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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 3:14:49 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
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quote:
Since i"m sure this will be an "I hate Hagin" thread, I think I'll step out of this one. It seems each time I try to show that he's ok, someone throws in the 'one' line garbage to 'prove' how bad he is, not to mention refusing to ACTUALLY listen to what he says instead of twisting all his words. I've followed Hagin for 20 years now, but I know you all won't listen. So enjoy your 'feast.' I'm outa here.
kim
You try to show that he's ok?If you agree with him theologically then the Jesus I serve is not the same as yours.The difference between our beliefs are way to different to be reconciled.Btw,nobody here is throwing out one-liners and so forth,there are very convincing videos put forth from the posters.
With all due respect,I could care less if you have followed him for 350 years if he preaches a different Gospel I have absolutely no problem calling him a false preacher.
Do you follow Hagin or the word of God?The fact that his followers can't/won't see their false teachings is very sad.
Propitiation
quote:
Exactly Sammy S. What God are they teaching about? When I went through its schooling all I heard about was God wanting me to prosper, tithing, blessings and God's love. Not once did I hear about God's judgement, wrath and his hatred of sin. You can't teach God's love unless you also teach about His holiness and judgement. In fact, I remember reading through the Old Testament wondering who that angered filled God was. Scary huh?
What God are they teaching?Clearly not our God of the bible Prop.God does want his people to prosper and they do!The thing is that these people are wickedly trapped in a wordly state where prospering is all about what the world says is prosperity and not based on the Word of God.
The brave christians in the Middle East and other regions where christian are persucuted and sometimes very very poor are tremendously prosperous!The Lord has and is blessing these people in the mist of hardship but what breaks my heart is that these so called christian preachers by their teachings are saying that these people are not fuffilling God's will for their lives by struggling in this world.
Can you imagine a christian abused,poor and so forth for his faith hearing the garbage that comes from the pulpits of America/Canada??
I always say this.these "preachers" must be studying their doctrine from psychologist and business man and not the word of God because was not Paul poor and struggling for the Gospel??
rlj
quote:
Sometimes I think the biggest problem is the complete lack of common courtesy. Can you at least be honest enough to say that this is the official Bash Kenneth Hagin forum instead of pretending like you want to have a discussion? If Kim has something nice to say about Hagin or positive I will listen to her out of politeness and courtesy.
This is probobly going to sound harsh and peharps it is but i am sure that there are "positive" things to say about Satan like how he works very very hard but that doesnt discount who he is.My point is that,there are so called "positives" we can draw from anyone but it doesnt erase anything.
The fact that you could not be heart-broken/angered by the false teachings is interesting especially since Christ did not write love letters to the pharisees and this is what paul says:
"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Galatians 1:6-10
quote:
It goes on to say that Christ humbled himself further and suffered to the point of dying on a cross. If Christ can do all of that for me then I try to at least respect and treat with courtesy my brothers and sisters in Christ who I disagree with or who are wrong or who I happen to think are wrong.* If for no other reason then we are told to esteem others as better than ourselves and I don't recall there being any exceptions.
*At least on matters of faith.
Calling out false teachers is not treating others poorly.Paul had no problem calling people out and so forth,there are some that may do so wickedly but I know that many here do so for all the right reasons like Christ and Paul.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 8:33:58 AM
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rlj
Posts: 1708
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
This is probobly going to sound harsh and peharps it is but i am sure that there are "positive" things to say about Satan like how he works very very hard but that doesnt discount who he is.My point is that,there are so called "positives" we can draw from anyone but it doesnt erase anything.
Nothing harsh at all. Sadly now you have me thinking of the old song "Rock and Roll Heaven".
quote:
Calling out false teachers is not treating others poorly.Paul had no problem calling people out and so forth,there are some that may do so wickedly but I know that many here do so for all the right reasons like Christ and Paul.
