RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (Full Version)

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FolkSingerBlues -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/6/2008 6:46:38 PM)

What I personally believe to take place in baptism may be of debate. I don't have to see eye to eye with you or anyone else have to see eye to eye with me. There is one issue though that comes to the surface. The Bible does not refer to baptism as "an outward sign of an inward change". That we should be able to agree on. You may believe that's what it is, but we don't have to agree on it.

There is one thing that is yet to be answered though. Was baptism recorded in Scripture as the early church's standardized practice of the acceptance of the Gospel?

That is something that we should Scripturally be able to come to terms with. There IS a bonified answer for that question.



greatdivide46 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/6/2008 7:39:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FolkSingerBlues

Was baptism recorded in Scripture as the early church's standardized practice of the acceptance of the Gospel?


Absolutely. After the church began in Acts chapter 2, there is no such thing as an unbaptized Christian. New Testament believers would see that term as an oxymoron.



celebratejesus911 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/6/2008 9:11:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dona Nobis Pacem

quote:

Are you saved but not baptized?


In most cases this situation is not likely.

Baptism is the normative vehicle by which we are regenerated through water and the Spirit and one moves from a state of sin to a state of grace.


Peace,
DNP


I would have to disagree here. It is my understanding that we are saved what we ask Him. The Holy Spirit comes to indwell us at that moment. I do believe in being refilled although I haven't studied a lot on this yet, nor have I sought out wise counsel. I do believe the Holy Spirit is teaching me this, but wise counsel and reconciling that the the Bible is my first step. The water baptism is an outward "confession" to other believers that we have indeed, excepted Christ as our Lord and Saviour.

In His Grip, denise:)



greatdivide46 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/7/2008 8:48:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

It is my understanding that we are saved what we ask Him. The Holy Spirit comes to indwell us at that moment. I do believe in being refilled although I haven't studied a lot on this yet, nor have I sought out wise counsel. I do believe the Holy Spirit is teaching me this, but wise counsel and reconciling that the the Bible is my first step. The water baptism is an outward "confession" to other believers that we have indeed, excepted Christ as our Lord and Saviour.


Denise, I've appreciated your comments since you joined us on July 4th.

I wonder how you came to your "understanding that we are saved [when] we ask Him." Did you read that somewhere in the Bible or did you trust someone who told you that's how we get saved? Just remember, the Holy Spirit will not teach you anything that is contrary to Scripture.

I hope you enjoy yourself among the many folders and threads that are here on Crosswalk and that you will be around for a long time.



celebratejesus911 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/7/2008 9:58:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: greatdivide46

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

It is my understanding that we are saved what we ask Him. The Holy Spirit comes to indwell us at that moment. I do believe in being refilled although I haven't studied a lot on this yet, nor have I sought out wise counsel. I do believe the Holy Spirit is teaching me this, but wise counsel and reconciling that the the Bible is my first step. The water baptism is an outward "confession" to other believers that we have indeed, excepted Christ as our Lord and Saviour.


Denise, I've appreciated your comments since you joined us on July 4th.

I wonder how you came to your "understanding that we are saved [when] we ask Him." Did you read that somewhere in the Bible or did you trust someone who told you that's how we get saved? Just remember, the Holy Spirit will not teach you anything that is contrary to Scripture.

I hope you enjoy yourself among the many folders and threads that are here on Crosswalk and that you will be around for a long time.


LOL, I had a note all written about as long as yours and lost the page, oh well, Gods will not mine. I'll start over here:) My walk with Christ began in 93 and I learned mostly from pastors(non-denom)my X husband and other friends in the biblestudies. The I realized that it was personal and I needed to read for myself. I balked at that because I was already learning and I wasn't "hungry" enough for the Word. Lets just say due to some adversities:) I got hungry:) I read a lot now and always ask the Holy Spirit to help me understand what He wants me to see. I do have some verses. But first I will give a better "as to what I believe on salvation".

