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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/19/2008 8:29:00 PM
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Quasiblogo
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"BLT" is food without the true religion (re: James) that I believe the average BLTista thirsts for. BLTeachers remind me of ardent evolutionists: it is necessary to promulgate without acknowledging the original Mover and Shaker.
Quaz
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/19/2008 10:37:39 PM
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facedown
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earthless
"no reason"?
maybe, maybe not; however, it seems again worthy to note that this thread is not about wright.
and i'm still looking forward to some source documents for review - other than a quote here, or a quote there or an opinion.
any resources at all?
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 12:18:14 AM
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bob97
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I find it interesting the information on Dr James Cone that was contained on Wikipedia has been altered since this morning. The quotes from his book "Black Theology and Black Power" have been removed. Now I wonder why that happened?
Bob 
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 7:47:03 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
earthless
"no reason"?
maybe, maybe not; however, it seems again worthy to note that this thread is not about wright.
and i'm still looking forward to some source documents for review - other than a quote here, or a quote there or an opinion.
any resources at all?
Now you want to say this thread is not about Wright after three pages of both you and I discussing his comments/teachings?
C'mon, facedown.. let's keep it real all the way. No need to try to lay low in the weeds now...
One question from me to you, as it seems it's always the other way around, do you agree that Wright's teachings regarding race relations, etc are correct?
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 9:40:18 AM
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P31W
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I am speaking from the heart here as a middle age white woman raised in Mississippi.
Never in my life have I sat in a chruch that preached hate. I am so very disappointed that I never knew this type of stuff was so common in our country that a church filled with 8,000 members were going each week to sit under a what is called "well respected pastor" and cheer over such racist hate filled sermons.
I know that I have NEVER been exposed to such in my life. NEVER IN MY LIFE have I heard a white pastor degrate another race or try to build up one race over another. Not so much as a peep. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine being in a Chruch and hearing racist remarks that are greeted with cheers from the congregation. What I KNOW would happen is the pastor would be taken from behind GOD's Pulpit immediately and asked to leave. I know this would happen in all the churches I have been an active member of.
I honest feel TODAY that there are thousands of black people in this country in very high postions that simply hate me as a white person because I am white. I am simply blow away and so very disheartened by this.
If this view is incorrect I am sorry. For me nothing has hurt race relations as much in this country as the fact that a large number of people in the black community appears to hail racest ministers as true men of God and meet weekly to discuss political agendas rather than God's Word.
I am extremely hurt by this realization. I am extremely angry that God has been reduced to a pawn in a political game.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/20/2008 9:49:16 AM >
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 9:47:42 AM
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bob97
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I'm afraid that this story has just started to develop. Either way this coming election goes will breed a very difficult situation.
Bob
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 10:20:27 AM
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P31W
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quote:
do you believe that the quotes you provide about cone
The quote is not "about" Cone rather from him.
I am aware of how he defines "blackness" and "Uncle Toms". I am also aware that words carry with them meaning and power.
If a white minister began to call "whiteness" as favored of God and "blackness" something to be repented of......then there is a problem with both the minister and those who choose to "ingore" the ramifications of such stupid teaching. Even if "I" have chosen to in "My teachings" change the meaning of those terms.
I know full well what I am doing when the "meanings" of those terms have been changed inorder to allow ME to preach and teach racial hatred - TRYING to make my false doctrine legit by saying I am a man of God - a "prophet of God". (remember in the OT prophets were to be put to death if they ever said something was from God and it was proven incorrect - in the OT a Prophet put their "life on the line" when they "spoke from God".....
Only a "fool" in my opinion would not recognize this game.
The term Christian also carries with it a meaning. I fear many "true Christian" have been fooled by the "religious terms" being used that have had thier common meaning changed. I know I was. But not anymore.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/20/2008 10:32:05 AM >
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 10:53:29 AM
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Yoelnatan780
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
earthless
that may not be the "question" - but the question in this thread *is* "black liberation theology"
Yes, revolving around Jeremiah Wright's preachings. Do you still disagree with my comment that we are all one race at the foot of the cross? That God does not make distinctions between color of skin, ethnic creed, etc...
powerful post earthless
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 10:56:09 AM
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Yoelnatan780
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I must admit I have only seen sipnets of wrights church, but if that is the picture non believers are getting of Christianity then I don't know what to say
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 1:18:15 PM
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P31W
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It's not Christanity. It's a political group who "uses" religious terms inorder to get tax exempt status.
