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RE: Black liberation theology

 
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RE: Black liberation theology - 5/5/2008 5:53:52 PM   
GrahamCracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CropDuster

Liberation Theology has a place in Christianity. It has accomplished much good in many communities. African-Americans are certainly entitled to invoke its spirit from time to time, given America's regrettable legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. But, it's only one aspect of Christian theology, one of many, and the fight for social justice which it encourages, isn't the primary means of one's salvation. Therefore, Liberation Theology shouldn't become the primary focus of any Christian. It's a topic for periodic examination and discussion, a framework for Christian justice-making, but not the essence of Christianity. In the end, the individual must earn his salvation by living a good life.


Frankly, from my limited reading so far, BLT takes one part of the Bible, distorts it and makes it primary.

For example, the Bible's plea for justice and equity is certainly biblical, but that is not central. The Jews were certainly oppressed by the Romans--probably far more than its regular citizens were oppressed by their leaders. Moreover, when the Jews sought for Christ to overthrow the Roman government in His role as Messiah, He rejected their plea. He wanted to save them from their sin. He wanted them to repent of their sin.

God dealt with the Romans later on in His own time.

_____________________________

Larry

Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
Post #: 151
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 12:32:36 AM   
bob97


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Someone needs to give me scripture that shows the bible supports BLT.

The Bible teaches us to summit to authority and accept our station in life and do it willingly. The only time we are told to rebel is when we are not free to worship and then we are to do it passively.

Bob

_____________________________

The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
Post #: 152
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 6:30:40 AM   
GrahamCracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

Someone needs to give me scripture that shows the bible supports BLT.

The Bible teaches us to summit to authority and accept our station in life and do it willingly. The only time we are told to rebel is when we are not free to worship and then we are to do it passively.

Bob


Bob,

I certainly don't support BLT theology but part of its biblical appeal is the Bible's plea for justice for the poor. I don't have time to go into it right now but the book of James has several sections regarding that theme.

It's not like there is absolutely nothing there. I heard a BLT advocate on NPR the other day and he quoted many many verses and many of them seemed to be in context. However, as I said before, BLT makes them central and ignores the fact that Christ didn't discuss the faults of the Romans.

And frankly, I have never yet heard of a BLT advocate calling for the overthrow of the US government. Maybe they do or maybe they don't. But people can certainly use it for that.

_____________________________

Larry

Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
Post #: 153
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 10:30:05 AM   
rcjames


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Well one thing I find wrong with BLT is that it all about discontentment, and that is in contrast to Scripture as we are told to be content where ever we are.

As Paul put it; (Php 4:11) Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.


Thanks
RC

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Post #: 154
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 5:04:43 PM   
GrahamCracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

Well one thing I find wrong with BLT is that it all about discontentment, and that is in contrast to Scripture as we are told to be content where ever we are.

As Paul put it; (Php 4:11) Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.


Thanks
RC


Very good.

_____________________________

Larry

Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
Post #: 155
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 5:33:56 PM   
colliefan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CropDuster
Liberation Theology has a place in Christianity. It has accomplished much good in many communities. African-Americans are certainly entitled to invoke its spirit from time to time, given America's regrettable legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. But, it's only one aspect of Christian theology, one of many, and the fight for social justice which it encourages, isn't the primary means of one's salvation. Therefore, Liberation Theology shouldn't become the primary focus of any Christian. It's a topic for periodic examination and discussion, a framework for Christian justice-making, but not the essence of Christianity. In the end, the individual must earn his salvation by living a good life.


Apparently, you don't know the essence of Christianity. It's Jesus Cjrist's death on the cross and his ressurrection that IS the essence of Christianity. No wonder you believe LT is a good thing because it believes the same as you.

< Message edited by colliefan -- 5/6/2008 5:40:53 PM >


_____________________________

The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
Post #: 156
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 5:46:30 PM   
GrahamCracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

Apparently, you don't know the essence of Christianity. It's Jesus Cjrist's death on the cross and his ressurrection that IS the essence of Christianity. No wonder you believe LT is a good thing because it believes the same as you.


Collie,

I heard a guy on the radio the other day. I don't know if his beliefs were representative of the essence of BLT or not. He may have toned it down for the benefit of a mixed radio audience. He didn't sound anything like Jeremiah Wright but he certainly did not seem to want to say anything bad about him either. So, I assume he toned it down.

Anyway, that speaker (it was an interview) referenced scripture (and even salvation through faith in Christ) but it (salvation) did not seem central. As I recall, he seemed to be closer to evangelical Christianity than J. Wright. I don't know.

