|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 12:13:23 PM
|
|
|
techne
Posts: 545
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: techne
what are the responsibilities and expectations of an artist as they walk out their calling? what defines an artist? what does an artist do? I can't give all the responsibilities because I simply don't know them. But one main responsibility is to be honest about your work. Don't misrepresent it (purposefully or not) because you could easily lose your target audience in the semantics.
fair enough. are there personal responsibilities as well as public or social responsibilities? would personal responsibility be the responsibility of the artist to learn new skills as well as honing those they already possess, to receive teaching and criticism in order to explore new ideas or to work regardless of "inspiration"? could the social responsibility of the artist be about serving a community (or communities) with their skills rather than themselves?
_____________________________
In essentials, unity. In nonessentials, liberty. In all things, charity. - Augustine
The first demand any work of any art makes upon us is surrender. Look. Listen. Receive. Get yourself out of the way. — C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 12:16:50 PM
|
|
|
techne
Posts: 545
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Beck34
Our role is to share what we learn about God through our art so that we can open doors to salvation.
is it? are you saying that our art (whether visual, musical, literary) should (must?) overtly and directly address or invoke G-d? please explain what you mean here. what does this "look" like?
_____________________________
In essentials, unity. In nonessentials, liberty. In all things, charity. - Augustine
The first demand any work of any art makes upon us is surrender. Look. Listen. Receive. Get yourself out of the way. — C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 12:21:01 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 4618
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
THis view of 'calling' is far too narrow and denigrates the very reasons why some are called to be artists and some are called to be in the pulpit.
Well is one called to be a mechanic, or an author, or a janitorial worker, or a singer.
I think I will hang with "The calling" being those called to the ministry as listed in Scripture. You know Apostle, Evangelist, Pastor, etc.
I really don't think it is worth arguing over semantics, that is just my opinion.
And I still say as an answer to the question the OP offered;
quote:
I would suggest that one do with it as with the rest of their life.
(1Co 10:31) Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 12:35:25 PM
|
|
|
techne
Posts: 545
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Artistic ability is a talent, not a calling. As what to do with that talent, I would suggest that one do with it as with the rest of their life.
(1Co 10:31) Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Thanks
RC
hmm...i'm not convinced. is it the term "calling" that is an issue? we often use calling to refer to "the work of the ministry", but is that the only way it is used? are we only called by G-d (for a purpose) if it's in the role of pastor/teacher or evangelist (and for others - apostle and prophet)? is that the way you understand the term? just clarifying.
1 cor 7. 17-24
but as G-d has distributed to each one, as the Lord has called each one, so let him walk...let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called. were you called while a slave? do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it. for he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord's freedman. likewise he who is called while free is christ's slave. you were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. brethren, let each one remain with G-d in that state in which he was called.
regardless, i think that the scripture passages from exodus make it pretty clear that those artists were called by G-d, and i think that every believer - including artists - is called by G-d. we may have different functions in the body, but we are all called. a talent is an inherent ability to do something. while one may have the ability or potential i.e. "talent" to do well at something, it also does not necessarily follow that they are therefore walking in their calling.
< Message edited by techne -- 3/24/2008 1:14:39 PM >
_____________________________
In essentials, unity. In nonessentials, liberty. In all things, charity. - Augustine
The first demand any work of any art makes upon us is surrender. Look. Listen. Receive. Get yourself out of the way. — C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 12:48:46 PM
|
|
|
techne
Posts: 545
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
oops! cross-posting...
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
THis view of 'calling' is far too narrow and denigrates the very reasons why some are called to be artists and some are called to be in the pulpit.
Well is one called to be a mechanic, or an author, or a janitorial worker, or a singer.
I think I will hang with "The calling" being those called to the ministry as listed in Scripture. You know Apostle, Evangelist, Pastor, etc.
I really don't think it is worth arguing over semantics, that is just my opinion.
And I still say as an answer to the question the OP offered;
quote:
I would suggest that one do with it as with the rest of their life.
(1Co 10:31) Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Thanks
RC
fair enough (though the greek for "calling" - primarily klesis - simply indicates an invitation or a summons into the work and purposes of G-d and the kingdom). but i understand where you're coming from, and i appreciate you clarifying your position.
i'm interested in the scripture you quoted though. in your opinion, what does "do all to the glory of G-d" indicate for the work (i'll avoid "calling" here for your sake  ) of the artist?