Yes, I believe that when I asked Jesus if He was real would He please help and save me from myself, as well as the adversities around me. I was broken to say the least. Although in my walk with Christ, I feel I have been more broken in other ways. It's all good though because it brings me closer to Him and His Way for me. As you probably know, people of the "world" wonder how you can smile and have joy when awful things happen to you. Anyway, some verse:

Romans 10:9, 13 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. . . . For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

After working on this I realize it's probably the word ask that bothered you or maybe the info I "left" out. I believe any follower of Christ, knows in their heart that yes, when we ask of Him, He delivers us. There are many things involved with salvation, first of all, it only comes by the Grace of God. There is repentence for remission of sins. I could go on but animals to get out there and feed:)

I hope this helps. And anything you would like to point out that I didn't hit on is welcome. I can't begin to write down all that has happened since the day "I came to believe":)

God bless, denise



greatdivide46 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/7/2008 10:23:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

Romans 10:9, 13 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. . . . For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
These verses are true, but do you think that's all that's involved in salvation? I kinda think that we can't just take one or two verses in isolation and build a doctrine on them, unless they are the only one or two verses the address a topic. In the case of salvation this isn't so. There are a plethora and a myriad of verses bearing on salvation.

quote:

After working on this I realize it's probably the word ask that bothered you or maybe the info I "left" out. I believe any follower of Christ, knows in their heart that yes, when we ask of Him, He delivers us. There are many things involved with salvation, first of all, it only comes by the Grace of God. There is repentence for remission of sins. I could go on but animals to get out there and feed:)
See, I'm not entirely certain that all that's required of us is that we ask Him and He delivers us. No doubt, He delivers us, if we so desire, but I think more than simply asking is involved. But ultimately no matter what we think we need to do its still a fact that we are saved by grace.

quote:

I can't begin to write down all that has happened since the day "I came to believe"[:)]

Nor could I [:)]

Thanks for your response. [:)]



loveineffable -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/7/2008 11:33:08 AM)

Who are anyone that judgest another mans' servant, One believes he may eat all things and gives God thanks, another eats only vegetables, and give God thanks.
To your own master you stand or fall. I think God is able to make each stand, and does not need anyone to take his place in leadership, after they have believed.
God will lead his sheep to water baptism, or will not. For God is sovereign. He knows what he is doing. WE just think we do.
Any way receive one who is weak in faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.
One thing remains current, we either believe or we do not in him. then we, if believe start growing in his grace. Unfortunately we all have so many views it gets hard to discen the truth.
I suggest to go back to the word and start reading it with only one purpose in mind, that is to know the Savior. Yet in order to do this one would need to read from the beginning, seeking to know the savior (Jesus Christ)
Ex: in Air conditioning, you are troubleshootiing a problem in the outdoor unit. You pull the cover and see all these wires, going every which way. Immediately confusion hits you right in the face, and one gets lost easily
Truly the only remedy is to go back to the source, see the wiring diagram, and thus find the problem.
So it is with searching out God. God is the source, then while seeking God out ,God leads you to his Son. You come to belief, and your walk in him has started with the Holy Ghost guiding you, never forcing you, just showing you the right choices, you making them and when you do not make the right one (s), he God is still right there with you, he is not like us humans who segregate people. God is love, filled with mercy. Now that mercy is poured on those that seek it from God.
So bottom line let us love our neighbor as God would and did while he was here in the flesh on earth.

