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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 9:02:20 PM
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W.O.F.
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although in 2007, Richmond's crime rate dropped to number 9, and Detroit Michigan took number 1. NYC wasn't even in the top 25...which in this case...is a good thing! This particular crime rate includes ALL crime..rapes,murders, assault, theft, etc.
in fact...in 2002...NYC was one of the top 10 SAFEST cities in the US....
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Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/10/2008 5:31:06 PM
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tom865
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quote:
I found her comment that she didn't give him a cell phone because she didn't want him to lose it very telling. So, she'd rather lose her son than her cell?
The bolded part is misrepresentation. She wasn't intending on losing her son. That said, I would think nine is a little young. However, if he was mature for his age, had made good decisions (in similar situations) before, and was trusted by mom (I know, obviously) I could see it as a good idea.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/10/2008 5:45:43 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
She wasn't intending on losing her son. I'm sure her son wouldn't have intended to lose a mobile phone either...
Surely if the boy is responsible enough to get himself home he should be responsible enough to not lose a mobile phone...
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Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/10/2008 9:33:01 PM
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shadowspring
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My best friend grew up in NYC in the '40s. Here parents would give her money and let her ride the subway to the movies, the zoo, the park, when she was a young tween.
My foreign exchange students from Turkey and Brazil routinely have taken public transportation to school, playmates homes, etc. form a much earlier age than most Americans would ever be allowed, much less encouraged. They lived in Recife and Izmir, big cities by my standards.
I don't think they are wrong to do so, nor was the mother in the original post. Her child was fine, and so proud of his accomplishment!
I wonder how many times they had traveled that route together, mom and son, before he got his solo attempt approved? We just can't really know unless we were in that family, in that place.
But one things for sure, the city kids that I knew who enjoyed that kind of freedom and responsibility have sure lived up to it. My foreign exchange students were world-travelers as teenagers! They were great ambassadors of their families and countries.
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 "All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost..." -J. R. R. Tolkien
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/10/2008 11:36:50 PM
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Christian30
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I do not live in NYC but have spent time there and know the area. I'd not say flat-out that I would not let a 9yo ride the subway alone, but I'd not let a 9yo do what the article from the OP posting did. I MIGHT let a 9yo ride a route from one subway point to another (depending on safety of point A to pt. B), but not a situation where he/she had to change trains... totally different. For 9 yrs old, for me it would have to be no stops, with a relatively safe destination and a cell phone. I feel safer in NYC than some other cities, but you have to sort of "know the ropes."
In Tokyo in 1963 my wife rode the subway from one point to another (home/school) at the age of 6, but the city was super safe and that was a normal lifestyle practice in that place and time.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/11/2008 3:07:57 PM
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locomom
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While I fully agree with raising children for independence, I think it was totally inappropriate and was child endangerment to do this with a 9 yo. It would have been more appropriate for this child to lead a family trip on the subway or go with a responsible companion. Legally she took a huge risk since many states have laws against children staying in their homes alone at this age. In the last couple of weeks, the news for Philadelphia has reported 3 serious assaults in the subway system, one fatal.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/11/2008 3:10:28 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: locomom
While I fully agree with raising children for independence, I think it was totally inappropriate and was child endangerment to do this with a 9 yo. It would have been more appropriate for this child to lead a family trip on the subway or go with a responsible companion. Legally she took a huge risk since many states have laws against children staying in their homes alone at this age. In the last couple of weeks, the news for Philadelphia has reported 3 serious assaults in the subway system, one fatal.
Well, we already know that MTA has policies in effect for children riding alone from the age of 8, so that's not uncommon. I've never heard of a state law that says anything about the age of children staying home alone. Where can those be found?
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/11/2008 3:11:43 PM
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mannwald
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I agree with all the other replies that say they would not have let their children come home alone. I also agree with the reply that says she would rather lose her child than a cell phone. I cannot understand how any loving caring parent would do such a thing. It boggles my mind. I don't agree with the person who said things were just as bad in1963. They were great in '63.
But today things are so bad that it is even prudent for an adult person to always have a buddy along on all walks or runs or bicylcling or else drive. Why take chances? Too many children are abducted, too many are murdered, too many adults are abdcucted & murdered. What is wrong with you letting your child do this alone???
I think it is flat out irresponsible and that the responsible thing to do is to teach your child that life is not always safe. And that an adult should be along when in NYC - as safe as you think it may be, it is not.
I raised my 3 children (beginning in 1976) to understand that there are dangers out there. I even had to watch them walk to the mailbox when they were little. But now they are 32, 29 & 25 yrs. old and have very healthy yet cautious attitudes about being & traveling alone.
