what makes you think you are qualified to teach your children?
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what makes you think you are qualified to teach your ch... - 4/5/2008 11:02:50 PM
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ChelseaRae
Posts: 734
Joined: 4/19/2005
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Got your attention didn't I?  
A good friend of mine and I got together over Easter and she decided to express some of her concerns over my desire to homeschool. She doesn't feel that parents who don't have degrees are qualified to teach their children. She also had all of the other silly 'socialization' and 'how will they survive in the real world!?!' concerns but I quickly dispelled those.
This is what she said:
quote:
One thing I did think of regarding certified teachers - yes I would guess that most of teacher's college is about learning teaching strategies, classroom management etc which I would agree, you as your kid's parent would probably be able to handle very well because you know and have raised her/them. However, most teachers also have an undergrad degree and indeed a specific teachable area. Since I have just gone through (almost) four years of university education and am weeks away from getting a degree I can tell you that very little compares to this experience and wealth of knowledge obtained. Yes, in the elementary years the education and teachers are a bit more general if you will, but at the high school level teachers possess "expertise" in a given field that they themselves studied at university, for me it would be animal biology (or I guess just biology in general) and anthropology. I know you might think, well that's nice but I can read up on these topics and look at curricula for appropriate materials to teach with, but quite honestly, I don't think anything can really replicate having a degree. I feel very strongly about this having (almost) completed one - it better be respected and good for something. I realize you have half of a nursing qualification (there's a degree attached to that too I believe) but it's just that, half of it. I'm not trying to sound superior at all because I (almost) have a degree but I think there is tremendous value there that most teachers have. Again, based on what you said I am reasonably confident that you will adequately educate your children.
I love the part where she is reasonably confident my children will get an adequate education. 
I was hoping you wonderful ladies could point me to some websites or studies or some homeschooling statistics? Her ignorance on the subject is obvious and I can see she has done no research to back up what she said, I would like to give her something to think about.
< Message edited by ChelseaRae -- 4/5/2008 11:22:24 PM >
_____________________________
Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. ~G.K. Chesterton
Mary giggling (so cute!!!!)
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RE: what makes you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 12:49:21 AM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 6051
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: WA
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Yeah, poor girl, your stance on homeschooling threatens her entire college education!
You can tell her that my sophomore english class was taught by the metal shop teacher. PS teachers don't necessarily teach in their 'area of expertise'.
And, since the studies show that having more letters after your name doesn't improve your students' success rates, why should we worry?
She has to be a certified teacher because she is teaching other people's children. It's for the parents' peace of mind (although it wouldn't give ME any, that's for sure!). But when you teach your own kids, you already can be reasonably sure of your child's teacher's abilities.
What qualifies me to teach my kids? My love for them, my hope for their future, and the God who gave them to me.
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 10:36:36 AM
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peculiar_lady2
Posts: 11762
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quote:
I realize you have half of a nursing qualification (there's a degree attached to that too I believe) but it's just that, half of it. I'm not trying to sound superior at all because I (almost) have a degree but I think there is tremendous value there that most teachers have.
WOW...I guess it's a good thing you don't need the rest of that nursing degree to give birth to your child....or to teach them to reach for things with their hands....or to teach them to crawl, walk, talk, use the bathroom, and a whole myriad of things that you teach them BEFORE the school steps in to "teach" them the right way!!!!! I can't say where, but isn't it something like you learn more in the first two or three years of life then you will ever learn in the rest of it? (Can't point that one out...just heard it somewhere...but it's definitely one for you to look into if this is how she really feels!!!).
A degree is a $10,000 (or so) piece of paper saying someone else taught you something in that area...that doesn't stop YOU from already knowing some of that stuff. With all I have gone through and had to learn just with having little kids (UNDER school age even!!!) I know more then most nurses I have run into in the places we have taken our kids (no offense Cindy). You don't have to have a degree to know what you know...and you don't have to have a teacher to learn. That's the biggest thing....people that don't understand homeschool don't get that. They think if someone is learning then they must be being taught...not necessarily. My kids learn FAR MORE when I am NOT teaching them then they learn when I am trying to...and the WAY they learn is something that sticks with them for longer because they picked up on it themselves...taught themselves...instead of being "preached at" they are becoming the teacher and pupil themselves. Lessons learned while going through the fire of things are much more powerful then those taught from a book or someone else's mouth.
