RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (Full Version)

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happyhippie -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/10/2008 8:13:32 AM)

Remember David Koresh. He was a cult bu the precedent has been set. Janet Reno branded all fundamentalist Christians as cults. Even Bush's AG has said that people who adhere strictly to the Bible should be monitored. Does anyone honestly think that we are immune from the persecution of Christians that the rest of the world has seen for generations. Even Focus on the Family has capitulated to Canada's Hate Speech Laws and watered down it's Canadian broadcasts. Once the camel's nose is in the tent it is open season. Look the prosperity televangelists the government is targeting. We are heading down a dangerous road when the government decides what is orthodox and what isn't. As far as 14 yr olds marrying that is just a red herring to deflect the issue. there is no proof. As a final note historically 14 was accepted just a relatively short amount of time ago. Even Mary was 13 or 14. I am not advocating it just exposing a red herring.



1love1God1way -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/10/2008 8:45:07 AM)

It's not a red herring. These girls were being sexually abused.

You are comparing apples to oranges.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/10/2008 1:42:45 PM)

quote:

As far as 14 yr olds marrying that is just a red herring to deflect the issue. there is no proof. As a final note historically 14 was accepted just a relatively short amount of time ago.


There is proof and testimony. And this was not merely early marriage or even arranged marriages. This was forced marriage/rape with no opting out. Women who have left have also detailed severe child abuse, and many of the boys of the community are kicked out and abandoned.

This is not simply a "fundamentalist" group. Someone wants to be a snake-handler, fine. Someone wants to be a snake-handler and incorporate public "paddling" of women and minors as part of church discipline, different story. [&:] People want to practice "polyamory" and other perversions, well, sick [:'(], but the government doesn't have much say. But when people are grooming young girls to be 7th or 15th wives, physically abusing them, confining them against their will to a compound, and abandoning boys by the roadside, that's another monster altogether.



HisLamb26 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/10/2008 2:14:19 PM)

My Goodness-That's horrifying.

Who could do that to an infant? [>:]



dramagal -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/10/2008 8:52:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coaster
I really feel sorry for Muslim homicide bombers who think they'll get 72 virgins. I guess it never occurred to them that within approximately 72 days they are not virgins anymore and likely to be fussing about something (because men do often deserve to be fussed at). Is that heaven or hell?


I read a quote from a Muslim "scholar" who said that the virgins would be perpetually virgins - like when they wake up the next day, they're virgins again. No joke.


As to the kids and others taken out, I've been praying for them, and for the people helping them.

3cappucinosmom [sm=thumbsup.gif]



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/10/2008 9:06:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

It's not a red herring. These girls were being sexually abused.

You are comparing apples to oranges.


The reason it is called sexual abuse is because the girls are under the legal age for marriage. I don't know that they are having sex with girls outside of marriage. They are performing marriage ceremonies with under age girls. According to the law, the sexual intercourse of such a union is considered abuse. Evidently their religion allows for marriage at an earlier age than the law of the land allows and they hold their own religious laws higher than the laws of man. The laws of our country don't allow polyandry. Their religion does.

Matthew 22
21They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Acts 5
29Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/10/2008 9:09:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisLamb26

My Goodness-That's horrifying.

Who could do that to an infant? [>:]


Do what to an infant? All I heard was that teen-age boys weren't wanted because they would want to marry the younger girls. But which of us has the facts on this cult? I'd love to see some documentation on what has been going on. I'm a stickler for facts.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/10/2008 9:16:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: happyhippie

Remember David Koresh. He was a cult bu the precedent has been set. Janet Reno branded all fundamentalist Christians as cults.


FLDS aren't fundamentalist Christians. Their beliefs are a perversion of Christianity; they don't even believe in our God!

Can you tell us when and where Janet Reno said that Fundamentalist Christians are a cult? Or did you just hear it and can't remember your source of that alleged accusation?



mb35 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/10/2008 10:03:53 PM)

quote:

FLDS aren't fundamentalist Christians. Their beliefs are a perversion of Christianity; they don't even believe in our God!


Yeah, old joey smith rubbed his magic rocks together and put out press releases - all of a sudden he's greater than Jesus. Like Romney and other LD$'ers, they now openly condemn the practice of polygamy. However, their pedophile prophet had a direct revelation from God - so, that immediately makes all the LD$'ers that disagree a fraud. Although I think the FLDS'ers are even worse than the LD$'ers, at least they aren't hypocrites. But, they're as dumb as those rocks joey smith rubbed together.

