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A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 6:36:19 PM
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Walker311
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A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!!
I see the changes that have taken place over a period of time in this forum from Faithwalk - Christians Only to FaithWalk - Protestants Only and I understand the reasoning. Also, IT has become a subfolder.
The changes in wording gave me pause about how very different we all are.
CHRISTIANS have many similarities but if each of us made comparisons, not that we will do this here, I imagine that we would be suprised.
These differences are often obvious by the way we respond to each other. Recently, there has been a flurry of topics concerning sin.
I have to admit that it is very interesting to see the range of emotion the topic of sin produces.
Topics like which areas of America are more spiritual than others, or what are some of the things some Christians do that would shock you can be touchy subjects.
However, the topic/comments that seems to stir our emotions most is anyone attempting to point out that a Christian can stop sinning... live without sin... be perfect... be followers of Christ and go and sin no more... and etc.
My only question is... WHY?
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 6:56:14 PM
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rcjames
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Because folks that do not want to stop serving the flesh, want an excuse to continue with their status quo.
And when Scripture is brought out that not only says we are expected to stop sinning, that we can stop sinning, and that there is no viable excuse for a Christian to continue in sin; the flesh screams very loudly.
The insturction on how we as Christians are to live is very well pronounced by Paul here;
(Rom 12:1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
(Rom 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
But this is rejected by many many "christians".
Christ said;
(Luk 18:8) I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
And I am sometime doubtful that He will.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 6:56:54 PM
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cobblestone
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Because it's a fallacy. Anything more than yes or no is a sin.
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 7:12:43 PM
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cobblestone
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From what I understand is the premise is based on having aquired the Spirit of Jesus, having no spirit of our own. I disagree strongly. Peter was able to speak from the Spirit of God in one moment and from the spirit of satan a few moments later. There are lots of scripture proving that the human spirit is one thing and the Spirit of God another. The downpayment of the Spirit we have with us at all times (that's why the command not to grieve the Spirit b/c it is with us where ever we go, mind and body) but the Power of the Spirit is clothed like on Gibeon to do His work on a temporary volunteer basis, not as the spirit of your conscience/will/etc. that is your operating system. You can obtain the mind of Christ when you obey his commands such as think on these things etc. but the Spirit doesn't make anyone infallable.
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 7:27:13 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cobblestone
Because it's a fallacy. Anything more than yes or no is a sin.
Got any Scripture for this?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 7:30:59 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cobblestone
but the Spirit doesn't make anyone infallable.
Make one infallable, No; but does make a way for one to be obedient to Scripture and live a Holy life by resisting temptation;
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 7:43:52 PM
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cobblestone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: cobblestone
but the Spirit doesn't make anyone infallable.
Make one infallable, No; but does make a way for one to be obedient to Scripture and live a Holy life by resisting temptation;
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Thanks
RC
A way and the way are two different things, In what way do you mean that? So, you agree the rest of what I said is true? If not, what? How do you not sin? All things are possible with God but I don't beleive thats one of His provisions
< Message edited by cobblestone -- 4/8/2008 7:51:11 PM >
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 9:27:38 PM
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SonInMe1
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Show me....ONE...sinless christian.
Just one will do.
If sinlessness was the goal of our walk with Christ, then why were repentence, forgiveness and sanctification included in the bible? If we become sinless then who needs repentence? Forgiveness? Sanctification?
I understand holiness and am not excusing sin. I believe all things are possible in Christ Jesus. That God is bigger than any sin or the flesh. If we become sinless...aren't we then...God?
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 9:38:14 PM
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cobblestone
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Christ was capable of sin, but by the power of the Spirit choose not to sin. If He couldn't sin then satan wouldn't have returned to tempt him. How many of us that have the choose not to sin, have the power available not to sin, don't choose to sin? maybe not always but it's a progressive disciplined self-sacrificing road and I can't see any but the Son of God being able to accomplish it.
