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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/9/2008 5:45:01 PM
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ljmac
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: Random
A few links with some details, but probably not enough of them:
LA Times article
Obama told the gathering that he no longer had credit card debt, but that was not always the case. "Five years ago, before I had spoken at the convention, before my book sales took off, etc., we were in same situation," he said.
"My wife and I borrowed to go to college and law school because we don't come from wealthy families. When I got out of law school and we got married, our combined student loan debt was higher than our mortgage," Obama said. "And so it took us 10 years to pay that off, which meant that we couldn't save."
[I would add that also made it hard to give generously at that time]
Google Article
It wasn't until Barack Obama wrote a pair of best-selling books that he and his wife escaped their student loan debt, an experience Michelle Obama said Tuesday helps the couple understand everyday challenges better than policymakers in Washington.
[I can't find much more than that, mainly b/c Michelle Obama discussed this in a speech yesterday, so all the google hits go to articles about that. The thing I am recalling is much older, but I don't have time to wade through hundreds of pages of google hits to find it.]
Almost every adult is in debt. It's called life and it's no excuse. "I'm too restricted by my Ivy League law school loan," is not the kind of argument that sells in the real world.
Suppose we all waited until we were debt free millionaires running for President before we gave to charity?
True charity doesn't come from what's left over.
Just so we're clear. We're supposed to take care of our own, but give what we don't have to give and thus go deeper into debt which we're supposed to pay off but still keep giving because we have to. Just trying to make sure that's what you're stance is.
Not at all. I believe we've got an obligation to give to the Church and other charities. That comes first, not last.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/9/2008 6:29:48 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 653
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: Random
A few links with some details, but probably not enough of them:
LA Times article
Obama told the gathering that he no longer had credit card debt, but that was not always the case. "Five years ago, before I had spoken at the convention, before my book sales took off, etc., we were in same situation," he said.
"My wife and I borrowed to go to college and law school because we don't come from wealthy families. When I got out of law school and we got married, our combined student loan debt was higher than our mortgage," Obama said. "And so it took us 10 years to pay that off, which meant that we couldn't save."
[I would add that also made it hard to give generously at that time]
Google Article
It wasn't until Barack Obama wrote a pair of best-selling books that he and his wife escaped their student loan debt, an experience Michelle Obama said Tuesday helps the couple understand everyday challenges better than policymakers in Washington.
[I can't find much more than that, mainly b/c Michelle Obama discussed this in a speech yesterday, so all the google hits go to articles about that. The thing I am recalling is much older, but I don't have time to wade through hundreds of pages of google hits to find it.]
Almost every adult is in debt. It's called life and it's no excuse. "I'm too restricted by my Ivy League law school loan," is not the kind of argument that sells in the real world.
Suppose we all waited until we were debt free millionaires running for President before we gave to charity?
True charity doesn't come from what's left over.
Just so we're clear. We're supposed to take care of our own, but give what we don't have to give and thus go deeper into debt which we're supposed to pay off but still keep giving because we have to. Just trying to make sure that's what you're stance is.
Not at all. I believe we've got an obligation to give to the Church and other charities. That comes first, not last.
Ok. Cool. I don't have an issue with that at all. In all likelihood I misunderstood what you wrote. If so then mea culpa.
I only wanted to make it clear that there are other interpretations of what's been presented than one narrow view of it. You don't have to agree on the particulars, but you can't say for sure that you know one way or the other based solely on a tax return.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/9/2008 7:56:24 PM
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jimbob1
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We can keep going round & round & even PRETEND that maybe the Obamas are secretly very, very generous (there is however not 1 piece of proof that they gave anthing but a mere pittance.
EDIT - comments about tithing removed, as they are off topic to this thread. There is a one-stop thread for tithing.
< Message edited by Random -- 4/9/2008 9:44:21 PM >
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/10/2008 9:38:54 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1923
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
I guarantee when Obama's 2007 returns come out, they will be higher still)
Hey Jack,
Have they been released yet?
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/10/2008 10:54:15 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 6771
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Hey Jack,
Have they been released yet?