They are not neurotic nor scared idiots. They have wonderful careers and live by themselves, except one is married and of course lives with her spouse. They travel all over the country and even to Africa and Europe. Please reconsider the risk you are taking with your precious child, whom God as given to you to watch over and love.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/12/2008 8:03:17 AM
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W.O.F.
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I would not have given my child a cell phone either...but not because I was afraid of them losing it....rather because it could be a distraction to the child (who would be worried about losing it) as well as the fact that they can be "mugger magnets". The phone itself could have put the child in danger.
She made sure the child had plenty of funds (hidden) in the event of needing a phone call.
It was BECAUSE this child was precious that she wanted to make sure that he could do this...and he was ready for it.
Was it child endangerment?
No. It was life training. While I personally would not have felt comfortable doing it with one of my children at 9, I also do not live in NYC. I have sent my children into the grocery story at that age while I waited outside for them......
As to the comments about the Philadephia subway assualts....Philadelphia is one of the 25 most dangerous cities in the US.....New York is NOT it isn't even in the top 30!
I believe in training a child in knowing what and how to get by in the area where they live.
I know people who think I endanger my kids by allowing them to roam the woods behind our house without my hubby and I (the one under 10 have to have at least an older sibling with them). They know how to find their bearings (which would be equivalant to having a subway map like the article's son), they know how to signal for help (like the boy knowing to ask a subway attendant and having money for phone), and they don't go in without the proper shoes, etc (like the boy having a metro card, as well as cash).
More children get abducted from KNOWN areas such as schools, home, etc and MORE children get abducted by people they KNOW than from unknown people in unfamiliar location.
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Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/12/2008 10:41:46 PM
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W.O.F.
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I was thinking some more about this thread..and it came to me...
So many people are really upset with this lady for choosing to train her son in this way...and yet how many of these same people send their kids off to summer camp or school, or other activities without a second thought really? What is the difference really? The child is out of your supervision and being trusted to people about whom you really know very little about if the truth be known.
So...what makes it different?
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/12/2008 11:10:14 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
The major flaw I see in her theory is that it wasn't a safe thing to do in 1963, either!
I believe in giving kids independence- incrementally. I believe that amount of independence was a little much for a 9 yo. I know they can do it- I work in a large city and see kids navigating alone all the time- and I know that most of the time, statistically, it will be fine- but there are going to be situations- not a lot of them- that they will not have the experience or knowledge or resources to handle safely.
I know this, because, I, a grown adult, with a cell phone, run into at least a few each month.
It is like seat belts. Yes, most of the time, if you let your kid ride in the car without one he will get home safe. But the damage that can be caused by that one time (which you have no way to predict) is worth buckling them in every other time.
Tara P
Excellent points.
You took the words out of my mouth about 1963.
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/12/2008 11:13:04 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: W.O.F.
I was thinking some more about this thread..and it came to me...
So many people are really upset with this lady for choosing to train her son in this way...and yet how many of these same people send their kids off to summer camp or school, or other activities without a second thought really? What is the difference really? The child is out of your supervision and being trusted to people about whom you really know very little about if the truth be known.
So...what makes it different?
Another great point. It is amazing the authority we cede to people we really don't know, and just HOPE are okay people. Think of all the people who leave their children in day care situations where they really don't know the people taking care of their little ones. Not saying everyone who leaves their kids in day care is unaware of who is keeping their kids. But I know a bunch of people who are unaware. They just hope the day care center where they leave their kids is responsible in hiring.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/13/2008 12:24:43 AM
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locomom
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Stellaluna,
My daughter turns 20 yo in a week so I haven't concerned myself about anything like being home alone in quite a while. I remember that Maryland had one, but I don't really know whether it was city, county, or state level. I think we probably just called an appropriate government office or information service. I also remember Maryland had a law regarding the age of a casual babysitter (non-daycare-couple of hours out kind of thing).
As far as child endangerment, we each get to form our own opinions. However, we cannot forget what your local laws and child protective service standards are. What may seem perfectly reasonable to one of us, may not be legal.
As far as our nearby subway/train system in Philadelphia, the 3 recent attacks in Philly's subway have been done by groups of teens, some above legal age, some below. The first victim died as a result of the attack, the second two receive some injuries. As far as I can tell, all of them were plenty old enough to know better. Also, their victims weren't carrying a lot of money.
In Delaware, we have also had crime problems near or directly around our train station. A few years ago, a serial rapist was attacking women near the station.
I also wonder how a small person such as this 9 yo would handle the rush when it's very crowded. He is not in a good position to cope with the insane shoving and "stampede" of workers crazy to get home or to a favorite restaurant.
I would suggest that instead of OKing the boy ride by himself, that telling the boy no would have been a far better answer. Then finish the sentence with "...but you can take both of us home. Getting us there will be completely your job."