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 10:35:55 PM
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x_SoliDeoGloria_x
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quote:
Christ was capable of sin, but by the power of the Spirit choose not to sin.
That's debatable. Christ was/is fully God. Is God capable of sin?
_____________________________
"Not by work going before grace shall I deserve grace, nor by my work following grace shall I deserve eternal life; but to him that believes, sin is pardoned and righteousness imputed." -- Martin Luther
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 10:40:33 PM
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cobblestone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: x_SoliDeoGloria_x
quote:
Christ was capable of sin, but by the power of the Spirit choose not to sin.
That's debatable. Christ was/is fully God. Is God capable of sin?
As fully man He would have to be.
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 10:48:27 PM
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cobblestone
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I have to sign off soon, so I'll complete the opening lines for the argument. Ressurected mankind in it's present condition isn't resurrected bodily. The sin remains there, leaving the mind to follow suit. Satan/the world/ the flesh aren't in their conquered state until they are come out of. Satan is overcome, the world can be overcome, but the flesh (lust, materialism and pride) is still tied to us antil the body is resurrected as well as the spirit and mind of mankind.
The spirit isn't christ, we are little christ's but not in the sence that we are nothing else. Thats the argument.
< Message edited by cobblestone -- 4/8/2008 10:55:12 PM >
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 11:03:22 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Peter was able to speak from the Spirit of God in one moment and from the spirit of satan a few moments later. Reference, please. Do you honestly think Peter was a sanctified Believer in Matthew 16? If not, then your example is meaningless!
quote:
quote:
Because it's a fallacy. Anything more than yes or no is a sin.
Got any Scripture for this? Of course no one has Scripture for such nonsense, but it sure makes for argumentative threads!
quote:
Show me....ONE...sinless christian. Please define "sinless", SonInMe1.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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Sinless in Seattle? - 4/8/2008 11:42:19 PM
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oldmethuselah
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quote:
Please define "sinless",
Well Walky knows how to get em going!
The funny thing about some of these entries, is that I could have written them based on the stalwart threaders who frequent these virtual realms.
AND, they DO illustrate how polarized we have become.
I guess it truly is a case of looking at different facets of the same jewel.
God's plan for our perfection and our persistent resistance of it.
< Message edited by oldmethuselah -- 4/8/2008 11:51:53 PM >
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RE: Sinless in Seattle? - 4/8/2008 11:45:38 PM
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Walker311
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Can you love Christ to such a point that your obedience outweighs sin?
Most Christians throw their hands up and say there is no way. Even if you you are blind or deaf you can't stop sinning. Even if you are a living like a monk with no outside influences you can't stop. The mindset is why even try to do the impossible? Why even spend time thinking about a concept that is beyond our reach. A majority believe that all that is said about being free from sin IS just a concept or goal but not something to get worked up about.
What is in fact scripturally sound, is the opposite of everything that I just said. To be free from sin is exactly what God expects and if it were not possible, the Word of God would simply be a pep talk about an impossible lifestyle that streamed from the imagination of God 2000 years ago.
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RE: Sinless in Seattle? - 4/8/2008 11:50:34 PM
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oldmethuselah
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BTW... RCJAMES AND WALKY...
what do you make of Paul's description of the two natures that are at war within him?
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/8/2008 11:56:03 PM
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cobblestone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Peter was able to speak from the Spirit of God in one moment and from the spirit of satan a few moments later. Reference, please. Do you honestly think Peter was a sanctified Believer in Matthew 16? If not, then your example is meaningless!
quote:
quote:
Because it's a fallacy. Anything more than yes or no is a sin.
Got any Scripture for this? Of course no one has Scripture for such nonsense, but it sure makes for argumentative threads!
quote:
Show me....ONE...sinless christian. Please define "sinless", SonInMe1.
Matthew 5:37 Let your Yes be simply Yes, and your No be simply No; anything more than that comes from the evil one.
Matt 16 is the reference to Peter. Do you think that He wasn't set apart at that time?
