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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 3:21:28 AM
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Sammy_S
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SD456quote:
Good post, thank you. There are good things to be gleaned and things to set aside in every teacher and preacher.
I don't even see the point of my comments towards you since it seems to me that you rather defend men(false preachers to be exact) than the very word of God.It's clear that in acccepting that he is a false teacher it would mean that your theology is not orthodox christianity.That quote above with all due respect literally makes me sick.I can find some very good things from muslim theology but it sure as my toe isnt the Word of God.
quote:
He has helped a lot of people to grow in Christ and to know that we serve a living God, not a dead, powerless God.
Tell that to the poor/persucated christians around the world who by his theology are not blessed by the Lord because they lack health,wealth.This breaks my heart and I have soo much anger towards this Blasphemy,This is not the Gospel that Paul died for,this is not the Gospel that the "70 million" christian martyrs died for.How dare a person tell me that to warn people of this lie is wrong when it is the truth that set a man free?
< Message edited by Sammy_S -- 3/30/2008 3:57:57 AM >
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 3:35:13 AM
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Sammy_S
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SD456
quote:
So whatever a man suffers who dies full of sin and separated from God, then Jesus would have suffered that exact same thing in our place.
Scripture does not say that at the moment that his physical body died on the cross Jesus was immediately transported to a bed of daisies to await his resurrection. Nope. Jesus was made sin for that entire 3 days, from the cross to the resurrection and thus in EVERY respect he would have suffered all the punishment that rebellious man suffers when he dies separated from God because of sin.
If Christ was punished again in hell then no one is saved and we are all going to hell without a doubt in my mind.By your false doctrine,Christ lied when he said it was finished and the cross alone was not sufficient.If Christ was punished in hell Paul would have made that very clear and would not boast about the Cross alone but also the false doctrine of him b eing punished in hell.
That is not historical Christianity and it is not even close.This is heresy and it hurts me deep inside that people believe in this lie.Look up Chruch doctrine from the early church and I guarantee that you will never ever see it anywhere.One must be right and the other has to be false,Since you believe that you are correct then the early church were preaching a false doctrine.
It also doesnt help that this doctrine crept into "christianity"(I use the term very loosely) in what we call the "Last days' since Paul warned us about the false doctrine that be tought.The WOF doctrine is clearly a big part of what Paul was writing.
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth2 Tim 3:1-7 (KJV)
< Message edited by Sammy_S -- 3/30/2008 3:55:17 AM >
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 3:39:35 AM
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Sammy_S
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SD456quote:
Have you ever read through the Psalms and read the countless times that David wishes God to not only annihilate his enemies, but also kill all their children, make them die poor, make them suffer terrible humiliation, make them fall into pits, etc etc. There's hundreds of verses like that.
It's nothing new for one of God's followers to wish the worst for those they see as enemies. Not necessarily the way I would go about it, but there's nothing new in it. David did this and yet God loved him and called him a man after his own heart. Go figure
Wow,Hey lets forget "Love your Enemies/neighbours" why don't we?
quote:
Absolutely true! Just as Hagin is a human, flawed just like us. Thank you.
And who knows but that they have done the same thing as David, spoke the words but then believed God would dole out the justice....
Are you kidding me?We are all wretches but that doesnt mean that we should be biblically off.
rljquote:
It is mentioned that Barnabas got caught up with Peter. I mentioned Peter because at this time it was known that circumsision had nothing to do with Salvation so he was living a false doctrine. He also led other Christians to do this or at least he forced gentiles to follow the Jewish customs.
Except for the fact that Peter recognized that he was wrong and repented fro mit just like he repented fro denying Christ.These false teachers refuse to repent and they will meet their reward in an appointed time.
< Message edited by Sammy_S -- 3/30/2008 3:54:05 AM >
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 8:46:07 AM
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rlj
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quote:
Except for the fact that Peter recognized that he was wrong and repented fro mit just like he repented fro denying Christ.These false teachers refuse to repent and they will meet their reward in an appointed time.
Paul called him on it and confronted him with it, he accepted what was said then repented. Peter didn't just "realize" this he was confronted with it. That is so very important Sammy. The biggest problem facing the church is lack of accountability. This is especially true and important with us charismatics. I keep hearing a steady stream of "so and so prophesied this and it didn't come true AGAIN' and that is probably true. So why is this person prophesying and why aren't they being held accountable? Too often it is because this person is a "leader" and many were never taught to discern the things that are being said or know that you should. I don't have enough time to go into this more right now time to get ready to go.
