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Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/17/2008 2:15:29 AM
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bitnpiece
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Lately, I've noticed a lot of Full and Partial Preterists stepping out and into forums....When I finally understood their agenda, I turned to Dan.9:24-27 for a closer look...
I spent the last 6 months trying to interpret and explain Daniel's 70 Weeks...
Figuring the weeks nearly did me in, however, endtimeprophecy.us contains a post that disproves the 'no gap theory' held by Full Preterists..
And, it's only a matter of time before I post an additional paper that will make 'null and void' the Partial Preterists views.
Let me know what you think...Please, no comments from the peanut gallery, Full and Partial Preterisms...I already know the agreement, which is why I posted here...
bit...
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/17/2008 6:54:29 AM
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Midwest
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You night find this an interesting view of the 70th week
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For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/17/2008 11:13:53 AM
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bob97
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There are several places in the bible which give reference to a gap between the 69th and the 70th week and the gap between the spring and fall feasts is one of the most apparent.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/17/2008 1:05:34 PM
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Lapidoth
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LOL.
Since this is a preterist thread, I guess I have no comment.
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BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/17/2008 4:28:22 PM
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bitnpiece
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
There are several places in the bible which give reference to a gap between the 69th and the 70th week and the gap between the spring and fall feasts is one of the most apparent.
Bob
Hi Bob, Yes I know about the gap between the 69th and 70th week..Part 3, soon to be posted... endtimeprophecy.us...
bit
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/20/2008 10:16:26 AM
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Cephyr13
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Here's my view of the 70 weeks.
First of all, we're told in Numbers 14:34 & Ezekiel 4:5,6 that a day equals a year in prophecy. So we know these are days that equal years, obviously. That's not mystery. But Hebrew years are only 360 days long. So we must convert to 365.24 day solar years in which history is recorded in, and by which we live today. That's the only way to track these prophecies throughout history correctly.
360 divided by 365.24 = .9857 (this is our conversion factor)
Daniel says that there are 7 weeks, 62 weeks and a final week. Let's take the first 7 weeks.
7 weeks X 7 days per week = 49 days (or Hebrew years)
49 x .9857 = 48.3 solar years
Daniel tells us to start counting time after a decree is sent out to restore Jerusalem, and that it will be a time of trouble. There were four restoration decrees granted by the Medo-Persian Empire. But almost 100 years after Gabriel spoke to Daniel, a special decree was granted by Artaxerxes I to Nehemiah (444-445BC). This is the ONLY decree recorded in the Bible that gave the Jews permission to restore Jerusalem and rebuild its walls, and since Scripture relates to Scripture, we should start counting time from that biblical decree.
444 BC - 48.3 years = 395.7 BC (the year the last book of the Bible, Malachi, was written, and the old testament canon finished)
This fulfills one of the prophecies of the 70 weeks, which said all vision and prophecy will be sealed up. God even tells Daniel that these prophecies will be sealed up till the time of the end. Now let's see about the other prophecies in the 70 weeks.
Let's take the first 7 weeks and add them to the 62 weeks to get 69 weeks. We'll start counting from 444 BC again, and add 69 weeks of years this time.
69 weeks x 7 days per week equals = 483 days (Hebrew years)
483 x .9857 = 476 solar years
-444 BC + 476 = 32 AD (the year historians believe Jesus was crucified)
This fulfilled the rest of the prophecies which would be:
1. “Finish transgression.”
2. “Make an end of sin.”
3. “Make reconciliation for iniquity.”
4. “Bring in everlasting righteousness.”
5. “To anoint the most Holy.
Now, to the 70th week.
This one's more tricky. If we can prove that the time periods given about the 70th week are actually long periods of time, we can prove the 70th week is actually a long period of time. Let's do that real quick.
583 BC: The Jews are led away captive to Babylon so that they can no longer give daily sacrifices on the temple mount.
Daniel 12:10 says there will be 1,290 days between the abolition of the daily sacrifice and the abomination of desolation being "set up".
