|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/5/2008 9:18:10 PM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5055
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
gd, the Greeks used the word in the sense of identification. You have to ignore the times "baptizo" is used when water isn't in the picture, such as the Exodus generation, who was "baptized into Moses" when they crossed the Red Sea. Although there was water all around, they went through dry shod. iow, Paul was using the word as an identification. As the Jews passed through the Red Sea on dry land, they were identified with Moses.
Further, Jesus' baptism of fire was the cross. No water. So, you are just being stubborn to dismiss the fact that baptism is used of identifications throughout Scripture. I don't know if the Greeks used 'baptizo" when they meant "identify" or not, but I'll take your word for it. I have no problem with "baptizo" being used that way regarding being "baptized into Moses." I recognize that there are instances when "baptizo" is used figuratively when water is not involved. I'm not ignoring those verses. As I said earlier, unless the verse or the context specifically states otherwise, I will always assume baptism means "with water." In the two examples you cited it is specifically stated what is meant by the figurative use of baptism and I agree that it does not include water.
Think of it this way: unless water is specifically noted, you should not think of water baptism, which is what you seem to be doing.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/5/2008 9:49:59 PM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 968
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Think of it this way: unless water is specifically noted, you should not think of water baptism, which is what you seem to be doing. That wouldn't agree with the Greek scholars that I've referred to thought. For example, Albrecht Oepke says that water is inherent in the word "baptizo." When "baptizo" is used literally it means immersion in water. So I think I'll stick with what I've stated before. Unless it's specifically stated otherwise, I'll assume "with water."
_____________________________
greatdivide46
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God: and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -- 1 Peter 4:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/5/2008 10:15:37 PM
|
|
|
PeterD
Posts: 435
Joined: 4/27/2007
Status: offline
|
Hello Brothers
Luke 3:16
John the Baptist Prepares the Way
16 John answered them all, saying, "I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
1 John 5:6-8
Testimony Concerning the Son of God
6This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.
FreeGrace and Greatdivide46, what do you both say about these passages relating to water and water's involvement in the Testimony Concerning the Son of God.
PeterD
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/5/2008 11:45:11 PM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 968
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: online
|
The event of the Spirit's coming is couched in the imagery of "water," of a great outpouring of life-giving water. That imagery is contined in the Gospels, as both John the Baptist and Jesus continued to point forward to a new age marked by a new kind of work of the Holy Spirit. In a figure suggestred by his work of baptizing in the waters of the Jordan River, John declared that the Messiah himself would offer a baptism in the Spirit (Luke 3:16).
The regenerating work of the Spirit during water baptism is what the Bible calls being baptized in the Holy Spirit, something it was promised that Jesus would do (Luke 3:16).
Don't know about 1 John 5:6-8, but it appears to me that the "water" in these verses is a reference to Jesus' baptism by John and "blood" is a reference to His crucifixion. Of course the Spirit was present and Jesus baptism and I imagine He was there for at least part of the crucifixion, although I don't know if it's specifcally stated that He was there.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God: and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -- 1 Peter 4:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 3:59:15 AM
|
|
|
kelman
Posts: 3139
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
The meaning really isn't identical because we know from other passages that Cornelius became saved by the preaching of Peter's words at this point. In Acts 11:14-18, it says the angel told Cornelius that Peter would tell him words by which he would be saved(vs 14). Peter says that the Holy Spirit fell on them as on us at the beginning(vs 15). Then Peter diffentiated between water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit(vs 16). The Jews with Peter said this proved God had granted "repentance" to the Gentiles(vs 18). And, repentance and faith are the result or evidence of salvation. Therefore, Cornelius, et al, were saved as Peter preached to them and the Holy Spirit fell upon them. Well, I've gotta tell ya, this is the best post I've seen on this subject, even though I don't agree with some of it. For example, I don't agree that Cornelius was saved by the words themselves, but certainly the words had to be spoken in order for him to be saved. Oh, I agree no one is saved by the words alone. I just worded it poorly. But, as you say, they are a necessary ingredient without which salvation cannot happen.
quote:
And I'm not entirely convinced that Peter is differentiating between water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I could be that, by quoting Jesus here, he recognizes that the difference between John's baptism and Christian baptism is the presence of the Holy Spirit. Yes, I thought the same - at first. But, Peter is asking how can I not baptize in water when Christ has already baptized them in the Holy Spirit. So, Peter is making a distinction between the two, though, obviously they are closely related to one another. The relationship being that one is the shadow of the substance.
quote:
In other words, when John baptized with water all you got was wet, but when you are baptized with water after Jesus' ascension, you received the Holy Spirit.
