|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/19/2008 12:51:16 PM
|
|
|
groovymovieman
Posts: 182
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
|
I saw it and LOVED IT! LOVED IT! LOVED IT! It goes right for the jugular on the censorship regarding intelligent design in the scientific community. It is fantastic! And I dig seeing all the critic reviews coming out against it. These same critics worshipped "An Inconvenient Truth" and "Fahrenheit 9/11." By coming against they movie they are actually proving the very points in the movie about the censorship taking place. Don't believe the lies! This move IS intelligent! People are all bent about it because it exposes their idiocy!
_____________________________
To a pharisee, "Truth is more important than love."
To the spiritually healthy, "Love is the most important part of truth."
www.familyroommedia.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/19/2008 1:57:29 PM
|
|
|
ManimalX
Posts: 587
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
|
I just saw this last night and have to say that it is a phenomenal film. This is probably one of the most moving and important films of our time. You can just feel the spirit of anti-Christ oozing out of the screen every time one of the Evolutionists speaks.
Aside from the content being dealt with, the movie was visually a pleasure to watch and audibly a pleasure to listen to. The brief flashes to old black-and-white movies was at many times hilarious, and the visuals of the Berlin wall all through the movie were very powerful. The cinematography was excellent and film locations beautifully selected. The music was awesome, too. When I saw in the opening credits that Andy Hunter had arranged the music, I knew I would be in for a treat. From the opening string quartet playing "All Along the Watchtower" to the extremely moving score playing as Ben visited the Nazi death camps, to Johnny Cash singing "My Own Personal Jesus", I was audibly pleased the entire film.
This film is well worth the time and the money, both for those like me who have been following the ID/Evolution controversy very closely for some time, and those who have never really engaged the subject.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/19/2008 2:32:35 PM
|
|
|
TomTurn
Posts: 650
Joined: 3/13/2008
Status: online
|
For the most part the no God side in this debate take the same path of Al Bore on global warming. When questioned all they do is scream the debate is over!
I took part in a debate on evolution vs. creation where each of those in the audience could challenge one side or the other. I asked of the no God representative, "if modern human, the people we are today, showed up in the evolution process some 200,000 years ago. One can only assume that if we have not changed since then, those over the past 200,000 years have had the same evolved brain. And if so why did we go some 195,000 years pass before we even reached a point of something as simple as a written language"?
His response 'there is no God"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/19/2008 2:41:16 PM
|
|
|
tacitus
Posts: 554
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: selahgirl
Definitely going to see EXPELLED in theatres!!! The teens and college peeps I know love Ben Stein, so I'll likely have lots of company.
I saw an interview with him on FOX NEWS today about the movie.
It was followed by an interview about the pope's visit to the US and some statistics of the interest of this generation concerning a commitment/passion about God. I agree. I have seen a spiritual void as the govt has allowed special interest groups to strip our society of its Christian heritage and freedoms, and I have seen a generation come of age that is more focused about protecting that Godly heritage than mine was.
I think this movie was ordained by God and will open alot of eyes concerning many things.
Ironically my husband just gave me a new worship cd that we subscribe to and the title is WAKE UP! I am so proud of this generation for answering the call, and I'm so glad that my generation is partnering with people like Ben Stein who have determined to at least put the Truth out there. I have no doubt that if we put it out there, teens and college peeps will search it out with tremendous integrity and character because I see them asking God about stuff for themselves. There's a sifting and a sorting going on.
My generation was taken by surprise by the assault on Truth, and the God of Truth.
But this generation is savvy and sharp and can do intellectual/spiritual battle like nothing I have ever seen. They are returning to the word of God with a passion and a zeal that has only been talked about in times past. Not taking the word of pastors and people, but weighing it all and asking God for themselves. They seem sick of being spoon fed spiritual junk food, and they are craving the meat of all that matters. They are truly anointed and raised up for such a time as this. I love this generation!
sorry, got a little carried away there....
You speak a lot about "Truth" and you say that you believe this movie was ordained by God, but did you know that the producers of this movie outright lied to the scientists to get their interviews for this movie?