1,290 Hebrew years X .9857 = 1,271.553 solar years
-583 BC + 1,271.553 yrs = 688.553 AD, the year the Dome of the Rock starts construction on the temple mount, and a million Jews are slaughtered, but the Christians escape due to Jesus prophecy in Matthew 24 where He tells us to flee Judea (Jerusalem) when we see the Abomination of Desolation standing in the holy place (on the temple mount).
This started the great tribulation, and for the next 1,260 years, it was the worst time in history for Jews and Christians. A million Jews were slaughtered initially, and in WWII, Hitler slaughtered 6 million, and throughout those years, the Jews were hunted down and killed. Catholics would tell the Jews to bring their belongings to them for safe keeping and that they would hide the Jews and tell the persuers they did not know where the Jews were. The Catholics would then give up the Jews' location so they would be killed so that the Catholics got to keep the Jews' wealth. Christians were hunted down for a few hundred years and killed during the Spanish Inqusition, and the dark ages were definitely a bad time for us too. It has been said that the Catholic church has killed more Christians than any other one entity. This was the Great Tribulation. Since 1948, the Jews and Christians haven't been dispersed into the rest of the world nor killed in massive numbers like they used to be. That was the end of the Great Tribulation, and now we are in the time of the end. If you look at the prophecy about the temple mount and the two witnesses, it says they'll prophecy for 1,260 days (day = year).
688 AD + 1,260 years = 1948 AD (Israel becomes a nation again and is no longer prophesying in sacloth and ashes, which symbolize mourning... most likely mourning of the loss of their temple mount and homeland)
Also, 42 months is prophesied for the Gentiles to trodden down the outer court (court of the Gentiles) of the temple mount. That's where the Dome of the Rock is built, in the outer court.
365.24 days per year divided by 12 months = 30.44 days in a year
42 months X 30.44 days per month = 1278.48 days (day = year) or solar years
688.553 AD + 1278.48 years = 1967 AD (the year the Jews took back Jerusalem and the temple mount)
As you can see, the time of the end is clearly a long time, and since the 1,290 days and 1,260 days are known to be included in the 70th week, then we have now seen that the 70th week is actually a long period of time, not a short period of time.
Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy was given in 536 BC according to historians. Let's play with the numbers since this 70th week is a long time and different from the others.
7 days in a week. Each day for a year, so 7 years. How many days are in 7 years?
7 x 360 days per year in a Hebrew year = 2520 days/Hebrew years
2520 x .9857 = 2484 solar years
-536 BC + 2484 yrs = 1948 AD (Israel becomes a nation and the Great Tribulation ends)
Now, one thing that is NOT stated in Revelation is that the 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 vials must happen during the great tribulation. We are simply told about all of these things at the same time, so we have assumed for years that they must all happen during that tribulation period, but that is not specified in prophecy. I believe they've been happening for around 1700 years or so now, and we're not waiting on the 6th & 7th seals, trumpets and still waiting on all of the vials. We're never told the seals must all happen before the trumpets and before the vials. They just have to happen in order from 1 to 7 is all. The seals are the long story. Trumpets are a shorter story, and the vials all happen in the last few days or on the very last day. And the 6th & 7th seals, 7th trumpet and 7th vail are all describing one single event from three different perspectives. Lay out the 6th & 7th seals next to the 7th trumpet and 7th vial. Write down all the events side-by-side and compare. They're all the same events, more-or-less, and at least one of them cannot happen more than once. The islands and mountains cannot disappear more than once. Check out the Creation model/theory in order to see how you'd get rid of the mountains and oceans (which would eliminate the islands) by increasing the circumfrence of the earth's crust by putting the water underneith it as the Bible seems to suggest during the creation story.
The 70th week is over now, and we're in the time of the end, according to Daniel 12, and all we're waiting for now is for the 7 vials, armageddon and the 6th & 7th seals and 7th trumpet that happens at that time, and the rapture which happens between the 6th & 7th vials (read it in Revelation 16... you'll see the rapture there).
_____________________________
- Brian
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/20/2008 2:31:59 PM
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bob97
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quote:
-444 BC + 476 = 32 AD (the year historians believe Jesus was crucified)
Christ went to the cross on Nisan 14th which was a Wednesday and the only available dates for this to occur would have been 27AD or 30AD. This makes 30AD the most logical date, so already your premise is off by two years.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/20/2008 10:25:46 PM
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Midwest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
-444 BC + 476 = 32 AD (the year historians believe Jesus was crucified)
Christ went to the cross on Nisan 14th which was a Wednesday and the only available dates for this to occur would have been 27AD or 30AD. This makes 30AD the most logical date, so already your premise is off by two years.
