Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (Full Version)

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Sunnymom -> Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 8:41:53 AM)

From The Sun
quote:


I left my 9-year-old at Bloomingdale’s (the original one) a couple weeks ago. Last seen, he was in first floor handbags as I sashayed out the door.

Bye-bye! Have fun!

And he did. He came home on the subway and bus by himself.

Was I worried? Yes, a tinge. But it didn’t strike me as that daring, either. Isn’t New York as safe now as it was in 1963? It’s not like we’re living in downtown Baghdad.

Anyway, for weeks my boy had been begging for me to please leave him somewhere, anywhere, and let him try to figure out how to get home on his own. So on that sunny Sunday I gave him a subway map, a MetroCard, a $20 bill, and several quarters, just in case he had to make a call.

No, I did not give him a cell phone. Didn’t want to lose it. And no, I didn’t trail him, like a mommy private eye. I trusted him to figure out that he should take the Lexington Avenue subway down, and the 34th Street crosstown bus home. If he couldn’t do that, I trusted him to ask a stranger. And then I even trusted that stranger not to think, “Gee, I was about to catch my train home, but now I think I’ll abduct this adorable child instead.”

Long story short: My son got home, ecstatic with independence.

Long story longer, and analyzed, to boot: Half the people I’ve told this episode to now want to turn me in for child abuse. As if keeping kids under lock and key and helmet and cell phone and nanny and surveillance is the right way to rear kids. It’s not. It’s debilitating — for us and for them.


So what do ya'll think of her methods? And what do you do to teach your child how to deal with getting separated from their parents, or being in a bad situation with an adult, or how to get help in an emergency...?



CoeurdeLeon_ -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 9:05:18 AM)

I agree with her philosophy. Kids need to be able to think on their feet and get themselves home from wherever they are, both physically and metaphorically. They need the confidence and experience that comes from doing that. I think she's absolutely correct in her attitude.

However, I don't think I'd have the guts to do it the way she did it or at the child's age that she did it. Granted, I live in a tiny little town so NYC seems like a much bigger, scarier place to me than it undoubtedly does to someone who lives there. I have to give her the benefit of the doubt. I really don't think she'd put her child into a situation that she considered to be a likely danger. Most people don't.

I've taught my kids that, if they need help, to ask police or a person at work in a shop. If they have to choose a stranger to solicit help from, choose a mom with kids.



W.O.F. -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 9:08:51 AM)

It sounds like HE was ready for this adventure...she didn't foist it on him. It sounds like they had taken the train home several times (consider this is NY city and very few people OWN cars...they use public transport there!) together. It also sounds like they had probably covered all the "what ifs".

He was well prepared...he had a map, money, phone money as well as a card for the subway fare. He was better prepared than he probably would be in an emergency.

I think that she did a good thing. While she did not "trail" him...she knew about when to expect him home. She prepared him for this adventure...and he was 'ready'. I probably would have trailed my kid from a distance...lol....but I think that this was a good thing to do...he can now, with confidence, handle getting himself home, without fear, if they are every accidentally seperated.

I know people are like...what if someone had taken him...but stranger abduction accounts for VERY VERY few abductions!

In fact, according to the Criminal Justice Report for New York State in 2002, less than one percent of all missing children were considered abductions, and most of them turned out to be family abductions...and 92% of the missing children were 13 and over and most of them were runaways.

I don't think this was abuse...I think it was part of training her child on WHAT to do IF something happened.

Interestingly enough...a lot of 9 year olds ride the subway or buses alone in NYC....from school, etc. and no one ever thinks twice about it......



Kat_D -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 10:23:13 AM)

Your asking the wrong person, Sunnymom. I am the Mom who wouldn't let her girls walk to school until they were in the 7th grade, and then they had to call me the minute they got there. I am the Mom who broke her neck to get home every day to ensure that they never came home to an empty house after school until they were in high school. We also never let anyone babysit them except family...I could go on, but you get the drift.

