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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/27/2008 9:31:50 AM
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P31W
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quote:
To pull this back to topic, I think it's not fair to judge another household by what I do. Like P31W for instance. We disagree, but it's okay.
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But if for some reason he ever found himself needing to wash dishes or clothes, I'm assuning he would do it without feeling like it was beneath him.
Bzirk,
I have been thinking about this overnight and not sure that we disagree with each other at all. In fact I believe we may just be on the same page. The term you selected "beneath him" kept rolling around in my head and I could not figure out "why" you would think that.
What I have been discussing is not an "attitude that I am too good to do such and such" rather the reality that too many young adults "can't" do any better than dust a house and have no clue how to do anything with that skill or how to provide for themself.
What I am saying is that doing dishes should not be a "major" experience for a "pre-adult". One should not reach adulthood - age 18 - and the biggest thing they can do is clean a house and sit in a classroom. It's one thing to learn a skill and another thing to know what to "do" with the skill.
I am not looking at the "min" one should be able to do rather let's admit to ourselves that our "kids" are no longer "kids" when they turn 18. They are "adults". The teenage years should not be spend learning to do things that should have been learned in early childhood and then have them trying to learn things that should have been learned in the teenage years when they are adults.
Extending "teenage years" into adulthood has proven to be a huge mistake.
I honestly think we are on the "same page" here.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/27/2008 9:39:05 AM >
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/27/2008 10:01:43 AM
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bzirk
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I think we are more on the same page. Part of the problem is in the term "household chores." It conjures up all sorts of things for people. For me that does not necessarily equate to doing dishes, but it does equate to my kids keeping their rooms clean and picking up their own messes. That much I definitely attach to the term. I also think that knowing how to do dishes and laundry are good things, but that doens't mean that mine do it all the time.
As for personal experiences, I had to do both (work and run the household). My mother moved away for three years, and I ran the household (except in the summers when she came home from school). When I say ran the household, I mean that I bought all the groceries, cooked the meals, cleaned, ran my brother around to his various activities including making sure he got to school. I also kept the cars cleaned and gassed and the oil changed in them. In addition to all of that, I had a household budget, and I paid all the household bills. Meanwhile my dad worked four jobs to put my mother through school and maintain a separate household for her during the school year. He also flew her home every weekend, and our phone bill was also outrageous. He had one job just to support the travel and phone. So when I say these things I did, I don't want it to sound like my dad was sittin' around watchin' me do it. My brother could have helpd, but he was four years old when all of this started. To top it off, I also had a job from the time I was about 9 or 10. My dad was a big believer in me making my own spending money, and after about that age, I always made my own money. I worked for him in the early years, and then I got a job at 15 working for one of his friends selling. I never got an allowance. I wouldn't have a clue about things like that, and my kids have never gotten an allowance either. They work for anything they get like that. So I fully understand how important it is to learn how to do this. BTW, my brother also worked from the time he was pretty young, and he had to keep his own messes picked up.
My son is also wonderfully disciplined about his area, and he has worked since he was about 11 and has saved a considerable amount of money from working over the years. He has more than enough to buy a nice car right now. He turns 15 on Sunday. But he's been learning to invest, and I'm letting him make the choices on his investments more and more. He also has a keen ability to sell. It's like nothing I've ever seen. Gotta brag a minute. His freshman football team had to sell "Gold Cards" to raise money, and all the kids were asked to try to sell 20 cards. The first one to sell their cards won something, and the one to sell the most cards won something. My son called me right after football practice on the day the cards were given to tell me he was walking to the local grocery store. It happened to be a pay day (15th of August I think it was), and he wanted to get down there and catch people. He not only sold all 20 cards but 10 more, and also some cards for one the seniors who had leaned on him and some other freshmen to sell his cards as well. You could have knocked the coach over with a feather when he came back in with the money the next day. They gave him a cash prize of $25 and 3 Gold Cards, which he also sold and got to keep the profit. This is not his first time to sell like this.