_____________________________
In essentials, unity. In nonessentials, liberty. In all things, charity. - Augustine
The first demand any work of any art makes upon us is surrender. Look. Listen. Receive. Get yourself out of the way. — C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 1:04:58 PM
|
|
|
techne
Posts: 545
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
This compartmentalized viewpoint is one of the reasons why artists find it hard to find those who appreciate their God given gifts and why so many Christians seems completely ignorant of the importance of art in the life of the church.
Or perhaps a lot of Christians just don't do it very well.
hah! then again, in my experience, a lot of artists in general (regardless of whether they're christians or not) don't "do it very well". it seems that many artists hide behind 2 ideas to avoid maturing as an artist or receiving criticism: 1. it's simply "my expression", or 2. "this is the [insert art form here] the LORD/ G-d/ holy spirit gave me". either way it's impossible to move beyond that because then it's either intensely personal or G-d breathed . either way, the work is untouchable and sacrosanct. which i think is often rooted in fear (of rejection, probably).
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
It is an ongoing joke among many people I know that if you need a service done, DON'T hire a Christian, because you'll end up with a mess on your hands. I'm not sure if every occupation is a calling, but I do know that God expects Christians to use their calling/occupation as an opportunity for ministry and to represent Him well no matter what they do.
this is, for me, a crucial aspect of the calling of an artist. the artist is supposed to serve. there is excellence (practical physical, materila and conceptual skills), and then there's the annointing (which is G-d's responsibility, btw).
certainly, serving with exellence is a crucial component of being an artist. it's not about self-expression (at least, not in the way it is usually understood). artists will express themselves regardless of whatthey're working on, but their own need for expressing themselves will not be the primary focus. artists work within community. just like every other human being. it's just not about the artist (or at least not primarily) - it's about people. yes, yes, it's all about jesus...but he came to reconcile people to the father, and we are to continue his work and make disciples.
< Message edited by techne -- 3/24/2008 1:19:14 PM >
_____________________________
In essentials, unity. In nonessentials, liberty. In all things, charity. - Augustine
The first demand any work of any art makes upon us is surrender. Look. Listen. Receive. Get yourself out of the way. — C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 1:25:46 PM
|
|
|
iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 1322
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: upstate NY
Status: offline
|
have you read any of rory noland's books such as The Heart of the Artist. It is an outstanding book for artists who feel called to use their gift.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 1:56:26 PM
|
|
|
Liveloved
Posts: 619
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline
|
techne,
I did not perceive your responses to kisstheson in the original thread as being inappropriate. I thought you tried to dialogue. But I think there is a fresh wound---hence, it is the TIMING of this discussion that makes the content inappropriate. To me, this discussion is rubbing salt in a wound. That is my perception and I probably did not make that clear enough in my original post. I think your intentions are fine---but think this subject could have been discussed AFTER there has been some healing. I know many of those participating are oblivious to all of this. Anyway, that is my perspective. Blessings to you, LL
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 2:04:01 PM
|
|
|
techne
Posts: 545
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
have you read any of rory noland's books such as The Heart of the Artist. It is an outstanding book for artists who feel called to use their gift.
noland's book is very much a product of its cultural context i.e. a mega-church's drama department, which definitely shapes the content and applications of the book. it is really more geared towards the pastoral position and how to "manage" creative types, rather than equipping and challenging (i.e. discipling) them in their skills. i had some issues with its somewhat superficial exploration of the role and calling of the artist (as an generic term) and the assumptions (read: cultural baggage) about what artists are like. that being said, what i did like about the book was that it was pretty practical, and always kept the focus on relationship and serving. there's a fair amount of discussion of development of character, so that aspect of discipling was a positive.
i think a book like ned bustard's it was good: making art to the glory of G-d is a much better resource for creatives (don't be mislead by the title - it covers a wide range of disciplines).
i would also highly recommend art & soul: signposts for christians in the arts by hilary brand and adrienne chaplin and leland rykens' the christian imagination.
_____________________________
In essentials, unity. In nonessentials, liberty. In all things, charity. - Augustine
The first demand any work of any art makes upon us is surrender. Look. Listen. Receive. Get yourself out of the way. — C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 2:27:04 PM
|
|
|
jkdjr25
Posts: 521
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
I do think that being an artist is a calling.
