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ORIGINAL: P31W
The freedom deals with getting yourself fixed, your partner fixed or not having sex.

You intrude on someone elses freedom when you "create them" and then decide that it's wrong for them to live.

RvW remember deals with abortion on demand. It had nothing to do with medical problems or rape.

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ROFL what a bunch of bologna.

Some people think that sex with children is OK. Of course in some countries people don't speak out and those children boys and girls are raped day after day. But hey who has the time to deal with that! We are too busy walking by them saying "God bless you".

I will continue to stand in the gap. Even if you think I don't have the "time to do it".

Many saw slavery as "right" too.

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What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

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There are many parallels between slavery and abortion and you'll find some of them on exhibit right here, namely the defense of it's legalization. Christians who accept legalization of abortion are the intellectual descendents of Christians who accpeted legalization of slavery.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

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There are many parallels between slavery and abortion and you'll find some of them on exhibit right here, namely the defense of it's legalization. Christians who accept legalization of abortion are the intellectual descendents of Christians who accpeted legalization of slavery.

Keep drawing the comparison if you'd like, but don't forget that chattel slavery went on for roughly 400 years. It started on the Portuguese island of Madeira around 1450, and continued in the US until the Civil War

I think that there can be an end to abortion in 50 years if we take the right approach. If we take the ljmac approach, it will take another 370 years.

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ORIGINAL: P31W

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"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. 9 Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."

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You trample on the poor
and force him to give you grain.
Therefore, though you have built stone mansions,
you will not live in them;
though you have planted lush vineyards,
you will not drink their wine.

For I know how many are your offenses
and how great your sins.
You oppress the righteous and take bribes
and you deprive the poor of justice in the courts.

Therefore the prudent man keeps quiet in such times,
for the times are evil.

Seek good, not evil,
that you may live.
Then the LORD God Almighty will be with you,
just as you say he is.

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ORIGINAL: P31W
James 4:17
Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.

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If we interpret James the way you would have us interpret it with regard to abortion, then all of us are sinning right now while we should be working to make sure that Asia and Africa get food- as well as asking the government to mandate hundreds of billions in taxpayer aid to fund all of it.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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If we interpret James the way you would have us interpret it with regard to abortion, then all of us are sinning right now while we should be working to make sure that Asia and Africa get food- as well as asking the government to mandate hundreds of billions in taxpayer aid to fund all of it.

While I agree we should all do what we can to help the poor, the above assumes that the problems in Asia and Africa can be solved simply be 'sending food' - there is much reason to think this isn't so, or that just doing so would solve the problem.

You can send all the 'food' you want to Darfur for example, but this isn't going to change the situtation there.

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ORIGINAL: ljmac
I admit it. It isn't really my idea. Democrats long for the good old days when they could do just that. Reagan, GHWB and GWB stood up to them and said no. But if elected, then first thing our first (half) black president will do is send our money to Africa to abort poor black children.

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So why aren't you off in Africa helping poor kids get food? Obviously, it's infeasible to apply this on a broad level.

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as well as asking the government to mandate hundreds of billions in taxpayer aid to fund all of it.

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There is much bigger injustice going on in the world than a mere 1 million abortions a year

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There is much bigger injustice going on in the world than a mere 1 million abortions a year

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ORIGINAL: StephK

You do realize that is 1 million souls. Don't forget that you were once an unborn baby. Maybe if you saw the development from conception to birth you would see it. National Geographic has an excellent program showing the development of a baby from the moment of conception.

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Being "in Africa" would be a sin for me because I can help them more being right where I am. Working to "pay" for those who are over there and sending "them" the money to buy them food.

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Sorry but according to scripture this is not the role of the government. It's the role of the Christian to help people who are going without.

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Your attitude is showing. You ARE a citizen of "this country" and it's "YOU" who view what is happening in the country "you" are a part of as - "mere".

How can you tell other countries what their problems are with "injustice" when your blind to what you are enabling right here?