They should just leave out the "m" and call them all Morons. For the record, I'm all about religous freedom. I read of lot of various material. However, the history of the LD$ Church (aside from polygamy), can't be overlooked - no matter how hard the LD$'ers try to cover it up!! The history of polygamy is one of disgust - and it's very destructive. Think of all the fun!!!! - your Aunt can be you mother-in-law....your 12 year old neice can be your wife, etc., etc., etc. - that sure makes Christmas dinner a whole lot more comfortable!!

You know, I wish they'd just take the name of the ONE, that being Jesus Christ, out of their name. I know it helps them convert people and validate their religion (by stealing from another religion) - it makes financial sense. But, to place joey smith above Jesus on top of it all.....just makes me sick.



HisLamb26 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/10/2008 10:06:52 PM)

quote:

Do what to an infant?


See 3Capps link.



happyhippie -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/10/2008 11:57:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

quote:

ORIGINAL: happyhippie

Remember David Koresh. He was a cult bu the precedent has been set. Janet Reno branded all fundamentalist Christians as cults.


FLDS aren't fundamentalist Christians. Their beliefs are a perversion of Christianity; they don't even believe in our God!

Can you tell us when and where Janet Reno said that Fundamentalist Christians are a cult? Or did you just hear it and can't remember your source of that alleged accusation?



I remember Rush and other radio hosts playing the soundbite several times after the David Koresh incident. I never said FLDS were Christians. It just scares me when governments get to decide what is true and not true when it comes to religions.



1love1God1way -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/11/2008 2:04:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: happyhippie

I remember Rush and other radio hosts playing the soundbite several times after the David Koresh incident. I never said FLDS were Christians. It just scares me when governments get to decide what is true and not true when it comes to religions.


The government interference had nothing to do with religion.



Annie64 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/11/2008 4:58:07 AM)

I'm glad all those people were rescued. And I agree those kids are going to need a lot of prayer right now. They won't see it as a good thing that happened to them for a long time.

I've been wondering what it is that happens to the boys. I'd heard before about boys being abandoned. What happens to them? Have any been found and rescued? What I read before was years ago, but I thought it said that they were abandoned in the desert, which could be the same as murdering them, if they aren't found. Maybe it isn't that bad, or we'd have heard more about it.

As much as I am glad that this happened, I can actually see happyhippie's point. There are people in the government who don't seem to know the difference between what those people are and Christians. What was happening there was clearly criminal. And it was very right that there was intervention. But isn't it all too possible that one day we Christians could be raided as well? It happens in other countries. This is not to say that those people should have been left alone. It is merely pointing out that perhaps their rescuers aren't the knights in shining armor that they seem to be, or might not remain that way.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/11/2008 7:20:47 AM)

quote:

The reason it is called sexual abuse is because the girls are under the legal age for marriage.


No. It is because they are being forced to marry. There is a difference between a 14 yo girl who wants to marry and her parents sign consent for it, and a 14 yo girl who does not want to be the 8th wife of a dirty old man, but is required to anyway. You can't see a difference?
Sure, Mary was probably a young girl when she had Jesus, but God gave her a *choice*. [;)]

Did y'all hear that they found a bed in the "temple". [:'(]



WormHeart -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/11/2008 9:24:26 AM)

I’m glad those kids got out and I hope they find the missing one soon.

EDITED: Never mind!

Picking a fight, where it is not needed.

WormHeart



EverLearning -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/11/2008 9:19:12 PM)

Being that i am here in texas I get alot of news about this situation. It appears that this cult has been under investigation for around four years now.



sasquash_0 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/11/2008 11:04:43 PM)

I for one do not like how this whole story is being reported in the media. Although it doesn't come as any surprise it still irritates me because it can lead to all kinds of misunderstandings about Christians and Christianity. It also shows me that the reporter doing the story is not very educated or the person handing them the script isn't either.

I was watching a newscast by I think channel 4 or 5 about this and they equated fasting to starving children. Now I realize that in this situation it sounded like extreme fasting that was forced and done for all the wrong reasons. That fact however was never explained in the newscast, they just equaled fasting to starving children and with all the craziness surrounding this event. Now being as Lent just ended I fasted at least from meat for 5 weeks. Many christians from all denominations fast at all times of the year as a means of obedience and spiritual growth. Mostly its just the adults who partake but I know many who encourage their children to learn the practice. However, if you were not aware of this tradition and listening to this newscast you would think fasting=starving and therefore anyone partaking in fasting is crazy. They didn't even give a proper definition of what it means to fast.