Bob
Hi Bob Interesting, either the date history has for the year that the restoration order was given is wrong or the date you are using as the most logical date is wrong. JMHO but I believe there is sound historical proof that the restoration order was given in 444/445BC. Choose an article and read about it from this GOOGLE sEARCH or if you prefer do a search of your own using a search engine of your own choosing.
Dan 9:25/26 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:..."
Cephyr's math adds up and appears to fit the prophecy perfectly so why should we believe that Jesus died in 27 or 30AD, when those dates don't seem to match what the prophetic verses and history show?
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/20/2008 11:50:21 PM
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bob97
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Midwest…I have done a little research regarding the date of the restoration order and as I remember there is some confusion. That being said, I had pegged 444BC as that date.
Regardless, looking at things from the other end and after much study, I have convinced myself that Christ did go to the cross on a Wednesday, Nisan 14 and based on that, the only two Nisan 14th that fall on a Wednesday (within a range we are looking for) were in 27 and 30AD.
That being said, I have not attempted to reconcile the crucifixion from the 444BC date.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/21/2008 9:05:55 AM
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Midwest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Midwest…I have done a little research regarding the date of the restoration order and as I remember there is some confusion. That being said, I had pegged 444BC as that date.
Regardless, looking at things from the other end and after much study, I have convinced myself that Christ did go to the cross on a Wednesday, Nisan 14 and based on that, the only two Nisan 14th that fall on a Wednesday (within a range we are looking for) were in 27 and 30AD.
That being said, I have not attempted to reconcile the crucifixion from the 444BC date.
Bob
Can't blame me for asking, I can't gain an understanding of other beliefs if I don't ask.
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/22/2008 4:44:26 AM
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bitnpiece
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I thought April 17 would be an appropriate date to post Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 2, which centers on 'Messiah the Prince'....
I'll show how 62 weeks or 434 years are determined, commencing with the date 445 BC and concluding with the year 27 AD...
Thus, Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes remain a part of the first 7 weeks or 49 years, as it is written in 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah and Isaiah..
We can't remove these kings from their participation in the prophetic fulfillment of scripture, God's calendar of appointed times and events, simply because the years will not fit into one's personal interpretation.
bitnpiece..
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/22/2008 7:55:49 AM
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Cephyr13
Posts: 239
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From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
-444 BC + 476 = 32 AD (the year historians believe Jesus was crucified)
Christ went to the cross on Nisan 14th which was a Wednesday and the only available dates for this to occur would have been 27AD or 30AD. This makes 30AD the most logical date, so already your premise is off by two years.
Bob
Most historians agree on 32 AD, not 27AD - 30AD. There are many dating schemes that attempt to tell when Christ was crucified, but all historians agree that we cannot be sure on what year it happened. One thing is certain, though; no one can prove it historically. So, no, my premise is not off. The historians that have attempted to place it between 27 AD and 30 AD are just attempting to place it there, but have no solid backing. Notice even they themselves make it a range from 27 AD to 30 AD, proving they cannot even be sure about a particular year. It's their best guess according to historical documentation and historical calendar data. Just because man's dating system is flawed doesn't mean God's prophecies are incorrect. God knows what He's doing. ALL of the 13 numerical prophecies come out perfectly to the year they were prophecied to come out to, and man's inability to incorrectly tell dates from the past isn't going to change that.
_____________________________
- Brian
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/22/2008 8:01:46 AM
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Cephyr13
Posts: 239
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From: Dallas, TX
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A
quote:
ORIGINAL: bitnpiece
I thought April 17 would be an appropriate date to post Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 2, which centers on 'Messiah the Prince'....
I'll show how 62 weeks or 434 years are determined, commencing with the date 445 BC and concluding with the year 27 AD...
Thus, Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes remain a part of the first 7 weeks or 49 years, as it is written in 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah and Isaiah..