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1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 3:04:28 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
Why do you not lay it down at the cross and allow Jesus to deal out justice the way that He sees fit
Because I would be disobeying God's Word in doing so.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
and allow Jesus to be the one to separate the sheep from the goats?
No, please don't misunderstand me. I am not saying who is born-again and who is not. But if a teaching is indeed heretical, than it is what it is. We, as believers, shouldn't have a problem calling black black and white white.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I guess i don't understand you the same way. No one is forced to give anyone money, every pastor has preached something or done something that has hurt somebody somewhere.
No, not every pastor has and continues to preach heresy on primal doctrines.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
Do you know if Hagin is in hell right now? If you don't know this, then you don't know if he was a heretic teaching heresies. Because heretics are consigned to hell. If you are not certain, then why keep implyng that he is? You really don't know.
No, I do not know if he is in hell or with the Lord. But I do know that many of his teachings were outright lies and twists of the Word of God. Stop disobeying God's Word in His command to you to not remain silent about it when it happens.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 5:53:50 PM
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SD456
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quote:
it would mean that your theology is not orthodox christianity
Really? Hmmm, I wonder what Jesus thinks about me. And do you know my theology?
It does prove to be quite impossible to have a mature, civil conversation with people who get so full of angst and anger when people don't see things the way they do.
I am working 60 hours a week right now and don't have the energy to even read all the negativity in this type of thread.
For earthless' sake I thought I'd try it, but it turns out to be exactly what I always said it would be. You're not interested in truly looking into someone's doctrine, you're only interested in having everyone say, "yes, he's a heretic!!
< Message edited by SD456 -- 3/30/2008 6:08:05 PM >
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 6:02:38 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
SD456
quote:
So whatever a man suffers who dies full of sin and separated from God, then Jesus would have suffered that exact same thing in our place.
Scripture does not say that at the moment that his physical body died on the cross Jesus was immediately transported to a bed of daisies to await his resurrection. Nope. Jesus was made sin for that entire 3 days, from the cross to the resurrection and thus in EVERY respect he would have suffered all the punishment that rebellious man suffers when he dies separated from God because of sin.
If Christ was punished again in hell then no one is saved and we are all going to hell without a doubt in my mind.By your false doctrine,Christ lied when he said it was finished and the cross alone was not sufficient.If Christ was punished in hell Paul would have made that very clear and would not boast about the Cross alone but also the false doctrine of him b eing punished in hell.
That is not historical Christianity and it is not even close.This is heresy and it hurts me deep inside that people believe in this lie.Look up Chruch doctrine from the early church and I guarantee that you will never ever see it anywhere.One must be right and the other has to be false,Since you believe that you are correct then the early church were preaching a false doctrine.
It also doesnt help that this doctrine crept into "christianity"(I use the term very loosely) in what we call the "Last days' since Paul warned us about the false doctrine that be tought.The WOF doctrine is clearly a big part of what Paul was writing.
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth2 Tim 3:1-7 (KJV)
Paul says Jesus died and resurrected on the third day. What part of his being dead during those 3 days are you wanting to change?
And what do you think happens to someone who dies full of sin, as Jesus died who became sin for us?
I see no false teaching in that. The bible does not say that He died and 3 seconds later came back to life and was waiting to be pulled up out of hades or wherever. It says he was dead and buried for 3 days. Since the bible doesn't tell us that his time during death was any different than some other person's time during death when they are full of sin and separated from God because of that sin, then I don't see why we should assume that it was.
I didn't use the term punishment, you used that term. I simply said that whatever happens to a man that is full of sin who dies separated from God, then that is what happened to Jesus. You can come to whatever conclusions you wish about that.
He said 'it is finished' because He was about to die. Not because at that very second everything was accomplished, especially since somes things were not going to be accomplished for our benefit until he resurrected 3 days later. His struggle was finished, His death was upon Him, He did it - He was obedient and didn't back out even to death - and our sins had been placed upon Him, all those things were finished. But 3 days later His resurrection was still needed to put all principalities and powers beneath His feet in His triumphal return.
Keep a grip now and quit getting so angry. It's very tiring to talk to angry people and I'm almost done with this thread. Boy I couldn't last more than a few posts either. Adam (FurGod) was right in warning me about these types of threads.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 3/30/2008 6:14:57 PM >
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 8:03:36 PM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I see no false teaching in that. The bible does not say that He died and 3 seconds later came back to life and was waiting to be pulled up out of hades or wherever. It says he was dead and buried for 3 days. Since the bible doesn't tell us that his time during death was any different than some other person's time during death when they are full of sin and separated from God because of that sin, then I don't see why we should assume that it was.
