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ORIGINAL: rcjames

URForginen,

Do you think that we must forgive those who have trespassed against us to recieve forgiveness from God?

THsnks
RC

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ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Peter was saved at the time he denied the Christ? Really? He was saved before the death, burial and resurrection of Christ? You may want to reconsider that one.

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There is nothing anywhere in the Bible about a Believer ever being out of fellowship with God. Period. God is not dealing with Believers based on our sins. The sin issue for God has been settled.

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There is no pattern of confession for the forgiveness of sins, nor confession in order to remain in fellowship with God, anywhere under the new covenant, for Believers.

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There is nothing under the new covenant about daily self-examination for Believers.

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What you are presenting is simply not Biblical.

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ORIGINAL: Ezra

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ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Peter was saved at the time he denied the Christ? Really? He was saved before the death, burial and resurrection of Christ? You may want to reconsider that one.

You may want to read Hebrews chapter 11 to find out that even before the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, God was saving those who believed Him and believed that He would provide Himself a Lamb.

Peter confessed "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" directly to Jesus. And John says "These are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, AND THAT BELIEVING YE MIGHT HAVE LIFE THROUGH HIS NAME" (Jn.20:31). Peter believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, therefore he was saved (Acts. 16:31).

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There is nothing anywhere in the Bible about a Believer ever being out of fellowship with God. Period. God is not dealing with Believers based on our sins. The sin issue for God has been settled.

The sin issue is settled as it relates to the Law of Sin and Death. But the daily defilement of the soul is always an issue. Do you watch TV? Does it ever defile your soul? More than likely every day. There is a very significant passage in 1 Jn. 1:1 - 2:2 that addresses this issue.

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There is no pattern of confession for the forgiveness of sins, nor confession in order to remain in fellowship with God, anywhere under the new covenant, for Believers.

Read, study and meditate on John 13:2-15. The original Scofield Reference Bible has this footnote which clarifies the symbolism:

The underlying imagery is an oriental returning from the public baths to his house. His feet would contract defilement and require cleanising, but not his body. So the believer is cleansed as before the law from all sin "once for all" (Heb. 10:1-12), but needs ever to bring his daily sins to the Father in confession, that he may abide in unbroken fellowship with the Father and with the Son (1 Jn. 1:1-10).

The blood of Christ answers forever to all the law could say as to the believer's guilt, but he needs constant cleansing from the defilement of sin. See. Eph. 5:25-27; 1 Jn. 5:6. Typically, the order of approach to the presence of God was first, the brazen altar of sacrifice, and then the laver of cleansing (Ex. 40:6,7). See also the order in Ex. 30:17-21. Christ cannot have communion with a defiled saint, but He can and will cleanse him.

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There is nothing under the new covenant about daily self-examination for Believers.

"But let a man EXAMINE HIMSELF, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup" (1 Cor. 11:28).

What does it mean to "examine himself"? Literally dokimazo means "to prove ourselves with a view to being approved", and the preceding verse explains it. We are not to partake of the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner. This includes confessing our sins one to another (Jas. 5:16) and searching our souls for every defilement. The application of God's Word as a searchlight to our souls ("washing of water by the Word"), reveals the thoughts and intents of our hearts to us and to God (Heb. 4:12,13). To us for confession, to God for cleansing.

At the beginning, when the church was established in Jerusalem, believers met daily to partake of the Lord's Supper (Acts 2:46). Later it became a weekly observance. However, in preparation for communion (koinonia) with the Lord and with other believers, it was necessary to daily examine themselves (the application of the "foot washing"). This ties in with remaining in fellowship with the Father and the Son throughout the week.

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What you are presenting is simply not Biblical.

Only for those who seek to avoid the plain Biblical teachings regarding sin in the believers life.

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ORIGINAL: URForgiven

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ORIGINAL: rcjames

URForginen,

Do you think that we must forgive those who have trespassed against us to recieve forgiveness from God?

THsnks
RC

RC, you know the answer already. It is the shed blood of Christ on the cross that provides forgiveness. We receive that forgiveness in Christ.

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ORIGINAL: rcjames

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ORIGINAL: URForgiven

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ORIGINAL: rcjames

URForginen,

Do you think that we must forgive those who have trespassed against us to recieve forgiveness from God?

