RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (Full Version)

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TomTurn -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 6:54:17 AM)

quote:

If some man was sexually active with my little fourteen year old. He would not have the parts to do it again.


Do not take this wrong but in some States your little 14 year old would be considered old enough to decide for herself, even to the point of marriage

But the age of consent in Texas is 17



TomTurn -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 7:08:39 AM)

checking the news this morning

False abuse claim investigated in Texas polygamist raid

Officials say the Texas Rangers are pursuing Rozita Swinton of Colorado as a “person of interest” regarding telephone calls related to the polygamist compound in Eldorado, Texas.

Colorado Springs police confirmed that on Wednesday they arrested Swinton, 33, at her home.

"This arrest stemmed from an incident that occurred in Colorado Springs in February of this year," according to a news release from the Colorado Springs Police Department.

Swinton was transferred to the El Paso Criminal Justice Center in El Paso County, Colorado.

The investigation of Swinton is being headed by the Rangers and was disclosed by the Texas Department of Public Safety Friday just after 6 p.m.

Texas Child Protective Services says it launched a raid on the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints compound earlier in April after receiving an alleged anonymous tip from a 16-year-old girl named "Sarah" who said she was being abused by her 49-year-old husband.

Continued



TomTurn -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 7:12:26 AM)

From the article above

"But he says the sect's belief system "is abusive. The culture is very authoritarian."

and from my earlier post

"Years back I said I did not agree with Waco. I do not agree with this sect. And I do not agree with a lot. Who would agree with child abuse?. But when it comes to an obtrusive government, the fringes are where they will start and if they have to fabricate charges, it is proven they will (Ruby Ridge).

And we are already seeing the case against Christian homeschoolers. How dare you abuse your child like that? To many you are just as bad as these polygamists."



themaestro -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 7:30:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TomTurn

quote:

If some man was sexually active with my little fourteen year old. He would not have the parts to do it again.


Do not take this wrong but in some States your little 14 year old would be considered old enough to decide for herself, even to the point of marriage

But the age of consent in Texas is 17

Or have an abortion without you knowing about it



Consecrated2God -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 7:45:32 AM)

quote:

But when it comes to an obtrusive government, the fringes are where they will start and if they have to fabricate charges, it is proven they will


I don't think they fabricated charges in this instance. If someone was arrested for a false tip, then she's the one who fabricated charges. It was not necessary for her to pretend to be someone she wasn't to sic CPS after someone, anyway, so it's odd that she used that tactic.

I do think they should have been investigated. They were breaking the law. Stellaluna's post makes me a little more comfortable, knowing that the social workers are trying their best to not traumatize these children, but I still think there were ways of breaking up this cult and bringing justice about without having to separate them from their mothers.



TomTurn -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 8:09:55 AM)

quote:

I don't think they fabricated charges in this instance. If someone was arrested for a false tip, then she's the one who fabricated charges. It was not necessary for her to pretend to be someone she wasn't to sic CPS after someone, anyway, so it's odd that she used that tactic.

I do think they should have been investigated. They were breaking the law. Stellaluna's post makes me a little more comfortable, knowing that the social workers are trying their best to not traumatize these children, but I still think there were ways of breaking up this cult and bringing justice about without having to separate them from their mothers.


Understand what you are saying

(the big) but

If it was known they were breaking the law, the authorities, CPS, could have went in a lot sooner than this tip.

All in all something is not in line here and makes me go, ummm.



P31W -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 8:19:12 AM)

Is it just me or do the mothers not appear to be grief stricken?

I don't see eyes so swollen that they are almost closed.

I don't see mothers begging the way I believe I would be.

I don't see mothers helping the authorities uncover the truth.



Consecrated2God -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 8:21:47 AM)

quote:

If it was known they were breaking the law, the authorities, CPS, could have went in a lot sooner than this tip.


CPS usually doesn't act unless there is a tip. It's just the way they do things. The police could have gone in if they had a warrant, but unless there is some sort of evidence they can't just go in there and start investigating.



rcjames -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 10:12:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W

Is it just me or do the mothers not appear to be grief stricken?

I don't see eyes so swollen that they are almost closed.

I don't see mothers begging the way I believe I would be.

I don't see mothers helping the authorities uncover the truth.


I see the mothers as robotic (Stepford wives) brainwashed. They really tke on a "Drink the kool-aid appearance.