So one says one needs to be water baptised and gives God thanks. Another says it is not needed and gives God thanks. Another say it is needed but not for salvation it is the right thing to do, and gives God thanks
One views one day above another, the other views everyday alike, and both give God thanks
Re read Romans 14, yet please do not limit it to the food chapter. It applies here as well
ineffable love



celebratejesus911 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/7/2008 12:55:07 PM)

I think we make things harder than they are sometime. I simply state that Water Baptism is not a Must for salvation. The bible does not say that. Yes I am being literal. I won't post again on this because I don't want to waste time. I know that there are many more things on salvation, one is the verse on "work out your own salvation through fear and trembling". Another biggie is "Once Saved Always Saved?" But I only wanted to clarify for others who may be in the beginning of their walk, the Truth of Water Baptism not being a must for salvation. Yes, Gods Word is full of things we all need to learn, obey, submit to. If one wants to argue or debate, change the topic title. I have a tendency to pay close attention to the title, that's what brings me into a thread.

Are you saved but not baptized, yes, I was saved and then baptised. But I was not baptised then saved. It was a part of my obedience which I became willing to obey after being indwelled by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. And yes, I asked Jesus to come into my heart, I invited Him, I begged Him, I believed, so I asked, and after I asked, my belief was confirmed.

Living For Him, denise:)



greatdivide46 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/7/2008 1:26:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

I think we make things harder than they are sometime. I simply state that Water Baptism is not a Must for salvation. The bible does not say that. Yes I am being literal.

Literally speaking you may be right. But neither does the Bible say that one is saved by asking Jesus into their heart. Neither does the Bible say that one is saved by faith alone. Yes, I'm being literal.

quote:

I won't post again on this because I don't want to waste time.
I'm disappointed that I won't be hearing from you again and I'm disappointed that you think this is a waste of time. [:(]



celebratejesus911 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/7/2008 1:40:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: greatdivide46

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

I think we make things harder than they are sometime. I simply state that Water Baptism is not a Must for salvation. The bible does not say that. Yes I am being literal.

Literally speaking you may be right. But neither does the Bible say that one is saved by asking Jesus into their heart. Neither does the Bible say that one is saved by faith alone. Yes, I'm being literal.

quote:

I won't post again on this because I don't want to waste time.
I'm disappointed that I won't be hearing from you again and I'm disappointed that you think this is a waste of time. [:(]


Im sorry you are disappointed but maybe your expectations of me were too high:) Im a simple farm-girl in love with Jesus. I call it like I see it but don't waste my time that God has allowed me. Since I got the notification, thinking it was my answer to "tree view" question, I was already here, may as well answer. You will have to find someone else disagree with:) I am busy with Gods work, not peoples "wants" or heaven forbid, expectations.

God bless and have a great day:)



greatdivide46 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/7/2008 4:14:24 PM)

quote:

Im sorry you are disappointed but maybe your expectations of me were too high:) Im a simple farm-girl in love with Jesus. I call it like I see it but don't waste my time that God has allowed me. Since I got the notification, thinking it was my answer to "tree view" question, I was already here, may as well answer. You will have to find someone else disagree with:) I am busy with Gods work, not peoples "wants" or heaven forbid, expectations.

God bless and have a great day:)


OK, you too, Denise. [:)]



loveineffable -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/7/2008 4:19:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

quote:

ORIGINAL: greatdivide46

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebratejesus911

I think we make things harder than they are sometime. I simply state that Water Baptism is not a Must for salvation. The bible does not say that. Yes I am being literal.

Literally speaking you may be right. But neither does the Bible say that one is saved by asking Jesus into their heart. Neither does the Bible say that one is saved by faith alone. Yes, I'm being literal.

quote:

I won't post again on this because I don't want to waste time.
I'm disappointed that I won't be hearing from you again and I'm disappointed that you think this is a waste of time. [:(]


Im sorry you are disappointed but maybe your expectations of me were too high:) Im a simple farm-girl in love with Jesus. I call it like I see it but don't waste my time that God has allowed me. Since I got the notification, thinking it was my answer to "tree view" question, I was already here, may as well answer. You will have to find someone else disagree with:) I am busy with Gods work, not peoples "wants" or heaven forbid, expectations.

