RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (Full Version)

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SD456 -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/10/2008 5:06:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackCapnHarlock

I disagree, I think discernment is lacked on both sides, from the hard core traditionalists to the Name it and claim it folks, I think the truth is in the middle.

Just working on my own study.


I agree. We ALL only see in part so we will all lack truth to some degree or another, even those in the middle. I do disagree the most those with those on either extremes.



SD456 -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/10/2008 5:10:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: howling wind

quote:

And by the way, I never said that he went to heaven, I said that Jesus showed him heaven. He also saw hell....just to put a bit more truth into your statements. Witnessed by dozens of people, too.


Witnessed by dozens of people, eh? Could I have their names plus their phone numbers and/or addresses to verify this miracle? Could I have the name(s) of this person's doctor(s) for further proof?


LOL! I wonder if christians through the ages demanded medical proof and, "paperwork, please!" for all the miracles that have happened over the past 2000 years. You are too funny. Give me proof!!! I think that was the motto of doubting Thomas.....



SD456 -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/10/2008 5:11:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: .prophetica.

Hello! The worst thing that has happened to the Church of God is the Dragon; Satan. From the fall at the tree in the garden of eden in disobedience to God, and continuing to our present era.



Yes, that would be it! I think that's the worst, though I've changed my mind several times. If only Lucifer hadn't rebelled we wouldn't have had the garden of eden fiasco.

But we might have found a differnt way to screw things up...



sue244 -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/10/2008 8:34:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456

quote:

ORIGINAL: howling wind

quote:

And by the way, I never said that he went to heaven, I said that Jesus showed him heaven. He also saw hell....just to put a bit more truth into your statements. Witnessed by dozens of people, too.


Witnessed by dozens of people, eh? Could I have their names plus their phone numbers and/or addresses to verify this miracle? Could I have the name(s) of this person's doctor(s) for further proof?


LOL! I wonder if christians through the ages demanded medical proof and, "paperwork, please!" for all the miracles that have happened over the past 2000 years. You are too funny. Give me proof!!! I think that was the motto of doubting Thomas.....


Couldn't possabely be being good Breanens who check everything according to the word. No we are doubting Thomas because we don't believe a story on the internet.[8|]

I think I will add to what I think is the worst thing that has happened. A disregard, and disdane for the gift of Discernment.



howling wind -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/11/2008 9:53:04 AM)

quote:

LOL! I wonder if christians through the ages demanded medical proof and, "paperwork, please!" for all the miracles that have happened over the past 2000 years. You are too funny. Give me proof!!! I think that was the motto of doubting Thomas.....


In light of all the shenanigans that pass as "miracles" by most of the WoF cult, to require proof is not just recommended, but necessary.

Call me a "doubting Thomas" if you like, but you are the one being duped.[8|]

I went and read your story about the Hawaiian family and I noticed that you spoke in generalities:

What month and year did this occur?

What Hawaiian town/city did this occur in?

What was the name of the funeral home?

Had the person been embalmed?

If they had been embalmed (a procedure that would dramatically alter a person's chemistry), was a doctor called in to check on how this person was - physically - after being dead for two days?

How can a non-Christian "travel" to Heaven and have an audience with Jesus (scripture please)?

How come the morgue never reported this story to the media?

I also notice the comparison between how you relate this story and how most WoF "ministers" relate their outlandish stories. There usually is no specific town mentioned, they never have a name for the person the miracle happened to, etc. In short, there is never any evidence to corroborate their stories.

Unless you can provide evidence, your story is still nothing more than a tall tale. And, if I am wrong, then God will work it out with me.



dance4joy -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/11/2008 10:20:38 AM)

If you really think about it there's really no comparison between Thomas doubting the other disciples' eyewitness testimony, people whom he spent several years with and most likely trusted very deeply. . .and us doubting the validity of some vague story posted online by people we've never met.



howling wind -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/11/2008 12:18:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dance4joy

If you really think about it there's really no comparison between Thomas doubting the other disciples' eyewitness testimony, people whom he spent several years with and most likely trusted very deeply. . .and us doubting the validity of some vague story posted online by people we've never met.


Good point. SD456 can call everyone who doubts the story of "the Hawaiian resurrection" a "doubting Thomas", but her name calling does not change the fact that the story is simply not true. Scripture does not support it and the evidence does not support it. Thomas may have doubted Jesus' resurrection, but he had evidence - Jesus himself standing before Thomas and letting him check out His resurrected body.