So, while I understand this mother's desire to teach her child responsibility, there is no possible way I ever would have done such a thing. If she had been wrong and he really hadn't been ready, the consequences could have been disastrous and I never would have taken that chance with my children. I found her comment that she didn't give him a cell phone because she didn't want him to lose it very telling. So, she'd rather lose her son than her cell?

My daughter was recently in New York and went for a run in central park. She got lost and said it was a pretty frightening experience...and she's a adult.

Yes, I was extremely overprotective...I admit it, but if the "better safe than sorry" motto ever applied in my life...it was with my children.



IonMoon -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 11:12:31 AM)

The major flaw I see in her theory is that it wasn't a safe thing to do in 1963, either!

I believe in giving kids independence- incrementally. I believe that amount of independence was a little much for a 9 yo. I know they can do it- I work in a large city and see kids navigating alone all the time- and I know that most of the time, statistically, it will be fine- but there are going to be situations- not a lot of them- that they will not have the experience or knowledge or resources to handle safely.

I know this, because, I, a grown adult, with a cell phone, run into at least a few each month.

It is like seat belts. Yes, most of the time, if you let your kid ride in the car without one he will get home safe. But the damage that can be caused by that one time (which you have no way to predict) is worth buckling them in every other time.

Tara P



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 12:07:52 PM)

Ummm...well, the basic idea sure.

But a 9 year old, a subway, New York City, alone?

Nope. [&:]



Mrs.X -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 12:17:52 PM)

I completely agree with Tara P. Sure, maybe could find his way home just fine, but what if someone grabbed him, would the mass of people even notice? My kids won't be going anywhere alone with eachother until Timmy is 11 and Jimmy is 9, at least, and they MUST be together.

When I was 7, I used to ride MUNI (San Francisco bus system) to school by myself. My mom would get me on the train, but I was on there by myself for 12 stops, then I would get off at my stop and walk 6 blocks alone to school. If my mom could have had it another way, she would have. But, she had to take a different bus right after me to get to work ontime. We moved to the 'burbs after a man asked me to get off at his stop to help him look for his puppy who got lost. I knew exactly what he wanted and told the bus driver. My mom taught me well, but I couldn't help think later that would anyone notice on that packed bus if he would have picked me up and put his hand over my mouth and took me off the bus...probably not. He was white like me....coulda been a dad dealing with a cranky child.



Martachoo -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 12:28:09 PM)

I like her idea but I don't think I can do it. At the very least she should have given him a cell phone. May be it's different in the city but here in the suburbs of NYC where we live, it's sometimes difficult to find a pay phone. I don't think it's child abuse.. but I wouldn't do it. The most I would do is send my 10 year old to the corner store to buy milk! I can't relax until he's back![:o]



IonMoon -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 1:47:22 PM)

I rode the school bus as a kid, daily, same bus in a town where everyone knew everyone, and even then, there were situations that came up- a kid falls asleep on the bus and ends up at the dispatch, a kid gets on the wrong bus, a kid misses his stop- and even with the safe guards in place on a school bus, kids end up hurt or dead.

You know... my kids are 16.5 and 19. And I still don't let my dd16.5 walk anywhere in our small town by herself- and I would rather my ds didn't (though he does sometimes- esp with the dog). But even though he is an adult, I don't let him walk anywhere late at night. They at least have to have a friend with them, for Christina's reason: if something happened and they were alone, most likely no one would notice.

For instance, I still don't know what happened, but last we were in WalMart parking lot. A row or two behind us, we heard a woman scream. We all looked at eachother and shrugged. We were driving out of the parking lot a minute later, and a police car and ambulance zoomed in! I felt awful. Something serious might have been happening within a few yards of us that maybe we could have helped with, and here we are shrugging it off.

Tara P



manda59 -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 2:50:32 PM)

What's a subway?

Over here the subway it's an underground tunnel (with steps down to it) that helps you cross the road safely.