He also takes welding, and they are doing their year end project which is picnic tables. They are responsible for selling their tables to raise money for the welding group and a little for themselves. My son got a little hacked that they cut the profit evenly amongst all the kids, i.e., that he doesn't get a cut of specifically what he sold ('cause he already sold his table for a good price). I told him, "Hey, sell the others' tables as well if you're concerned about how they'll do." Since none of them were looking forward to selling, they were more than happy to give him the task, and he's in the thick of it. I have no doubt that group will make good money, and probably more money than they've ever made.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/27/2008 10:19:45 AM
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P31W
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Yep we are on the same page!!!!!
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/9/2008 1:01:13 PM
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trainfan
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I agree it is up to the parents to decide whether or not their children should work.
Here is a somewhat related situation and question.
What do you all think of churches taking care of everything for the pastor such as lawn care? The guy who lives across the street is a preachers kid and he has no clue how to take care of his lawn b/c the churches always took care of it for his family when he was growing up.
_____________________________
<---- The dog smiling.
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/9/2008 1:25:04 PM
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LaurainAL
Posts: 1545
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quote:
What do you all think of churches taking care of everything for the pastor such as lawn care? The guy who lives across the street is a preachers kid and he has no clue how to take care of his lawn b/c the churches always took care of it for his family when he was growing up.
I still think it's up to the parents to deal with this and not a concern for the church at all. Just my $.02.
_____________________________
My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/9/2008 9:37:20 PM
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creationtalk
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quote:
What do you all think of churches taking care of everything for the pastor such as lawn care? The guy who lives across the street is a preachers kid and he has no clue how to take care of his lawn b/c the churches always took care of it for his family when he was growing up.
I think it's great if the church takes care of some of the routine chores for the pastor. Two of my friends are pastor's wives...the whole family is on duty 24/7. It is a very demanding life. Not having to deal with some chores would be a blessing.
Of course the two families that I know, the children DO work and contribute; the families are very down to earth.
to the OP: agree with those who said it is up to the parents to decide how the children are being raised. Also agree that it is those who are talking about others that need to look to their heart attitudes.
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/10/2008 7:26:57 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4853
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From: Jesus Land
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quote:
ORIGINAL: trainfan
I agree it is up to the parents to decide whether or not their children should work.
Here is a somewhat related situation and question.
What do you all think of churches taking care of everything for the pastor such as lawn care? The guy who lives across the street is a preachers kid and he has no clue how to take care of his lawn b/c the churches always took care of it for his family when he was growing up.
Is it a parsonage? I know that our church considers the parsonage rental property, and part of the church property, and so they take care of maintainance.
_____________________________
<--Me at age fourteen
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/10/2008 9:25:08 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1923
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quote:
What do you all think of churches taking care of everything for the pastor such as lawn care?
It's great! For my church it's part of the pastor's pay package.
_________
On a side note has the OP ever come back? I simply can't think of any reason why some folks in her/his church are even thinking much less discussing this. (other than the reason I gave earlier)
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/11/2008 5:13:24 PM
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legalnicki
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quote:
Should church leaders be better off financially than the general congregation?
Tara P
Would you rather they be poorer than the general congregation? Pastors have to deal with a lot of "stuff" from people, and I think that alot of them should be paid more than what they are getting. It's stressful enough to deal with a hundred people who each think you should do something different, but it's even more stressful to do this while worrying about your financial situation. There is a lot more to the job than just preaching a 30 minute sermon on Sunday and visiting people in the hospital on Tuesday.
quote:
ORIGINAL: trainfan
What do you all think of churches taking care of everything for the pastor such as lawn care? The guy who lives across the street is a preachers kid and he has no clue how to take care of his lawn b/c the churches always took care of it for his family when he was growing up.
I'm sure this PK can figure out how to use a phone and call someone to come do it for him. Seriously, though, it really isn't that difficult to learn how to mow grass or pull weeds, so I don't think this is something that needs to be worried about. And IF he can afford to hire someone to do that for him when he's grown, I'm sure you'd be happy that the Lord has seen fit to bless him in that manner.
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/11/2008 5:24:27 PM
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legalnicki
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And to respond to the original post:
I don't think it is any of the congregation's business how a deacon, pastor, or other church leader raises their child unless is causing someone else harm or contradicts the Bible.