We cannot say that is true from what Acts 11 has just told us. With the utmost clarity it is said they had first received the Holy Spirit; and, for this reason Peter water baptized them.
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 6:36:10 AM
|
|
|
GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Think of it this way: unless water is specifically noted, you should not think of water baptism, which is what you seem to be doing.
I disagree entirely. Unless another term besides water is specifically mentioned with the term baptism, water should be assumed. That would be normative.
Obviously there are some metaphorical usages but those can be determined from context.
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 7:35:39 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 968
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: online
|
I don't necessarily see a connection between the baptism of the Spirit and miraculous gifts, especially the gift of tongues. If that were true then every Christian should be able to speak in tongues or do something comparable since all Christians have been baptized in the Spirit. To me, baptism in or of the Spirit is another name for regeneration, and there is no necessary connection between it and miraculous spiritual gifts.
Since the presence of the Holy Spirit in all believers was an entirely new thing, I believe that the tongues accompanied the gift of the Spirit on Pentecost as a preliminary demonstration that the indwelling Spirit was indeed being given on this occasion. Same thing at Cornelius' house. The very nature of these events shows that the use of tongues on those occasions was not a pattern for all times in the church. They were signs related to the uniqueness of these events. On Pentecost the tongues were evidence that the Spirit was on that day poured out from heaven for salvation purpose for the very first time, as promised by God. With Cornelius the tongues were evidence that the indwelling Spirit was intended for Gentiles as well as for Jews.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God: and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -- 1 Peter 4:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 3:36:51 PM
|
|
|
abu_khomar
Posts: 97
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
I don't necessarily see a connection between the baptism of the Spirit and miraculous gifts, especially the gift of tongues. If that were true then every Christian should be able to speak in tongues or do something comparable since all Christians have been baptized in the Spirit. To me, baptism in or of the Spirit is another name for regeneration, and there is no necessary connection between it and miraculous spiritual gifts.
Since the presence of the Holy Spirit in all believers was an entirely new thing, I believe that the tongues accompanied the gift of the Spirit on Pentecost as a preliminary demonstration that the indwelling Spirit was indeed being given on this occasion. Same thing at Cornelius' house. The very nature of these events shows that the use of tongues on those occasions was not a pattern for all times in the church. They were signs related to the uniqueness of these events. On Pentecost the tongues were evidence that the Spirit was on that day poured out from heaven for salvation purpose for the very first time, as promised by God. With Cornelius the tongues were evidence that the indwelling Spirit was intended for Gentiles as well as for Jews.
what was unique about acts 19?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 4:57:23 PM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 968
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
what was unique about acts 19?[ I'm assuming that you are referring to verses 1-7 of Acts 19, rather than the entire chapter. The apostle Paul met a dozen disciples who had been baptized with John's baptism, but had not been baptized with New Covenant baptism in order to receive the gift of the Spirit. After teaching them Paul baptized them in the name of the Lord Jesus, and we may assume that they then received the gift of the indwelling Spirit as promised (Acts 2:38-29; 5:32). But after he baptized them, he laid his hands on them. As a result "the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying" (verse 6).
This suggests that there was a firm connection between the laying on of an apostle's hands and the reception of miraculous apiritutal gifts. Pentecost and Cornelius stand out as exceptions, and as I noted before they were unique in this respect.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God: and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -- 1 Peter 4:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 5:59:16 PM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5055
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Think of it this way: unless water is specifically noted, you should not think of water baptism, which is what you seem to be doing. That wouldn't agree with the Greek scholars that I've referred to thought. For example, Albrecht Oepke says that water is inherent in the word "baptizo." When "baptizo" is used literally it means immersion in water. So I think I'll stick with what I've stated before. Unless it's specifically stated otherwise, I'll assume "with water."
The point is that "immersion in water" has the common understanding of an identification, since the word was used commonly with dying a fabric. The color of the dye identified the fabric.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 9:21:36 PM
|
|
|
PeterD
Posts: 435
Joined: 4/27/2007
Status: offline
|
Luke 23:40-43
The Crucifixion
40But the other rebuked him, saying, "Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 42And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 43And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
Jesus, said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
Is this man baptized?
