Why do so many people reject water baptism (Full Version)

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restored08 -> Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/8/2008 3:29:04 PM)

The bible speaks of baptism and even Jesus was baptized, so why do so many people reject or feel that baptism isn't important?



greatdivide46 -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/8/2008 4:38:33 PM)

I think it's because they've been taught that all their lives and they're not willing to approach the Scriptures with an open mind to discover what it really says about the meaning and purpose of baptism. They rely on what they've been taught instead of searching it out for themselves. I don't blame them though. It is exremely difficult to give up a doctrine that you've been taught all your life and that you believe is true, even if someone points out to you inconsistencies in that doctrine.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/8/2008 5:20:28 PM)

Those who actually know the Lord are being conformed to His image and will want to be baptized. It will happen! The person who loves the Lord wants to walk as he walked.

1 John 2
6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.



doinkdom -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/8/2008 5:22:09 PM)

I've never heard of a Christian rejecting baptism before



GrahamCracker -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/8/2008 5:32:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: restored08

The bible speaks of baptism and even Jesus was baptized, so why do so many people reject or feel that baptism isn't important?


Who says that? I only know of a couple of denominations that didn't baptize. And therefore might qualify for believing and even teaching that it wasn't important.

The Congregationalists of the 19th century didn't baptize, as I understand. They still exist today but I don't know their current stance on baptism.

I have heard that those belonging to the Salvation Army don't baptize. But I don't know that they actually consider themselves a separate denomination. So the rumor I heard that they don't baptize would stem, not from disbelieving in baptism, but that their adherents should take baptism somewhere else.

QUOTE
The founders, William Booth and Catherine Booth, believed that many Christians had come to seek salvation through ritual rather than reliance on God. Accordingly they decided not to include the use of sacraments, (mainly baptism and Holy Communion) in the Army's form of worship.
UNQUOTE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation_army



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/8/2008 7:30:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

I've never heard of a Christian rejecting baptism before


Neither have I.



GrahamCracker -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/8/2008 9:23:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

I've never heard of a Christian rejecting baptism before


Neither have I.


Typically those rejecting baptism are those who also reject the teachings of their church, whatever particular church they attend (or don't attend). They fall outside the established teachings of the vast majority of orthodox Christianity.

Somehow, while they (that 5% or so who think that way) may reject baptism either in practice or belief, they get credit for speaking on behalf of the rest of us who steadfastly believe that Christians are supposed get baptized. Methinks they get credit that they don't deserve. And frankly, they don't even attend church.

Hmmmm. Maybe they don't even exist.



Ps103 -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/8/2008 11:20:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

I've never heard of a Christian rejecting baptism before


Neither have I.


Typically those rejecting baptism are those who also reject the teachings of their church, whatever particular church they attend (or don't attend). They fall outside the established teachings of the vast majority of orthodox Christianity.

Somehow, while they (that 5% or so who think that way) may reject baptism either in practice or belief, they get credit for speaking on behalf of the rest of us who steadfastly believe that Christians are supposed get baptized. Methinks they get credit that they don't deserve. And frankly, they don't even attend church.

Hmmmm. Maybe they don't even exist.



Read THIS thread, Larry.

There are quite a few on there that are of the opinion that the only baptism they need is the baptism of the Holy Spirit...however they define that.

Every church I have ever gone to (many different denominations in my life) considered (water) Baptism to be when a person was made a part of the Body of Christ. These forums are so educational--I had no idea there were Christians who did not believe in Baptism....[&:]



GrahamCracker -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 7:19:39 AM)

quote:

Read THIS thread, Larry.

There are quite a few on there that are of the opinion that the only baptism they need is the baptism of the Holy Spirit...however they define that.

...These forums are so educational--I had no idea there were Christians who did not believe in Baptism....


PS103,

I don't have time to read the five pages of postings in that thread this morning. But if I do I don't think I'll find anything that changes my mind.

Let me explain and clarify. Some, in discussions like this, talk of baptism not being necessary or rejecting baptism altogether. But what is often neglected in the discussion is that Christians accept baptism as not only being necessary but commanded.

The difference is that there is a distinctly identifiable percentage of Christians who don't believe baptism is necessary for salvation. So when people say that some Christians reject baptism, they group two groups together:

1) Those who think baptism is completely unnecessary as far as having been commanded by God.

2) Those who believe it is necessary and commanded by God but not required to go to heaven.

It would appear that the thread you linked to was discussing the first group. But when threads are titled like this one, it makes it appear that the discussion is about the 2nd group. In my post above, I was talking about the 2nd group.

quote:

Every church I have ever gone to (many different denominations in my life) considered (water) Baptism to be when a person was made a part of the Body of Christ.


Even defining the Body of Christ, some churches (certain Independent Baptists) for example believe only in a visible organic body of Christ. They will go so far as to say that there is no such thing as the invisible universal church. Therefore, baptism is when a person identifies themselves with a local visible assembly and a Christian can go to heaven when they die but die as not being a member of Christ's Body. Lest anyone think I am kidding...I assure them that this is true.

