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Evolution says nothing about God.

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The claim of this thread is that “there are no non-religious arguments against evolution”. Jack and I have both disproved that claim.

Not yet you haven't. Nobody has yet on this thread. Argue this with Jack-- he helped bring this to light himself.

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ORIGINAL: unclemonkey

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On this basis, it seems that evolution theory is acceptable to many irrespective of their religious beliefs,

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China? Is the scientific validity of a concept determined by how many people believe it?

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ORIGINAL: miessemusic

Sir,

You should check out Ben Stein's movie/documentary "Expelled: No intelligence allowed"

In select theaters this Friday, the 18th.

Just a suggestion.

Here's the link:

www.expelledthemovie.com

God Bless.

Rick

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ORIGINAL: miessemusic

And contrary to what evolutionists/atheists try to push, the theory of evolution is not a fact, it's a philosophical assumption, and always will be.

But Jesus however isn't an assumption. He is the Truth.

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ORIGINAL: miessemusic

So the atheists/evolutionists have already devised a propaganda counter attack on Expelled heh?

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Also, after watching the movie, check out http://expelledexposed.com

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ORIGINAL: miessemusic
An atheist cannot be anything but an evolutionist. If he/she were the exact opposite (believing in the Creator and His intelligent Design), then he/she wouldn't be deemed the title: ATHEIST

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Also, after watching the movie, check out http://expelledexposed.com

Wow, some major factual errors on that site, especially about eugenics. Pretty sad for a site created by the National Center for Science Education.

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ID is even sold as a theory that doesn't require or infer a god. There's not supposed to be anything religious about ID... or at least thats what they say to try and sneak it into the science classes. If you take ID at face value, the way its proponents try and pitch it to schools, you could very well be atheist and believe ID. But we do know that sales pitch is mostly a farce.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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ID is even sold as a theory that doesn't require or infer a god. There's not supposed to be anything religious about ID... or at least thats what they say to try and sneak it into the science classes. If you take ID at face value, the way its proponents try and pitch it to schools, you could very well be atheist and believe ID. But we do know that sales pitch is mostly a farce.

Yeah, we are secretly trying to take over the minds of students so we can force them to be irreducibly complex - nefarious, I know, but we have to make a living, you know?

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can't speak for you, but its Discovery Institutes documented mission. Thats not really disputable. Maybe they don't speak for the whole movement, but they are certainly the biggest single entity out there pushing ID.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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can't speak for you, but its Discovery Institutes documented mission. Thats not really disputable. Maybe they don't speak for the whole movement, but they are certainly the biggest single entity out there pushing ID.

I already confessed the secret plot; to make students intelligent designers - as we all know, that is completely contrary to current policy in the American education establishment.

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I see what you did there. Unfortunately, as bad as our schools are, DI and creationists just try and make them worse

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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I see what you did there. Unfortunately, as bad as our schools are, DI and creationists just try and make them worse

I agree, because questions lead to doubt, and doubt leads to skepticism, and skepticism leads critical thinking, and that stops students from mindlessly parroting what they are spoon fed.

Wouldn't want that would we?

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ORIGINAL: drj11

I'm all for introducing skepticism and critical thinking into the classroom... but that still doesn't mean ID or creationism have a place there.

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Pretty sad for a site created by the National Center for Science Education.

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ID is even sold as a theory that doesn't require or infer a god. There's not supposed to be anything religious about ID... or at least thats what they say to try and sneak it into the science classes.

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If you take ID at face value, the way its proponents try and pitch it to schools, you could very well be atheist and believe ID.

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Well, I rather like Ken Miller's idea about text book warning labels. When the Kansas school board decided to put warning labels on their science textbooks that read something to the effect of 'Evolution is just a theory, and its probably not true, its for godless heathens, blah blah blah', Ken said the warning labels didn't go far enough. In his eyes, those warning labels told kids that we are absolutely certain about everything else in that book, except evolution. His warning label would have told kids to treat everything in the science book with skepticism and open-mindedness.

I'm all for introducing skepticism and critical thinking into the classroom... but that still doesn't mean ID or creationism have a place there.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
See, it's things like this that make realize that evolutionists either don't know what they are talking about, or just make things up and believe them.

The 'warning labels' as you call them were a sticker put on biology text books by the Alabama State Board of Education. The final form read as follows:

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There are many unanswered questions about the origin of life. With the explosion of new scientific knowledge in biochemical and molecular biology and exciting new fossil discoveries, Alabama students may be among those who use their understanding and skills to contribute to knowledge and to answer many unanswered questions. Instructional materials chosen to implement the content standards within this course of study should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.

Nothing in there about evolution being 'probably not true' or the 'its for godless heathen' etc.

So your factually wrong mischaracterization of what happened bears no resemblance to the reality of the matter, and you should really spend a little time investigating statements before you make them.

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This textbook discusses evolution, a controversial theory some scientists present as a scientific explanation for the origin of living things, such as plants, animals and humans.

No one was present when life first appeared on earth. Therefore, any statement about life's origins should be considered as theory, not fact.

The word "evolution" may refer to many types of change. Evolution describes changes that occur within a species. (White moths, for example, may "evolve" into gray moths.) This process is microevolution, which can be observed and described as fact. Evolution may also refer to the change of one living thing to another, such as reptiles into birds. This process, called macroevolution, has never been observed and should be considered a theory. Evolution also refers to the unproven belief that random, undirected forces produced a world of living things.

There are many unanswered questions about the origin of life which are not mentioned in your textbooks, including:

Why did the major groups of animals suddenly appear in the fossil record (known as the Cambrian Explosion)?
Why have no new major groups of living things appeared in the fossil record in a long time?
Why do major groups of plants and animals have no transitional forms in the fossil record?
How did you and all living things come to possess such a complete and complex set of "instructions" for building a living body?
Study hard and keep an open mind. Someday you may contribute to the theories of how living things appeared on earth.

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Well, hey I exaggerated for effect, I thought that was obvious. I'll remember not to next time because you'll accuse me of making stuff up. How is that warning label anything but harmful? Its clearly and specifically mentions evolution the midst of all its dressed up talk about open-mindedness, clearly to put it in kids minds that evolution is a 'shakey theory', specifically... but don't worry about anything else. Here's the previous warning label, that had been running for roughly 5 years, and it will show you exactly what the purpose of all these warning labels is.