I want to give credible due and not misrepresent those guys. The BLT thing might not be monolithic. Knowing human nature and philosophical systems, I would imagine that it is not. They may run the gamut.

Sorry for rambling....

_____________________________

Larry

Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
Post #: 157
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 5:53:58 PM   
tracydolls


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quote:

BLT tells the black man that he is "poor" if his income is less than the white man he sees. He can be getting three squares, a car and a roof over his head but if his home is not as nice as the other guy's, he's being "exploited."


People were exploited in this country.

quote:

BLT declares for black men everywhere to proclaim their victim status and overthrow the oppressors (meaning those who have more material wealth)


Those who material wealth from 200+ years of slavery.

quote:

In pre-Civil Rights America, many people were told to sit in the back of the bus and that their grandparents were slaves. Because of that, people can proclaim their victim status even if they weren't alive then.


If my father was lynched pre-civil rights era, and his land stolen am I a victim of what some white people did? hint 15 million acres of land stolen since 1900 from blacks, by force, lynchings, erc.



quote:

And, like its communistic cousin, BLT rouses people to envy what others have, the very thing scripture warns us against.


I don' think it is envy because the NOI are very wealthy, and they support BLT as I do not.

_____________________________

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Post #: 158
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 5:57:00 PM   
tracydolls


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quote:

As Paul put it; (Php 4:11) Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.



We are to be conent with what we have, we are to mourn when bad leaders come about.

Pro 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.


alot of people have been mourning fro a while, that's why BLT came about

_____________________________

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Post #: 159
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 5:59:09 PM   
tracydolls


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quote:

God dealt with the Romans later on in His own time.



i think that's what BLT is waiting for or trying to bring about. the americans paying for her oppression.

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Post #: 160
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 7:26:54 PM   
colliefan

 

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quote:

If my father was lynched pre-civil rights era, and his land stolen am I a victim of what some white people did?



NO. That terrible act would have been committed against your father and not you.

_____________________________

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A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
Post #: 161
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 7:31:19 PM   
earthless


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

alot of people have been mourning fro a while, that's why BLT came about


Yet, a lot of what BLT advocates "mourn" is untrue, false conspiracies and articles which no one alive today is responsible for nor should be made to pay entitlement to.

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Post #: 162
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 9:21:47 PM   
bob97


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I will more than likely get stomped on for asking this question but here goes.

Where would the black race be today if slavery would not have existed, if the ancestors were never introduced to this country ...would they be living in Africa and if so many alive today would not be because of the hardships of life in that Nation.

It would appear that although slavery is a very bad thing some good did come from the introduction.

I know if I were faced with what could have happened, I personally think I would be glad I had the opportunity to be born in this country rather than a third world environment such as Africa.

This nation not having to face the issue of slavery and the resulting tribulation might be a very different nation today and not necessarily better

Did anyone ever think perhaps God brought the black race here for a reason, not so unlike the Jews being introduced into the rest of the world when God made them captive to other nations?

Bob

_____________________________

The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
Post #: 163
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/6/2008 9:37:11 PM   
GrahamCracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

quote:

BLT tells the black man that he is "poor" if his income is less than the white man he sees. He can be getting three squares, a car and a roof over his head but if his home is not as nice as the other guy's, he's being "exploited."


People were exploited in this country.


I'm not sure how that responds to my point. Not all of us exploited people. I haven't. My folks were poor too when they were married. I paid for my own college through the sweat of my own brow. I attended college and have worked or tried to work my entire life.

From 1978-1983, I was unemployed most of the time and had a little money saved. I almost never went on dates. I was never drunk nor took drugs and I had no offspring out of wedlock.

quote:

quote:

BLT declares for black men everywhere to proclaim their victim status and overthrow the oppressors (meaning those who have more material wealth)


Those who material wealth from 200+ years of slavery.


What wealth do you suppose I have 200 years later?

I don't have any of that and neither do my relatives. I entered the work force after the Civil Rights movement. I have no land from the pre-Civil Rights era and none of my jobs were acquired as the result of being white.

As a matter of fact, in my jobs, so far as I know, affirmative action diluted any possibility of preferential treatment. Generally, employers were often required to hire a certain percentage of minorities. The employers would get tax breaks if they hired minorities. I actually had an employer ask everyone (including me) if they had received welfare or federal benefits prior to their hire. He (the employer) could get a tax break if he hired anyone off of the welfare rolls.

quote:

quote:

In pre-Civil Rights America, many people were told to sit in the back of the bus and that their grandparents were slaves. Because of that, people can proclaim their victim status even if they weren't alive then.