We can't remove these kings from their participation in the prophetic fulfillment of scripture, God's calendar of appointed times and events, simply because the years will not fit into one's personal interpretation.
bitnpiece..
I'll turn your statement around on you, as I did in the above post. Just because man hasn't the ability to properly track the dates in history properly doesn't make God's prophecies incorrect. They're dead on accurate. ALL of them. So, if you're going to say that supposedly 445 BC and the 62 weeks comes out perfectly to 27 AD, then you'll have to show how ALL of the numerical prophecies work out with this method, and that's where you're going to run into major problems. With the method I'm putting forth, ALL numerical prophecies work out perfectly in history according to historians' best estimates, not according to my best estimate or any other skewed attempts at best estimates on dates. Generally, what most historians believe is the proper date is what most people go with, because more historians have come to the same conclusion on that date. It seems far more reasonable than using a dating scheme that's less recognized.
But that's just my opinion... You're free to believe what you will. Not my place to say what you can and cannot believe.
_____________________________
- Brian
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/22/2008 11:32:57 AM
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bob97
Posts: 1764
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quote:
Most historians agree on 32 AD, not 27AD - 30AD. There are many dating schemes that attempt to tell when Christ was crucified, but all historians agree that we cannot be sure on what year it happened. One thing is certain, though; no one can prove it historically. So, no, my premise is not off. The historians that have attempted to place it between 27 AD and 30 AD are just attempting to place it there, but have no solid backing. Notice even they themselves make it a range from 27 AD to 30 AD, proving they cannot even be sure about a particular year. It's their best guess according to historical documentation and historical calendar data. Just because man's dating system is flawed doesn't mean God's prophecies are incorrect. God knows what He's doing. ALL of the 13 numerical prophecies come out perfectly to the year they were prophecied to come out to, and man's inability to incorrectly tell dates from the past isn't going to change that.
Have you done any research here? Can you show me any evidence that it was 32AD.
Don’t tell me that most research proves it to be 32AD. That is all based on the wrong interpretation in the KJV which assumes Friday to be the Passover Day.
Until you can present an augment that shows Friday to in fact be the Passover day then you have no basis for your statement.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/22/2008 3:37:46 PM
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Midwest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Most historians agree on 32 AD, not 27AD - 30AD. There are many dating schemes that attempt to tell when Christ was crucified, but all historians agree that we cannot be sure on what year it happened. One thing is certain, though; no one can prove it historically. So, no, my premise is not off. The historians that have attempted to place it between 27 AD and 30 AD are just attempting to place it there, but have no solid backing. Notice even they themselves make it a range from 27 AD to 30 AD, proving they cannot even be sure about a particular year. It's their best guess according to historical documentation and historical calendar data. Just because man's dating system is flawed doesn't mean God's prophecies are incorrect. God knows what He's doing. ALL of the 13 numerical prophecies come out perfectly to the year they were prophecied to come out to, and man's inability to incorrectly tell dates from the past isn't going to change that.
Have you done any research here? Can you show me any evidence that it was 32AD.
Don’t tell me that most research proves it to be 32AD. That is all based on the wrong interpretation in the KJV which assumes Friday to be the Passover Day.
Until you can present an augment that shows Friday to in fact be the Passover day then you have no basis for your statement.
Bob
Dan 9:25/26 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:..."
Let's take the first 7 weeks and add them to the 62 weeks to get 69 weeks. We'll start counting from 444 BC.(The year history shows to be the year the restoration commandment was given)
69 weeks x 7 days per week equals = 483 days (Hebrew years)
483 x .9857 = 476 solar years
-444 BC + 476 = 32 AD
Looks to me if we are going to believe the Scriptures the only choice we have is 32/33AD depending upon your view of the year zero. If historians say we should allow a 1-3 year ambiguity when it comes to hisorical dating how could we possibly know for sure what day of the week an event occured on?
JMHO but I don't see where we have any choice on the starting point and the math is fairly simple so I really don't see much choice but to use 444/445 unless it can be demonstrated that the date recorded in history (444/445 depending upon the source) as the year the restoration commandment went out is incorrect. I am no expert, does anyone have any legitimate reason to believe that the date recorded for the restoration command in history is incorrect?
