaven. Every time I climb to the top of the land, which the locals refer to as "the Pinnacle", I have torn down demonic altars erected by witches who trespass on the property and defile places where God had once revealed Himself. But God is calling us to take back these high places, so that His angels can come and go without hindrance." --John Paul Jackson, "Heavenly Portals" http://www.etpv.org/2006/heport.html

Is God really "calling us to take" physical land because portals exist on them that have been blocked, and the angels need help unstopping them?

Saying that Jacob's ladder justifies the portals fantasy is like saying because Jonah was swallowed by a fish and survived, we should all jump overboard and try to get eaten.

"It's all about the money, boys!"--Big Dan, "O Brother, Where Art Thou"

I don't know if it's "all" about the money. Some of it may be about being snared by deception, but then, if all the struggle over portals was so important to God's kingdom, why wouldn't you just post everything you know on the 'net, without slick packaging and marketing, and issue a call to battle? Maybe it is about the money and maybe it's ridiculous.



mcleod -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 10:35:01 AM)

I heard one of them talk last night and it's not about the money, buts it's about the anointing. Then in their next phrase they mention about having lots and lots of money. Paul wrote be content with what you have and not to covet.



SirWintery -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 10:52:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcleod

I heard one of them talk last night and it's not about the money, buts it's about the anointing. Then in their next phrase they mention about having lots and lots of money. Paul wrote be content with what you have and not to covet.


1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 John 2:20 must be a real stickler for those who think they are more "anointed" than someone else.

Was it Goll or JPJ you heard? By the way if you try to Google info on Goll, he's one of the ones that altered his "stage name", (I'll call it that for lack of knowing any other term), from "Jim Goll". So if you look for older info use the older name.



SD456 -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 11:49:57 AM)

quote:

Saying that Jacob's ladder justifies the portals fantasy is like saying because Jonah was swallowed by a fish and survived, we should all jump overboard and try to get eaten.


Except that Jacob's ladder very clearly shows that there are places which angels come up and down from heaven. So it is not a fantasy at all, it is reality. And since it part of the invisible realm, it is even more real than what we see around us.

There are so many things about the supernatural realm that we just don't get. And even when the bible gives us examples, so many are still so quick to "poo-poo" it.

I think God has a very difficult time with the western church. We are so planted in our 'age of reason' stuff.

quote:

Is God really "calling us to take" physical land because portals exist on them that have been blocked, and the angels need help unstopping them?


Which part do you have a difficulty with? 1) That God will often times not release his angels unless we pray? or 2) That God often calls His children to buy land for spiritual purposes? Both are quite biblical.

In Ireland they called these 'thin places'. There is an understanding among many cultures that there are places on this earth geographically that seem to have more supernatural activity than anywhere else. There is no reason to suppose that all of that activity is demonic. I believe that much of that activity is also God's angelic.

Oh, how exciting to serve a supernatural God and participate in the mysterious and wondrous things He is constantly doing on the earth. The christian life really isn't all about sitting in a pew and endlessly reading the written word - it's about PARTICIPATING in God's power moving in the earth through Jesus. It's sooo boring without the participation.



mcleod -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 12:39:05 PM)

quote:

Oh, how exciting to serve a supernatural God and participate in the mysterious and wondrous things He is constantly doing on the earth. The christian life really isn't all about sitting in a pew and endlessly reading the written word - it's about PARTICIPATING in God's power moving in the earth through Jesus. It's sooo boring without the participation.


Yet when it comes to helping some less fortunate than them. Then it's to bad so sad I can't help you cause I'm trying find port holes where God breaks through the atmosphere. Yes here we are thinking that he is hearing our prays on high Isaiah 58.



SirWintery -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 12:42:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456


Except that Jacob's ladder very clearly shows that there are places which angels come up and down from heaven.



Have you read it? Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

So he saw it in dream. That hardly establishes a "portal" or shows that ladders can be blocked by the enemy, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456
And since it part of the invisible realm, it is even more real than what we see around us.


Yet it takes "real" money to read all about it! Is it seriously "even more real"???
quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456
There are so many things about the supernatural realm that we just don't get. And even when the bible gives us examples, so many are still so quick to "poo-poo" it.


No, I believe the examples the Bible gives us, just not these prophecy peddlers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456
I think God has a very difficult time with the western church. We are so planted in our 'age of reason' stuff.


There is a "western" audience of several million that regularly purchase this type of material. That, IMO, is the disgrace of the church.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456
Which part do you have a difficulty with? 1) That God will often times not release his angels unless we pray? or 2) That God often calls His children to buy land for spiritual purposes? Both are quite biblical.