Here is the letter one scientists received:
quote:
Hello Mr. Myers,
My name is Mark Mathis. I am a Producer for Rampant Films. We are currently in production of the documentary film, "Crossroads: The Intersection of Science and Religion."
At your convenience I would like to discuss our project with you and to see if we might be able to schedule an interview with you for the film. The interview would take no more than 90 minutes total, including set up and break down of our equipment.
We are interested in asking you a number of questions about the disconnect/controversy that exists in America between Evolution, Creationism and the Intelligent Design movement.
Please let me know what time would be convenient for me to reach you at your office. Also, could you please let me know if you charge a fee for interviews and if so, what that fee would be for 90 minutes of your time.
I look forward to speaking with you soon.
Sincerely,
Mark Mathis
Rampant Films
Mathis makes it sound like an interesting and reasonably balanced look at the issues surrounding the debate between evolution and ID, and he continued in that vein during the interviews without a hint that they were planning to do a hatchet job on their interviewees. Mathis has claimed that they changed their minds about the nature of the movie once they had the interviews in the can, but its clear that he was lying again...
First, over a month before these letters were sent out, Mathis' company registered six domains for "expelledthemovie.com" ".net" ".org", etc, even adding "expelledmovie.com" a couple of weeks later (and they never did register any other name for the movie). There was already no movie called "Crossroads" at that time. Second, Ben Stein has said in interviews that he knew long before the scientists were interviewed what the movie was really going to be about (i.e. way back at the end of 2006). In fact, that's why he agreed to sign up for the movie in the first place. The premise as sold to Stein -- exactly what you see in the movie, the supposed persecution of people who believe in ID by the scientific community. Thus, the inescapable conclusion is that Mathis and others involved in the movie deliberately lied to several people seen in the film including Myers and Dawkins).
Not exactly "Truthful" and God-ordained behavior, now was it? Somehow I doubt that God has given his seal of approval on this feckless venture.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/19/2008 3:04:58 PM
|
|
|
selahgirl
Posts: 1001
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
Status: offline
|
quote:
We are interested in asking you a number of questions about the disconnect/controversy that exists in America
sounds pretty straight forward to me as to the focus of the interview.
The interviews were the opinions of the atheists, made by themselves, from their own mouths, with many opportunities for them to express their viewpoint which they do in regular forums and lectures on a regular basis. It's not as though they were taken off guard by the questions presented by Ben Stein. The conversations were dialogues in which both sides were given ample room to not only state their position but to explain it.
With a history and a system so weighted on the side of Darwinism, I can see that it would seem an untruthful approach to actually hear an explanation of ID in it's entirety. I realize that it is scary ground for those in the atheistic camp to have someone actually express the scientific possibility of an Intelligence that designed life on earth. The norm in recent years has been for those holding the reins of academia to shut down such voices and silence them. I feel that your offense is not that something untruthful was committed, rather that voices once silenced are actually unafraid to speak the Truth -- and are being heard.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/19/2008 3:41:59 PM
|
|
|
iluvatar
Posts: 1275
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
I took part in a debate on evolution vs. creation where each of those in the audience could challenge one side or the other. I asked of the no God representative, "if modern human, the people we are today, showed up in the evolution process some 200,000 years ago. One can only assume that if we have not changed since then, those over the past 200,000 years have had the same evolved brain. And if so why did we go some 195,000 years pass before we even reached a point of something as simple as a written language"?
Your question makes two assumptions that I don't believe are true: 1.) modern evolutionary theory claims that we have not changed at all in the last 200K years and 2.) that technological development progresses in a linear fashion.
I'm not an expert on biology, but it's my understanding that scientists believe that at least some development (albeit minor) has occurred in that time frame. The bigger fault of this argument, though, deals with the progression of technology - it doesn't take much to look at the history of science and technology and realize that our technological capabilities grow exponentially. While human civilization has been around for ~10K years, it's only been in the last 100 years that we've gone from a couple bicycle repairmen flying an airplane for a hundred feet on a beach to launching sophisticated satellites into orbit and out of the solar system. In that same hundred years, we've progressed from seeing the atom as a philosophical construct to building particle accelerators several miles in length to study the physics of conditions possibly not seen since the beginning of the universe.