I don't object to it and as a matter of fact I made some critical comments on Hagin on another thread. I don't object to those calling him out or do I object to listening to those that do respect him and why. My objection is if one is going to make a thread for the point of "calling out" someone then say that is what you're going to do. If one is going to make a thread to say you want a discussion then show some courtesy. Whether we like or dislike Hagin the fact still remains that many of our brothers and sisters in Christ do like and respect him. There has to be a reason why and I have no problem with hearing people out on it. I would rather listen to what Dancre has to say then go to a Hank website and cut/paste someone who is going to tell me what she has to say.
As for my opinion on "big time" preachers as a whole I ignore all of them except for Chuck Swindoll who's books I read when I can and Jack Hayford because I bought a Spirit Filled Life Study Bible and it is excellent. (Thanks Gayle for bringing him to my attention a couple years ago when you pointed out he was taking charge of the Four Square church)
So anyway when RC James who has decades of experience with Christianity says there's a difference between Hagin Sr. and Hagin Jr. I'd like to know what it is other than "they're both heretics" because that's enough for me to know there is a difference. There is a difference or was a difference between Jimmy and Donnie Swaggart.
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 9:48:22 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3321
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I was not harsh. Not at all; in fact, I felt in my spirit, not to be that way. Now the flesh did have a wrestle with the Spirit.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 2:41:16 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4693
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
So anyway when RC James who has decades of experience with Christianity says there's a difference between Hagin Sr. and Hagin Jr. I'd like to know what it is other than "they're both heretics" because that's enough for me to know there is a difference.
Excuse me. I did not say they were the same or different, I only wanted to know which person this thread was going to discuss.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 3:00:49 PM
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BlackCapnHarlock
Posts: 434
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Propitiation
You got that right, Soxfan. The tulsa/broken arrow area is an infested wof breeding ground equivalent to a mosquitoes breeding ground.
NO, NO, NO, NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO'
This is the worst statement I have EVER SEEN on this website!!!!!
You are comparing fellow CHRISTIANS TO SKEETERS!!!!!! (mosquitoes for you non South Easterners). HOW RUDE!!! I'm sorry but this is way rude and adds nothing to the debate nor discussion.
There are many good yet MISGUIDED Christians in what is called thee WORD OF FAITH, movement, don't insult your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ by comparing them to pests.
I disagree with the WORD OF FAITH doctrine, thee Catholic doctrine, the Southern Baptist doctrine, the Orthodox doctrine thee, Charsimatic/Pentecostal doctrines, the Methodist doctrines, etc. .. TEHRE ARE BIBLICAL FLAWS in almost all of the 30,000+ denominations of Christians on this planet.
However the moments I call Catholics or Orthodox or Baptists mosquitoes is the moment that I need to remember what CHRIST doctrine truly is.
_____________________________
Ezekiel 16:6 Eze 16:6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 3:23:12 PM
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BlackCapnHarlock
Posts: 434
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I grew up on Kenneth Hagin Sr. I've heard some very discouraging things about him in recent years such as closet racism. But I have to look at his doctrine seriously now that I'm studying better than I did when I first became a Chrsitian.
I often remember listening to his sermons as a kids for hours a day, my family are bid WOF/Charismatic folks have been since I was in the fifth and sixth grades.
That teaching and the doctrine taught me many good and true things about Christ it also taught me many bad and false things about GOD and being a Christian.
I grew up with the notion that being a Christian was easy, that GOD would give me all the money, health, and wealth and whatever I wanted or needed as long as I prayed and didn't sin and of course had FAITH.
If something goes bad it's because of sin, or you don't have faith or GOD is testing you like Job to make you healthier, wealthier and richer at a later date.
What grand perversions these are of the story of JOB and the purpose of JESUS THE CHRIST.
JESUS BECAME POOR SO THAT I MIGHT BECOME RICH $$$$$$$$$$$$$ was preached and twisted so much.
But that's the word of fatih doctrine. I had anger with GOD because of that doctrine, because of that teaching that was wrong, now that I am studying true doctrine, I realize being a Christian is a hard thing and that GOD isn't Santa Claus, but he is a good and constant anchor in the storm.