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/22/2008 4:21:06 PM
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Cephyr13
Posts: 239
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Most historians agree on 32 AD, not 27AD - 30AD. There are many dating schemes that attempt to tell when Christ was crucified, but all historians agree that we cannot be sure on what year it happened. One thing is certain, though; no one can prove it historically. So, no, my premise is not off. The historians that have attempted to place it between 27 AD and 30 AD are just attempting to place it there, but have no solid backing. Notice even they themselves make it a range from 27 AD to 30 AD, proving they cannot even be sure about a particular year. It's their best guess according to historical documentation and historical calendar data. Just because man's dating system is flawed doesn't mean God's prophecies are incorrect. God knows what He's doing. ALL of the 13 numerical prophecies come out perfectly to the year they were prophecied to come out to, and man's inability to incorrectly tell dates from the past isn't going to change that.
Have you done any research here? Can you show me any evidence that it was 32AD.
Don’t tell me that most research proves it to be 32AD. That is all based on the wrong interpretation in the KJV which assumes Friday to be the Passover Day.
Until you can present an augment that shows Friday to in fact be the Passover day then you have no basis for your statement.
Bob
I never said passover was on a Friday. Personally, I think it was on a Wednesday. We just don't agree on the year.
And yes, I've done the research, and all I'm saying is that MOST scholars believe that 32 AD is the best estimation for when Christ was crucified. That's all I'm saying. You are welcome to look that up for yourself. I've seen great big books of dates for the Bible and most all of them say that historians, by-in-large, agree that 32 AD is when He was crucified. That's all I'm saying. If you are going against 32 AD, you are most welcome to do that, but just know that most historians and especially most Christians historians do not necessarily agree with you on that.
_____________________________
- Brian
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/22/2008 4:55:03 PM
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bob97
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From: Kansas
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quote:
I never said passover was on a Friday. Personally, I think it was on a Wednesday. We just don't agree on the year.
The problem that all of the date calculators give the same information...the only Wednesday dates were in 27 and 30AD.
27AD= Wed
28AD=Mon
29AD=Sat
30AD=Wed
31AD=Mon
32AD=Fri
33AD=Fri
34AD=Mon
35AD=Mon
The are the dates that Nisan 14th fell on.
Unless you can supply other data showing differently.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/28/2008 7:17:17 PM
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Cephyr13
Posts: 239
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
I never said passover was on a Friday. Personally, I think it was on a Wednesday. We just don't agree on the year.
The problem that all of the date calculators give the same information...the only Wednesday dates were in 27 and 30AD.
27AD= Wed
28AD=Mon
29AD=Sat
30AD=Wed
31AD=Mon
32AD=Fri
33AD=Fri
34AD=Mon
35AD=Mon
The are the dates that Nisan 14th fell on.
Unless you can supply other data showing differently.
Bob
We cannot even get the years correct back in those times, much less the days. I make no judgement on which days this may have happened. I just know what prophecy and history says.
In 8 BC there was a census taken. The Romans took a census every 14 years. We have archaeological pieces that prove there was a census in 20 AD. So, you go back 14 years to 6 AD, then 14 more years to 8 BC. So, Jesus was born around 8 BC or 6 AD. 6 AD doesn't work out at all with His age. So, 8 BC is more likely. If you go 40 years forward, you get 32 AD as the year He died, most likely. The Census is a more accurate way to tell Jesus age and when He was crucified. We don't know that he was 33. That's just a guess because someone says He's in his thirties. If He turned 40 the year He was crucified, that would make 32 AD the right year if He were born in 8 BC. That's how the theory goes anyway, and it seems to be a pretty solid one, especially since 40 is such a significant number in the Bible. I can see people listening to a 40 year old before I can see them listening to a 30 year old teaching about God. This makes a lot of sense all around...
_____________________________
- Brian
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/31/2008 4:51:18 AM
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bitnpiece
Posts: 12
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[/quote]
I'll turn your statement around on you, as I did in the above post. Just because man hasn't the ability to properly track the dates in history properly doesn't make God's prophecies incorrect. They're dead on accurate. ALL of them. So, if you're going to say that supposedly 445 BC and the 62 weeks comes out perfectly to 27 AD, then you'll have to show how ALL of the numerical prophecies work out with this method, and that's where you're going to run into major problems. that's less recognized.