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Proud Army Wife
Mom to Jake, Hannah, Emma, and Jack
Baby Boy due June 25, 2008
"God has a plan for your life...and so does everybody else." ~said by Doinkdom
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 11:15:43 AM
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MrsDC
Posts: 185
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From: Sinaloa, Mexico
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From your friend's comments:
quote:
Yes, in the elementary years the education and teachers are a bit more general if you will, but at the high school level teachers possess "expertise" in a given field that they themselves studied at university...
First response: IMO it takes a WHOLE lot more energy and finesse to teach elementary grades than highschool and IF you do elementary well, high school is a breeze.
Second response: She has GOT to be kidding!!!! Sorry. Taking a deep breath. Exhaling. One more time. Sipping a sip of coffee. Now. Ready. When I was in 10th grade, I had a "darling" music teacher who was fresh out of college and full of great ideas about how her music class should be run, how the choir should practice and what "extras" we should do. She had a serious problem though: she couldn't read music worth beans. I was 15 and had been studying music theory and composition intensely for two years because I wanted to be a professional choir director. Rather than accepting help in an area in which she OBVIOUSLY struggled, she knocked my grade down every time I corrected her. By the end of the first quarter, I had a D in choir.
In short, studying a subject for 4 years doesn't make an expert. If you have the desire to learn and a passion for your children, you can teach them everything they need to know from birth onward.
As far as documented proof, there are enough "adult children of homeschoolers" around that there should be plenty of documentation if you really need it.
That was my 14 cents worth!
-- Rebecca
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*Just pretend I have a great signature with some profound statement and great graphics.*
My Homeschooling in Mexico Blog! NEW ministry blog!
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 1:11:44 PM
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cynthia
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
A degree is a $10,000 (or so) piece of paper saying someone else taught you something in that area...that doesn't stop YOU from already knowing some of that stuff.
More like $100,000. That is part of the issue. If a person pays one hundred thousand dollars to get a college education and a mom at home can do a better job than the person who holds that $100,000 degree, then what was the point of all those years of hard work and money spent? That seems to be what ChelseaRae's friend is asking. She is shocked that a parent, with no degree could be qualified to teach. It sad really. She put all this time and money into something that she apparently feels is being questioned by the very fact that someone thinks they could do that same job with no degree at all. But it is not the same job. Teaching our children at home is not the same as being a classroom teacher. Nor is being a classroom teacher the same as teaching one's children at home. Yes, both involve the instruction of children, but the whole paradygm is different.
However, what she fails to note is that being able to get a teaching position is based on her college education. You cannot get a teaching position without a degree, except in some private schools.
_____________________________
"A tax supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state."
-- Isabel Patterson
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 2:06:54 PM
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peculiar_lady2
Posts: 11762
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From: Between Hither and Yon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
quote:
ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
A degree is a $10,000 (or so) piece of paper saying someone else taught you something in that area...that doesn't stop YOU from already knowing some of that stuff.
More like $100,000. That is part of the issue.
yeah sorry....missed a zero there in typing.
_____________________________
Proud Army Wife
Mom to Jake, Hannah, Emma, and Jack
Baby Boy due June 25, 2008
"God has a plan for your life...and so does everybody else." ~said by Doinkdom
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 2:08:43 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7249
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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It is truly outrageous what a college education costs today. I can understand going through all that and then feeling upset to think that it may not be necessary. I think she's wrong though. A college education today can be very important in earning potential. Most colleges offer scholarships and there is other help as well. All in all, one should not come away owing $100,000, but it is still expensive.
< Message edited by cynthia -- 4/6/2008 2:15:26 PM >
_____________________________
"A tax supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state."
-- Isabel Patterson
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 3:08:54 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7249
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
IMO, you really cannot compare teaching in a classroom vs. teaching your own children at home. They are too different to compare.