With that in mind, it shouldn't surprise anybody that we went most of our history w/o developing a written language.
-Dan.
_____________________________
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/19/2008 11:37:22 PM
|
|
|
humbleinspirit
Posts: 12450
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: By The Airport
Status: online
|
quote:
You speak a lot about "Truth" and you say that you believe this movie was ordained by God, but did you know that the producers of this movie outright lied to the scientists to get their interviews for this movie?
Source?
_____________________________
I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds the future.
I may listen to a thousand tongues but I only hear one whisper. -- First Call
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/20/2008 2:01:21 PM
|
|
|
groovymovieman
Posts: 182
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
sounds pretty straight forward to me as to the focus of the interview.
The interviews were the opinions of the atheists, made by themselves, from their own mouths, with many opportunities for them to express their viewpoint which they do in regular forums and lectures on a regular basis. It's not as though they were taken off guard by the questions presented by Ben Stein. The conversations were dialogues in which both sides were given ample room to not only state their position but to explain it.
With a history and a system so weighted on the side of Darwinism, I can see that it would seem an untruthful approach to actually hear an explanation of ID in it's entirety. I realize that it is scary ground for those in the atheistic camp to have someone actually express the scientific possibility of an Intelligence that designed life on earth. The norm in recent years has been for those holding the reins of academia to shut down such voices and silence them. I feel that your offense is not that something untruthful was committed, rather that voices once silenced are actually unafraid to speak the Truth -- and are being heard.
Well said. I'm a film/video editor myself and am well aware of editing tactics used to twist people's perceptions. Michael Moore uses them like crazy in his movies. That's why I can't stand his work. But in this movie, yes the movie clearly had an agenda, BUT there was no editing or cutting the interviews with the Darwinists in anyway that twisted their words. They pretty much hung themselves as they rambled on. I mean, in the interview with Richard Dawkins, when he began rambling on about there having to be intelligent design (even though he is against intelligent design) and then said there is no God but it could have been aliens from another planet, there was no editing and Ben Stein just sat there quietly and let him ramble. So people can say what they will about the integrity of the film but the Dawinists hung themselves with no outside help. So it is very important to them that they get everybody to believe that the film twisted was dishonest and twisted their words. But it's just not so.
_____________________________
To a pharisee, "Truth is more important than love."
To the spiritually healthy, "Love is the most important part of truth."
www.familyroommedia.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/20/2008 7:25:07 PM
|
|
|
TomTurn
Posts: 650
Joined: 3/13/2008
Status: online
|
Well said shadowspring
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/20/2008 7:35:29 PM
|
|
|
ManimalX
Posts: 587
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
|
tacitus: the only thing that ended up changing was the film's title from Crossroads to Expelled. I saw some of this bunk about the poor atheists and evolutionists being "tricked" in other threads in the science forum, and they are pretty much all just desperate attempts by the other side to find something they can pick nits over. The godless weren't tricked, they gave their honest opinions to straightforward questions.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/20/2008 7:38:24 PM
|
|
|
PROPHETSONG
Posts: 106
Joined: 9/21/2006
From: PHILADELPHIA
Status: offline
|
he is a Jew and he has the courage of one of the ancient prophets of Israel. may God bless him richly
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
So does anyone know if Ben is simply an agnostic, a Jew, or a Christian?
_____________________________
JER 1: 18 Today I have made you a fortified city, an iron pillar and a bronze wall to stand against the whole land--against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests and the people of the land.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/21/2008 12:25:58 AM
|
|
|
Jhud
Posts: 6780
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
|
I saw this movie today, and I highly recommend to anyone who is the least bit interested in the conflict between a science informed by atheism, and a science that allows for the evidence that life displays in it's fundamental structure evidence of design.
It takes great pains to give time to voices on both sides of the issue, though it obviously advocates on the side of academic freedom. I hope that this movie is seen by many people.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-200
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/21/2008 1:09:54 AM
|
|
|
cynthia
Posts: 7250
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: offline
|
I'm glad that it is finally being told that the issue really does not come down to science at all. It comes down to world view and world view determines what one does with evidence of any kind.
_____________________________
"A tax supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state."