Interesting...If I recall, Jesus said to the thief "TODAY, you will be with me in Paradise"
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 10:30:10 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I see no false teaching in that. The bible does not say that He died and 3 seconds later came back to life and was waiting to be pulled up out of hades or wherever. It says he was dead and buried for 3 days. Since the bible doesn't tell us that his time during death was any different than some other person's time during death when they are full of sin and separated from God because of that sin, then I don't see why we should assume that it was.
Interesting...If I recall, Jesus said to the thief "TODAY, you will be with me in Paradise"
There is much debate as to what he meant to the thief when he said that. Jesus didn't resurrect for 3 days, so I would think He wouldn't have gone to paradise until he was resurrected from the dead. Scripture says he went under the earth first and took a train of captives with him (which would have been when he resurrected 3 days later).
But your point is taken.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 11:25:25 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
He said 'it is finished' because He was about to die
Wrong! The term he used was to signify all of sin's debt was satisfied. Paid in fulll
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 11:28:17 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Keep a grip now and quit getting so angry. It's very tiring to talk to angry people and I'm almost done with this thread. Boy I couldn't last more than a few posts either. Adam (FurGod) was right in warning me about these types of threads.
We are far from angry people. We are asking you for exegetical support of your beliefs. All you see able to supply is esegisis.
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The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 11:29:21 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
He said 'it is finished' because He was about to die
Wrong! The term he used was to signify all of sin's debt was satisfied. Paid in fulll
Yes, that too. He took our sins upon himself and they were nailed to the cross with Him, which is also what I had said earlier.
But he still was dead for 3 days before He resurrected.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 11:32:08 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
He said 'it is finished' because He was about to die
Wrong! The term he used was to signify all of sin's debt was satisfied. Paid in fulll
ROFL! I swear sometimes I'm talking to High school kids. -- Wrong!
I can just see you jumping off your chair, your face in a moment of glee where you believe you've got me...I'm trapped....you have been proved right....
When all along you simply misinterpret so many things I say or you add to them and change their meaning.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/30/2008 11:35:07 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
When all along you simply misinterpret so many things I say or you add to them and change their meaning.
Sigh. We do not misinterprest what you post. We just challenge you to defend your posts from an exegisis of scripture. All you seem all to supply are your emotions (esegisis).
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The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/31/2008 1:28:27 AM
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Sammy_S
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quote:
Paul called him on it and confronted him with it, he accepted what was said then repented. Peter didn't just "realize" this he was confronted with it. That is so very important Sammy. The biggest problem facing the church is lack of accountability. This is especially true and important with us charismatics. I keep hearing a steady stream of "so and so prophesied this and it didn't come true AGAIN' and that is probably true. So why is this person prophesying and why aren't they being held accountable? Too often it is because this person is a "leader" and many were never taught to discern the things that are being said or know that you should. I don't have enough time to go into this more right now time to get ready to go
I agree with you,that is what scripture says so I agree ofcourse.I should have explained it better.But my point was that after being confronted he agred that he was wrong and repented,that is something many false teachers ignore to do.BTW,do you think that if Peter had not repented that Paul would have said,"hey I strongly disagree with him on something that is very important to the faith but nonetheless please go ahead and listen to him"??No way,he would call him out and advise his readers to have nothing to do with his teachings like he did to the others.
I am to flee from sinand I am to teach others to do the same.i am also to flee from false teachers and I am aslo to teach others to do the same.
I agree that some may go about it in a wrong manner and i am not too pleased with that as a fellow brother but most of the posters on this board are not like that.
< Message edited by Sammy_S -- 3/31/2008 2:07:25 AM >
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/31/2008 1:37:27 AM
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Sammy_S
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SD456quote:
Really? Hmmm, I wonder what Jesus thinks about me. And do you know my theology? It does prove to be quite impossible to have a mature, civil conversation with people who get so full of angst and anger when people don't see things the way they do.
I am working 60 hours a week right now and don't have the energy to even read all the negativity in this type of thread.
For earthless' sake I thought I'd try it, but it turns out to be exactly what I always said it would be. You're not interested in truly looking into someone's doctrine, you're only interested in having everyone say, "yes, he's a heretic!!