I loved Benny Hinn, "Papa Hagin" as we call him in my family to this day, Norvel Hayes, and others. I remember spending hours listening to Dr. Leroy Thompson shouting MONEY COMETH!!!!!!! Thinking that as long as I wrote a check out to JESUS (I used to have have a 100 million dollar tithe check to the Holy spirit taped on my wall in college, showing GOD that I would be faithful in tithes in offerings even when I became a billionaire).
Just sick teaching, just wrong teaching . . .
Kenneth Hagin taught people how to grow with GOD to two generations of Christians he's "Papa Hagin" he taught us that GOD wanted us to be healthy and whole and that GOD was not dead but living and loving and wanted a relationship with us and that GOD'S power is here for us today.
I still believe those things, however with BIBLICAL REASON and SOUND CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE now, GOD isn't Santa Claus and I'm not screwed up because he doesn't answer a prayer or meet a need, neither is GOD.
So I think there are some good things about Hagin's doctrine, because some people are too traditional and have too narrow a view of what GOD can do today, he had his faults and his doctrine had it's faults but name one preacher who didn't or doesn't.
I hope Hagin is in Heaven and I am thankful for all the good things he has taught me and even the bad, for the bad has helped me warn others and lead them toward the good.
JIH "Papa Hagin" (Jam in Heaven).
_____________________________
Ezekiel 16:6 Eze 16:6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 3:53:07 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1505
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BlackCapn
Kenneth Hagin taught people how to grow with GOD to two generations of Christians he's "Papa Hagin" he taught us that GOD wanted us to be healthy and whole and that GOD was not dead but living and loving and wanted a relationship with us and that GOD'S power is here for us today.
I still believe those things, however with BIBLICAL REASON and SOUND CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE now, GOD isn't Santa Claus and I'm not screwed up because he doesn't answer a prayer or meet a need, neither is GOD.
So I think there are some good things about Hagin's doctrine, because some people are too traditional and have too narrow a view of what GOD can do today, he had his faults and his doctrine had it's faults but name one preacher who didn't or doesn't.
Good post, thank you. There are good things to be gleaned and things to set aside in every teacher and preacher.
Thanks for your perspective on him. I appreciate hearing from someone who grew up in a family that loved the guy. He has helped a lot of people to grow in Christ and to know that we serve a living God, not a dead, powerless God.
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 3:55:17 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1505
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Propitiation
You got that right, Soxfan. The tulsa/broken arrow area is an infested wof breeding ground equivalent to a mosquitoes breeding ground.
Wow.....do we wonder why the world thinks what it does about us?
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 4:48:58 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4968
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: Propitiation
You got that right, Soxfan. The tulsa/broken arrow area is an infested wof breeding ground equivalent to a mosquitoes breeding ground.
Wow.....do we wonder why the world thinks what it does about us?
Yes, and that is LARGELY because of the Word of Faith bozos on TV. Tune into Comedy Central and MTV, the ones they use to blanket Christians are those folk.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 6:16:38 PM
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map4
Posts: 80
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
A lot of empty rhetoric from both sides of the fence and yet no one who claims Hagin's teachings are biblical has come in to show us how with the Bible.
It's all (both sides) in the WOF one-stop thread. No need for either side to hash it out agian, IMO.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 6:25:34 PM
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Propitiation
Posts: 41
Joined: 6/18/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BlackCapnHarlock
quote:
ORIGINAL: Propitiation
You got that right, Soxfan. The tulsa/broken arrow area is an infested wof breeding ground equivalent to a mosquitoes breeding ground.
NO, NO, NO, NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO'
This is the worst statement I have EVER SEEN on this website!!!!!
You are comparing fellow CHRISTIANS TO SKEETERS!!!!!! (mosquitoes for you non South Easterners). HOW RUDE!!! I'm sorry but this is way rude and adds nothing to the debate nor discussion.
There are many good yet MISGUIDED Christians in what is called thee WORD OF FAITH, movement, don't insult your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ by comparing them to pests.
I disagree with the WORD OF FAITH doctrine, thee Catholic doctrine, the Southern Baptist doctrine, the Orthodox doctrine thee, Charsimatic/Pentecostal doctrines, the Methodist doctrines, etc. .. TEHRE ARE BIBLICAL FLAWS in almost all of the 30,000+ denominations of Christians on this planet.