God bless and have a great day:)


You go girl tell it like it is, stand as the mighty oak tree that was a small nut that stood it's ground
we all have our views, and rights to say how it is for us in our individual walks.
Hopefully others will learn as well as we learn, having God as our discerners in all we hear and see.
Love ineffable



jtarantino -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/22/2008 12:56:11 AM)

When did it first appear? you know! these words IS IT PART OF SAVATION?

That is the problem with christianty to many books about salvation, to many books in general. Are we crazy!

There are so many things we need to do for Christ Jesus and we are still fighting about baptism and many other things.

I know what the bible says about how we are saved. you have to understand what the bible teaches and how it teaches. firswt it tells you what it means and then it shows you what it means application.

you know that scripture has to line up with scripture. if all the scripture about a particular doctrine does not line up it is wrong the (doctrine).

we need to move on to meat and get off of milk Hebrews 5:11 to 6:3 read it.

By grace you have been saved through faith, OK when you read and hear this what do you do? just say you believe? repeat a prayer? sigh a card?

there is alot we have to learn. is repenting a work or a faith? is believing a work or a faith? what is grace?

I know some of these bible scholars will be quick to answer. and come at me. and that is okl. because people are quick to judge and tell you you are wrong. and they are still on MILK and not on solid food (MEAT)

I will leave you with this. everybody that was baptized in the bible never talked about is it part of salvation they did it period.

I will be back

God Bless and may God increase your knowledge and understanding.

Jtarantino



greatdivide46 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/24/2008 4:54:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jtarantino

I will leave you with this. everybody that was baptized in the bible never talked about is it part of salvation they did it period.

They didn't need to talk about it because everyone in Bible times knew it was part of salvation. No need to say anything. People didn't start thinking baptism was not part of salvation until the 1500's when Zwingli advanced the view, for the first time, that baptism didn't have anything to do with salvation.



apostolic862004 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/24/2008 5:37:41 PM)

I saw a statement here that bothered me and I think it is the heart of this discussion.

quote:

True, but the first fruit of salvation seems to be the universal desire to obey the Lord's command to be baptized.


Now I may have misunderstood this so correct me if I am wrong. Since when does it matter whether or not we DESIRE to obey the Lord's commandments?

The heart of this discussion is not really whether or not we should be baptized. The root of it is whether or not we should obey Jesus' commandments.

Don't think water baptism is a commandment?
Acts 10
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days

Think that it was only Paul's words?

1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

1 Thess. 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

Now when we repent of our sins, we are dying to the old man right? What do you do with dead men? BURY THEM!

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

So if you have not been baptized, you have not been buried with him. How can you rise from a place that you never went?

In conclusion, baptism is not a choice, it is a commandment.



ChristianRink -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/24/2008 7:44:16 PM)

quote:

She's asking about the Believer's Baptism at conversion prior to being baptized in water - that Scripture is talking about them being Baptized in the Holy Spirit just like the Apostles were on Pentecost (they're already born-again prior to this act of grace) and then being baptized in water. But you are correct, believers can be Baptized in the Holy Spirit prior to water baptism - if anything, it proves that water baptism isn't required for salvation.


Derek, yeah man... I like he way you think!

I was infant baptized as an infant, but I was Born Again at the age of 32... I want to be baptized in water because the first time did not count. No infant can accept Christ as their Savior and that's a huge problem that people just don't get.

You mentioned
quote:

communion maintains our life by keeping us focused on Christ's work on the cross


I def. disagree with this... If you are Born Again I would follow what Jesus says here
quote:

Rev 2:5 “‘Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.


Meaning what you did inorder to receive Salvation through Grace, keep doing it!



AboundinginHisGrace -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/24/2008 10:48:59 PM)

If one of our main goals as Christians is to point people to Christ, in turn they repenting and being saved, then why did Paul say he didn't come to baptize? If baptism is a requirement for salvation, I do not think Paul would have made this statement in the scriptures below. I do think we as believers are to be baptized, but it does not merit salvation. God does not need our help to cleanse us of our sins. Anyways, here is the scripture I was referring too.