My view is that every person becomes a part of Christ's body upon receiving Christ as their personal savior, i.e. being born again. Therefore, baptism, IMHO, does not accomplish this. However, Christians are expected to be baptized and everything discussed in the Bible with relation to baptism indicates tacitly that baptism is not only expected but obligated such that failure to be baptized constitutes disobedience. That, even though no scripture says "thou shalt be baptized."



greatdivide46 -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 8:23:31 AM)

I think another reason some people may reject baptism (especially as it relates to salvation) is because they somehow got the idea that it is something that man does. And I think we all agree that nothing man can do will result in salvation. Baptism is often described as making a response, making a commitment, expressing one's faith, testifying to one's faith, announcing one's faith, confirming one's salvation, demonstrating one's discipleship, or a pledge to live the Christian life. All of these are human actions, things we do. The Bible never once speaks of baptism in such terms. In the Bible baptism is considered to be not something we do, but something God is doing. It is indeed "the working of God" (Colossians 2:12).



restored08 -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 9:50:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

I've never heard of a Christian rejecting baptism before

Yes, I've been in fellowship with believers who don't believe in the water baptism. Some feel that it's only an outward display of your commitment to Christ. It's like they don't believe entirely in the word of God. There is scripture backing up the importance of water baptism.
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he can not enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5



rileykins -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 10:14:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

I've never heard of a Christian rejecting baptism before


Depends on what baptism and what it's being used for. Water baptism as God's means through which He imparts salvation to us? THEN YES, I REJECT IT!!

rileykins



doinkdom -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 11:53:44 AM)

THIS IS FROM THE OTHER THREAD
quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:

ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
...we're saved by GRACE alone, water can't save you.

True, but the first fruit of salvation seems to be the universal desire to obey the Lord's command to be baptized. The Ethiopian is a prime example: Barely saved a moment when he asked to be baptized by Phillip. Jesus thought enough of it to include it in what we often refer to as The Great Commission.


and I agree with this statement.

btw...it does my heart good to see Bette back on the boards[;)]



Ps103 -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 11:59:18 AM)

quote:

btw...it does my heart good to see Bette back on the boards


And doesn't she look good being as she just turned 100[:D]

Larry--yes, the thread (at least the posts that flabbergasted me) leaned toward your #1. They claim water baptism was never required--only baptism of the Holy Spirit. They were not discussing Baptism as salvic/non-salvic.



restored08 -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 12:02:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

I've never heard of a Christian rejecting baptism before


Depends on what baptism and what it's being used for. Water baptism as God's means through which He imparts salvation to us? THEN YES, I REJECT IT!!

I'm speaking of water baptism. what other way can water baptism, baptism unto repentence, or baptism of the Holy Ghost be used for? And if water baptism is God's means through which He imparts salvation to us, if it is a law of God why would you reject it? Read John 3:5. You cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven without the water baptism so are you saying you'll go to hell simply because you reject being baptized?

rileykins



URForgiven -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 12:40:49 PM)

What most people reject is not water baptism, but rather the notion that water baptism is somehow a requirement of Gods salvation plan.



restored08 -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 1:13:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

What most people reject is not water baptism, but rather the notion that water baptism is somehow a requirement of Gods salvation plan.


Well how do you explain John 3:5. Nobody seems to be able to do that. Because to me is means just what it says. And if it means exactly what it says to you then you also reject Jesus.
The salvation comes through confession. I'm not speaking of a salvation plan there is no plan to salvation simply confessing the Lord Jesus and believing with your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shalt be saved. Confession is made unto salvation. If we take up our crosses and follow Christ and do what Jesus did, you must know that Jesus was baptized with the water baptism, so why are followers not doing the same?



rileykins -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 1:29:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

What most people reject is not water baptism, but rather the notion that water baptism is somehow a requirement of Gods salvation plan.


Thank you!
rileykins



doinkdom -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 1:46:22 PM)

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

I think it is a connection between obedience as a fruit of your salvation. In context, this is all about explaing to Nicodemus what being born again means.



mcleod -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 1:48:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

I've never heard of a Christian rejecting baptism before


Neither have I.


Well I have and they are called Grace fellowship. They have a college in Grand Rapids MI. which and I attend one of their gatherings for awhile. I believe also they have a college in Milwaukee WI. They go by what is stated in Ephesians ch 4 starting in verse 4 There is one body and one Spirit-just as you were called- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father to all who is over all and in all.
Since there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit. Then you do not need to have water baptism. Just like you don't go out and sacrific a lamb anymore you need not to dunk yourself anymore.



doinkdom -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 1:54:54 PM)

Well, people 'round here view Baptism on a whole different level.