I would say the sci-fi fantasy that we are called to help angels unstop their slidey-holes, the idea that there are portals that may be used by the bad guys, the idea that JPJ has the capacity to locate such holes, and that's a good start.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456
In Ireland they called these 'thin places'. There is an understanding among many cultures that there are places on this earth geographically that seem to have more supernatural activity than anywhere else. There is no reason to suppose that all of that activity is demonic. I believe that much of that activity is also God's angelic.


In Genesis 28:15 God tells Jacob: And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

God will keep him in all the places he goes. He doesn't say to check for more places with ladders or portals. I think spiritual activity is where you find it, not attached to wormholes, although spiritual aspects may be particular to a general area as in the reference in Daniel to the prince of Persia.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456
Oh, how exciting to serve a supernatural God and participate in the mysterious and wondrous things He is constantly doing on the earth. The christian life really isn't all about sitting in a pew and endlessly reading the written word - it's about PARTICIPATING in God's power moving in the earth through Jesus. It's sooo boring without the participation.


I'm all for participation. It just doesn't include the distractions of the imaginations of the Elijah List bunch.



SD456 -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 1:58:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcleod

quote:

Oh, how exciting to serve a supernatural God and participate in the mysterious and wondrous things He is constantly doing on the earth. The christian life really isn't all about sitting in a pew and endlessly reading the written word - it's about PARTICIPATING in God's power moving in the earth through Jesus. It's sooo boring without the participation.


Yet when it comes to helping some less fortunate than them. Then it's to bad so sad I can't help you cause I'm trying find port holes where God breaks through the atmosphere. Yes here we are thinking that he is hearing our prays on high Isaiah 58.


Except that there ministry is very involved in missions in many different ways, just as lots of other churches are.

I don't know of any followers of Jesus who have the attitude you just mentioned and do not want to help the less fortunate, so I can't comment on that since I haven't met any like that.

quote:

Have you read it? Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

So he saw it in dream. That hardly establishes a "portal" or shows that ladders can be blocked by the enemy,


God shows many true things in dreams. In a dream an angel told Joseph & mary to flee to Egypt, in a dream Pharoah was shown of an actual famine that was coming. In dreams and visions the apostles (John especially) were shown the actual throne of God where the angels were praying night and day - all true places and real life events. We cannot assume that because God revealed it via a dream that it isn't a real place.

I fully believe that there are places where angels ascend and descend, just as shown in Jacobs dream, as I fully believe that there are truly angels that are in the throne room just like John saw.

I think that your assumption that it's not real is incorrect. And I trust John Paul's many years of mature experience in these things. And my own scripture study and experiences also make me believe these things.

quote:

It just doesn't include the distractions of the imaginations of the Elijah List bunch.


Actually it does include our sanctified imagination. God said that "He is able to do exceedingly abundantly more than we could ever think (imagine) or ask." So the truth is, if we can imagine it, God actually does far more stranger, wilder and wonderful things than that. So much so, that we cannot even in our imagination picture what God is doing.



1love1God1way -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 2:08:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin

First, I will ask since when Repentence did not bring forgiveness for our sins and a restoration of our standing with God? Second, I would ask you if you had made a mistake like not doing what God told you to do when he told you to do it in the way he told you to do it? If yes, then rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and we are to put witches to death... Aren't you glad for repentance?


Certainly, in God's eyes, repentance brings about forgiveness. However, that does not mean that we here on earth automatically return to trusting people who have made false prophecies.

quote:

Which he published after many years of study, collaborations, and personal experience. I believe you have your facts off about the percentage, because I have never heard him quote numbers. I may be wrong, but that is trivial at best.


The statistical numbers come from the mouth of Jackson himself. That being said, what is the study of dreams? I have read the Bible and have not seen anything that talks about how to interpret dreams. All I see is that dream interpretation comes from God alone. You cannot devise some kind of flow chart that automatically correlates images in dreams into what God is trying to say to us.

quote:

As someone who has known several people before getting involved with his ministry and after, he was very accurate when I heard him. Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but my personal experience trumps your internet research in my own mind.


I have read a couple hundred page dissertation full of quotes and false claims made by those involved in the Kansas City Prophets. Do I need to quote the very things that he said that never came true? I am pretty sure the words that actually came out of his mouth that contradict the word of God and have been proven false trump your couple times you have heard him talk.



SD456 -> RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson (3/12/2008 2:14:40 PM)

We are obviously in different camps of the church. But that's ok. We'll be in heaven one day and we'll be able to all know all the wonderful things that were happening in the spiritual realm while we were on earth that we couldn't see fully.

God bless, Ben.



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