1 Cor 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.



vcjesusfreak -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/24/2008 10:59:58 PM)

there is no requirement to be babtized by water. the reqirement is that you are babtized in the holy spirit



bob97 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/25/2008 12:35:45 AM)

quote:

I do think we as believers are to be baptized, but it does not merit salvation. God does not need our help to cleanse us of our sins. Anyways, here is the scripture I was referring too.


See InHisGrace... we agree on something.

Bob



apostolic862004 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/25/2008 9:33:46 AM)

quote:

there is no requirement to be babtized by water. the reqirement is that you are babtized in the holy spirit


John3: 1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

In verse 3 Jesus said that you must be born again. We all agree that in order to go to heaven, you must be born again. The question is, what constitutes a NEW birth? That is what Nicodemus asked in verse 4.

He could not understand how you could be born again. So in verse 5, Jesus explains that how to be born again. It is of the water (water baptism) and of the Spirit (spirit baptism). It you have not be baptised by both, you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. And to further validate that point, Jesus went on to say that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit.

So what was he saying? Well, we know that flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God so you have to be born again!

By the way, if you don't believe that water baptism is part of what saves us, how do you explain this:

1 Peter 3: 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ



vcjesusfreak -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/25/2008 10:15:52 AM)

Then what do you think happens if you have been babtized in the holy spirit as an adult, but you were only a child when you were babtized by water.



apostolic862004 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/25/2008 11:44:37 AM)

Acts: 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

I don't think their is an age at which it is safe to say they can be baptized. Whatever age they can understand who Jesus is, what he did, and then fully believe it is when they can be baptized and it be effective.

So at the time of baptism, it would be sufficient as long as you fully believed, had repented of your sins ALREADY, and you were baptized in the name of Jesus. (We will not get into the discussion of how to be baptized on this thread but I do believe their is a right way and a wrong way to be baptized.)



AboundinginHisGrace -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/25/2008 12:19:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

quote:

I do think we as believers are to be baptized, but it does not merit salvation. God does not need our help to cleanse us of our sins. Anyways, here is the scripture I was referring too.


See InHisGrace... we agree on something.

Bob


LOL yeah, I am sure we agree on most all things, just not election thing. I do not discount reformists some of my favorite writers are reformists and some of my best friends are as well. I see where reformists are coming from, I do. I do not fully understand it, I believe Gods sovereignty and mans free-will both exist, how I do not know, they are both in the bible. I believe that without the Holy Spirit opening your eyes you will not seek God, I also believe Salvation is a gift from God, I do not believe there is anything we can do to merit salvation. I do not believe you can lose your salvation. So I am pretty close to a 5 Point Calvinist, I am around a 3.5-4.5.



greatdivide46 -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/25/2008 11:10:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace

If one of our main goals as Christians is to point people to Christ, in turn they repenting and being saved, then why did Paul say he didn't come to baptize? If baptism is a requirement for salvation, I do not think Paul would have made this statement in the scriptures below. I do think we as believers are to be baptized, but it does not merit salvation. God does not need our help to cleanse us of our sins. Anyways, here is the scripture I was referring too.

1 Cor 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

As you can see by the Scripture quoted above, Paul's main emphasis here is not whether baptism is or is not necessary. He is actually addressing divisions in the church. Apparently the Corinthians were dividing based on who baptized them. So, Paul's writing here presupposes the importance of baptism, not it's irrelevance.

While Paul may not have been sent to baptize, that doesn't mean that no one was sent to baptize. We all have different callings from the Lord and some, obviously, were called to baptize. And some, such as Paul, were called to preach the gospel. That doesn't mean that Paul thought baptism wasn't a necessary part of the process of salvation.



FolkSingerBlues -> RE: Are you saved but not baptized? (7/27/2008 8:11:20 PM)

Who was told they would be baptized in the Holy Spirit and where?



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