Thanks
RC



rcjames -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 10:14:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

quote:

If it was known they were breaking the law, the authorities, CPS, could have went in a lot sooner than this tip.


CPS usually doesn't act unless there is a tip. It's just the way they do things. The police could have gone in if they had a warrant, but unless there is some sort of evidence they can't just go in there and start investigating.


The authorities have had an informant in the compound for a few years, maybe they just now think they have sufficient information to move.

Thsnks
RC



PrincessDonna -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 10:24:05 AM)

The mothers probably started out as the too young brides of much older men. This is all they know, and they think it is what God wants for them because they are so deceived and brainwashed. Why wouldn't they think this lifestyle is good for their children?

I believe the mothers are probably victims in this as well, at least most of them. I do hope they are able to be reunited with their children after getting some help of their own, but think for now, separation is probably best.

I'm not worried about the ramifications of this on Christianity in America. If my church starts building a compound and never letting people leave it and teaching extra-Biblical things, then I'll worry.[;)]



HisLamb26 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 10:47:03 AM)

And if my church starts taking minor females and thinking it a good idea to marry them off to perverted middle aged men, I'll be the first to call CPS myself, AFTER removing myself and my precious daughters faster than you can you say "Boo".



HisLamb26 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 10:48:39 AM)

I happened to see some of the pervs...Oh, sorry-I mean so-called "men" interviewed as well. They don't look much better than the women. One of them had the NERVE to say he thought the age of consent in Texas was 14....[:'(]

Him and his pot belly and bad comb over....I almost wanted to puke right then and there...as if some minor would REALLY want to be that sickos 3rd, 4th or 5th wife.

Get real folks.....these girls are being forced into a life of sexual slavery. There is NO WAY you can justify that.



PrincessDonna -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 10:50:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisLamb26

And if my church starts taking minor females and thinking it a good idea to marry them off to perverted middle aged men, I'll be the first to call CPS myself, AFTER removing myself and my precious daughters faster than you can you say "Boo".


Exactly.



themaestro -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 12:15:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

quote:

If it was known they were breaking the law, the authorities, CPS, could have went in a lot sooner than this tip.


CPS usually doesn't act unless there is a tip. It's just the way they do things. The police could have gone in if they had a warrant, but unless there is some sort of evidence they can't just go in there and start investigating.



Most cps's do not care if the tip is fake or not. Once a call comes in the bureaucrats must investigate and"find" something. We have several homeschool friends who have had fake calls about them. The response from Social services was "Yes ithe tip was fake but we need to verify that these kids are not abused." Then the fishing expedition and thousands in legal fees began



lightshineon -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 1:42:27 PM)

I have seen news reports for years on this behavior, long before this happened. I even seen news reports on the " Lost Boys", a form of abuse in itself. My fourteen year old is innocent sexually I know that as a fact. I live in Oklahoma, and you I believe have to have parental consent under eighteen. What is the difference between rape of the under-age, and being forced to marry an old man, and being raped on your wedding night. The law states children under age, cannot give mutual consent. I do feel sorry for the women, they do noyt know any better, and love their children. This has been going on for too long. Men, women consider how these children feel? I have never had my three daughters begging to go out with even a thirty year old, they consider that old. My quote still stands about missing man parts, if someone like that touched my babies.



jongould -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 7:34:02 PM)

Please try to stay with real facts and not the media hype.

There are 139 women.
There are 127 men.

Just how much polygamy could have been going on considering the ratio of men to women being nearly equal?

Where are the pregnant and abused 12-16 year olds?

If there were any pregnant 12-16 year olds, how does that number compare to the pregnant number of pregnant children in your local high school including the ones who had their pregnancy terminated and the baby killed??

Why does the news media still play the false, “16 year old girl tip line", when the police have confirmed it was in fact 33 year old woman from Colorado?

Why was Ms. Gonzalez right there at the raid with that proud look on her face and BOLD letters painted on her van, "POLYGAMY IS ABUSE TO WOMEN AND CHILDREN!"?

How many men in America, not polygamist, have children from more than one woman? Does the fact that there was no marriage ceremony or a Judge has said it is a divorce make it suddenly okay?

Having more than one wife is not okay any way one cares to slice or dice it; however, the woman and children need to be cared for regardless of the wrongs that may have happened; this is NOT what is happening in San Angelo, Texas. The Children need their mothers AND fathers. It is NOT an impossible task; too be able to assure that the children will be safe WITH their natural Mothers and Fathers. It has been happening for years all across America.