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 1:32:04 PM
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facedown
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earthless
post 54: three pages of discussing wright? when have i discussed wright? i believe my post 54 was the 3rd attempt to state this thread is not about wright, and at least that many times i have asked you for where you're getting your sources, so that they might be reviewed - other than a quote here, or a quote there.
post 55: so, you're suggesting that wiki cannot be trusted? if you visit the page dedicated to james cone, you'll see some very controversial statements - they were there at around 5 am this morning, so i'm not sure what bob's referring to.
p31w
though i was not raised in the 'south' i live here now, just outside of montgomery. it's a different environment here for sure for a variety of reasons; however, like you i've never witnessed any racially controversial statements made from church.
what do you make of james cone being a professor at a seminary, whose dean is white...just out of curiosity?
to me, it seems that maybe something else is going on in his dictionary - and it seems to be that way from some interviews i read in the past couple of days. i don't think this excuses an abuse of language; however.
i realize the quotes were not 'about' cone, but by him - just as the ones i proved were 'by' him, not 'about' him. call it a fat finger mistake.
and if folks in question in this thread are not preaching "christianity" - what do you believe the consequence is? are they spawns from hell?
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 1:52:49 PM
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bob97
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quote:
"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us, if God is not against white racists, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill gods that do not belong to the black community." [A Black Theology of Liberation, p. 27]
"Black theology cannot accept a view of God which does not represent God as being for oppressed blacks and thus against white oppressors. Living in a world of white oppressors, blacks have no time for a neutral God. The brutalities are too great and the pain too severe, and this means we must know where God is and what God is doing in the revolution. There is no use for a God who loves white oppressors the same as oppressed blacks. We have had too much of white love, the love that tells blacks to turn the other cheek and go the second mile. What we need is the divine love as expressed in black power, which is the power of blacks to destroy their oppressors, here and now, by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject God's love." [A Black Theology of Liberation, p. 70]
All I can conclude is that any church that would preach this dogma is worshiping another God from the one that I worship. Any theology that preaches racial divide,hate and the destruction of another race are not teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Bob
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The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 2:20:12 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
I am speaking from the heart here as a middle age white woman raised in Mississippi.
Never in my life have I sat in a chruch that preached hate. I am so very disappointed that I never knew this type of stuff was so common in our country that a church filled with 8,000 members were going each week to sit under a what is called "well respected pastor" and cheer over such racist hate filled sermons.
I know that I have NEVER been exposed to such in my life. NEVER IN MY LIFE have I heard a white pastor degrate another race or try to build up one race over another. Not so much as a peep. I can't in my wildest dreams imagine being in a Chruch and hearing racist remarks that are greeted with cheers from the congregation. What I KNOW would happen is the pastor would be taken from behind GOD's Pulpit immediately and asked to leave. I know this would happen in all the churches I have been an active member of.
I honest feel TODAY that there are thousands of black people in this country in very high postions that simply hate me as a white person because I am white. I am simply blow away and so very disheartened by this.
If this view is incorrect I am sorry. For me nothing has hurt race relations as much in this country as the fact that a large number of people in the black community appears to hail racest ministers as true men of God and meet weekly to discuss political agendas rather than God's Word.
I am extremely hurt by this realization. I am extremely angry that God has been reduced to a pawn in a political game.
I too was raised in the deep South and never heard anything racially against any group or person like that from a puplit, even during the 60s in the midst of the civil rights movement. Our pastors did more to calm tempers and remind us we are all descended from Adam.
I am thoroughly shocked to know it has happened within the last 10 years anywhere in this country.
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 2:38:46 PM
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P31W
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quote:
if folks in question in this thread are not preaching "christianity" - what do you believe the consequence is? are they spawns from hell?
They are lost and are going to spend an eternity in hell. We are talking about a group of lost people who use God's name for their own purposes. They NEED to hear the clear gospel of Jesus Christ taught to them. I am sure that many have heard the clear gospel and have read it in the bible they own but have chosen to hearden their hearts to him and/or completely outright reject him.
quote:
what do you make of james cone being a professor at a seminary, whose dean is white...just out of curiosity?
I don't know anything about the seminary. The dean being white is not what I question here or cone being a professor. What I question is what the seminary calls "the gospel message" and what they teach and true vs false doctrine.