Artists are an important part of society because they reflect the soul of society back at them. Some art is meant to uplift, other art is meant to challenge, but it is most definitly something a person is called to do.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 3:55:07 PM
|
|
|
TMeeks
Posts: 1395
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
THis view of 'calling' is far too narrow and denigrates the very reasons why some are called to be artists and some are called to be in the pulpit.
Well is one called to be a mechanic, or an author, or a janitorial worker, or a singer.
I think I will hang with "The calling" being those called to the ministry as listed in Scripture. You know Apostle, Evangelist, Pastor, etc.
I really don't think it is worth arguing over semantics, that is just my opinion.
And I still say as an answer to the question the OP offered;
quote:
I would suggest that one do with it as with the rest of their life.
(1Co 10:31) Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Thanks
RC
It's not just 'semantics'. In fact, reserving 'called' for preachers, etc. may actually be a fundamental distortion of the Scriptures since 99% of the time 'called' is used, it refers to our being called to be a child of God through Jesus Christ. It has, except in the case of Apostles, little to do with a special class of believers.
It strikes me that the whole concept that a professional class of 'called' clergy is a tragic holdover from the medieval Catholic church that has diminished the value of God's work in every individual to be called to service by the very nature of their unique creation.
If anything, a 'calling' is a unique and special service 'slot' into which a person fits uniquely. And, believe me, I've seen as many plumbers and electricians that fully utilize their unique gifts for ministering to the needs of others as I have ministers.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 4:10:24 PM
|
|
|
OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1190
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: techne
thought i'd throw these scripture passages into the mix. they are ultimately the base for my thoughts on these issues, though obviously the role and responsibility of the artist is a larger one than creating and decorating the tabernacle of meeting (and later the temple) - the principles are integral.
exodus 31. 1-11
then the Lord spoke to moses, saying: "see, i have called by name bezalel the son of uri, the son of hur, of the tribe of judah. and i have filled him with the spirit of G-d, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, to design artistic works, to work in gold, in silver, in bronze, in cutting jewels for setting, in carving wood, and to work in all manner of workmanship. Aand i, indeed i, have appointed with him aholiab the son of ahisamach, of the tribe of dan; and I have put wisdom in the hearts of all who are gifted artisans, that they may make all that i have commanded you: the tabernacle of meeting, the ark of the testimony and the mercy seat that is on it, and all the furniture of the tabernacle -- the table and its utensils, the pure gold lampstand with all its utensils, the altar of incense, the altar of burnt offering with all its utensils, and the laver and its base-- the garments of ministry, the holy garments for aaron the priest and the garments of his sons, to minister as priests, and the anointing oil and sweet incense for the holy place. according to all that i have commanded you they shall do."
exodus 35. 30-35
and moses said to the children of israel, "see, the Lord has called by name bezalel the son of uri, the son of hur, of the tribe of judah; and he has filled him with the spirit of G-d, in wisdom and understanding, in knowledge and all manner of workmanship, to design artistic works, to work in gold and silver and bronze, in cutting jewels for setting, in carving wood, and to work in all manner of artistic workmanship. and he has put in his heart the ability to teach, in him and aholiab the son of ahisamach, of the tribe of dan. he has filled them with skill to do all manner of work of the engraver and the designer and the tapestry maker, in blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine linen, and of the weaver--those who do every work and those who design artistic works.
there would seem to be several main points to consider:
1. the artists were called (by name) for the work, and 2. they were annointed for the work (and these artists were the first people expressly identified as annointed for any task in the bible, btw).
further, in that context (being called and annointed as artists) they were filled with 3. wisdom, 4. understanding, 5. knowledge (and these are different from each other) and 6. the desire to teach.
this was all important enough that G-d said it twice. another thing i love is that after the artists were finished moses blessed them: (exodus 39.43) then moses looked over all the work, and indeed they had done it; as the Lord had commanded, just so they had done it. and moses blessed them.
there's a lot we can learn from these passages if we take the time to unpack them, and consider the implications (theologically and practically).
i don't think these scriptures at all apply to art and christian artists in general. this was about the art that was for God's specific project/purpose.
art can be a creative outlet, a means to earn a living or a ministry. sometimes all at once. not always.
a christian artist has the same responsibility as any other christian, to love God with all....and to love thy neighbor...