About your theology,I am only commenting on what you state in this thread.Secondly,I could care less if people disagree with me,But i do care when self professing christians believe in a doctrine that's not biblcal.Do you think that I love calling someone a Heretic?It deeply saddens me but I am equally full of anger towards false teaching.
I am a wretched sinner,I need all the truth I can get.My soul is in desire for truth because that is what will sanctify me.So please understand why I don't take heresy lightly,especially when Christ and Paul didnt.
Also,I am very interested in other people's doctrine,If that were not so I would not see the lies in their doctrine.I do not have a doctrine SD,I only believe in what the bible says.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/31/2008 1:56:51 AM
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Sammy_S
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SD456
quote:
Paul says Jesus died and resurrected on the third day. What part of his being dead during those 3 days are you wanting to change?
What are you talking about?Christ died and rose again in 3 days but that does not mean that he was being tormented in hell.He was in paradise.
quote:
And what do you think happens to someone who dies full of sin, as Jesus died who became sin for us?
They go to hell,but the clear difference that you fail to see is that the cross was the punishment in full.Are you claiming that God was not satisfied in the sacrifice of his Son on the cross?Christ lied when he said it was finished?Demons who were in great fear when they met him were able to torture him in hell?This is not Orthodox Christianity,It's either your right and the Early Church fathers are right or vice visa.
quote:
I see no false teaching in that. The bible does not say that He died and 3 seconds later came back to life and was waiting to be pulled up out of hades or wherever. It says he was dead and buried for 3 days. Since the bible doesn't tell us that his time during death was any different than some other person's time during death when they are full of sin and separated from God because of that sin, then I don't see why we should assume that it was.
This is just shocking to me,forgive me but I am in awe that a self-prophesed christian can write this.As someone m,entioned earlier Christ clearly told the criminal on the cross thathe would be with him on paradise that day.Also,why would the death of Christ as a bearer of sin for sinners be any different than sinners?I don't know SD but maybe it's because Christ is God and that he had satisfied the wrath of God!
Colliefan
quote:
Sigh. We do not misinterprest what you post. We just challenge you to defend your posts from an exegisis of scripture. All you seem all to supply are your emotions (esegisis).
I definately agree with that.One will deny scripture and embrace man made beliefs based on that.I am not trying to hurt you or critisize you SD but I just hope that you will embrace the truth of God's word.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/31/2008 2:19:46 AM
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Corne
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WOF did not introduce the idea that Jesus descended into hell. That statement has been in creeds since before 500AD, including the apostles creed.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/31/2008 2:37:24 AM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
I definately agree with that.One will deny scripture and embrace man made beliefs based on that.I am not trying to hurt you or critisize you SD but I just hope that you will embrace the truth of God's word.
I agree with you Sammy. *L* I was being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative because you guys seem to thrive on argument.
Scripture says that our sins were nailed to the cross with Jesus, it does not say that he carried them with Him after His death. It does not say what happened during those entire 3 days except that at some point He went down to hades to preach the gospel and carry captives away.
Scripture does not say that Jesus was tormented by demons. If Jesus had the power to cast out demons and make them flee while on earth, then He more than likely would have had the same power after death. But He did not receive back His full power until His resurrection. If He did not have His full power of divinity back until His resurrection, then He would not have had it when He went down into hell or hades to preach the gospel. He would have preached the gospel to the dead in the same representation as He had to people on earth during His life. That would mean that those dead would have seen Jesus just like the Pharisees on earth had seen Him and they would have had to accept Him or reject Him on the same grounds as the Pharisees had to reject Him or accept Him.
Since the Pharisees did not believe that the true Messiah was going to come in the poor state that Jesus came, they believed that the Messiah was going to come as a powerful king, then there are many souls in the underworld who probably would have rejected Jesus for the exact same reason that the Pharisees rejected Him - He didn't look like the type of Messiah that they believed a Messiah should be.
Yet, even with all that, I would never call someone a heretic. I understand your passion for the truth, but when passion begins to turn to hatred and disdain for those you think are enemies, then I think there is a problem. That kind of attitude is not edifying to the body of Christ nor does it accomplish the work of God.
Hagin is responsible for bringing many souls into the kingdom over his lifetime. If a child of God begins to turn to error in their later years, as king solomon did, I don't believe that God writes off their lives. And if Hagin is in heaven right now, which I believe He is because he believed in Jesus Christ for his salvation, then his errors were not errors that lead a soul to hell.