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/13/2008 4:00:08 PM
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keepitreal
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I think what the mother did was idiotic. As has been mentioned, if she was concerned he wouldn't take good care of a cell phone, she should have had the sense to realize "Hey! Maybe he isn't mature enough to take care of himself either!"
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/13/2008 9:23:42 PM
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Chrystal-J-007
Posts: 492
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From: Detroit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
The major flaw I see in her theory is that it wasn't a safe thing to do in 1963, either!
I believe in giving kids independence- incrementally. I believe that amount of independence was a little much for a 9 yo. I know they can do it- I work in a large city and see kids navigating alone all the time- and I know that most of the time, statistically, it will be fine- but there are going to be situations- not a lot of them- that they will not have the experience or knowledge or resources to handle safely.
I know this, because, I, a grown adult, with a cell phone, run into at least a few each month.
It is like seat belts. Yes, most of the time, if you let your kid ride in the car without one he will get home safe. But the damage that can be caused by that one time (which you have no way to predict) is worth buckling them in every other time.
Tara P
I agree with Tara's statement. Around here (in Detroit) I walk a lot to the store, post office etc. 90% of the time, there's no problem. But, every once in a while, you'll run into an unsavory character and you need to react quickly in that situation. (go into a store, cross the street, etc.) It doesn't happen a lot, but it happens and I can't imagine how a 9 year old would deal with it. That's too scary for me. I would never allow a young child to run around the city unsupervised. I've been on buses that broke down and I had to get off and find some other way home. I've had buses not show up and had to hail a cab. There are a lot of situations that can go bad out there. I would wait until the child is at least a mid-teenager before I'd let them go out in a big city alone.
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Worry looks around, Sorrow looks back, Faith looks up
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/13/2008 10:43:45 PM
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Melitac
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With all due respect, there is NO SUCH THING AS MAYBERRY. It was as fictional as Ward and June Cleavers marriage and homelife.
Even though our lives are all relative to where we live and what we are accustomed to...the kid on a farm milking cows or driving a million dollar combine; that is his life sure. The kid in NYC at 7 riding the subway and playing in Central Park, his ancestors did it too...Yeah, its all relative...right.
BUT:
All of this is not keeping with the reality that our world IS in fact getting meaner by the minute.
"Code Adam" and "Amber Alert" are here today because the times call for it.
We may be very able to arm our kids with the "expected problems".
BUT IT IS THE UNEXPECTED THINGS THAT KILL THEM.
I would never want to be the mother of a dead child that was raped and murdered "just because the risk is so low, really and Tommy is so very street smart". Good greif.
These mothers usually suffer horribly afterwards and use the rest of their lives doing what the can to warn other parents of the REAL dangers of not keeping your kids close to you.
Play with fire....you will likely get burned.
Let your kids roam far and wide and have too much freedom/responsibility, you run the risk of regretting your actions.
Sure, things happen to kids with their Moms 1 ft away. But I sure don't want to be the mother that was much farther away than that if my child was killed, murdered or raped. Because I know I would do everything in my power to stop it with my being RIGHT THERE.
If you want to be that "mother of an independent and so free a child",
The one that lets them go for miles even...
My heart FEARS FOR YOU.
YOURS are the children I pray for at night that are unwatched.
My parents are Dad 89 and Mom 84. My Dad rode the boxcars with hobos in his childhood up and down from the gulf coast to the Chicago suburbs. He lived a tough life. So did my mother that grew up with an abusive alcoholic father. She recall memories of her sister and herself eating ONLY
boiled potatoes for weeks on end during the depression.
But they both swear that the world is much meaner today than it was back when "Mayberry" was broadcast
(1950's ish era).
I believe them.
They have seen alot. They have lived life from childhoods of no electricity, horse drawn wagons, four major wars (my Dad fought in WWIIand Korean War) up until
the world as we know it today. My Dad has a computer and email. They have seen the world since before
"Mayberry" and I will trust them when they tell me that it is a much meaner world and to keep my children close at all times.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/14/2008 12:19:25 AM
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DenimDiva
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepitreal
I think what the mother did was idiotic. As has been mentioned, if she was concerned he wouldn't take good care of a cell phone, she should have had the sense to realize "Hey! Maybe he isn't mature enough to take care of himself either!"
I personally took that comment to be in jest.
However, there may be a time when her son is lost and has no cell phone. He would have to be able to get home by himself.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/14/2008 1:23:47 AM
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Melitac
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There may be a time that her son is lost.
(understandable, kids get lost.)
But what if the city loses power (it has happened), there is a MAJOR TERRORIST ATTACK on city (it has happened), the Subways get bombed and hundreds killed (it has happened)...
SUCH a bad situation that ALL COMMUNICATION AND TRANSPORTATION is CUT OFF for an unimaginable/unanswerable amount of time.