Not yet, and I wouldn't expect them to until May at least. Hillary released her '00-'06 returns.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/10/2008 2:27:46 PM
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adelphi_sky
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This is getting out of hand. The truth is, from what Obama has given, SOMEONE was blessed. The truth is Obama is but one man. It is up to ALL of us to give. Think about it. There were people in need before Obama got here. What does that say? There were people before him who didn't do their part and are still not doing their part. Another truth, Obama has been blessed to give and will be able to give in the future more than most of us could ever give in our lifetime. Could some of us be jealous? I'm praising God for the fact that he gave SOMETHING. Yet, we can parade our entertainers and God forbid even some pastors who spend lavishly on themselves. Well, they deserve it because they are men and women of God. Well, couldn't some of that lavish self indulgence be sacrificed for a few more hungry mouths to feed? Of course! But nooooooo. Obama is running for president. Therefore, he should be giving what we think he should give. And what is that really? The man is barely a millionaire and a new one at that. Yet, some presidents had tens of millions. But certainly didn't give 50% or even 80%. Because we all know that even if you have 10 million left over, that's plenty to live off of. Why did they get a pass?
No wonder people run from Christians. Too judgmental. I think we get so caught up is judging someone's character based on superficial things, we forget to focus on what really matters. You certainly can not judge if someone is caring enough by how much they give. We can see that in wayward pastors and even some popular philanthropists. It's interesting how God chooses the least for greatness. But we approve of people we perceive as greatness who do little or do harm. Elliot Spitzer comes to mind. The great prosecutor who saved wall street from crooks and stamped out prostitution rings. Yet, behind closed doors, he was the opposite. Obama is not perfect, but he's not half bad either. I only hope to be able to give what he has been able to give. At least what's been reported. I feel what is important to God is if we have loved our neighbors and our enemies like He calls us to do. From that standpoint, regardless if you think he has the mind of his pastor or not, I think he's cared enough through his work before he was senator and after. Like I said in a previous post, he's not called to be a pastor, let's stop judging him like he is one. Dare we says he's not hitting the mark of a Good Christian. We ALL fall short of that mark DAILY. Only Christ bridges the gap.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 11:34:17 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1923
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quote:
I wouldn't expect them to until May at least
Thanks Jack. I just figured it would be released on April 16th. 
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 12:12:56 PM
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jkdjr25
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Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
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I once read a philosophy paper by a man who thought that we should give until we're almost as bad off as the people we're helping. He didn't do this himself and had the temerity to chastise others who didn't and then claimed he wasn't a hypocrit.
I see a lot of that attitude right now.
Well he only gave x amount. Alright then. How much did you give?
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 12:16:01 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6771
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
The man is barely a millionaire and a new one at that.
Yeah, as we all know, it takes a number of years to get used to being a millionaire, horrible burden that it is.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 12:19:29 PM
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rainbowtvp
Posts: 1084
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: The Unted State of Confusion
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
The man is barely a millionaire and a new one at that.
Yeah, as we all know, it takes a number of years to get used to being a millionaire, horrible burden that it is.
I will selflessly carry that burden for anyone who is afflicted (interested parties can PM me).
Tara P
_____________________________
http://www.geocities.com/hallscola67/KyliesHomemadeShopIndex.htm
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 12:23:07 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6771
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
I will selflessly carry that burden for anyone who is afflicted (interested parties can PM me).
Amen, sister, let's not let our millionaire brethren suffer alone!
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 1:01:14 PM
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RightlyDividingWordOfTruth
Posts: 44
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Oakland
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When I saw the Obama's tax returns I was like wow..They don't tithe 10%. lol But, hey they can work that out with God. I dont' know their situation or their relationship w/ God. It didnt' change my thinking of them.
I saw the Clintons and I was like oo wow I don't think of them as being sooo spiritual especially their conduct during this campaign but they tithe. 10% of their 109 million went to charity. Found out it went to their foundation which was weird.. Giving to your Clinton Foundation, but hey it still went. Their tithing didn't change my opinion of them either.
Money doesn't change my opinion of people. I am not making excuses for the Obama's but in reality tithing isn't something you do as a robot.