Baptism



rileykins -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 1:57:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: restored08

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

I've never heard of a Christian rejecting baptism before


Depends on what baptism and what it's being used for. Water baptism as God's means through which He imparts salvation to us? THEN YES, I REJECT IT!!

I'm speaking of water baptism. what other way can water baptism, baptism unto repentence, or baptism of the Holy Ghost be used for? And if water baptism is God's means through which He imparts salvation to us,

Water baptism is not God's means through which He imparts salvation to us. Not today in this dispensation of grace. Ever heard of the dispensation of grace? Today God's means of imparting salvation to us is THROUGH faith, and through faith alone. Faith in what? Faith in all that Christ did for us on Calvary in that He died for our sins, was buried and raised.

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1Cor.15:1-4

if it is a law of God why would you reject it? Read John 3:5. You cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven without the water baptism

Not today in this dispensation of grace. Heaven becomes our home, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit (that's that one baptism the Paul talks about, by the way) placed into His body (no water in it) by God the very moment we believe on the Lord Jesus trusting that all He did on Calvary for us was and is enough to have saved us and keep us saved.

so are you saying you'll go to hell simply because you reject being baptized?

I never said that, that's for sure. The people going to Hell are those who have rejected Jesus Christ having chosen to not believe on Him for salvation. A water ceremony saves no one today. Salvation in this dispensation of grace is a gift from God. It's received THROUGH faith and THROUGH faith ALONE! The only thing water baptism gets you today is wet!
rileykins




rileykins -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 2:19:09 PM)

"FOR BY ONE SPIRIT ARE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY, WHETHER WE BE JEWS OR GENTILES, WHETHER WE BE BOND OR FREE; AND HAVE BEEN ALL MADE TO DRINK INTO ONE SPIRIT."

The baptism that the Apostle Paul taught was a baptism into Christ. This baptism is the placing of the believer today into the Body of Christ.
the baptizer is NOT a minister but God the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not place the believer into water but into Christ! This baptism into Christ is the baptism that identifies the believer with the saving work of the Cross.

The moment I trusted in Jesus Christ as my Savior, the Holy Spirit of God placed me into Christ's death (the cross where my sins were paid for) and into His burial (the payment is complete) and into Christ's resurrection (where I now have a new life in Christ).
This baptism is the work of the Holy Spirit. Our baptism into Christ is the basis for our forgiveness of sins. This is the real baptism that supersedes any ritual baptism previously taught. It is the reality of all that God has accomplished in my behalf through Jesus Christ!

rileykins



restored08 -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 2:24:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins

quote:

ORIGINAL: restored08

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

I've never heard of a Christian rejecting baptism before


Depends on what baptism and what it's being used for. Water baptism as God's means through which He imparts salvation to us? THEN YES, I REJECT IT!!

I'm speaking of water baptism. what other way can water baptism, baptism unto repentence, or baptism of the Holy Ghost be used for? And if water baptism is God's means through which He imparts salvation to us,

Water baptism is not God's means through which He imparts salvation to us. Not today in this dispensation of grace. Ever heard of the dispensation of grace? Today God's means of imparting salvation to us is THROUGH faith, and through faith alone. Faith in what? Faith in all that Christ did for us on Calvary in that He died for our sins, was buried and raised.

[no. water baptism is not God's means through which we are saved. we are indeed saved by grace. you are exactly right./color]

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1Cor.15:1-4

if it is a law of God why would you reject it? Read John 3:5. You cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven without the water baptism

Not today in this dispensation of grace. Heaven becomes our home, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit (that's that one baptism the Paul talks about, by the way) placed into His body (no water in it) by God the very moment we believe on the Lord Jesus trusting that all He did on Calvary for us was and is enough to have saved us and keep us saved.
We are sealed with the blood of lamb. John the baptist was sent forth to baptize with water and preach repentence to the world and make way the path for Christ to come. So the bible speaks of more than one baptism. And John did indeed proclaim that there would be one greater to follow him that would baptize them with the Holy Spirit.

so are you saying you'll go to hell simply because you reject being baptized?

I never said that, that's for sure. The people going to Hell are those who have rejected Jesus Christ having chosen to not believe on Him for salvation. A water ceremony saves no one today. Salvation in this dispensation of grace is a gift from God. It's received THROUGH faith and THROUGH faith ALONE! The only thing water baptism gets you today is wet!

so explain to me what John 3:5 means or should it be taken out of the bible all together since everyone in the forum, making comments and saying that they are believers and followers of Christ, is ignoring it.
rileykins





URForgiven -> RE: Why do so many people reject water baptism (4/9/2008 2:56:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

I think it is a connection between obedience as a fruit of your salvation. In context, this is all about explaing to Nicodemus what being born again means.
quote:

Christian Foundations


We need to remember that every time we see the word "water" in the Bible it does not mean water baptism. And every time we see the word "baptism" in the Bible it does not mean water baptism.



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