-- Isabel Patterson
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/21/2008 8:15:01 AM
|
|
|
iluvatar
Posts: 1275
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
I'm glad that it is finally being told that the issue really does not come down to science at all. It comes down to world view and world view determines what one does with evidence of any kind.
I think this post highlights part of the problem surrounding this issue and this movie. ID is not the same thing as YEC, but I see many YEC proponents using this movie as justification for their beliefs that the YEC position is as scientifically valid as any other, that YEC "science" is also being hushed, and that the YEC position is disregarded by scientists because they don't want to acknowledge the possible existence of God.
Many lines of evidence only point in one direction independent of worldview, or at least require so much shoehorning as to make its support of a second position completely absurd.
-Dan.
_____________________________
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/21/2008 11:45:48 AM
|
|
|
cynthia
Posts: 7250
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
I'm glad that it is finally being told that the issue really does not come down to science at all. It comes down to world view and world view determines what one does with evidence of any kind.
I think this post highlights part of the problem surrounding this issue and this movie. ID is not the same thing as YEC, but I see many YEC proponents using this movie as justification for their beliefs that the YEC position is as scientifically valid as any other, that YEC "science" is also being hushed, and that the YEC position is disregarded by scientists because they don't want to acknowledge the possible existence of God.
Many lines of evidence only point in one direction independent of worldview, or at least require so much shoehorning as to make its support of a second position completely absurd.
-Dan.
This is a prime example of the arrogance that Ben Stein is talking about. There is plenty of evidence of YEC, unless one has a world view that tells them the earth is old and any other belief is foolish. If one is thoroughly convinced that the earth is old and that anyone with a different belief simply won’t admit to the facts, then it doesn’t matter what kind of evidence will be presented, it will be dismissed as ridiculous.
Personally, I believe that the earth is fairly young; certainly not millions or even hundreds of thousands of years old. I can see that the Bible is not a science book, but it does give us some basic understanding of some things to help us along. One example of this is how the word of God tells us that God stretched out the heavens.
Isaiah 42:5
Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread for the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therin:
The evolutionist would say that the earth and the universe is old because of the distance of the stars and how long it takes to bring their light to the earth from afar. The creationist would say that God spread it out, rather than simply creating the stars and then not spreading their light as well.
This is but one example of how world view determines the evidence. Examples could be given in every area of scientific inquiry, but those that disagree cling to the monotonous mantra that those who believe other than they do are just religious fanatics and full of baloney.
ETA: to correct a word
< Message edited by cynthia -- 4/21/2008 12:12:21 PM >
_____________________________
"A tax supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state."
-- Isabel Patterson
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/21/2008 11:47:17 AM
|
|
|
laserfocused
Posts: 9
Joined: 5/1/2006
From: Planet Earth
Status: offline
|
I saw the movie and loved it. Then again I believe in ID :).
Anyway, very thought provoking. Loved the humor intertwined and also loved the heart moving scenes of what evolution "can" lead to.
I must say Dawkins made himself look bad esp. at the end, and of course Ben Stein helped him along, but hey that's what he does....hee hee hee
Oh, David Berlinski is da man.
WARNING to all would be adversaries (Darwinists), don't argue/debate w/ that dude.
You can't win, it's like Earcle fighting the Hulk.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/21/2008 12:07:09 PM
|
|
|
selahgirl
Posts: 1001
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
Status: offline
|
The movie EXPELLED was wonderfully directed. It provides excellent insight into the theory of Intelligent Design, as well as the tensions that exist with the self-proclaimed atheistic supporters of Darwins Theories of Evolution and Natural Selection.
It is a serious documentary that effectively reveals the rejection of ID in current scientific and academic circles. But more than that, it takes the viewer through a thought process of where life on earth may have actually begun. It opens the door to several theories, and emphasizes that because all are rooted in theory... world view is the determining factor of what each person embraces as truth.
Those that reject the existence of any God at all... reject the possibility that there may be a God that is actually Creator, though they admit that life may have been seeded on the earth by aliens (a more intelligent life form from somewhere in space).
Those that embrace the possible existence of a God... present evolution and natural selection on a smaller scale as possibilities within the process of the creation of life on earth as we know it. But that there is one master designer and planner that created all things.