It is a really personal and almost worship experience you have w/ the Lord. Maybe they are still growing in Christ and in learning how to trust Him w/ their finances and all of their needs. Or maybe they are some penny pinchers and don't like to give and help others. I don't know. But, I am not here to judge them on their walk w/ Christ.
Also..this might not be the case but there is a self righteous vibe throughout this thread. I tithe and give an offering as well. Not to mention helping the homeless outside of my church giving. However, there are people who sacrifice a lot more than I do. Large parts of their income...but these folks aren't better than me..I don't care if they are giving 90% of their income away. And if someone just gives their basic tithe or non at all no one is above or more righteous or right w/ God due to these things.
< Message edited by RightlyDividingWordOfTruth -- 4/11/2008 1:13:07 PM >
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 1:49:14 PM
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P31W
Posts: 1923
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
I see a lot of that attitude right now.
Well he only gave x amount. Alright then. How much did you give?
A heck of a lot more than he did.
Heck elderly widows who are retired farmers in my church gave more than he did. My lost friends gave more to chairty than he reported he did.
Can I ask you to answer now your own question? How much did "you" give?
quote:
Money doesn't change my opinion of people.
I look at how people handle their money. It helps me see if they are good stewards or idiots with money. I don't want to vote some guy to be our President who is an idiot with money.
quote:
Also..this might not be the case but there is a self righteous vibe throughout this thread.
Naw.....it's called common sense. 
quote:
I am not here to judge them on their walk w/ Christ.
Good!!!! because that is not what this thread is about.
quote:
The man is barely a millionaire and a new one at that.
ROFL - I don't know who said this but that's a HOOT.
Also the truth is we don't know if they are currently millionaires or not. They may have become millionaires 10 years ago? What we do know is their "income" if what they reported is "all" they brought in.
You don't become a millionaire by making a million dollars in income in a year. Nor do you need to ever come close to making a million dollars in one year to be one. Most millionaires in this country don't make a million dollars per year the last time I checked.
< Message edited by P31W -- 4/11/2008 2:07:47 PM >
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 3:55:48 PM
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RightlyDividingWordOfTruth
Posts: 44
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Oakland
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
A heck of a lot more than he did.
Heck elderly widows who are retired farmers in my church gave more than he did. My lost friends gave more to chairty than he reported he did.
Can I ask you to answer now your own question? How much did "you" give?
You are missing the point in a big way and I guess that won't change. In terms of dollar amount I gave less than what he gave and he nor you, nor the widows or anyone else more righteous, holy, or better than me or anyone else if you gave mroe. Nor do any of you have a better relationship w/ Christ because of it. Simple.
I look at how people handle their money. It helps me see if they are good stewards or idiots with money. I don't want to vote some guy to be our President who is an idiot with money.
Yes, I too believe that God has called us to be good stewards of our finances. And if you take a look at the news articles Obama has been the best steward in this campaign w/ his finances or more appropriately w/ the money the people have donated to his campaign. That can not be said for any other remaining candidate. This guy has handled his finances well too paid off his personal debts to say the least. Now he didn't give to others in a way that was measurable up to your standard, but that doesn't prove he was bad w/ finances. Just may not give up to your standard or record it appropriately.
quote:
Also..this might not be the case but there is a self righteous vibe throughout this thread.
Naw.....it's called common sense.
Once again we are at odds. How is commenting on someones giving "common sense". Or this guy is wrong because they don't give enough "common sense". It's an attitude that they are less and should be more and they are less because of their giving patterns. Simple. No one is better than anyone else for how much money they give. You are not the judge.
quote:
I am not here to judge them on their walk w/ Christ.
Good!!!! because that is not what this thread is about.
Well, that is what it has become. People are discrediting others due to their giving. Can you really be a good Christian w/ such low giving? You are definitely not a good Christian..... That's the vibe in this thread.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 4:22:44 PM
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wtsyes
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It's pretty clear that Obama is a hypocrite by his word and actions; claiming to care about the poor, but giving next to nothing to the poor. It is not generous and charitable to give someone else's money away, as in tax dollars, it must come from your own personal bank account.