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 4:17:33 PM
|
|
|
OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1190
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: techne
hah! then again, in my experience, a lot of artists in general (regardless of whether they're christians or not) don't "do it very well". it seems that many artists hide behind 2 ideas to avoid maturing as an artist or receiving criticism: 1. it's simply "my expression", or 2. "this is the [insert art form here] the LORD/ G-d/ holy spirit gave me". either way it's impossible to move beyond that because then it's either intensely personal or G-d breathed . either way, the work is untouchable and sacrosanct. which i think is often rooted in fear (of rejection, probably).
there's a commitee that decides what is "good" art or not? there are biblical guidelines for what "good" art is?
i have opinions about art too. but what makes my opinion the right one? when do i get to say, you shouldn't create that it's ugly or substandard or.....? really do we need to police art?
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 4:43:36 PM
|
|
|
techne
Posts: 545
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
i don't think these scriptures at all apply to art and christian artists in general. this was about the art that was for God's specific project/purpose.
really? do you think that G-d used non-artists? you don't think that perhaps bezalel and aholiab might have developed those skills elsewhere (yes, that's right, i'm saying they received training from the egyptians and they worked on egyptian art and architecture) and that G-d had prepared them to do the work? do you think that this was the only time they used those skills? that after they made the tabernacle, bezalel and aholiab and the rest of the artists and artisans simply went back to looking after the sheep and the goats?
these passages are indeed about the artists, and how G-d equipped them (by the holy spirit - who now indwells us - so there must be some parallels, don't you think?). there are huge chunks of scripture that refer to the project itself, and describe it in exhaustive detail, but these passages directly describe G-d's equipping of artists.
i guess i believe that bezalel and aholiab are the first in a long lineage of artists, and that if the old testament is a shadow (a la hebrews) and therefore an indication of new testament reality, and that there just might be some priciples we can discern in those scriptures. and it's not simply my idea - there are many scholars and theologians who have applied these passages in order to discover a biblical approach and place for art and the artist.
bezalel and aholiab are specifically noted and identified as artists, so they must have been functioning as such. and i doubt that G-d would have left it at that, and obviously he didn't (hence the injuction to teach). years later, artist worked on the temple. there are also numerous references to artists being removed from the nation of israel when they were conquered. artists were always part of the nation of israel, so they must have done something...
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
art can be a creative outlet, a means to earn a living or a ministry. sometimes all at once. not always.
and if it is "earning a living" or "a ministry", could it not also be considered a calling? regardless - even if being an artist is an occupation/ ministry - how does one do that? what does that look like?
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
a christian artist has the same responsibility as any other christian, to love God with all....and to love thy neighbor...
of course.
_____________________________
In essentials, unity. In nonessentials, liberty. In all things, charity. - Augustine
The first demand any work of any art makes upon us is surrender. Look. Listen. Receive. Get yourself out of the way. — C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 4:51:58 PM
|
|
|
OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1190
Status: offline
|
i didn't say that the scriptures do not speak of art or artists. i am saying that it speaks of appointed art. not to all art and artists.
no, i don't think that every means of earning a living is a calling. we are called to work for our keep. that is the calling. what we do specifically for ministry is often seperate from our work to eat. while our lives should be a ministry, there is also a calling out to specific life of ministry, pastors teachers etc.
i think you're blurring the ministry and God honoring lifestyle we must all live, with the type of ministry and expression of worship as a calling.
we are all called to honor God with the work of our hands. we are not all called to devote ourselves to a ministry of appointment.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 5:35:55 PM
|
|
|
techne
Posts: 545
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
quote:
ORIGINAL: techne
hah! then again, in my experience, a lot of artists in general (regardless of whether they're christians or not) don't "do it very well". it seems that many artists hide behind 2 ideas to avoid maturing as an artist or receiving criticism: 1. it's simply "my expression", or 2. "this is the [insert art form here] the LORD/ G-d/ holy spirit gave me". either way it's impossible to move beyond that because then it's either intensely personal or G-d breathed . either way, the work is untouchable and sacrosanct. which i think is often rooted in fear (of rejection, probably).
there's a commitee that decides what is "good" art or not? there are biblical guidelines for what "good" art is?
yes -- didn't you get invited to be the arbiter of taste? the fact is that there are standards for what defines 'good' or 'bad' art. those standards may not be quantifiable (if it does x, it's good, if it doesn't it's bad), but they are discernible. be honest -- are you not able to recognize or determine on some level what is good art or bad art? come on now. and i'm not talking about personal taste - i'm talking about art that marries materials, subject matter and execution to maximum effect i.e. communicating something. and i'm not talking about making excuses for work because someone's heart was in the right place.