THsnks
RC

RC, you know the answer already. It is the shed blood of Christ on the cross that provides forgiveness. We receive that forgiveness in Christ.

URF, what about this condition that Christ spoke to;

(Mat 6:14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

(Mat 6:15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Were these Words of Christ just to fill out the page or did He mean them?


Thanks
RC

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ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

Bluethread, I think you may be correct in your assessment of our disagreements.( I'm not sure about the rest of what you said)

URF and Rileykins(cute name BTW)

Do you ever experience conviction? Ever feel guilty because of something you have done?

Of course!

What do you do about that?

Well, that's the question isn't it? What does a believer do? The gotta- keep- short -accounts guys say 1john 1:9, I say Romans chapter 6.

Ignore it because you are already forgiven?

No, I don't say ignore it when we as believers fail to live like the saints we really are. But I do know and I think everyone else does too, (if they are honest with themselves that is,) that the way to put away sin in a believers life is NOT in the doing of any of these things. You do not stop sin by...
Confessing your sin
Praying for forgiveness
Feeling guilty
Trying to do better.

I don't question whether we are forgiven, I know that we are. However, I question just what kind of relationship do we actually have with our Father when we don't need to go to Him because we are already perfect.

Perfect? No. At least not this side of the grave. No, not perfect, forgiven. We are a forgiven people. We are however complete in Him. But perfect, no. The only person who ever lived the perfect life, 100% of time, the only one who can say that "I always do the will of my Father in Heaven" is of course the Lord Jesus Christ. It's because of His perfect obedience, not ours, that we are made righteous.

I'm not perfect and when He convicts me, I am reminded just how very much I need a Savior, just how much I need Him close to me.

Nor am I, that's for sure! When I sin, I'm convicted of a failure on my part to have applied sound doctrine to the kind of thinking that led me to the commiting of whatever the sin was in the first place.
And this too leads me to acknowledge my need for the Savior. It reminds me that without the Lord, I can do nothing. It reminds me of His all sufficient work on Calvary and that that sin, whatever it is, was once and for all put away there on that cross, and that for me to continue to engage in any sin as a believer whether it's willful or not (and really, folks, aren't they all willfull?) is simply out of line, contrary to all that God says I now am in Christ Jesus and that such behavior is unbecoming as a saint. And what about the guilt? Am I to wallow in it and beg God, beat my chest fearing even to look up to Heaven, plead with Him to have mercy on me a sinner? No. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. Am I ashamed of myself when I act in a way that I know is out of line with who I am in Christ? Yes, of course I am! But the solution to it isn't in 1John 1:9 and trying to keep short accounts with God of my sins.

If I don't admit my faults to Him, I am arrogant.
And so do I admit my faults to Him. But not to get forgiven. But to ask the Lord to help me to remember that I belong to Him now and that the next time I'm tempted to do or say something that I shouldn't I'll stop and think first about what all He did for me and how because of the Lord I'm not that old person that I used to be and that I no longer have to act the way I once did when I was lost, without life in me, without hope and without God in this world and so on. I ask the Lord to help me apply the sound doctrine that He's provided for me to overcome whatever the sins, the faults, the failures, may be so that I can experience the victory over theses things that He has already provided for me in Christ Jesus, not just for my own benefit, but more importantly, for His glory and to His praise.

rileykins was the name of my little kitty. I had to put him to sleep a couple of years ago. I had him for 20 years until he became ill with kidney failure. It's crazy how attached we get to our pets isn't it. I have new cat now, but riley was the best.

rileykins

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ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Once again I will refer you to post #62. Cogitate on it. It is Truth.

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ORIGINAL: rcjames

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ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Once again I will refer you to post #62. Cogitate on it. It is Truth.

That was no truth in your post 62,just a not too artful dodge of God's truth in His Word.

Do you believe these words of Jesus or do you not;

(Mat 6:14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

(Mat 6:15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

That seems sinple enough, but maybe not for you.

Thanks
RC

edited for spelling

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ORIGINAL: URForgiven
If the truth will set you free [and it will], then the opposite is also true; error will bind you.

I will pray for you my friend. Peace.