I agree. My dad has asked me, over and over, if I would like to be a school teacher. No way. Some people are cut out for that sort of thing, but I am not one of them. I do fine with my own three children, but to teach a group of children from all different backgrounds and lifestyles, plus their own personalities and learning styles, would be a disaster for me. It doesn’t sound like fun at all. It is not my passion. It is, however, my passion to see my children well prepared for adulthood with a firm foundation in faith and a liberal arts education. I can do that better than the schools can simply because they are my children and I know what they need as individuals because God has spoken to me about each of them.
ChelseaRae, I would suggest you let your friend read this thread, but she may be upset to see part of her e-mail on the internet. She also would not be allowed to post in this thread.
_____________________________
"A tax supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state."
-- Isabel Patterson
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 3:19:07 PM
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peculiar_lady2
Posts: 11762
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
IMO, you really cannot compare teaching in a classroom vs. teaching your own children at home. They are too different to compare.
I agree. My dad has asked me, over and over, if I would like to be a school teacher. No way. Some people are cut out for that sort of thing, but I am not one of them. I do fine with my own three children, but to teach a group of children from all different backgrounds and lifestyles, plus their own personalities and learning styles, would be a disaster for me. It doesn’t sound like fun at all. It is not my passion. It is, however, my passion to see my children well prepared for adulthood with a firm foundation in faith and a liberal arts education. I can do that better than the schools can simply because they are my children and I know what they need as individuals because God has spoken to me about each of them
my mom is the opposite Cynthia. She has taught classes in church since before I was born and is a great organizer and teacher...can handle big class rooms full of kids very well. She homeschooled us ONE year, and I was her undoing.....lol. She decided after that one year that it was best to send us to Private school...so she prayed for God to move us to an area that was close to a good Christian school...and He did.
_____________________________
Proud Army Wife
Mom to Jake, Hannah, Emma, and Jack
Baby Boy due June 25, 2008
"God has a plan for your life...and so does everybody else." ~said by Doinkdom
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 3:50:31 PM
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cindybode
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From: Northwest PA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
[color=#I know more then most nurses I have run into in the places we have taken our kids (no offense Cindy).
None taken. You're right. My fellow nurses and I know what applies to most kids. You know what applies to your kids.
The same thing applies to teaching.
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If you lock in any creature, from rats to chickens to pigs to people, 10 to 30 or more in a box and force feed them you'll create little monsters. Confinement Education School Operations (CESOs) just don't compare to naturally pastured free-ranged kids.
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 6:49:46 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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Welcome to motherhood, Chelsea. No matter what you do, someone won't like it. If you were going to send her to school, there would be certain types of homeschoolers that would judge you for that (I am pro home schooling, but as I believe that the whole point of homeschooling is that parents have the right to decide what is best for THEIR kid(s), that includes the fact that parents that decide NOT to homeschool, have just as much right to decide that as a homeschooling family has a right to homeschool).
You'll just have to learn to say things like, "My husband and I feel led by the Lord that this is what's best for OUR family, and you are welcome to your opinion, but this is what we are going to do, and we are at peace with it."
_____________________________
And the Lord will continually guide you, and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and give strength to your bones; And you will be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail. Isaiah 58:11
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 9:03:32 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
Welcome to motherhood, Chelsea. No matter what you do, someone won't like it.
This is so true!
I normally only lurk here and while my kids are in private school I've read about "after schooling" and I feel like that's what I do. Especially with my dd, it takes a lot more than just what's assigned for her to really learn. So I get a lot of useful info here but normally refrain from posting. Two thoughts on this one though...
A teaching degree might be useful in a classroom setting but I've got a BA and some post-graduate work under my belt (never finished) and do not at all feel qualified to homeschool! So I hardly see how someone could definitively say that not having a degree makes you not qualified to homeschool any more than having one does make you qualified - which isn't the case.
But my biggest question/fear about homeschooling is that it's either really good or really bad, IMO. It seems like there's no way to know till it's too late which side you really fall on!
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 9:40:52 PM
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his_chosen
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I did an organized bike ride this afternoon. I ended up doing most of the ride with one guy. We were doing the whole "where do you work" thing. I told him that I home school. He said he works in admissions at the community college. He said he was always impressed with the home school kids. They had their act together, knew what they wanted to do, and rarely needed remedial courses. The proof is in the pudding. Home schooled kids are getting a great education. Don't sweat it when "experts" try to convince you otherwise.