However the moments I call Catholics or Orthodox or Baptists mosquitoes is the moment that I need to remember what CHRIST doctrine truly is.
When did I say anything about them being pests? I have friends who I still keep in contact with that are word of faith. I don't call them pests. I was using it as an example of how like minded wof churches have popped up all over the place in Tulsa. Same can be said about southern baptists in the south. When I was in the wof movement I wasn't misguided, I was deceived.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 6:45:58 PM
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Propitiation
Posts: 41
Joined: 6/18/2007
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2 Cor 11:4 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Once again....what Jesus is Hagin preaching?
"Why did He need to be begotten or born? Because He became like we were - separated from God. Because He tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death. Jesus is the first person that was ever born again. Why did His spirit need to be born again? Because it was estranged from God." (Kenneth Hagin, "How Jesus obtained His Name"
Tape #44-H01
Does that sound familiar to another cults teachings? Lets see what the Jehovah witnesses have to say about Jesus being born again.
Did Jesus need to be born again?
Did Jesus need to be born again? The Watchtower's answer is "yes". They say that it was necessary for Jesus to be born again in order to become a spiritual son of God.
The Scriptures teaches that our sin was imputed to Christ (Isa. 53:4,5) and His righteousness was imputed to us (2 Cor. 5:21). In this sense we have true identification. The redemptive work was done on the cross, not in hell.
Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
1 Peter 2:24
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Col. 1:22
yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--
Col. 2:15
When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
< Message edited by Propitiation -- 3/28/2008 7:04:51 PM >
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 7:56:22 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1505
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: Propitiation
You got that right, Soxfan. The tulsa/broken arrow area is an infested wof breeding ground equivalent to a mosquitoes breeding ground.
Wow.....do we wonder why the world thinks what it does about us?
Yes, and that is LARGELY because of the Word of Faith bozos on TV. Tune into Comedy Central and MTV, the ones they use to blanket Christians are those folk.
I'm am ever amazed, earthless, when I read the way you speak about people and yet you say you've been a pastor for 20 years? I've never heard any pastor call people names the way you do and mock others the way you do those you disagree with.
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 8:06:59 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1505
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Propitiation
2 Cor 11:4 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Once again....what Jesus is Hagin preaching?
"Why did He need to be begotten or born? Because He became like we were - separated from God. Because He tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death. Jesus is the first person that was ever born again. Why did His spirit need to be born again? Because it was estranged from God." (Kenneth Hagin, "How Jesus obtained His Name"
Tape #44-H01
Does that sound familiar to another cults teachings? Lets see what the Jehovah witnesses have to say about Jesus being born again.
Did Jesus need to be born again?
Did Jesus need to be born again? The Watchtower's answer is "yes". They say that it was necessary for Jesus to be born again in order to become a spiritual son of God.
The Scriptures teaches that our sin was imputed to Christ (Isa. 53:4,5) and His righteousness was imputed to us (2 Cor. 5:21). In this sense we have true identification. The redemptive work was done on the cross, not in hell.
Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
1 Peter 2:24
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Col. 1:22
yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--
Col. 2:15
When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
Except that his death lasted 3 days. It includes the moment he died on the cross and extended into the days before he resurrected. That was ALL his death and it was All part of what he suffered and you can't separate those days.
So whatever a man suffers who dies full of sin and separated from God, then Jesus would have suffered that exact same thing in our place.
Scripture does not say that at the moment that his physical body died on the cross Jesus was immediately transported to a bed of daisies to await his resurrection. Nope. Jesus was made sin for that entire 3 days, from the cross to the resurrection and thus in EVERY respect he would have suffered all the punishment that rebellious man suffers when he dies separated from God because of sin.
Yes, Jesus made a public display of demonic powers, but not until that moment of His resurrection when He left the world of the dead (or hell or hades or whatever you choose to call the place that people full of sin and rebellion who are separated from God go)
None of the verses that you gave prove that Kenneth Hagin's teachings in that area are wrong because Hagin believes that Jesus' death is what made us righteous.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 3/29/2008 5:57:55 PM >
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 8:40:17 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4968
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: Propitiation
You got that right, Soxfan. The tulsa/broken arrow area is an infested wof breeding ground equivalent to a mosquitoes breeding ground.