What this mess is going to do is spur up people who are in the KKK or close to it. Now how in the world do I explain to people why it's OK for a black man to hold racist views and be our president but not OK for a white man to hold racist views and hold a political position.
I was/am "anti" David Duke.
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 3:43:30 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
earthless
post 54: three pages of discussing wright? when have i discussed wright? i believe my post 54 was the 3rd attempt to state this thread is not about wright,
It is about the teaching "theology" that Wright has incorporated into his teachings. You don't seem to like the fact of what is being presented. Why? I have no clue unless you agree with his teachings, do you?
quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
and at least that many times i have asked you for where you're getting your sources, so that they might be reviewed - other than a quote here, or a quote there.
Sources? Have you not read a newspaper or watched the news at all in the last two weeks? Media outlet after media outlet, especially right-wing ones, have been playing the video and audio clips of Wright non-stop.
Are you asking me to link you to some of those clips? How about a link to him & his church giving Farrakhan a 'Lifetime Achievement' aware? Or how about a link to Wright's trip with Libyan officials?
quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
post 55: so, you're suggesting that wiki cannot be trusted? if you visit the page dedicated to james cone, you'll see some very controversial statements - they were there at around 5 am this morning, so i'm not sure what bob's referring to.
Wikipedia is a great source of information.. but it is not absolute truth. Anyone with an account, which I have had one for some years, can easily alter the entries on there.
I do have something else to say to you - what is your point in all of this? Are you really this confused about whether or not these teachings are vile and contrary to Scripture? Are you arguing with us simply for the sake of arguing? To get the "last" word? Or are you a sympathizer and supporters of these kind of racist teachings?
Can you please be objective about this, for once, and let us know what you're really thinking and where you're really coming from?
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 4:55:30 PM
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P31W
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SammyS,
Thank you. I needed to hear that.
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 7:45:43 PM
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bob97
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quote:
post 55: so, you're suggesting that wiki cannot be trusted? if you visit the page dedicated to james cone, you'll see some very controversial statements - they were there at around 5 am this morning, so i'm not sure what bob's referring to
It was a totally different page last night, then this morning the original content was replaced and added to. The quotes from the "A Black Theology of Liberation" were replaced and actually the full quotes were added back, where as they were abbreviated originally.
Bob
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 7:51:34 PM
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bob97
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Amen Sammy...skin color should not be an issue. I try to look at the person and it only becomes an issue when there is a personally issue.
But I have to admit...today watching NCAA Basketball and following my KU team the thought did run through my mind...I wonder how these young men view the world.
Bob
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The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 9:57:03 PM
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facedown
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bob97
yes, i've read that excerpt.
what do you make of this interview?
p31w
well....at least you're not afraid to state what the natural conclusion is to the argument(s) presented here.
if you don't know anything about the seminary in question, here's their website.
earthless
what i have issue with, i suppose is pure opinion and then broad sweeping conclusions like "he's going to hell". i have no issue with "right-wing" sources, so long as it's balanced with other sources as well. i can't base an opinion on someone elses opinion. certainly even you understand that?
sammy
while i happen to 'like' obama, i too wish that folks would not become so locking into a very finite and somewhat distorted view of language. peace
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 10:17:44 PM
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bob97
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Facedown…Cones is just continuing to blame the white race for the suppression of the black community. Sure there have been suppression by the white majority in the past but for the most part, these things have been equalized.
Frankly I ascribe more to Bill Cosby theology for the social enlightenment of the black race than I do Cones.
Bob
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 10:43:34 PM
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facedown
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bob
i've only heard a few snippets from bill - and man, i loved it. good stuff
however, that being said, i'm not certain your generalized conclusion is adequate or as accurate as it ought to be.
are you in agreement with p31w? folks who find themselves teaching "black liberation theology" are damned to burn in hell?
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 11:19:39 PM
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bob97
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facedown...
I am not inclined to judge anyone; I’ll let Christ do that. Let me say this though…if I personally were preaching that kind of theology to anyone, believing what I do today, I would not consider myself to be on sound footing with my Lord and Master. I know I wouldn’t want to be responsible for someone else losing their soul.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Bob
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The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Black liberation theology - 3/20/2008 11:23:00 PM
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bob97
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facedown…maybe you have not heard what Cosby has to say about the social reasonability of the black community.
Bob
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