[/quote]
Hi...Yes, 445 BC and the prophetic 62 weeks or 434 years do calculate out perfectly to 27 AD...
BTW..Did you bother to read Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1? It will give you a pretty good idea as to 'Part 2, The 62 Weeks' ..
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The following work is a labor of love..I wanted to share it here first, among family..
The chart below identifies:
Three kings and the dates of their commandment..
The number of years in each commandment..
Years converted to weeks..
Gaps found between the weeks..
Cyrus, 538-536 BC = 2yrs = 2/7 wks
Gap = 16 years
Darius, 520-486 BC = 34yrs = 4 6/7 wks
Gap = 28 years
Artaxerxes, 458-446 BC = 12yrs = 1 5/7 wks
The 2nd commandment appears to be an addition to the first, without a break in the weeks.
Artaxerxes, 445 BC = 1yr = 1/7 wk
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Number of years dating from Cyrus to Artaxerxes:
538-445BC = 93 years
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Fulfilled years of commandments:
2yrs + 34yrs + 12yrs + 1year = 49 years
Gaps between commandments:
16yrs + 28yrs = 44 years
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Years of commandments and gaps:
Commandments-49yrs + gaps-44yrs = 93 years
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Commandment years converted to weeks:
Cyrus 2/7 wks + Dauius 4 6/7 wks + Artaxerxes 1 5/7 wks + Artaxerxes 1/7 wk
Total-7 Weeks
bitnpiece
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 3/31/2008 9:20:50 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1668
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
Hi Bob Interesting, either the date history has for the year that the restoration order was given is wrong or the date you are using as the most logical date is wrong. JMHO but I believe there is sound historical proof that the restoration order was given in 444/445BC. Choose an article and read about it from this GOOGLE sEARCH or if you prefer do a search of your own using a search engine of your own choosing.
Dan 9:25/26 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:..."
Cephyr's math adds up and appears to fit the prophecy perfectly so why should we believe that Jesus died in 27 or 30AD, when those dates don't seem to match what the prophetic verses and history show?
Greetings,
BUT
after threescore and two weeks shall the Messiah be cut off, ...but not for himself:..."
If it were "not" for himself, then it must mean something else....
........Meaning..... He was not to be the anointing of the prophecy of Himself,
but that it be from God and given to another.
That statement alone eliminates any calculation as to date and time, Leaving that saying open for a prophetic reference, that it would therefore would be given to another,
the prophecy in Daniel is speaking of a prophetic revelation in reference to whom it will be given, which was not of Himself to prophesied of Himself.
The same as He did not partake of His own Last Supper.
So For the Messiah to be cut off, but not for himself, means it will be given to another to prophesied, which was already spoken by Jesus in John
John 21:22 - Show Context
Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me."
For example
Taken from the Last Supper is a picture of the Apostle John laying His Authority (his headship) that was given to Him by God, ............John at the table by the resting his head on the breast of Jesus.... is a picture of the breastplate of the High Priest and is where the Priest (John) receives the revelation.
And Rev 1:1 Is exactly written of how Jesus revealed the betrayer at the last supper… to that revelation given to John in
...........The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants--things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,.... to show His servants--things which must shortly ....therefore the reason many times John calls us his children….
The revelation is .....v23 He answered and said, "He who dipped his hand with Me in the dish will betray Me. 24 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, STOP NO MRE TO THE STORY!
= Messiah will be cut off, ==just as it is written of Him …no one else!!
This revelation was given to John, because Christ never did prophesy of Himself, who has been the same since the world began and for eternity…
............If Christ were to prophesy of Himself, ..........it would therefore be a contradiction that He existed before time began.
The HS prophesies of Christ and Christ crucified, not Christ!!!
= Messiah will be cut off, but not for himself = is the prophecy given to John to reiterate in the Book of Revelation as spoken by the prophet Daniel.
= but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed!
It would have been good for that man if he had not been born." (again)
What John reiterates in the Revelation is not the destruction of the temple, as Jesus said in Acts 1:6-7 which is a 40 year divine judgment....not the restoration of the temple!!!