we can look at the elements of art (colour, composition, balance, style, material/ media, etc) and determine how well those things are functioning. we can look at the subject matter (whether we agree with it or not) and then see if the art elements are conveying that subject appropriately. this is why i think that the more art you look at and the more you think about art, the more you will be able to make those judgements. in fact, isn't that what we do in any field?
as for biblical guidelines - philippians 4.8 is often bandied about: finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things. those are some pretty good guidelines for content and execution.
however, those biblical guidelines do not cover the technical/ mechanical/ material aspects. looking at those aspects involves thought, analysis and consideration. again, if we look at those passages you don't think apply, they address aspects of the artistic process - knowing techniques and materials and how to best use them to accomplish one's purpose for the work at hand. making art is a holistic activity, involving emotions and intelligence. we need to exercise those aspects when making art and when engaging with it.
anyway, like anything else, in order to protect both maker and audience, i think that more mature artists should mentor younger artists so that they don't put their work "out there" in public until they and the work are ready. until quite recently (the last 200 years or so) that was the case. one apprenticed, practised, copied, assisted before one was released to do their own thing. being an artist was a trade like any other. and really, still is. my point was that artists in all kinds of mediums put their work out before they and the work are "ready", and then, when they can't handle the responses they get, they hide behind the above. so it probably isn't "good" art because it isn't mature or well-realized art.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
i have opinions about art too. but what makes my opinion the right one? when do i get to say, you shouldn't create that it's ugly or substandard or.....? really do we need to police art?
you are welcome to have opinions. and you are welcome to share them. but aren't some opinions more considered (i won't say valid) than others? let's say we're looking at the same painting. we both will have our opinions, but (i hope) we would discuss those opinions. if someone just says "i like it" and, when questioned about why simply says, "because i do" - what use is that? it doesn't reflect any real engagement on the part of the viewer, and i think it dishonours the artist by not engaging with the work. then again, i would hope that the artist also gave the creation and process a lot of thought and investment becasue that honours the viewer. and G-d.
but if someone is able to articulate their response by looking at the work, and discussing what aspects affect them and how, what it makes them think of and why, and what historical ideas and artistic vocabularies it engages - wouldn't that be a more considered (and richer) opinion? would that be an opinion you would pay attention to and that you might want to consider? you're welcome to your own opinion. but if it's not well-considered, why should i give it much credence? and why do we let people get away with this when it comes to the arts, but not medicine or law enforcement?
people (and artists) are free to make any kind of art they want. if they want to make ugly or sub-standard art (and those are not the same thing, btw), they are free to do so. but if they consider themselves artists, they have a responsibility to grow as artists in their skills, the complexity and depth of their subject matter and, most importantly, how they put those aspects together to communicate something to their audience. it's as much about "policing" art as it is about "policing" anything else. i can appreciate a straightforward 'simple' work, but i prefer [conceptual] complexity. there is a beauty in simplicity - it can be quite elegant - but that is not the same as the inability to execute an idea.
anyway, thanks for engaging...
_____________________________
In essentials, unity. In nonessentials, liberty. In all things, charity. - Augustine
The first demand any work of any art makes upon us is surrender. Look. Listen. Receive. Get yourself out of the way. — C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 5:51:56 PM
|
|
|
techne
Posts: 545
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
i didn't say that the scriptures do not speak of art or artists. i am saying that it speaks of appointed art. not to all art and artists.
to clarify - do you think the passages in exodus only apply to that specific purpose/ project (the tabernacle of meeting)? are there scriptures that you think do apply specifically to artists?
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
no, i don't think that every means of earning a living is a calling. we are called to work for our keep. that is the calling. what we do specifically for ministry is often seperate from our work to eat. while our lives should be a ministry, there is also a calling out to specific life of ministry, pastors teachers etc.
correct me if i'm wrong, but this seems to be a similar position to rc's. but sometimes how we "earn our living" is the same thing as our calling. perhaps one could be "called" as a pastor/ teacher but "minister" to creatives? could one "called" as a teacher pursue that "calling" in a high school or at university rather than in "professional" clergic ministry? just trying to clarify the difference.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
i think you're blurring the ministry and God honoring lifestyle we must all live, with the type of ministry and expression of worship as a calling.
perhaps. but this statement intrigues me -- could you clarify? on the one hand, there's the call to righteousness, holiness, obedience, worship, loving G-d and our neighbours, etc. on the other hand, there's the call to a specific vocation or ministry (arena of service?). i guess i embrace the notion of calling as being purposeful - that G-d has created each of us for some specific purpose, and that for some of us, being an artist is that calling. please discuss this some more...as a former worship leader and pastor of the arts i wonder about that. "worship leader" isn't found in the bible, yet it certainly does seem to be a "calling". if it is, then why not being an artist?