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The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

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ORIGINAL: P31W
James 4:17
Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.

So why aren't you off in Africa helping poor kids get food? Obviously, it's infeasible to apply this on a broad level. The most we can do is to do the right thing when the opportunity comes to us. For some, that means making sure a beggar can get food for the evening (Yes, by actually buying him something to eat- rather than giving him money.) For others, it may mean making sure that a wife, a sister, a cousin, or whoever else can bring their baby to term and get an adoption.

However, I'm reminded of the AARP commercial where a guy goes around asking people "Help save social security!" and is collecting trillions of dollars when I think of the notion that James 4:17 asks us to correct all injustice. There is much bigger injustice going on in the world than a mere 1 million abortions a year; tens of millions of children die every year in African and Asia due to malnourishment. If we interpret James the way you would have us interpret it with regard to abortion, then all of us are sinning right now while we should be working to make sure that Asia and Africa get food- as well as asking the government to mandate hundreds of billions in taxpayer aid to fund all of it.

In reality, James was written in regards to correcting the injustices we see in front of us. He didn't intend for us to become Jesus's lobbyists.

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So why are you still typing? $3 buys a kid food for a day. Assuming you make $30/hour and it took you six minutes to type that post, you just cost a hungry African kid breakfast, lunch and dinner. Shame on you for sinning, according to your interpretation of James!

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I thought the government's job was to mandate morality and defend those that can't speak for themselves. Thus, we should pass as many laws as possible to regulate morality, which includes devoting a large portion of federal tax dollars to feeding starving people.

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By this logic, you are enabling lying by voting for politicians.

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Paul was smart enough to realize that human beings can't control all of the sin in the world. The most we can do is control the sin in our own hearts, control the sin in the church, and then focus on the more important stuff- fulfill the great comission by loving our neighbors as ourselves.

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Why don't we work on that part, instead?

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Instead of campaigning for the angriest anti-abortion advocate, why not work on helping young women get adoptions? Which would you think exemplifies the fruit of the spirit more- and the acts of sinful nature less?

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I think that given what Paul wrote about in the acts of sinful nature- particularly hatred, discord, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, and envy, it is very difficult for a Christian to get deeply involved in politics and avoid having to worry about the sinful nature.

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So the best option is to- aside from cheerfully voting- just stay out of politics. If you do get involved in politics, please don't go around saying that people are bad Christians if they don't get that involved. At best, this only serves to stir up dissension in the Church.

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In reality, James was written in regards to correcting the injustices we see in front of us.

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And don't forget that you were once a six year old kid. We take so many things for granted in this world. I take for granted that my mom didn't abort me; you take for granted that you got food on your plate.

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ORIGINAL: P31W
I get paid "while" I post and when I sleep. I work my money.

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To know the right thing to do and not do it is a sin. (that is not limited to our use of time or money - it includes our voices and our typed words on this forum. For me to remain silent while you disreguard human life would be for me a sin)

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Romans 13 - Study This

1 Obey the government, for God is the one who put it there. All governments have been placed in power by God. 2 So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow. 3 For the authorities do not frighten people who are doing right, but they frighten those who do wrong. So do what they say, and you will get along well. 4 The authorities are sent by God to help you. But if you are doing something wrong, of course you should be afraid, for you will be punished. The authorities are established by God for that very purpose, to punish those who do wrong. 5 So you must obey the government for two reasons: to keep from being punished and to keep a clear conscience. 6 Pay your taxes, too, for these same reasons. For government workers need to be paid so they can keep on doing the work God intended them to do.

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I don't vote for people I know who willingly lie.

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Paul spent a great deal of his time collecting money for suffering saints. God tells us that we are to speak up for those who have no voice and to seek justice for them. Your argument is full of hot air.

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My church supports two baptist ophanages. Why don't you realize we are capable of doing many things.

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What you think is of little concern to me. We as Christians have one living in us who is greater than he who is in the world. You may be so immature in your walk that you can't handle getting involved in politial matters but you are not the standard by which I measure others.