I think that kids should be taught how to responsibly handle finances. I'm not so much worried about teaching my kid to work because I'd rather teach them how to run their own businesses so they can support themselves. P31W's results with her son are my goals for mine. 8-5 jobs are overrated IMO, and are not as secure as most people seem to think.
That said, I *do* want my kids to earn their cars and pay for insurance because I don't want them to grow up with this sense of entitlement that is afflicting many teens who want to imitate the lifestyles of Paris Hilton and the like (I agree with the person who cited the Young Bucks author). But I'm not going to force them to work at McD's or at the mall for $7/hr. if they can start a business and make more money on their own.
< Message edited by legalnicki -- 4/11/2008 5:47:40 PM >
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/11/2008 5:37:51 PM
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pbaribeault
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I'm thinking that the question is not so much, "Is it good for teens to have jobs" but more, "Is it the role of the Church to ensure that a leader is raising his children in the best possible way?" Opinions vary on the first question, but to the second question I say wholeheartedly NO. Unless the kids are causing problems in the life of the Church, or engaged in unruly immorality, the way a family decides to raise its kids (wise OR unwise) it is not right for the Church to be critical.
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/11/2008 5:45:49 PM
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legalnicki
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But you have to temper that by understanding that despite a church leader's best attempts to raise their child in a Godly way, the child can still make poor immoral choices that I don't think should necessarily be blamed on the parents, particularly if there are mental health issues involved such as bi-polar disorder.
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/12/2008 12:40:24 PM
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TonyRush
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In response to the original post, I don't believe it's anyone's business. Each parent has their own choice on how they choose to teach a "work ethic" to their children. I see no reason why this should be any different for a parent who happens to be employed by a church.
Tony
_____________________________
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same quality of thinking that created them" -- Albert Einstein
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/15/2008 12:57:02 PM
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trainfan
Posts: 2559
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quote:
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: trainfan
What do you all think of churches taking care of everything for the pastor such as lawn care? The guy who lives across the street is a preachers kid and he has no clue how to take care of his lawn b/c the churches always took care of it for his family when he was growing up.
I'm sure this PK can figure out how to use a phone and call someone to come do it for him. Seriously, though, it really isn't that difficult to learn how to mow grass or pull weeds, so I don't think this is something that needs to be worried about. And IF he can afford to hire someone to do that for him when he's grown, I'm sure you'd be happy that the Lord has seen fit to bless him in that manner.
Um...no he couldn't figure out how to do it, the neighbors had to teach him how to do basic lawncare. The point to my post was, are churches by insisting on doing the pastors lawn care, and also basic home repairs for that matter, short changing the pastors kids in the long run as they don't learn how to do things on their own. I learned most of the skills in home repair and lawn care/landscaping I know at home. Unless the pastor kids become pastors themselves or are able to afford to hire lawn services etc. they are kind of up a creek when they are on their own.
The pastor at the church I attended while in high school, whose kids were my age, refused (much to the chagrin of the elders) to have the church take care of the lawn and parsonage. He did that so his kids learned to how to do things. I never thought much about it until the guy across the street moved in and didn't know how to do basically anything and said he never learned b/c he lived in parsonages where the church took care of everything while he was growing up.
_____________________________
<---- The dog smiling.
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/15/2008 1:40:43 PM
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LaurainAL
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trainfan: It is up to the parents to worry about that and not the church.
_____________________________
My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 4/24/2008 9:43:54 PM
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tbrobinson
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My 2 cents for free. I am a PK. The church at times took care of the lawn, and sometimes got the driveway plowed in the winter. We had nothing, but never knew it. The folks kept us fed, at times having to borrow to do it, and kept us warm.
I am also an elder in the church where we are at. I worked myself up working two to three jobs at a time to put myself through school. God blessed me with a little success from time to time.
It is NO ONES BUSINESS what I give my kids or not. If I can give them something, my business not yours. Tell me where biblically is it your business. As far as if a PK learns how to mow the lawn that is his fathers issue, or do I not read Proverbs correctly.
Finally, sadly most of you have no idea, no clue at all what it is to be a minister or leader. You dont know the hours, you dont understand the stress, and you dont know what it is to deal with people who major on the minors, and do not focus on building the kingdom. Tell me how a leader or minister deals with his children is your business, unless their is obvious sin or criminal activities?
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