And when the News Mongers talk about the children were being taught that having children was okay, how it that any worse than the countless television programs telling teens that it is okay that to experiment sexually in the early teen year?

Anyone not smelling those rotten winds emanating from San Angelo Texas simply has no sense of smell. Sure some see LDS, polygamist, or CULT and they lose all sense of reason. Like those few words make the atrocities the billions of our tax dollars are and will be paying for are suddenly okay. Who will benefit from those Billions of dollars? Certainly not those poor babies and children; they won’t even see 1% of 1% of it.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 8:14:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W

Is it just me or do the mothers not appear to be grief stricken?

I don't see eyes so swollen that they are almost closed.

I don't see mothers begging the way I believe I would be.

I don't see mothers helping the authorities uncover the truth.


You are right. I'm glad there are some sensible people posting to this thread.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 8:16:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

quote:

If it was known they were breaking the law, the authorities, CPS, could have went in a lot sooner than this tip.


CPS usually doesn't act unless there is a tip. It's just the way they do things. The police could have gone in if they had a warrant, but unless there is some sort of evidence they can't just go in there and start investigating.


Isn't that the truth! I know about this first hand when LDS church members were hiding my daughter from me.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 8:18:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: themaestro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

quote:

If it was known they were breaking the law, the authorities, CPS, could have went in a lot sooner than this tip.


CPS usually doesn't act unless there is a tip. It's just the way they do things. The police could have gone in if they had a warrant, but unless there is some sort of evidence they can't just go in there and start investigating.



Most cps's do not care if the tip is fake or not. Once a call comes in the bureaucrats must investigate and"find" something. We have several homeschool friends who have had fake calls about them. The response from Social services was "Yes ithe tip was fake but we need to verify that these kids are not abused." Then the fishing expedition and thousands in legal fees began


I'm not saying this hasn't happened, but do you have any evidence? Our family was investigated by CPS and there weren't any legal fees. I've known others who were investigated and there were no legal fees.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 8:21:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jongould

Please try to stay with real facts and not the media hype.

There are 139 women.



The FLDS parents are lying to authorities and not cooperating. That says a lot! Normal parents can at least give their real names.



lightshineon -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 9:03:27 PM)

They are having to do DNA test, to see who belongs to who.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

quote:

ORIGINAL: jongould

Please try to stay with real facts and not the media hype.

There are 139 women.



The FLDS parents are lying to authorities and not cooperating. That says a lot! Normal parents can at least give their real names.



TomTurn -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 9:05:16 PM)

Turns out Rozita Swinton of Colorado is an Obama delegate.

I say again, all in all something is not in line here and makes me go, ummm

....

an edit. Thought I had better cut and paste before it is removed from the Obama site


Stone, David Louis 107
Suhr, Alice R 333
Swanson, Jannette Parks 040
Swinton, Rozita E 269
Taber, Benjamin Nathanial 044
Teal, Jennifer G 149
Thomas, Teresa Lynn 329



lightshineon -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 9:19:59 PM)

Well Tom, I usually agree with you, on nearly everything, but this. These children are forced to marry these men. It is a different thing than the sin that goes on in schools ( which I agree does go on). These people do what the prophet says, his word is never challenged. One man Something Jeffery's was put in prison for kiddie rape. His followers were outraged, screaming in and out of the courtroom. They do put younger men out, just kick them to the curb, "lost boys." How could a mother do her child that way?
I would not as a woman want to share my bed with a husband, that had many wives, that is gross, and immoral. The prophet picks the most attractive young girls also, and it is a warped mindset. People who leave these groups, or the lost boys still cannot wrap thier head around, that the prophet is wrong. Come on guy's it is all about balance, and like one poster said if my church became a cult, or compound, well I hope the goverment would take my childrens welfare in to account, because Their interest would not be well served by me as mother, if I were part of the cultish mindset.



TomTurn -> RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid (4/21/2008 9:24:29 PM)

quote:

Well Tom, I usually agree with you, on nearly everything, but this. These children are forced to marry these men.


Thanks and please understand, I am not saying nothing bad and against the law did not go on in there. I am saying something in this "tip" and "investigation" and all, is not lining up.

And am asking all to not combine what is legal but you just do not like, with what is actually illegal.

A stepford wife is spooky but it is not against the law to be one.



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