Over there is it the actual underground railway?



zoebob -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 3:16:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59

What's a subway?

Over here the subway it's an underground tunnel (with steps down to it) that helps you cross the road safely.

Over there is it the actual underground railway?

Yes it is

As to the OP. I probably wouldn't do it in NY City. However, in the small town where we lived for several years my kids walked to school on their own. It was about 6 blocks. DD1 did it in K-1 by herself and DD2 with her when they were in 2nd/K. I didn't really have a choice. This town didn't offer bussing. I didn't have a car. There were no families around me that had kids at the school. When DD1 started DS was 9 months old. We walked with her for the first couple weeks. However, I knew that once snow fell (probably by the end of Oct) that I couldn't push DS in a stroller through the snow and he was too heavy to carry. Also that would have been a difficult walk for 3 yr old DD2 in the snow. I did have safeguards in place. I watched until she turned the corner. From there it was only 1 block until she could see the school. If she did not arrive at school by the time school started her teacher called me to say she wasn't there. I used that policy for all 3 years they were in PS. If they weren't home by a reasonable time I called their teacher.



IonMoon -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 3:19:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59
What's a subway?

Over here the subway it's an underground tunnel (with steps down to it) that helps you cross the road safely.

Over there is it the actual underground railway?


Yes- underground railway... We don't have your kind of subway- not in my neck of the woods, at least.

Tara P



manda59 -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 3:27:36 PM)

Thanks! Over here we just call it "the Underground".[:)]



Sunnymom -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 3:58:00 PM)

I agree that small controlled tests of our kids' ability to cope on their own are good. But the field trip the author's son took through NYC? That's more than I could ever do without going out of my mind.



Sideways -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 4:02:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

Your asking the wrong person, Sunnymom. I am the Mom who wouldn't let her girls walk to school until they were in the 7th grade, and then they had to call me the minute they got there. I am the Mom who broke her neck to get home every day to ensure that they never came home to an empty house after school until they were in high school. We also never let anyone babysit them except family...I could go on, but you get the drift.

My daughter was recently in New York and went for a run in central park. She got lost and said it was a pretty frightening experience...and she's a adult.

Yes, I was extremely overprotective...I admit it, but if the "better safe than sorry" motto ever applied in my life...it was with my children.


Do you think your over protectiveness helped to cultivate an adult daughter who was frightened when she got lost in New York? I think parents who give their children age appropriate challenges help to create confident young adults who can handle being alone, lost, etc.

I went into downtown Chicago alone when I was 22, and I did find myself alone at Grant Park about half an hour before sunset, but I got out of there and handled it fine. My grandmother was terrified and amazed that I would go into Chicago alone like that.

I don't know if I'd sent a nine year old off alone on the subway, but a child who lives in a major city had better be able to handle themselves and at a pretty early age.

I think "better safe than sorry" can have long term, negative consequences for children. Not always, some over protected children turn out just fine, but some are severely handicapped long into their adult life.



Sunnymom -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 4:11:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnymom

So what do ya'll think of her methods? And what do you do to teach your child how to deal with getting separated from their parents, or being in a bad situation with an adult, or how to get help in an emergency...?

To address more of the purpose of the OP- some of the things I do with my kids is send them into the grocery store/WalMart for a few items while I stand outside. My kids always have a cell phone on them, so I don't see the point of taking that away just to see if they know how to find a pay phone- which are getting rarer all the time. They also know how to find help- avoid men who are dressed like policeman, and find the nearest cashier or mother with children. When we walk through the store, I'll give them hypothetical situations, and we talk about what they should do. I like making if fun instead of fearful, so sometimes the scenario involves hostile aliens. [8D]



karlie -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 4:19:16 PM)

quote:

No, I did not give him a cell phone. Didn’t want to lose it.

Sooooo, she was fine with leaving her child in that situation, but she didn't want to lose her cell phone??? I will never understand that mentality.

quote:

Yes, I was extremely overprotective...I admit it, but if the "better safe than sorry" motto ever applied in my life...it was with my children.