Wow.....do we wonder why the world thinks what it does about us?
Yes, and that is LARGELY because of the Word of Faith bozos on TV. Tune into Comedy Central and MTV, the ones they use to blanket Christians are those folk.
I'm am ever amazed, earthless, when I read the way you speak about people and yet you say you've been a pastor for 20 years? I've never heard any pastor call people names the way you do and mock others the way you do those you disagree with.
15 years, not 20.
You have never heard & seen Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul Crouch literally wish death and cursings upon those they hate? Even when scores of video and audio PROOF has been posted over and over again?
But you're right.. calling wolves in sheeps clothing "bozos" is the epitome of amazement...
I guess your Bible is also missing Jesus calling the same ilk of His earthly time, brood of vipers, white washed tombs, walking dead men. SD, do not blind yourself to the PROOF that is out there about those you day in and day out defend.
God will hold us both accountable for the nonsense we both do. But man, what more proof do you really need?!
< Message edited by earthless -- 3/28/2008 8:46:29 PM >
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/28/2008 9:01:45 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 2947
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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I have all of Hagin, Sr. books and I have most of E.W. Kenyon's books.
They are boxed up collecting dust and slime from slugs.
Got them for sale mighty cheap. lol.
I recommend that people read their Bibles so they can recognize the falsehoods.
If we're daily in those circles we can't see it, but once you step outside and look
back in you wonder, "What was I thinking?!" LOL.
Judging "doctrines" aren't the same as judging people.
I live under an hour from Rhema and ORU.
I sent my oldest son to Rhema and he had the good sense to "run for his life." LOL.
Wake up folks, we're in the time of "lawlessness." Which is actually "Torah-less-ness."
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/29/2008 12:48:43 AM
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rlj
Posts: 1708
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
I guess your Bible is also missing Jesus calling the same ilk of His earthly time, brood of vipers, white washed tombs, walking dead men. SD, do not blind yourself to the PROOF that is out there about those you day in and day out defend.
God will hold us both accountable for the nonsense we both do. But man, what more proof do you really need?!
Earthless you can be 100% right about something and make yourself 100% wrong by the way you go about stating it. Would you respect SD more if she went to a church where they got drunk, celebrated incest and embarrassed each other by dragging each other to court all the time? I guess the Apostle Paul had it all wrong when he didn't carry on as you said he should do didn't he? He was wrong in Phillippians by not freaking out and going off on those who were spreading the gospel for no other reason to make money off of it. The Apostle John had it wrong when he delivered the letters to the 7 churches instead of going to them spewing forth hellfire and brimstone. Phillippians, 1 and 2 Corinthians and Revelation are in the bible right?
The truth is there are many born again christians who like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin etc. Some I even respect. All I have learned to look at as better than me and I try to humble myself and submit myself in love to them. I find that as I grow in Christ I find it easier to love and respect people especially christians even though we disagree on many things. You need to accept that people aren't going to agree with you and arguing that isn't going to change that.
When I think of the doctrine of a Hagin type it saddens me because I've seen people hurt from it. I've seen people who have lost loved ones have their faith doubted. I've seen people who are sick and in pain throw away their medicine only to have to buy it again. I witnessed someone who cleaned out his bank savings to give to one of these men. I've had people who ask me about my hearing and sometimes wonder if I think I have a faith problem. I tell them I'm guaranteed a new set of ears in the next life and if Jesus wants to fix them now it's his privilege to do so. ;) I don't worry about that because I love being around God's people and if some like people I disagree with there's nothing I can do about it. I do occasionally speak up but never arguing if something comes up (like my hearing) I just answer with the humble truth.
Good night all. ; )
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/29/2008 2:40:51 AM
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SD456
Posts: 1505
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
I don't worry about that because I love being around God's people and if some like people I disagree with there's nothing I can do about it. I do occasionally speak up but never arguing if something comes up (like my hearing) I just answer with the humble truth.