There have been many other confusing statements on the AP, CNN and the regular network news as well.



iSERVEaJEW -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/13/2008 9:41:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:

old disgusting perverts


I feel that way too. Kinda like a camp for perverts who produce their own sex slaves.

Do you think that King David was a disgusting pervert? I have no idea whether some of those men involved in that FLDS group were perverted or not, but I'd like to point out that King David had eighteen wives (ten of whom were not free women - concubines). Let's not be so quick to judge.



iSERVEaJEW -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/13/2008 10:03:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
quote:

ORIGINAL: HisLamb26
Well, Gee-there's a surprise! [8D]

In all my years browsing Christian Forums, I have never ONCE seen a female out here promoting polygamy. Or "arguing" for it as "another form of marriage".

Not hard to figure out exactly why that is. [:'(]

I have never seen a Christian of either gender espouse polygamy. [&:]

John and Charles Wesley, had a brother-in-law who was a polygynist. Their sister Martha was married to Reverend Westley Hall and he had more than one wife. Charles Wesley's son, Samuel, was a polygynist as well.

Samuel Wesley's godfather, the Reverend Martin Madan, ministered to women with venereal diseases at the London Lock Hospital and his experiences led him to write, "Thelyphthora; Or, a Treatise on Female Ruin, Its Causes, Effects, Consequences, Prevention, and Remedy". He saw firsthand the terrible effects being discarded had on these women who were often forced into a life of prostitution. After a careful examination of the Bible, he saw that these married men who had seduced women should have married them. He encouraged men to follow the Bible and he hoped that less women would be treated so harshly by the men who seduced them (Exodus 22:16).

Now you've heard of some important evangelists who lived in 18th century England who supported polygyny.



1love1God1way -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/13/2008 1:47:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iSERVEaJEW

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:

old disgusting perverts


I feel that way too. Kinda like a camp for perverts who produce their own sex slaves.

Do you think that King David was a disgusting pervert? I have no idea whether some of those men involved in that FLDS group were perverted or not, but I'd like to point out that King David had eighteen wives (ten of whom were not free women - concubines). Let's not be so quick to judge.


Pretty rough comparison. . .



iSERVEaJEW -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/13/2008 2:08:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:

ORIGINAL: iSERVEaJEW
quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:

old disgusting perverts

I feel that way too. Kinda like a camp for perverts who produce their own sex slaves.

Do you think that King David was a disgusting pervert? I have no idea whether some of those men involved in that FLDS group were perverted or not, but I'd like to point out that King David had eighteen wives (ten of whom were not free women - concubines). Let's not be so quick to judge.

Pretty rough comparison. . .

Is it really? The major difference between King David and the FLDS men is that King David had genuine faith in God. Other than that, his number of wives probably greatly exceeds the average FLDS man. And, given the age that women marry in traditional cultures like ancient Israel I suppose many of his wives were under 18 when he married them.

I wonder what attitude most western Christians would have if they were missionaries in South Africa among the Zulu people? Could you imagine how most of us would react to a tribal man with three wives that we led to faith in the Messiah? How would we deal with a polygynist in our community of faith?

I fear that many of our attitudes are far removed from Scripture.



Darcyjo -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/13/2008 9:51:57 PM)

Sounds like you are excusing their behavior. From the testimony of more than one woman who has escaped this particular cult, there is physical as well as sexual abuse of minor children, not just teenage girls who might be considered adults in other cultures.



iSERVEaJEW -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/13/2008 10:26:49 PM)

No, I am not excusing their behaviour. I'm just pointing out that their conduct isn't much different that King David's with respect to multiple marriages to younger women. Further, I have no personal knowledge that there was any sexual abuse involved. Isn't someone innocent until proved guilty? As a Christian, I am very concerned with fair treatment of all people.



1love1God1way -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/14/2008 1:20:45 AM)

Completely different time, culture, covenant, religion, reason, causation, results. . .



iSERVEaJEW -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/14/2008 1:24:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

Completely different time, culture, covenant, religion, reason, causation, results. . .

That's a very weak statement.



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