I'm with you!

Ready or not, I would never have left my nine year old in that situation alone, not for any reason. I think that's one of the most irresponsible things I've ever read. I don't care how smart or ready a child is, predators are everywhere just looking for such an opportunity. No nine year old is a match for a determined pervert.

I agree that kids need to learn independence and how to handle themselves, but there are better and safer ways to teach them that. My kids do just fine on their own as young women(nearly 20 and 24), They've managed things like joining the Navy, moving 3000 miles from home, driving cross country alone, living on college campus, in apartments in big cites alone, trips to foreign countries, and many other things, and I didn't need to place them at risk to accomplish that.

I don't call it being overprotective...I call it being the parent and doing my job.



Sideways -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 4:30:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: karlie
I don't call it being overprotective...I call it being the parent and doing my job. [/font]


I agree with you, but there is not a single definition for "being a good parent". I lived in Berlin, Germany when I was nine and was sometimes sent off alone on errands that took 1-2 hours. No cell phones, but I was in a safe neighborhood, and I was just fine.



Kat_D -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 4:45:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sideways

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

Your asking the wrong person, Sunnymom. I am the Mom who wouldn't let her girls walk to school until they were in the 7th grade, and then they had to call me the minute they got there. I am the Mom who broke her neck to get home every day to ensure that they never came home to an empty house after school until they were in high school. We also never let anyone babysit them except family...I could go on, but you get the drift.

My daughter was recently in New York and went for a run in central park. She got lost and said it was a pretty frightening experience...and she's a adult.

Yes, I was extremely overprotective...I admit it, but if the "better safe than sorry" motto ever applied in my life...it was with my children.


Do you think your over protectiveness helped to cultivate an adult daughter who was frightened when she got lost in New York? I think parents who give their children age appropriate challenges help to create confident young adults who can handle being alone, lost, etc.

I went into downtown Chicago alone when I was 22, and I did find myself alone at Grant Park about half an hour before sunset, but I got out of there and handled it fine. My grandmother was terrified and amazed that I would go into Chicago alone like that.

I don't know if I'd sent a nine year old off alone on the subway, but a child who lives in a major city had better be able to handle themselves and at a pretty early age.

I think "better safe than sorry" can have long term, negative consequences for children. Not always, some over protected children turn out just fine, but some are severely handicapped long into their adult life.

First of all I was protective because my parents were not. They left me on my own far too much and allowed me to do things way beyond my years and ability to cope with. We lived in a large city and I was riding a city bus to school (20 miles away/transferring twice) by the time I was in the second grade. There were several frighting experiences on those buses that I was in no way equipped to handle. I was also sexually assaulted because they allowed me to babysit overnight at the age of nine. I consequently grew up to be one of the most frightened people you could ever imagine. I was afraid to be alone, afraid to go out at night, afraid of men...I could go on forever.

Secondly, when my girls were growing up, we lived in Los Angeles...in the city. My kids had to cross both Wilshire Blvd and Robertson Blvd. (in case you don't know L.A., two of the busiest streets in the city) to get to school. If we had lived in a small town environment, I might have been more apt to allow them to walk earlier, but we didn't and I wasn't going to chance it.

Thirdly, have you ever been lost in Central Park? It would be a frightening experience for anyone who did not know the city and found themselves in that position. My daughter didn't freak out, she had a level head and did eventually find her way back to her hotel.

Lastly, my girls are now two of the most independent, self sufficient people I know. My eldest (the one who got lost in CP) is an executive with a major company and has traveled all over the world, often alone. She is fearless...and oh, so much healthier than I was as a result of my parent's neglect.



Sunnymom -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 5:02:15 PM)

[sm=wave.gif]Hi guys- it's me, ya' know, the post author?[8D]

Seriously, I think ya'll are making some good points, but the most important thing to remember is to know your environment and to know your child. There are different rules, if you will, for living in the city and living in the sticks. I grew up with a loaded rifle behind my bedroom door, and went hiking for hours with my dog and a machete. These things would not be a good idea nor would they be necessary in Suburbia, USA. And I am sure we all have stories about what our parents did and didn't do and how it affected us.