There are other theories and various colors of the two main theories, but there is a strong force at work (a very iron-fisted force) that touts Darwinism as absolute fact. Even though the truth of the matter is that it remains as much or more so theory as the rest. There is no clear and valid evidence of the origin of life in the field of scientific study -- not Evolution or Darwin or ID or the Atheistic Camp offers a defined and sure explanation. It is solely dependent upon what a person puts their faith in, what they choose to believe is truth.
The humor of this movie is BRILLIANT. While the facts and dialog remain serious and straight-forward, clips from historic events and old broadcasts are inserted for emphasis... offering a crazy, random humor that appeals to a contemporary audience. Very funny.
The most moving thing for me was the journey and progression of where the rejection of truth and freedom in the areas of science and academia lead... every society, every time, if left unchecked. When men can control and manipulate and intimidate what is truth, there is no freedom of thought, there is no freedom of expression, there is no freedom of religion, there is NO FREEDOM. This is the spirit that we see at work in our nation in this day. This is the world view -- the sterilization of science that has attempted to sterilize all belief in God and to sterilize all people that seek to protect and advance a free society. The sterilization of truth itself.
In the world today, evolution is the poster child that claims there is no God, no one is created in the image of God, every soul on earth was a blob and is destined to return to the nothingness of that blobbie state. Natural Selection is the excuse for a chosen few to determine who is defined as the healthiest blob, most desirable, favored to survive, deserving of life. Therefore, people are of little value unless the powers that be say they are. Only those that the elite rulers declare are worthy have a right or need to live at all.
yes, it becomes a slippery slope to genocide, euthanasia, abortion, sterilization/murder of the crippled and mentally challenged, young, old, black, white, asian, Jew...
sounds so far fetched until you look back a generation to the Nazi death camps, the cleansing of imperfect blobs from society to create beautiful people in a beautiful society. Servants of a tyrant, servants of a utopian society.
World view is the key. We will all serve someone. Creator, Intelligent Designer, Tyrant, An Elitist Society. Everyone is looking for a heaven. One designed by God or one designed by men or by a society. But the truth of the matter is that only one is Right, only one is actually Truth.
However....
Everyone should have the freedom to choose which one they will serve,
No one has the right to force others to serve the one they choose...
No one has the right to silence/remove the other choices.
All have a right to be heard and to have a voice.
Darwinism is theory. ID is just as much a valid scientific possibility as evolution.
Both have a right to be heard.
Neither should be EXPELLED from scientific thought.
.
< Message edited by selahgirl -- 4/21/2008 1:00:55 PM >
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/21/2008 12:46:21 PM
|
|
|
rgsoundguy
Posts: 112
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Cherry Hill, NJ
Status: offline
|
I have not seen it, but I am planning on it. My church is promoting it to the congregation pretty heavily. I heard in the radio this morning that it came in at #9 for the box office numbers from over the weekend. I would think a lot of that came from churches promoting the movie.
_____________________________
"Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither." Ben Franklin
"So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause." -Padme (Starwars Episode III)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/21/2008 12:49:06 PM
|
|
|
cynthia
Posts: 7250
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
I have not seen it, but I am planning on it. My church is promoting it to the congregation pretty heavily. I heard in the radio this morning that it came in at #9 for the box office numbers from over the weekend. I would think a lot of that came from churches promoting the movie.
That's great. Did this movie have a limited release? I wonder how that compares to other documentary movies that have been out in the last couple of years.
_____________________________
"A tax supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state."
-- Isabel Patterson
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/21/2008 5:35:15 PM
|
|
|
topshot
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
|
I was able to choke down my laughter at all of the anti-ID comments until near the end when Dawkins made a comment that could be taken as aliens started life here.
_____________________________
"If you are not concerned about your neighbor's salvation,
you should be concerned about your own."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/21/2008 7:36:04 PM
|
|
|
coleel
Posts: 5
Status: offline
|
I haven't seen the movie yet but I hope it encourages school kids to start asking questions in their science classes. Even when I was in school a long time ago we were taught the theory of evolution as if it were absolute truth with no alternatives allowed. Those "intelligent" student questions were frowned upon. It's time for some intelligent discourse to be allowed between teacher and student instead of just dumb acceptance of current evolutionary thought.