Thank you. I have one friend in particular who very much believes a certain way differently than I. We have learned to love each other and not argue about the things we disagree on because we both follow Jesus.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/29/2008 6:35:09 AM
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Propitiation
Posts: 41
Joined: 6/18/2007
Status: offline
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SD456. Do you line up with hagin and believe that Jesus had to be born again spiritually? IF so, please support scripture to back up your claim. Thanks. God bless
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/29/2008 11:04:54 AM
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earthless
Posts: 4968
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
I guess your Bible is also missing Jesus calling the same ilk of His earthly time, brood of vipers, white washed tombs, walking dead men. SD, do not blind yourself to the PROOF that is out there about those you day in and day out defend.
God will hold us both accountable for the nonsense we both do. But man, what more proof do you really need?!
Earthless you can be 100% right about something and make yourself 100% wrong by the way you go about stating it. Would you respect SD more if she went to a church where they got drunk, celebrated incest and embarrassed each other by dragging each other to court all the time? I guess the Apostle Paul had it all wrong when he didn't carry on as you said he should do didn't he? He was wrong in Phillippians by not freaking out and going off on those who were spreading the gospel for no other reason to make money off of it. The Apostle John had it wrong when he delivered the letters to the 7 churches instead of going to them spewing forth hellfire and brimstone. Phillippians, 1 and 2 Corinthians and Revelation are in the bible right?
The truth is there are many born again christians who like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin etc. Some I even respect. All I have learned to look at as better than me and I try to humble myself and submit myself in love to them. I find that as I grow in Christ I find it easier to love and respect people especially christians even though we disagree on many things. You need to accept that people aren't going to agree with you and arguing that isn't going to change that.
When I think of the doctrine of a Hagin type it saddens me because I've seen people hurt from it. I've seen people who have lost loved ones have their faith doubted. I've seen people who are sick and in pain throw away their medicine only to have to buy it again. I witnessed someone who cleaned out his bank savings to give to one of these men. I've had people who ask me about my hearing and sometimes wonder if I think I have a faith problem. I tell them I'm guaranteed a new set of ears in the next life and if Jesus wants to fix them now it's his privilege to do so. ;) I don't worry about that because I love being around God's people and if some like people I disagree with there's nothing I can do about it. I do occasionally speak up but never arguing if something comes up (like my hearing) I just answer with the humble truth.
Good night all. ; )
I've been told I have the style of Peter, blunt and to the point. Which when one considers my career, it makes sense.
Yet my reply has a valid point and I doubt it will be responded to.
< Message edited by earthless -- 3/29/2008 11:17:43 AM >
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/29/2008 1:38:44 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2203
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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quote:
Good post, thank you. There are good things to be gleaned and things to set aside in every teacher and preacher.
So, Jim Jones was a good teacher? So, David Korusch was agood teacher? So, Mary Baker Eddie was a good teacher? Just because someone can quote a biible verse doesn't make him/her a good teacher.
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The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/29/2008 2:14:15 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1708
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
So, Jim Jones was a good teacher? So, David Korusch was agood teacher? So, Mary Baker Eddie was a good teacher? Just because someone can quote a biible verse doesn't make him/her a good teacher.
The quote was that there good things to be set aside in every preacher and teacher not that those teachers and preachers were good. Jim Jones was far ahead of his time in his treatment of minorities. That doesn't make him a good teacher or leader but it is something that was a positive about him.
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-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/29/2008 4:54:20 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1505
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Propitiation
SD456. Do you line up with hagin and believe that Jesus had to be born again spiritually? IF so, please support scripture to back up your claim. Thanks. God bless
I've never said I believe everything he says is without error. But the verses that you used earlier have nothing to do with Hagin's belief that Jesus's death was required for our salvation.
And if Jesus was made 'in every respect' like a man, as scripture says. do you believe it means exactly that, in 'every respect'? And if you say, "yes, in every respect except this one." Then what would be the 'one respect' in which Jesus wasn't made like us and do you have scripture that can back that up?
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