Judging IS something we are to do as believers, just find out what the original text was so you can understand what type of judging we are to do. Inspect the fruit, test the spirit are just a few of the english translations that tell believers to judge. Judge not lest you be judged is refering to not condemning someone like the rulers did with the adulterous woman. Judging the way the Lord did in the gospels is necessary to protect the church from false teaching and mis-leading people. Jesus, Paul, Peter, John the baptist are just a few names of people who judged harshly; "judge not lest you be judged" was violated by them many times and you cannot explain that away.
Paul went from judge not lest you be judged to inspect the fruit in one day. He still had a temper, and raised his voice, but instead of sending someone to death with his judging, he spoke out against falsehood.
hummmmm, falsehood; claiming to care about the poor while giving next to nothing of their own money to the poor.
Many studies on charitable giving have documented the fact that conservatives and evangelical/conservative/christians give far more money to the poor than liberals, liberal/republicans, liberal/democrates, liberal/christians.
Repent of your sins and follow the Lord requires leaving the politics of people who are teachers of false beliefs and doing the works Jesus has planned for your life which is spoken about in Ephesians 2:10.
This world will continue to move toward a one world government of people who want to solve all the problems of this life with government solutions like the democrats and liberal republicans propose, but it will only lead to the anti-christ. Dolly llama, Oprah, Eckart Toll, are many people who will use kind words, words of compassion to move people away from God.
Finding those who are lost and will accept Jesus is the job believers have in this life, being a fisher of men, so get to work at your job and quit trying to defend a speaker of mis-spoken words no matter how many promisses they make about helping the poor.
God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not die, but have eternal life. It's your job to speak this truth because eternity is forever. Get to work at your real job.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 4:26:02 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1163
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
Many studies on charitable giving have documented the fact that conservatives and evangelical/conservative/christians give far more money to the poor than liberals, liberal/republicans, liberal/democrates, liberal/christians.
Some interesting stats on who gives. Conservatives give more than liberals..
Says Brooks: "The most charitable people in America today are the working poor."
African-Americans give 25 percent more of their discretionary income to charity than do others. For instance, African-Americans who make between $30,000 and $50,000 give an average of $528 annually, compared with $462 donated by their white counterparts in the same income range.
People see these false gospel people giving, and think that's right because that is what God said to do! And what do Christians do, tells us hunger is good! Greed is good!
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 4/11/2008 4:34:26 PM >
_____________________________
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 4:43:53 PM
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RightlyDividingWordOfTruth
Posts: 44
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Oakland
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wtsyes
It's pretty clear that Obama is a hypocrite by his word and actions; claiming to care about the poor, but giving next to nothing to the poor. It is not generous and charitable to give someone else's money away, as in tax dollars, it must come from your own personal bank account.
Judging IS something we are to do as believers, just find out what the original text was so you can understand what type of judging we are to do. Inspect the fruit, test the spirit are just a few of the english translations that tell believers to judge. Judge not lest you be judged is refering to not condemning someone like the rulers did with the adulterous woman. Judging the way the Lord did in the gospels is necessary to protect the church from false teaching and mis-leading people. Jesus, Paul, Peter, John the baptist are just a few names of people who judged harshly; "judge not lest you be judged" was violated by them many times and you cannot explain that away.
Paul went from judge not lest you be judged to inspect the fruit in one day. He still had a temper, and raised his voice, but instead of sending someone to death with his judging, he spoke out against falsehood.
hummmmm, falsehood; claiming to care about the poor while giving next to nothing of their own money to the poor.
Many studies on charitable giving have documented the fact that conservatives and evangelical/conservative/christians give far more money to the poor than liberals, liberal/republicans, liberal/democrates, liberal/christians.
Repent of your sins and follow the Lord requires leaving the politics of people who are teachers of false beliefs and doing the works Jesus has planned for your life which is spoken about in Ephesians 2:10.
This world will continue to move toward a one world government of people who want to solve all the problems of this life with government solutions like the democrats and liberal republicans propose, but it will only lead to the anti-christ. Dolly llama, Oprah, Eckart Toll, are many people who will use kind words, words of compassion to move people away from God.