_____________________________
Be Real
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/21/2008 7:46:24 PM
|
|
|
iluvatar
Posts: 1275
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
but those that disagree cling to the monotonous mantra that those who believe other than they do are just religious fanatics and full of baloney.
The only ones among the YEC camp whom I contend are full of baloney are the populists - the authors and publishers who continually push what I believe are weakly supported theories and often equally-as-weak critiques of the opposition. I don't blame the public for not being able to tell the difference - in general, YEC populists do a much better job of marketing their ideas and exposing their opponents' weaknesses than do scientists. I've come across very little secular material that addresses the supposed evidence for a young earth; those I have come across have generally been very arrogant and snarky - I wouldn't believe them either if I was looking for answers.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
This is a prime example of the arrogance that Ben Stein is talking about. There is plenty of evidence of YEC, unless one has a world view that tells them the earth is old and any other belief is foolish. If one is thoroughly convinced that the earth is old and that anyone with a different belief simply won’t admit to the facts, then it doesn’t matter what kind of evidence will be presented, it will be dismissed as ridiculous.
That's not true. I don't dismiss supposed evidence for a YE as "ridiculous." What I do have a problem with is the sort of "silver bullet" treatment that many of these lines of evidence receiving from YEC organizations. Some examples are the depth of the dust on the moon, or the rotation of galaxies, or the amount of helium in the atmosphere. Often you'll find a list of evidence supporting a young earth that's written in a way to convince you that because of these 5/10/20 things, the universe is young. What's not listed are the decades (or centuries) worth of research pointing towards an old earth and all the problems that a YE theory has to overcome.
In order for a theory to be accepted, it has to be consistent with all (or at least most) of the data available. While there may be holes in the current widely-accepted-OE framework, the YE theory is nowhere near as comprehensive.
quote:
The evolutionist would say that the earth and the universe is old because of the distance of the stars and how long it takes to bring their light to the earth from afar. The creationist would say that God spread it out, rather than simply creating the stars and then not spreading their light as well.
This is but one example of how world view determines the evidence. Examples could be given in every area of scientific inquiry...
If that were the only line of evidence pointing towards a recent creation, you'd have a point. But it isn't; and scientists have to interpret new evidence in light of ALL of the existing evidence.
Interestingly enough, the issue of light travel has presented problems for proponents of both YEC and the Big Bang theory. If you're interested, look up the Horizon Problem and Inflation Theory. It's pretty interesting.
-Dan.
< Message edited by iluvatar -- 4/21/2008 7:54:26 PM >
_____________________________
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Ben Steins movie "Expelled" - 4/22/2008 4:19:59 PM
|
|
|
CatholicCritter
Posts: 129
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
|
A few observations..
1. If folks are going to turn blue in the face because they're getting needled by Ben Stein, then perhaps they've become a bit too "dogmatic" for their own good. Furthermore, the inability to remount a response to ID more coherent and reasoned than spittle-flecked rage does not augur well for much of the scientific community, or at least the portion that's reared its head so far with respect to this issue.
2. God created everything. I simply don't think that scientific methodology or observed data is sufficient to prove that truth. I think the ID movement has fallen prey to the "research ideal" and the trend of "scientism". I applaud their conviction and zeal, but would caution that science, when it comes to questions of such magnitude as the Beginning of It All, is terribly ill-equipped. It's like trying to rewrite a history of the Roman Empire based on a line of graffiti you found scribbled on the Colosseum.
3. The movie seems to accept as given that there is, in fact, a contradiction between evolution as commonly accepted by science and the Christian faith. Indeed, those who say otherwise are brushed aside in the movie as liberals, which is an overgeneralization. The alleged contradiction is a properly theological and philosophical question, and not all faithful Catholics (or Protestants, for that matter) agree on the answer, to put it mildly.
4. I wanna see it again.
_____________________________
http://saintunderconstruction.blogspot.com/
"There are not 100 people who hate the Catholic Church, yet there are millions who hate what they believe the Catholic Church to be." --Archbishop Fulton Sheen
|
|
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