Is this man saved?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 9:31:20 PM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 968
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: online
|
quote:
The point is that "immersion in water" has the common understanding of an identification, since the word was used commonly with dying a fabric. The color of the dye identified the fabric. Maybe so. Certainly dying a fabric in order to identify it necessitates that it be immersed. Perhaps it's also significant that after the fabric is immersed it comes out a new color, just like we become a new creature in our baptism. So in our baptism not only are we identified with the body of Christ but we actually become members of that body.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God: and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -- 1 Peter 4:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 9:33:48 PM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 968
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: PeterD
Luke 23:40-43
The Crucifixion
But the other rebuked him, saying, "Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
Jesus, said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
Is this man baptized?
Is this man saved?
No, this man was not baptized. It wasn't a requirement prior to Jesus' ascension to heaven.
Yes, this man is saved.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God: and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -- 1 Peter 4:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 9:34:42 PM
|
|
|
Amped88
Posts: 36
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
|
I had almost the same exact experience as jfaye on post # 26 of this thread. I have often thought....Am I truly saved tho i have did the sinners prayer and was actually baptized 2 times. One of them was in the river of Jordan because while i was in the Navy overseas we all thought it would be cool to make trip out there.
Recently i have dedicated a lot of my time and efforts to God and have become born again and silently asked him to take over my life and to come through me and acknowledged my sin etc.
I need a straight answer. Do I need to be baptized yet again?? I dont want to walk to the gates of heaven and be denied because I had did my best to live for Christ but missed a step in the checkoff process. (only way i know how to put it)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 9:42:52 PM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5055
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
The point is that "immersion in water" has the common understanding of an identification, since the word was used commonly with dying a fabric. The color of the dye identified the fabric. Maybe so. Certainly dying a fabric in order to identify it necessitates that it be immersed. Perhaps it's also significant that after the fabric is immersed it comes out a new color, just like we become a new creature in our baptism. So in our baptism not only are we identified with the body of Christ but we actually become members of that body.
And that baptism would be the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which has already been differentiated from John's baptism with water, so the baptism (identification) of the Holy Spirit involves no water.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 10:00:10 PM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 968
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Amped88
I need a straight answer. Do I need to be baptized yet again?? I dont want to walk to the gates of heaven and be denied because I had did my best to live for Christ but missed a step in the checkoff process. (only way i know how to put it) I would say, no, you don't have to be baptized again.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God: and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -- 1 Peter 4:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/6/2008 10:06:09 PM
|
|
|
PeterD
Posts: 435
Joined: 4/27/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: PeterD
Luke 23:40-43
The Crucifixion
But the other rebuked him, saying, "Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
Jesus, said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
Is this man baptized?
Is this man saved?
No, this man was not baptized. It wasn't a requirement prior to Jesus' ascension to heaven.
Yes, this man is saved.
Good evening greatdivide46
John 4:1-2
1Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2(although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples),
Did the disciples baptize the same way John was baptizing only because of what Jesus said about the way he was baptized? And were Jesus disciples baptized in water?
Mark 10:38-39
38Jesus said to them, "You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?" 39And they said to him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you will drink, and with the baptism with which I am baptized, you will be baptized,
PeterD
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/7/2008 3:05:48 AM
|
|
|
kelman
Posts: 3139
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
I don't necessarily see a connection between the baptism of the Spirit and miraculous gifts, especially the gift of tongues. If that were true then every Christian should be able to speak in tongues or do something comparable since all Christians have been baptized in the Spirit. To me, baptism in or of the Spirit is another name for regeneration, and there is no necessary connection between it and miraculous spiritual gifts.
Since the presence of the Holy Spirit in all believers was an entirely new thing, I believe that the tongues accompanied the gift of the Spirit on Pentecost as a preliminary demonstration that the indwelling Spirit was indeed being given on this occasion. Same thing at Cornelius' house. The very nature of these events shows that the use of tongues on those occasions was not a pattern for all times in the church. They were signs related to the uniqueness of these events. On Pentecost the tongues were evidence that the Spirit was on that day poured out from heaven for salvation purpose for the very first time, as promised by God. With Cornelius the tongues were evidence that the indwelling Spirit was intended for Gentiles as well as for Jews.
It wasn't entirely new that the Holy Spirit indwelled believers. We have scriptural proof of this. And, since the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit(being "born again") is necessary for salvation - all believers, whether OT or NT, were indwelled or "born again".
The difference in what was about to occur beginning at Pentecost was the extent of salvation, never a change in the method of salvation.