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Post 62, is not my post, it is GraceBro's.

If you did not find your answer there, then you are not seeking truth, but merely seeking to substantiate what you already believe.

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ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

I am not Catholic, nor do I need a priest to absolve me of my sins. I admit my sins and ask His forgiveness for not following Him and not doing as He would have me do. I am convicted when I do wrong, not by the Accuser, but By the HS. I think the HS just might be offended and consider it blasphemous to be called the "accuser". I am humbled and reminded that I will not be completely holy as He is Holy until I am standing before Him. To think anything else is denying Who He is and who I am. I also think tht when we are standing before Him, we will all be shocked at just how royally we screwed up and how badly we have misinterpreted His Word. It will not be pretty for us, no matter how forgiven we are. I just think about all those times, I have missed opportunities because I was more caught up in this world than focusing on what He would be having me do. Such as being in the grocery store and an elderly gentleman is looking at the meat. He makes a comment about how high it has gone and puts it back regretfully and picks up pork bones that are much cheaper. in my rush, I acknowledge the price of goods and agree,yet I missed the opportunity to bless this man by buying that meat for him. How many times in a day do we actually do this. How often are the two of you super righteous people who no longer need forgiveness for anything,because you already have it, missing the the opportunities because you consider conviction, of the devil.

O.k. deliveredarling, I have never ever said that conviction was of the devil or that I consider myself to be super righteous. It was nice discussing this issue with you. If you base your righteousness on what you do and your redemption on your ability to keep yourself fessed up, well, I'll tell you what I told RC, good luck to you, make sure you have them all covered.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 1Cor.1:30
MY hope is built on nothing less,
then Jesus's blood and righteousness

Have a great weekend in the Lord everyone, Maranatha!
rileykins

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ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace

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Post 62, is not my post, it is GraceBro's.

If you did not find your answer there, then you are not seeking truth, but merely seeking to substantiate what you already believe.

Actually, it was Odeliya's post, and it has no answers. It is mostly a question and an exclamation.

That being said, I agree with much of what GraceBro said in post 63. The one point that keeps coming to mind is this. Even if I am forgiven of every sin I will ever commit without uttering a single request for it, I am reminded that I still need to seek counsel from God. I NEED to talk to Him and ask for strength in overcoming areas in which I am weak. Forgiven? Sure! Still maturing? Until I die!

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ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

am I mistaken in understanding URF and Rikeykins position? This is what I am understanding it to be:
1.) There is no need to ask for forgiveness because we are already forgiven?
2.) No need to repent because we don't need to ask for forgiveness of anything.
3.)We are pure, and holy, washed by the blood of the Lamb here on earth
4.)There is absolutely nothing that we as Christians have to do after we have made the decision to follow Christ
5.) There are no requirements a whatsoever for a Christians life
Your answers, be them yes or no, will clear up a lot. URF, you seem to continue your answers in a wild circle fashion without ever getting to the answer, in other words, you tend to avoid being pinned down. Riley, you just put it out there and I truly appreciate that. If I have misunderstood, I would like to know.

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ORIGINAL: Bluethread

If we are not forgiven, we can not converse because Adonai will not interact with the unholy. One could argue that forfathers in the Tanach(old testiment) had fellowship with Adonai. But as the revelation recorded by Yochanan(John) shows us, they are covered by the blood of The Lamb that was slain at the creation of the world, just as we are.

Now that we have forgiveness, we are now able to converse with Adonai and His people and, as I said before, recognition of our errors before Adonai and others helps us to remember and sin no more.

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ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

I've gotten myself confused with yes or no answers Can you re-answer with true or false, please. Hopefully, this will clear up the barrage of questions that popped in my head with the yes or no's. Sorry about that!

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ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

Faith gets us into heaven. If we don't have the faith, we don't have the works that show the result of our faith. We are called to be holy as He is holy. Our works should be a result of that. To say that i can go and get drunk, use drugs, cuss like a sailor, sleep with hundreds of people and say i walk in the light because I'm forgiven is delusional. Being saved does not offer me or any other saved person the right to do what we please. We were bought at a price. Scripture simply does not back up what you are saying. Read the letter to the seven churches in Revelations and see if you still feel the same.