Finding those who are lost and will accept Jesus is the job believers have in this life, being a fisher of men, so get to work at your job and quit trying to defend a speaker of mis-spoken words no matter how many promisses they make about helping the poor.
God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not die, but have eternal life. It's your job to speak this truth because eternity is forever. Get to work at your real job.
You assume so much knowledge about my life yet I know you not. I am fulfilling my God given identity. Trust. And I will speak up for anyone who needs my help regardless of their actions or what you or anyone else may think of them.
I am not taking up for BHO..I am taking up for anyone who doesn't give according to other's standards. Some people give in ways that can't be counted w/ money. Is their giving considered less? The focus on money. This doesn't excuse the Obama's are whoever..but I consider my time and talent valuable when I give that for free it is MAJOR and doesn't show up on my taxs. So will you sit in judgement of me too because my giving doesn't measure up to your standard?
I tithe faithfully so my 10% does show up on my tax's, but still it could be more in some peopels eyes.
I stated that their (The Obamas) low giving shocked me too. I am sad to see that they didn't even register their tithe on the tax form. But, I don't know their situation or why it doesn't show up or why they haven't given.
However, I have to be about God's business and that isn't tearing anyone down because of their apparent lack of giving. Yes quote scripture to speak about what their lack of giving could mean, but some of the comments in this thread have gone beyond that. I quoted scripture about how it's hard to trust HRC w/ her Bosnia lies. It's in scripture if you can't be faithful and honest over the little things how can you be trusted w/ the bigger things.
So I am on my post guaranteed..I am about God's business. I will cal it how it should be called. I am not blinded by any of these candidates. I see what I consider bad and good in all of them. I have taken that into account and have made a decision on who to support. Despite all the bad in them and the good in them.
Giving is only one of the qualifications. I know a lot of people in my church who give to alot of stuff are very charitable and helpful. But, are some of the most gossiping, back stabbing, and sneak untrustworthy folks I know. So in my experience this isn't a measurement that tells all that needs to be known about an individual.
Also...in regards to the religious government stuff. I am not afraid of the Anti-Christ..no matter what we do he/she will come. The end of times is coming. I am not in charge of God's plan and I can't change what he has already written was going to happen. So if he chooses to do it this way..through one world goverment etc...Than let it be so. Fighting and fighting and fighting isn't going to stop the Lords plan. It's coming and it's going to happen.
< Message edited by RightlyDividingWordOfTruth -- 4/11/2008 4:59:17 PM >
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/11/2008 7:28:16 PM
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Random
Posts: 1154
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Zipperhead
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wtsyes
Many studies on charitable giving have documented the fact that conservatives and evangelical/conservative/christians give far more money to the poor than liberals, liberal/republicans, liberal/democrates, liberal/christians.
Can you show me a study that says this? I have seen many studies saying that conservatives and evangelicals give more to *charity* (including their church, some of which pays salaries, building costs, etc. -- i.e. does not go to "the poor") but I've never seen one that says they give more to "the poor".
_____________________________
Desmond Hume has come unstuck in time.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/12/2008 12:50:42 AM
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jimbob1
Posts: 39
Joined: 3/16/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Random
quote:
ORIGINAL: wtsyes
Many studies on charitable giving have documented the fact that conservatives and evangelical/conservative/christians give far more money to the poor than liberals, liberal/republicans, liberal/democrates, liberal/christians.
Can you show me a study that says this? I have seen many studies saying that conservatives and evangelicals give more to *charity* (including their church, some of which pays salaries, building costs, etc. -- i.e. does not go to "the poor") but I've never seen one that says they give more to "the poor".
There are lots some were in major publications, I even saw 1 or 2 on this site but the search engine isn't working, sorry.
Professor Stumbles on the Obvious: Conservatives More Generous Than Liberals
Poor liberals. Blindsided with science, yet again.
In his book "Who Really Cares: the Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism" Arthur C. Brooks has mustered the forces of science to learn what those of us who have been in the charity business have known all along: when it comes to the charitable impulse, liberals are only compelled to give away other peoples' money. Left to their own devices, they'd just as soon pass the plate up and have somebody else fill it.