Such a bad situation that "usually normal people" become irrational and desperate. (Natural disasters like Katrina or an earthquake) IT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With such risks, why? Why? WHY???
No one in their right mind should let their child without ADULT SKILLS/REASONING roam this planet further than visually/verbal necessary ALONE in todays world.
IMO cell phones are a false sense of security.
If this is your main mode of communication with your child, you have just placed all of your eggs in one basket of technology that is very fickle and undependable.
I worked with the URC after Katrina. BELIEVE ME, cell phones are the very worst sources of reliable
communication after a serious disaster. Even with the expected disasters like tornadoes and flash floods.
They just don't get people in touch with each other due to overload issues and knocked out lines/towers.
If any parent wants to ensure 24/7 communication with their child buy them a SAT phone but that still might not work in a situation regarding National security. The government owns the rights at those times to
control that traffic.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/14/2008 1:44:23 AM
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Melitac
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After Katrina there were no cell phone towers/signals sometimes for about 75 to 100 miles inland. People in the MS gulf area had to go as far as past Hattiesburg or Jackson Mississippi to get cell phone signals.
(this was for perhaps about 10 to 14 days).
Even after 5 months I had to be sure to be right ON hwy 55 in Gulfport to get a vague signal.
I saw people that had not reached local family (within 10 miles of each other) for WEEKS.
These people TODAY will tell anyone to never rely on telephones, radios, TV, internet or ANY kind of technology to reach loved ones in case of a serious tragedy.
9/11 was an unforseen tragedy. The Tsunami was. Tornadoes are. Earthquakes are. Terrorist attacks are.
You name it.
Your loved one could easily be seperated from you in SO MANY unforseen ways.
The question IS;
Is your loved one/child equipped to live alone, unprotected, in a possible violent situation WITHOUT YOU?
And if you can say that your child of aged "____" is so very able to handle it, then I say you are in DENIAL.
As an almost 50 year old mother, I was frightened and cringed when gunshots rang out and screaming on the streets happened.
And this was after an "expected disaster"; Hurricane Katrina.
I couldn't imagine a child alone during a terrorist attack or a tornado or an earthquake.
Not even my 24 year old son that is a soldier....He went through WAR, but he still calls me when
the thunderstorms come around. 
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/14/2008 2:08:10 AM
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DenimDiva
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From: CA
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We can't protect our children from everything. We must do what we can to help them to protect themselves.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/14/2008 2:25:01 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
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I think I already agreed with you......
What do you mean?????
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/14/2008 8:24:38 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Joined: 4/4/2005
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I think there are some things situations that we really can't prepare our children to handle. What kind of training do you put your kids through in case of a 9-11 or a Katrina? I think our energies would be best spent praying for their protection.
If the subway legally allows 8-year olds to ride by themselves, then the mother probably could not be charged with neglect if anything happened to her child. However, I still do not think it's wise to do so. Our local library allows 8-year olds to stay by themselves, but I'm not leaving them in a public place alone just because I can.
When I was a kid, I used to tie up my little sister and leave her a closet. I told her I was doing it for her own good--so that if she was ever kidnapped, she'd know how to escape. I got in big trouble when my mom found out. Just because you put a kid in a risky situation does not necessarily prepare them for trouble on down the road.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/14/2008 9:55:41 AM
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agapetos
Posts: 5575
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From: This side of the lil duck pond!
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quote:
I would not have given my child a cell phone either...but not because I was afraid of them losing it....rather because it could be a distraction to the child (who would be worried about losing it) as well as the fact that they can be "mugger magnets". The phone itself could have put the child in danger.
She made sure the child had plenty of funds (hidden) in the event of needing a phone call. Is there any reason why a mobile phone couldn't be hidden too? In all honesty, if I were to leave a child to find their own way home, I'd make sure they had experience of looking after money and a mobile phone (and using it) correctly so that it wasn't a novelty and a 'distraction'.
If children aren't used to looking after money or mobile phones, yes, they may well worry about losing them. They need to learn to take care of these things so they can be trusted with them when they are on their own.
_____________________________
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
My blog
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/14/2008 10:04:54 AM
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Ellie-Mae
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Our phone is a little trac phone. I think that it cost us $16 plus minutes. I send it with my kids when they go somewhere. A couple of my kids have little pockets on the inside of their jackets that are made for cell phones. I keeps the phones quite safe. I REALLY don't want to loose it, but who cares about a few bucks when it comes to my children? THAT is a risk worth taking.
_____________________________
Isaiah 40:29
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
W2D1
292 more miles to go!
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/14/2008 10:38:33 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5119
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
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quote:
if I were to leave a child to find their own way home, I'd make sure they had experience of looking after money and a mobile phone (and using it) correctly so that it wasn't a novelty and a 'distraction'.
There you go! Life experience! 
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