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You have a choice. You can throw in the towel or you can use it to wipe the sweat off your face.
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 9:52:07 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
Welcome to motherhood, Chelsea. No matter what you do, someone won't like it.
This is so true!
I'm not even a mom, and I figured that out!
_____________________________
And the Lord will continually guide you, and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and give strength to your bones; And you will be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail. Isaiah 58:11
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 11:17:17 PM
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sen10tious
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I think having a teaching certificate can often make parents even worse home educators—at least for their first year or so of homeschooling until they understand the differences. Really, new teachers have so much jargon floating around their heads that it interferes with relating to kids.
Have you ever read some of this stuff the teaching "candidates" are assigned? It has words like, well, 'candidates.' And initiatives, merit, transgressive, objectives, cognitive, performance assessments, rubrics, matrices, implement (as a verb), assessment, outcomes, criteria, facilitate, developmentally appropriate, instructional practices; and I could go on but …why? You get the point.
Seriously, if the following paragraph makes perfect sense to you, than you are too "certified-teacherized" to relate to a kid as an individual human being:
Each pointer, if relevant for inclusion in a student's learning experiences, would productively incorporate the development of explicit criteria to identify the activity's key aspects, describe what students are expected to do, and guide judgements.
Or this one:
curriculum should build on this intuitive and concrete foundation …
This is from the website for a popular public school math text--
"emphasizes the application of mathematics to real world situations. … The curriculum also provides numerous suggestions for incorporating mathematics into daily classroom routines"
Notice that "daily classroom routines" are "real-world situations" for children in classrooms.
From a call for professional papers: growing recognition of the importance of teacher professional development has been accompanied by increased attention by researchers, practitioners, and policy-makers.
Now that one is scary because it is so specific about who is going to control the teachers!
Someone linked this a while back and it fits this discussion because I will readily admit: I am not prepared, nor have I been indoctrinated enough to teach THIS kind of math.
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/6/2008 11:51:37 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 6051
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From: WA
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quote:
"emphasizes the application of mathematics to real world situations. … The curriculum also provides numerous suggestions for incorporating mathematics into daily classroom routines"
Do you realize that the above paragraph tacitly admits that public schools are NOT the 'real world'?!
I think I need it on a bumper sticker...
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/7/2008 12:45:55 AM
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cynthia
Posts: 7249
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sen10tious
Someone linked this a while back and it fits this discussion because I will readily admit: I am not prepared, nor have I been indoctrinated enough to teach THIS kind of math.
Some of those quotes were scary, but the link was the worst. This is in my state. Ask my why my kids are homeschooled and being taught math by me rather than a trained teacher.
_____________________________
"A tax supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state."
-- Isabel Patterson
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/7/2008 11:46:01 AM
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Jenny-Fair
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From: WA
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Yup, I've seen both those curricula here...I think 'magic 7' must be what they used with my little sister. Ugh. I saw the TERC section on finding the area and circumference of circles...along with an extremely confused student. I was trying to help but NOWHERE in the book does it give the formulas for circle geometry. No....you have to 'discover' it on your own.
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/7/2008 11:49:29 AM
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cynthia
Posts: 7249
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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No wonder my neighbor kids were so confused in math. I had to start out a high schooler in Math-U-See Foundations. He read through the entire book and video, then declared that he was amazed at what he learned from an elementary school math program. Now I see why.
_____________________________
"A tax supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state."
-- Isabel Patterson
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RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach you... - 4/7/2008 11:52:38 AM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 6051
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: WA
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A-yup. I can remember Bill Cosby joking about 'new math' and I didn't understand...but I must've missed it in grade school, and so I had no idea what 'new math' was. Now I know...and we are very happily old-fashioned in our math studies!
That Lattice thing...I've seen it before but not understood (and it's so big and haphazard looking to me even now!). Honestly I don't know why people are so focused on teaching kids 'tricks' to math when real old-fashioned math is the easiest way to do things.
And I love the book's assertion that you can always use a calculator 
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