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The topic is babies being called "punishment" when God says they are a blessing from Him. Chistians hate what God hates. God hates lies told about him.

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BTW your participation in the current events political threads tell me that you involve yourself when you want to. It also appears to me that your involvement deals with your spending your time telling Christian they need to remain silent about the murder of the innocent.

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And here you have contradicted yourself. We know abortion is in front of us. God through the pen of James tells us according to you and I agree to work to correct it - not remain passive.

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I don't want people to be silent on abortion- I just want people to stop seeing the same overused arguments day in and day out. If you want change, come up with something new.

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You feel that, beyond stopping people you encounter who are trying to have abortions, that we should use the government to pass laws against this.

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However, you do not feel that the government should prevent other injustices that Jesus instructs us to correct- like hunger

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A Christian website shouldn't be a place where everybody sits together and agree that group XYZ is evil, and as a result, I find myself playing devil's advocate.

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It sure shoulds like you want us to! The agrument is not overused. Come to Miss.

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I will show you how "we Chrisitans" have worked to make abortion in our state the hardest to get.

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While RvW may be an angry and bitter old man, it's a far reach to ascribe him to inciting murder in peoples' hearts. To make a statement like is not only reckless, it is hateful and slanderous as well. Two wrongs don't make a right. Unless you know the man personally and have witnessed a murder based off of his order, then by all means call the police. Because that means he is an accessory to murder. If not, you hold no court to convict him as you have with that statement. Have you no mercy or compassion or even pity for someone who has lost hope? Check your own heart.

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ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky

I tell you. As an African American, reading some of these posts makes me almost as upset as watching the movie Mississippi Burning. And people can't accept that fact that we have a very long way to go as far as understanding each other. I'm sorry, but to say that there are many parallels between slavery and abortion is just plain ignorance. What is obvious is that slavery deals with lives OUTSIDE of the womb. Another obvious observation would tell you you that slavery was economic. Abortion is not about economics. Yes, slaves were murdered. But unlike unborn babies. Often times the choice was not hard to kill a slave. Especially if they got sick on a slave ship. Sometimes they were thrown overboard just because there were too many. The choice to have an abortion takes much thought and grief for the individual. Trust me, I have a friend who went through the ordeal. Slavery was sanctioned by Christians. Abortion was not unless I'm mistaken. The offspring of slaves were highly valued and encouraged because it was a sign of wealth for the slave owner. Abortion doesn't encourage birth at all. I can go on and on about there NOT being many parallels between slavery and abortion.

Also, PW13 states " No matter how someone may feel about their spouse.....the law does not give the right to murder them on demand. (that is what RvW is about murder on demand of a certain group of people) "

While RvW may be an angry and bitter old man, it's a far reach to ascribe him to inciting murder in peoples' hearts. To make a statement like is not only reckless, it is hateful and slanderous as well. Two wrongs don't make a right. Unless you know the man personally and have witnessed a murder based off of his order, then by all means call the police. Because that means he is an accessory to murder. If not, you hold no court to convict him as you have with that statement. Have you no mercy or compassion or even pity for someone who has lost hope? Check your own heart.

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I can go on and on about there NOT being many parallels between slavery and abortion.

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ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter

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While RvW may be an angry and bitter old man, it's a far reach to ascribe him to inciting murder in peoples' hearts. To make a statement like is not only reckless, it is hateful and slanderous as well. Two wrongs don't make a right. Unless you know the man personally and have witnessed a murder based off of his order, then by all means call the police. Because that means he is an accessory to murder. If not, you hold no court to convict him as you have with that statement. Have you no mercy or compassion or even pity for someone who has lost hope? Check your own heart.

Um..."RvW" aren't the initals of a person. It's shorthand for "Roe vs. Wade", the landmark 1973 Supreme Court case that legalized the practice of abortion.

Just sayin'. Carry on.