There were four examples of "tongues" accompanying salvation. It was the evidence and fulfillment of Christ's declaration to the Apostles: "and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." It was in those four places only that "tongues" accompanied salvation.
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/7/2008 7:14:32 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 968
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: PetereD
Did the disciples baptize the same way John was baptizing only because of what Jesus said about the way he was baptized? Not sure I understand the question, but if I do the answer is yes.
quote:
And were Jesus disciples baptized in water? I don't think the Scripture really says, but we would assume so, since Jesus told them to baptize others in order to make more disciples.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God: and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -- 1 Peter 4:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/7/2008 7:30:43 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 968
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
It wasn't entirely new that the Holy Spirit indwelled believers. We have scriptural proof of this. And, since the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit(being "born again") is necessary for salvation - all believers, whether OT or NT, were indwelled or "born again".
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you (John 14:16-17). Apparently Jesus' disciples were not yet saved since the Holy Spirit was not yet in them, but was simply abiding with them. Also, if the Holy Spirit indwelled Old Testament believers it seems strange the Jesus felt it necessary to inform His disciples that the Holy Spirit was still to come.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God: and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -- 1 Peter 4:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/7/2008 5:34:31 PM
|
|
|
JesKlu
Posts: 379
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
It wasn't entirely new that the Holy Spirit indwelled believers. We have scriptural proof of this. And, since the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit(being "born again") is necessary for salvation - all believers, whether OT or NT, were indwelled or "born again".
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you (John 14:16-17). Apparently Jesus' disciples were not yet saved since the Holy Spirit was not yet in them, but was simply abiding with them. Also, if the Holy Spirit indwelled Old Testament believers it seems strange the Jesus felt it necessary to inform His disciples that the Holy Spirit was still to come.
I agree entirely with that. In the OT prophets, the Holy Spirit did not "indwell" them, but simply "came upon" them, like a mantle. It was not until Pentecost that the Holy Spirit "indwelled" believers. Therefore, if someone is not baptized, the Holy Spirit can "come upon" them, but will not "indwell them" until after they are baptized. There is scriptural proof for this.
Acts 2:38-39
"Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."
From what the Apostle Peter said, you do not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit until after baptism.
Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jessica
_____________________________
2And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them 3and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/8/2008 1:48:21 PM
|
|
|
FreeGrace
Posts: 5055
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Think of it this way: unless water is specifically noted, you should not think of water baptism, which is what you seem to be doing.
I disagree entirely. Unless another term besides water is specifically mentioned with the term baptism, water should be assumed. That would be normative.
The reason for my statement is because in John 1:26, 31 and 33, John the baptizer specifically says he "baptized with water. If the word "baptize" defaults to meaning immersion with water, why would he add the phrase "with water". It is my understanding that the word was used to refer to an "identification", not merely immersion in water.
Also, he differentiated his baptism with water with Jesus' baptism with the Holy Spirit. If we understand "baptize" as merely an immersion of some kind, do you think John means that Jesus will immerse us into the Holy Spirit? I don't think so. Since there are a number of both "wet" and "dry" baptisms found in Scripture, and since all of them indicate an identification of some kind, we should understand the word "baptize" to mean identification, not wet immersion.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Are you saved but not baptized? - 5/8/2008 2:30:10 PM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 968
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
The reason for my statement is because in John 1:26, 31 and 33, John the baptizer specifically says he "baptized with water. If the word "baptize" defaults to meaning immersion with water, why would he add the phrase "with water". It is my understanding that the word was used to refer to an "identification", not merely immersion in water. He would add the phrase "with water" to differentiate what he was doing from what Jesus would do "with the Holy Spirit."
quote:
Also, he differentiated his baptism with water with Jesus' baptism with the Holy Spirit. If we understand "baptize" as merely an immersion of some kind, do you think John means that Jesus will immerse us into the Holy Spirit? I don't think so. Since there are a number of both "wet" and "dry" baptisms found in Scripture, and since all of them indicate an identification of some kind, we should understand the word "baptize" to mean identification, not wet immersion. As a matter of fact, I do believe that John means the Jesus will immerse us into the Holy Spirit and that we will therefore be immersed in the Holy Spirit. Perhaps that's what's the matter with some Christians today. They are not really immersed in the Holy Spirit.
Maybe there are some "dry" baptisms found in Scripture, but that doesn't change the meaning of the word from "immerse in water" to "identification."
_____________________________
greatdivide46
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God: and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -- 1 Peter 4:17
|
|
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