If my father was lynched pre-civil rights era, and his land stolen am I a victim of what some white people did? hint 15 million acres of land stolen since 1900 from blacks, by force, lynchings, erc.


Was he? Or is this just speculation? I don't have any of that land. My grandparents purchased and maintained their land through hard work just like everyone else. It was not cash producing land. And this is not a zero-sum game, where my acquisition takes away from anyone else. In many of my jobs, employers wanted to hire anyone who was willing to work cheerfully and enthusiastically, show up on time and never call in sick or drunk. In some of my jobs, that was a difficult achievement for some--black or white or indifferent.

quote:

quote:

And, like its communistic cousin, BLT rouses people to envy what others have, the very thing scripture warns us against.


I don' think it is envy because the NOI are very wealthy, and they support BLT as I do not.

It is difficult to interpret your sentence written above.

I attend a church were there are some wealthy people and some are poor. It is certainly difficult to not notice that they have more. Through either an accident of birth or other factors, some people are wealthy and some are not. The Bible does not teach that we should equalize all of our possessions. It DOES teach that the wealthy should not oppress the poor.

If I complain that they have something I don't--I can certainly attempt to deny that it's envy--but it certainly is envy. It is also coveting someone else's material possessions. The Bible tells us not to do that.

en·vy
1: painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/envy

Look. Some of my ancestors owned slaves. I know that because of some documents I read. I apologize for them because they are not here to repent. But there were no plantations in the part of the South where they lived. Likely they own less than a half-dozen. I have not acquired any wealth as the result of the land they owned. I am descended eight generations, all through female offspring--since that time.

I have no money, land nor status as the result of that. None, zilch. I have never been in a position of power over anyone--much less a minority person. Generally, I have been a peon just like everyone else.

And I cannot change what my ancestors did. The past is past. I did not participate in their sins, real and imagined. I am sorry they did it.

< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 5/6/2008 10:02:52 PM >


_____________________________

Larry

Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
Post #: 164
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/7/2008 12:08:59 AM   
bob97


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Tracy,

My Great,Great,Great Grandfather was Henry Laurens who succeeded John Hancock as President of the Congress in 1777. It is said that he shed tears at the signing of the Declaration of Independences.

Henry at the age of 23 took over his fathers Plantation in South Carolina. It is said that he was a strong opponent of slavery. The Plantation did have slaves when he took over but it is said that he treated them with much consideration and dignity.

I just wanted to let you know that there were important people in the South during those early years, who were opposed to slavery and treated those slaves who did live on their land with kindness. Sadly not everyone felt in kind.

Bob

_____________________________

The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
Post #: 165
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/14/2008 7:49:18 AM   
P31W

 

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quote:

my point is that BLT would not have evolved IF Christians were following the teaching of Christ.


But BLT has no problem with abortion. I have heard Rev. Wright speak out FOR abortion on a few occasions. We all know Obama has no problem with "partial birth abortions".

Christians by in large are anti-abortion. By you logic "abortion" would not be legalized in this country if "Christians were following the teachings of Christ".

The truth is Satan is the reason abortion and BLT exist. Satan is alive and well in the world. He is working against Christ and against Christians who stand tall speaking the truth.

Our fight is not against "flesh and blood". Don't blame Christians for the "sins" of the world.

Notice God did not blame "Christians" for the rise of false teachers.

2 John 1

7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

< Message edited by P31W -- 5/14/2008 8:37:04 AM >
Post #: 166
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/14/2008 7:51:59 AM   
P31W

 

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quote:

then I would suggest you are not looking very hard. They are all over the web


Tracey I don't look for preachers on the web.
Post #: 167
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/14/2008 7:57:28 AM   
P31W

 

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quote:

I really think its issues are racial and economic rather than Christian.


BINGO Larry Bingo.

quote:

And I cannot change what my ancestors did. The past is past. I did not participate in their sins, real and imagined. I am sorry they did it.


Correct Larry. More importantly God tells us in His Word that we are not going to be held accountable for the "sins" of our fathers. I would think people of ALL races would praise God for that. I know I am glad my son won't be held accountable for my and my husbands sins.

quote:

And frankly, I have never yet heard of a BLT advocate calling for the overthrow of the US government. Maybe they do or maybe they don't. But people can certainly use it for that.


Cain Hope Felder is a noted BLT scholar. He critizes James Cones for leaving the door open to violent overthrow of "whites" and not being more "pro active" in telling them it's time to move now. That was back in the 70's that he began to criticize Cones. If you notice Wright's website he metions Felder as one of the founders of contributors to BLT. There are some who "do" teach violent overthrow of "whites", "white Chruches" and their "white God"......I take that to also mean our government.