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
we are all called to honor God with the work of our hands. we are not all called to devote ourselves to a ministry of appointment.
again, my understanding is that you understand "calling" as specifically referring to pastor/ teacher, evangelist, apostle and prophet. and those positions are functional as "full-time" (and paid by a congregation) within the context of a church's weekly activities.
of course, i agree that whatever we do, we should do it to glorify G-d.
_____________________________
In essentials, unity. In nonessentials, liberty. In all things, charity. - Augustine
The first demand any work of any art makes upon us is surrender. Look. Listen. Receive. Get yourself out of the way. — C.S. Lewis
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 5:52:23 PM
|
|
|
OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1190
Status: offline
|
you are very much describing an educated, university perspective on art and art quality, but you are overlooking other artistic/creative expression. one may write a poem, take a photograph, paint a picture for his own pleasure or for the pleasure of like minds, yet someone fron another culture segment would think it mundane or worse.
think for a moment about folk art. very primitive yet it has it's own purpose and value. it's vey unsophisticated and often untrained.
creative expression should not be limited to those that can or have been trained, or approved of by the trained or educated. society can embrace or ignore art as it will, but the artistic expression of the common person should not be discouraged just because it's unlikely to warrant laud or monetary value.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 6:13:23 PM
|
|
|
OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1190
Status: offline
|
re post 43:
i believe that we are all called...to work for a living, love God and neighbor (to simplify) and to minster, as in encourage and build one another up, feed the poor etc. universal callings. we are all created for the purpose of doing those things and affecting those around us by doing those things.
some are given specific callings and appointments that minstry.
a chrsitian musician could for example only use his music for worship services, it could be from a calling to full time ministry, a led by God season, or a simple sharing of talent for the edification and sharing in worship with the saints.
another christian musician might play violin in a chamber orchestra for a living. while affecting those around him as he lives out his career ans any christian would, it's not a call to ministry.
i thinkg God often leads His people to do specific things be it art, music, teaching, writing, plumbing...
i don't think He assigns plumbing to one guy and if the guy ends up earing a living digging ditches, he's missed his calling. (unless he had the distinct impression he was being led by God to plumb, and he avoided it)
someone can write, paint etc as a God honoring person as a creative outlet or as a living because he/she enjoys it, maybe even earns a living at it, yet never particularly felt God instructed them to do it.
(my head's a little headache fuzzy right now, i'm not entirely sure i'm still making sense.  )
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 6:19:45 PM
|
|
|
OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1190
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: techne
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
i didn't say that the scriptures do not speak of art or artists. i am saying that it speaks of appointed art. not to all art and artists.
to clarify - do you think the passages in exodus only apply to that specific purpose/ project (the tabernacle of meeting)? are there scriptures that you think do apply specifically to artists?
that and that type of artistry project. commisioned by God for an appointed time and purpose.
it does not imply that all christians do art only when instructed by God to do so.
christians are free to do art without God saying "this is your calling, do this special project fo me."
and yes, i do think God still gives His people special assignmenst and callings, even artistic ones.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: the calling of an artist... - 3/24/2008 6:26:28 PM
|
|
|
techne
Posts: 545
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
you are very much describing an educated, university perspective on art and art quality, but you are overlooking other artistic/creative expression. one may write a poem, take a photograph, paint a picture for his own pleasure or for the pleasure of like minds, yet someone fron another culture segment would think it mundane or worse.
please understand, when i discuss "art" or "work" i mean any medium. every medium still has its own elements and various genres (or vocabularies). so let's say i am university educated and work in contemporary media and installation - that does not mean that i am unable to appreciate a beautiful landscape painting or a wildlife portrait. let's say i am a contemporary language poet who experiments with concrete poetry -- that does not mean i can't appreciate a sonnet or villanelle or haiku. in fact, i should be able to. and i do. but again, to use your examples, some photographs (as photographs) are better than others, some poems (as poems) are better than others, some paintings (as paintings) are better than others.
bu | | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