According to the findings, not only are conservatives more compassionate than liberals, as measured by financial generosity, religious conservatives are the most giving people in America. In fact, while liberals make more money, poor conservatives still give more as a percentage of their income.
Conservatives give, on the average, 30% more of their income than liberals, and not only to their churches. Even when we're talking about social causes, the arts, and entertainment, conservatives are more generous than liberals. This, indeed, is a major cause of the long-held financial advantage of the Republican party. The Democrats could always raise large sums from interest groups, but when it came to small, individual donations and party loyalists, they didn't have a snowball's chance of beating the fund-raising prowess of the conservatives in the GOP. Even this year, conservatives out-raised and out-spent liberals by a wide margin; it was not better funding that beat the GOP this time out.
http://www.pardonmyenglish.com/archives/2006/11/professor_stumb_1.html
FIRST-PERSON: So, who really cares more about the poor?
Bottom line let's not be 2008 versions of Ananias and Sapphira;God loves cheerful givers-let's not hold back.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/12/2008 8:26:06 AM
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Random
Posts: 1154
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Zipperhead
Status: offline
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Thanks, that helps.
I just hadn't seen a study that broke out where the giving went.
_____________________________
Desmond Hume has come unstuck in time.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/12/2008 10:50:49 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1923
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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Random,
Here is a pretty interesting interview with Brooks.
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/12493
WORLD: You compare the charitable giving of a person who goes to church each week and strongly opposes governmental income redistribution with that of a person who never attends a house of worship and strongly believes in government income redistribution . . .
BROOKS: That's correct. A person who goes to church every week and strongly rejects the idea that it is the government's responsibility to redistribute income will give, on average, 100 times more money to charity each year than a person who never attends a house of worship, and strongly believes that the government should reduce income differences between people. The religious person who is a government skeptic will also give about 50 times more to explicitly nonreligious causes. In other words, attitudes about the government compound the charity gap we see due to faith.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/12/2008 10:59:38 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1923
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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RightlyDividingWordOfTruth
I had a feeling that some on this section of the forum use more than one forum name.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/12/2008 11:15:25 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 1651
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Someone correct me if I am wrong but McCain said he would release his on April 15?
McCain's charitable giving does not concern me as much as Obama's because Obama is running on the idea that he "cares" about helping the poor and oppressed people. McCain in saying that he is a "leader".
Looking over Obama's 2000 return shows they paid more in real estate taxes than they gave to chairty. They paid several times more (about 5) in interest than they gave to chairty.
Although there are many issues that would cause me to choose McCain over Obama, I would be just as concerned about his charitable giving record as I am Obama's. Especially since places more responsibility on the individual to help. And although I don't want to in anyway try and defend Obama's record on giving, I think it is important to be fair. Many home owners find themselves paying more in interest than they give to charity because annual interest on a home lone can be as much as 30% of many peoples annual income. Add that to people who mismanage credit card debt and it is not surprising at all to find people who pay more in interest than they give. That by itself is not an indication of stinginess.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/12/2008 11:18:39 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1923
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Although there are many issues that would cause me to choose McCain over Obama, I would be just as concerned about his charitable giving record as I am Obama's.
I believe I have already posted it on this thread. Let me check.
Yep here it is. It was post number 13.
ohn and Cindy McCain gave away almost a million dollars between 2000-2006.
They have their own foundation they give to. Most of their giving goes to the foundation and then distributed to various causes they support.
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2006/860/817/2006-860817541-031154ca-F.pdf
Here is the foundations 2006 tax return. If you study the return you will see they gave over $80K that year to the foundation. On about page 13 or 14 you can see how funds were distributed. You can also see that the McCains recieved no money from the foundation in any form.
< Message edited by P31W -- 4/12/2008 11:24:52 AM >
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/12/2008 11:24:58 AM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 653
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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There's something that I feel needs to be asked, if only to put a bit of a reality check into play.
Of all the money that conservatives are so proud to announce that they give, how much of it actually goes to the cause itself? What percentage goes into management, worke | | |
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