(it's almost like "code" when you read what they teach)

< Message edited by P31W -- 5/14/2008 8:41:26 AM >
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RE: Black liberation theology - 5/14/2008 8:39:01 AM   
P31W

 

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Several of you have mentioned that BLT is not the norm in black chruch. I want to thank you for saying that. I did some research on my own and found some stats that are fairly recent. They showed that less than 10% of black preachers said they had ever 'heard" of BLT. That told me alot.
Post #: 169
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/14/2008 8:48:19 AM   
P31W

 

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quote:

quote:

Like P31W, I have never, ever heard such hate preached by a white man, ever. I don't deny that racism and oppression exist, but whites are not the exclusive perpetrators. My African husband has been treated worst by American blacks. Figure that one out

reply Tracy

then I would suggest you are not looking very hard. They are all over the web.

Your husband forebears probaly helped to sell some American blacks forebears. Europeans did not go into the interior of Africa very much during slavery.


Tracey you have a race problem. I find what you said above to be very telling and it's not OK in my book. Someone should have reported that earlier.
Post #: 170
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/14/2008 6:23:49 PM   
GrahamCracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W

Tracey you have a race problem. I find what you said above to be very telling and it's not OK in my book. Someone should have reported that earlier.


In her defense, she indicated that she had come a long long way.

_____________________________

Larry

Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
Post #: 171
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/17/2008 9:00:41 PM   
tracydolls


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quote:

Where would the black race be today if slavery would not have existed, if the ancestors were never introduced to this country ...would they be living in Africa and if so many alive today would not be because of the hardships of life in that Nation.


i think if you replace the 10 million Africans and all their gold, oil, diamonds they would do better. The first Chrsitian Church is in Ethiopia, so they had the Word.

quote:

My Great,Great,Great Grandfather was Henry Laurens who succeeded John Hancock as President of the Congress in 1777.


I know exactly who Henry Laurens was a shipper of slaves, I just read a book from another relative-Edward Ball "Slaves in my Family"

It doesnt portray Henry like you do.

My family is the Whitfield's. Look them up.

quote:

I am sorry they did it.


Sometimes a simple sorry is all that it takes. Thank you.


quote:

Your husband forebears probaly helped to sell some American blacks forebears. Europeans did not go into the interior of Africa very much during slavery.

Tracey you have a race problem. I find what you said above to be very telling and it's not OK in my book. Someone should have reported that earlier.


P31w so do you girlfriend, so do you! Let's pray that we all get rid of our racism. I think BO is one of our last chances.


I told the truth, AFricans did help to sell other Africans.

Could I have done it in a better way? Of course. I hope that she forgives me.

Every year I keep winning the most blunt contest, even when I'm trying for the most kind one.



Larry, Thanks I'm a work in progress, have taken the first step, recognizing that I do have a problem.

I have started to reach out to my white mother. I no longer ban white people from house. Took down my "colored only" sign. No longer live by stuff like the BLT junk. No longer believe violence is the answer to every racial slur, or act.

But keep prayin for me, it's hard during this election season.

_____________________________

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Post #: 172
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/18/2008 12:22:41 AM   
bob97


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Depends who you want to trust Tracy…the family journal or someone else with an agenda. But then I guess you are inclined to believe what you want to believe.

Tracy here is a letter written from Henry Laurens to his father;



My dear Father.

The more I reflect upon the difficulties and delays which are likely to attend the completing our Continental Regiments—the more anxiously is my mind bent upon the Scheme which I lately, communicated to you—the obstacles to the execution of it had presented themselves to me, but by no means appeared insurmountable—I was aware of having that monster popular Prejudice open-mouthed against me—of undertaking to transform beings almost irrational into well disciplined Soldiers—of being obliged to combat the arguments and perhaps the intrigues of interested persons—but zeal for the public Service and an ardent desire to assert the rights of humanity determined me to engage in this arduous business, with the sanction of your Consent—my own perseverance aided by the Countenance of a few virtuous men will I hope enable me to accomplish it—

You seem to think my dear Father, that men reconciled by long habit to the miseries of their Condition, would prefer their ignominious bonds to the untasted Sweets of Liberty, especially when offer’d upon the terms which I propose—I confess indeed that, the minds of this unhappy species must be debased by a Servitude from which they can hope for no Relief but Death—and that every motive to action but Fear, must be nearly extinguished in them—but do you think they are so perfectly moulded to their State as to be insensible that a better exists—will the galling comparison between themselves and their masters leave them unenlighten’d in this respect—can their Self-Love be so totally annihilated as not frequently to induce ardent wishes for a change—