The Book Rev 1 begins with the Churches… over a period of time, which is called a betrothal...where the Bride must prove to be faithful.
The tribulation begins in what is called the wedding announcement, which is in the Fathers authority, followed 7 years later by the consummation of all things = (John and Jesus.) = All righteousness)...
Loyal Gypsy
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 4/19/2008 1:18:52 PM
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bitnpiece
Posts: 12
Joined: 3/13/2008
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Part 2, "the Messiah the Prince" has been posted..
bitnpiece
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 4/20/2008 12:43:51 AM
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bitnpiece
Posts: 12
Joined: 3/13/2008
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quote:
Looked at the info at the link you provided, JMHO but I think there's another explanation for the sixty nine weeks of Dan9:25-26 that fits a little better.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
These verses tell us there are 69 weeks from the time the restoration order was given until the Messiah is cutoff. They also tell us these weeks start "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem". There were four restoration orders given so which of the four is the one that we should use. Once again the verses above tell us which one of the four. Out of the four restoration orders recorded in the Bible that gave the Jews permission to rebuild Jerusalem only one gave the Jews permission to rebuild Jerusalem and its walls. This restoration order granted by Artaxerxes I gave Nehemia permission to rebuild Jerusalem and its walls was given 444/445BC so this is the order that should be used as our starting point.
69 weeks x 7 = 483 prophetic years(360days) x .9857 = 476 solar years(365.24days).
444 BC + 476 years = 32 AD, the cross right to the year
So we see that the sixty nine weeks of Dan9:25-26 go from the retoration order(444BC) to the crucifixion(32AD) when the Messiah was cutoff
< Message edited by Midwest -- 4/18/2008 3:19:39 PM >
Midwest, When was Jesus born?
bitnpiece
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RE: Daniel's 70 Weeks: Part 1 - 4/20/2008 1:05:41 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 267
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
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Shalom, Midwest
You said,
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Most historians agree on 32 AD, not 27AD - 30AD. There are many dating schemes that attempt to tell when Christ was crucified, but all historians agree that we cannot be sure on what year it happened. One thing is certain, though; no one can prove it historically. So, no, my premise is not off. The historians that have attempted to place it between 27 AD and 30 AD are just attempting to place it there, but have no solid backing. Notice even they themselves make it a range from 27 AD to 30 AD, proving they cannot even be sure about a particular year. It's their best guess according to historical documentation and historical calendar data. Just because man's dating system is flawed doesn't mean God's prophecies are incorrect. God knows what He's doing. ALL of the 13 numerical prophecies come out perfectly to the year they were prophecied to come out to, and man's inability to incorrectly tell dates from the past isn't going to change that.
Have you done any research here? Can you show me any evidence that it was 32AD.
Don’t tell me that most research proves it to be 32AD. That is all based on the wrong interpretation in the KJV which assumes Friday to be the Passover Day.
Until you can present an augment that shows Friday to in fact be the Passover day then you have no basis for your statement.
Bob
Dan 9:25/26 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:..."
Let's take the first 7 weeks and add them to the 62 weeks to get 69 weeks. We'll start counting from 444 BC.(The year history shows to be the year the restoration commandment was given)
69 weeks x 7 days per week equals = 483 days (Hebrew years)
483 x .9857 = 476 solar years
-444 BC + 476 = 32 AD
Looks to me if we are going to believe the Scriptures the only choice we have is 32/33AD depending upon your view of the year zero. If historians say we should allow a 1-3 year ambiguity when it comes to hisorical dating how could we possibly know for sure what day of the week an event occured on?
JMHO but I don't see where we have any choice on the starting point and the math is fairly simple so I really don't see much choice but to use 444/445 unless it can be demonstrated that the date recorded in history (444/445 depending upon the source) as the year the restoration commandment went out is incorrect. I am no expert, does anyone have any legitimate reason to believe that the date recorded for the restoration command in history is incorrect?
When are you going to quit saying that the Jewish year is 360 days?!!! Their years HAVE to be the same as our years in the long run or their summer would soon turn into a winter and vice versa! Y | | |
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