The article author made some valid observations as well- statistically speaking, kids are more likely to be assaulted by someone they know, and opportunity does not create perverts. Kids are also more likely to fall in the bathroom or choke on a hot dog than be abducted by a stranger, and I doubt anyone here frets when they feed their kid an Oscar Mayer Wiener or make Jr. take a shower.

What would you all consider to be some appropriate 'exercises' to teach kids independence and personal safety?



Kat_D -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 5:24:20 PM)

quote:

Hi guys- it's me, ya' know, the post author?


Sorry, Sunnymom...didn't mean to derail your thread.[sm=blush.gif]



Sunnymom -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 5:34:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

Hi guys- it's me, ya' know, the post author?


Sorry, Sunnymom...didn't mean to derail your thread.[sm=blush.gif]

I just don't want this thread to get personal. I think it more beneficial to talk about various strategies for helping our kids learn how to handle themselves safely than to try to declare a One-Size-Fits-All approach. I have already mentioned some things that I do with my kids, but I'd love to hear ideas from others.



cindybode -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 6:05:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnymom

Seriously, I think ya'll are making some good points, but the most important thing to remember is to know your environment and to know your child. There are different rules, if you will, for living in the city and living in the sticks.


Agreed. My kids know where the rifle is and how to load and shoot, something that makes most city/suburban parents freak out. They know that if you're going outside after dark, take the dog with you in case of unfriendly critters, and other things that city parents would probably never think of. However, they have no idea how to catch a city bus or figure out where said bus goes. They've never had a reason to know.

I need to work with my younger boys on determining direction. It occured to me recently that they often have no idea which way we are headed as we are driving. I think I'm going to deliberately get them lost in the woods this summer and have them find their way out - which, when you think about it, probably isn't much different than the NY City mom who had her son find his way home on the bus. That city mom would probably be terrified to drop her son off in the middle of 5K acres of woods, just like there is no way I'd drop mine off in NYC and tell him to figure it out.



Mrs.X -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 6:09:26 PM)

To get back to topic, I haven't crossed that road yet with my two. My oldest is two and a half and can't comprehend "stranger" or "lost". Julie Agner-Clark (Baby Einstein) and John Walsh (AMW) came out with a video called The Safe Side. My neighbor used this DVD as one of the many ways to teach her daughter about stranger danger.

Sunnymom, I like your idea about making up scenarios while you're at the store. I think I'd probably do something similar to that with my kids. My mom always taught me to go to bus drivers, store clerks and moms with children for help. Another thing she taught me was if I got separated from her in a store, to stay where I am, count to 100 then go to the store clerk if she didn't find me by then. She had me memorize our address and our phone number when I was 3 or 4. I also knew her full name at age 3 and knew how to answer "What is your mommy's name?" I think it's important to teach our kids those things as early as they can understand them. My two year old's chins are almost getting to be too long to ride in the buggy at the store, and I'll probably keep him on a leash until he can understand those thing.



agapetos -> RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone (4/5/2008 6:22:24 PM)

quote:

quote:

No, I did not give him a cell phone. Didn’t want to lose it.
Sooooo, she was fine with leaving her child in that situation, but she didn't want to lose her cell phone??? I will never understand that mentality.
Nor me!

He may have lost a mobile, but it's better losing a mobile than losing a son ~ mobile phones can be location traced.

I was travelling on buses with either my sister or my friend to the big town near where we lived before I was 9 ~ to go to the Saturday morning pictures. Our parents knew where we were going and roughly what time we'd be home. We were taught from a young age to call 999 if we had any problems and our parents weren't around. When we moved to London we frequently walked to/from school on our own (probably over a mile) and I'd go to the pool on my own (walking).



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