You will accuse me perhaps my dearest friend of consulting my own feelings too much but I am tempted to believe that this trampled people have so much human left in them, is to be capable of aspiring to the rights of men by noble exertions if some friend to mankind would point the Road, and give them a prospect of Success-If I am mistaken in this, I would avail myself even of their weakness, and conquering one fear by another, produce equal good to the Public—You will ask in this view how do you consult the benefit of the Slaves—I answer that like other men, they are the Creatures of habit, their Cowardly Ideas will be gradually effaced, and they will be modified anew—their being rescued from a State of perpetual humiliation—and being advanced as it were in die Scale of being will compensate the dangers incident to their new State —the hope that will spring in each mans mind respecting his own escape—will prevent his being miserable—those who fall in battle will not lose much-those who survive will obtain their Reward—

Habits of Subordination—Patience under fatigues, Sufferings and Privations of every kind—are soldierly qualifications which these men possess in an eminent degree.

Upon the whole my dearest friend and father, I hope that my plan for serving my Country and the oppressed Negro-race will not appear to you the Chimara of a young mind deceived by a false appearance of moral beauty—but a laudable sacrifice of private Interest to Justice and the Public good—

You say that my own resources would be small, on account of the proportion of women and children—I do not know whether I am right for I speak from impulse and have not reasoned upon the matter—I say Altho my plan is at once to give freedom to the Negroes and gain Soldiers to the States;—in case of concurrence I shd: sacrifice the former interest, and therefore wd. change the Women and Children for able bodied men—the more of these I could obtain the better but 4o might be a good foundation to begin upon—

It is a pity that some such plan as I propose could not be more extensively executed by public Authority—a well chosen body of 5000 black men properly officer’d to act as light Troops in addition to our present establishment, might give us decisive Success in the next Campaign—

I have long deplored the wretched State of these men and considered in their history, the bloody wars excited in Africa to furnish America with Slaves—the Groans of despairing multitudes toiling for the Luxuries of Merciless Tyrants—I have had the pleasure of conversing with you sometimes upon the means of restoring them to their rights—When can it be better done, than when their enfranchisement may be made conducive to the Public Good, and be so modified as not to overpower their weak minds—

You ask what is the General’s opinion upon this subject—he is convinced that the numerous tribes of blacks in the Southern parts of the Continent offer a resource to us that should not be neglected—with respect to my particular Plan, he only objects to it with the arguments of Pity, for a man who would be less rich than he might be—

I am obliged my dearest Friend and Father to take my leave for the present, you will excuse whatever exceptionable may have escaped in the course of my Letter—and accept the assurances of filial Love and Respect of

Your Son


So I guess you will just have to believe who you will.




Bob

_____________________________

The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
Post #: 173
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/18/2008 5:17:16 PM   
GrahamCracker


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quote:

quote:

Where would the black race be today if slavery would not have existed, if the ancestors were never introduced to this country ...would they be living in Africa and if so many alive today would not be because of the hardships of life in that Nation.

i think if you replace the 10 million Africans and all their gold, oil, diamonds they would do better. The first Chrsitian Church is in Ethiopia, so they had the Word.


I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here. Obviously, colonialism as it was conducted has had a detrimental effect on Africa. Africa is a continent of great wealth that has been exploited and is being exploited.

Usually, the basic philosphies underlying selfishness makes much of Africa to continue to be thired world. If the anti-god, immoral trend in the USA continues largely unabated, it is hard for me to imagine that America will not be a third world country.
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Every year I keep winning the most blunt contest, even when I'm trying for the most kind one.

Tracy, Keep doing what you're doing. It's refreshing. I really don't mind bluntness if it doesn't come with an attitude. By "attitude," I mean people who will not ask for forgiveness (whites) and those who will not forgive (white or black).

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Larry, Thanks I'm a work in progress, have taken the first step, recognizing that I do have a problem.

You're a sinner, like me and the rest of us. We all struggle with sin. Generally, we are blindsided by our own denial.

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No longer believe violence is the answer to every racial slur, or act.

But keep prayin for me, it's hard during this election season.


Many people don't realize that Dr. King had an in-house debate with the violent activists of his day. Some advocated violence as a part of the civil rights struggle. Dr. King actually opposed that. Many in the white community don't realize they had that debate.

< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 5/18/2008 5:23:58 PM >


_____________________________

Larry

Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
Post #: 174
RE: Black liberation theology - 5/18/2008 7:16:29 PM