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/31/2008 2:48:28 AM
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Sammy_S
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
WOF did not introduce the idea that Jesus descended into hell. That statement has been in creeds since before 500AD, including the apostles creed.
Apostles’ Creed
1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the Holy Catholic Church: the Communion of Saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
11. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.
—Early Creeds, The
The word used as hell is hades in Greek and heres what Vines Dictrionary says:
Hades:
"the region of departed spirits of the lost" (but including the blessed dead in periods preceding the ascension of Christ)
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Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/31/2008 3:04:05 AM
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Corne
Posts: 1206
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And what is your point? The concept of Jesus' descention is old.
from the greek lexicon:
name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
later use of this word: the grave, death, hell
< Message edited by Corne -- 3/31/2008 3:11:11 AM >
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/31/2008 3:06:19 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
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ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
I definately agree with that.One will deny scripture and embrace man made beliefs based on that.I am not trying to hurt you or critisize you SD but I just hope that you will embrace the truth of God's word.
I agree with you Sammy. *L* I was being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative because you guys seem to thrive on argument.
Scripture says that our sins were nailed to the cross with Jesus, it does not say that he carried them with Him after His death. It does not say what happened during those entire 3 days except that at some point He went down to hades to preach the gospel and carry captives away.
Then since he was no longer a bearer of the sins of sinners because of the fact that our sins were nailed to the cross then why would he go to hell and suffer there as well as the WOF preaches?
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Scripture does not say that Jesus was tormented by demons. If Jesus had the power to cast out demons and make them flee while on earth, then He more than likely would have had the same power after death. But He did not receive back His full power until His resurrection. If He did not have His full power of divinity back until His resurrection, then He would not have had it when He went down into hell or hades to preach the gospel.
Where is that in the bible?How can God not have his "full" power?If he doesnt have his power then he is not God.
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He would have preached the gospel to the dead in the same representation as He had to people on earth during His life. That would mean that those dead would have seen Jesus just like the Pharisees on earth had seen Him and they would have had to accept Him or reject Him on the same grounds as the Pharisees had to reject Him or accept Him.
No,First of all,his preaching was not to save but to teach.Those whom he preached to were the old saints.They are already saved,why would would they need to "accept" him again?And as i mentioned above,he had all his powers,If he didnt he was not God.
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Since the Pharisees did not believe that the true Messiah was going to come in the poor state that Jesus came, they believed that the Messiah was going to come as a powerful king, then there are many souls in the underworld who probably would have rejected Jesus for the exact same reason that the Pharisees rejected Him - He didn't look like the type of Messiah that they believed a Messiah should be.
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Yet, even with all that, I would never call someone a heretic. I understand your passion for the truth, but when passion begins to turn to hatred and disdain for those you think are enemies, then I think there is a problem. That kind of attitude is not edifying to the body of Christ nor does it accomplish the work of God.
It's not wrong to call one a heretic if he is.Paul did that,was he wrong?
BTW,i do not hate them at all,I hate what they preach.The wrath of God is upon them not mine.And I do not consider themselves as an enemy of mine,my enemies are Satan and my flesh I do not need more enemies.But if they do not repent of their false teachings they are enemies of God and that is far worse then a child like myself complaining about their teachings.
This is not about who is right or wrong,it's about the truth in God's word
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Hagin is responsible for bringing many souls into the kingdom over his lifetime. If a child of God begins to turn to error in their later years, as king solomon did, I don't believe that God writes off their lives. And if Hagin is in heaven right now, which I believe He is because he believed in Jesus Christ for his salvation, then his errors were not errors that lead a soul to hell.
How do you know so?Should you not leave that to God?Secondly,Just because one "believes" in Jesus Christ as his salvation does not mean that lived his life according to that "belief".
I always "believed" in Christ as my salvation but my heart was far from him and I was awaiting his wrath had he not saved me.
< Message edited by Sammy_S -- 3/31/2008 3:15:13 AM >
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 3/31/2008 3:13:16 AM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 475
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
And what is your point? The concept of Jesus' descention is old.
Ofcourse,That is probobly why it's true.(I speak of the originalhades,Not hell if you meant hell)
It's always been Hades and not hell until someone forgot to study the meaning of the word.
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from the greek lexicon:
name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
later use of this word: the grave, death, hell
You forgot the part where it says in your post:later use of this word: the grave, death,hell.
Prior to that it said "the realm of the dead"
Funny how you miss that.
< Message edited by Sammy_S -- 3/31/2008 3:21:18 AM >
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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