I did a web search for Craig and Susan Bagley, the people SD456 says were witnesses to "the Hawaiian resurrection", and there is no mention of them and/or this story (the only mention of the Bagley's that I could find links them to a ministry that is supported by notorious false prophet Morris Cerullo). No proof equals no story.

**I've hijacked this thread and now give it back...**



earthless -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/11/2008 1:15:18 PM)

"Morris Cerullo"

That explains a lot... unreal.



SD456 -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/13/2008 6:23:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: howling wind

quote:

ORIGINAL: dance4joy

If you really think about it there's really no comparison between Thomas doubting the other disciples' eyewitness testimony, people whom he spent several years with and most likely trusted very deeply. . .and us doubting the validity of some vague story posted online by people we've never met.


Good point. SD456 can call everyone who doubts the story of "the Hawaiian resurrection" a "doubting Thomas", but her name calling does not change the fact that the story is simply not true. Scripture does not support it and the evidence does not support it. Thomas may have doubted Jesus' resurrection, but he had evidence - Jesus himself standing before Thomas and letting him check out His resurrected body.

I did a web search for Craig and Susan Bagley, the people SD456 says were witnesses to "the Hawaiian resurrection", and there is no mention of them and/or this story (the only mention of the Bagley's that I could find links them to a ministry that is supported by notorious false prophet Morris Cerullo). No proof equals no story.

**I've hijacked this thread and now give it back...**


[:D] ROFL. Boy your's guys' feathers sure were ruffled with that witness of a miracle. You're even dragging it around to other threads it got under your skin so badly.

God does so love to offend our minds to get to our hearts..... and He is always proving it. *L*



SD456 -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/13/2008 6:27:01 PM)

I'm back to believing that it's the 'age of reasoning' and 'enlightenment' that infiltrated the church, with Greek philosophies, together they ruined the church the most. .

But then, satan in eden is a definate good one.



JimboFletch -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/14/2008 3:09:14 PM)

To just name a few examples why accepting claims without support might contain at least the seeds of wisdom and discernment:

Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker, Jim Jones, Jimmy Swaggart, and David Koresh...



drk6 -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/22/2008 5:44:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: groovymovieman

quote:

Looking at everyone's comments. It looks to me like things were great until people got involved.


Actually, that point doesn't really make sense to me. People weren't involved in the book of Acts? The church and following Christ aren't some kind of noble utopian concept like Marxism that looked great on paper but then got messed up when people got involved. The beautiful description we see in Acts of the church in the Bible was entirely the actions of the people and their connection to their resurrected Lord. It wasn't a creed or a manifesto, it was people following a person who was raised from the dead. So that comment just doesn't make sense. It has always been nothing BUT people involved. No offense, but to me it's a cop-out to avoid taking a hard look at the real issues that have weakened the church and stolen the affections of people away from Christ.


To expand on my statement about people being involved, I was trying to make the point that the problems began when people stop following the Spirit and are lead by their egos or are motivated by profit.



gmc4Jesus -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/22/2008 11:27:42 PM)

Greetings in the name and love of Jesus Christ our Lord.

The worst thing that can happen to Christianity is when sin gets in the church. What kind of example are we to the world when they don't see us acting like believers in Christ? How can we show Jesus changed our life when we continue in the sin that they are doing?

The second worse thing that can happen to Christianity is when Christians spend time judging, criticizing and condemning other Christians simply because they see things differently. Often times, these arguments are over semantics. You didn't say it the way I said it, so you are wrong and I've got to make you say it my way. Something is wrong with that kind of attitude.

There are many people dying outside of Christ who could be saved if we would engage them with the love of Christ and let them see how God has changed our lives. They will know we are Christians by our love.

Edited TOS 13



BibleL7 -> RE: What is the worst thing to happen to Christanity? (4/23/2008 2:29:51 AM)

The Church left its first love and started whoring around with the world not separating itself from world but thinking it should be more like the world to gain membership. Forgetting about truth and judgement aspects of God and saying He is love not Judge. Which of course if you look up the word used by Hebrew Scriptures for God is also used for judges. The saying Jesus ended judgement and call to righteousness. If we choose to follow the worlds ways then we cease being the church for the church is supposed to be called out ones.

Just the opinion of a small town preacher



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