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/9/2008 12:37:52 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Show me....ONE...sinless christian.
Just one will do.
That's hardly the issue.
quote:
If sinlessness was the goal of our walk with Christ, then why were repentence, forgiveness and sanctification included in the bible?
Sinlessness is indeed the goal of the Christian walk, and it is commanded: "Be ye holy, as I am holy" says the Lord. And God's eternal plan and purpose for His children is to be conformed to the likeness of His Son. Christ is sinlessly perfect. That is what God's will is for each of His children.
quote:
If we become sinless then who needs repentence? Forgiveness? Sanctification?
That is one of the strangest remarks I've come across. We need repentance and forgiveness until we come to perfection.
quote:
I understand holiness and am not excusing sin.
Then why the strange remarks?
quote:
If we become sinless...aren't we then...God?
No. Just perfect children of God. And that will indeed happen eventually. We shall be perfected in our spirits, souls, and bodies. We shall be glorified also. See Romans 8:28-30.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Sinless in Seattle? - 4/9/2008 12:45:22 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: oldmethuselah
BTW... RCJAMES AND WALKY...
what do you make of Paul's description of the two natures that are at war within him?
I'm sure RC and Walker will respond in due course, but the description of the two natures is to simply show us that our old nature has not been eradicated.
Therefore it needs to be crucified daily. And it needs to die daily. And when it is "mortified" we walk after the Spirit, and do not sin or walk after the flesh. Instead we produce the fruit of the Spirit, and that is the same as walking in the Light.
Sinning is a choice (James 1:14,15) but the Christian does not have to make that choice, since the Holy Spirit dwells within and empowers the Christian to resist temptation. But it will cost you. The flesh will have to be crucified.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!! - 4/9/2008 5:12:05 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
A CHRISTIAN STOPPED SINNING!!!
How many people showed up for his funeral?
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Sinless in Seattle? - 4/9/2008 5:25:51 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
To be free from sin is exactly what God expects and if it were not possible, the Word of God would simply be a pep talk about an impossible lifestyle that streamed from the imagination of God 2000 years ago.
Perfectionists usually redefine holiness to mean a variety of observable behaviors, petty things wherein they can preen themselves on their superiority to those "mere" humans around them. For example, I once heard a Jamaican "holiness" preacher address a congregation on the horrible sin of -- wearing wedding rings. Since he was speaking to an American congregation, it's nearly certain that some of the ladies in the attendance had murdered their babies -- but abortion is an invisible sin, so let's not worry about it.
Ever read Charles Finney's diatribes on the heinous evils of drinking coffee? Although Finney started well, his worship of human willpower eventually made him a thorough Pelagian whose manipulative techniques continue to corrupt and defile the life of the Church.
We are defined by the world around us as bitter, hypocritical people who are "against" a carefully specified range of things. The expression "beauty of holiness" does not bring to mind a George Washington Carver, C. S. Lewis, or Michaelangelo bursting with creativity and service to neighbor that reflects God's glory. No, when those around us hear the word "holiness," they think of a self-righteous prig sitting smugly in a reeking, stinking dung hill of self-worship, and self-congratulation. As one contemporary proverb based on this perception has it, "Never trust a man who doesn't drink."
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Sinless in Seattle? - 4/9/2008 6:58:03 AM
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Walker311
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quote:
BTW... RCJAMES AND WALKY...
what do you make of Paul's description of the two natures that are at war within him?
I sometimes wonder if IT was a biggy type sin such a lustful thoughts or a small one such as stealing from the money-changers in the temple.
At any rate, you and I do not have to struggle just because Paul did. Was Paul's struggle to the point that his actions actually became sin or was it the same struggle that we contend with in our minds.
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RE: Sinless in Seattle? - 4/9/2008 7:30:40 AM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
Therefore it needs to be crucified daily. And it needs to die daily. And when it is "mortified" we walk after the Spirit, and do not sin or walk after the flesh. Instead we produce the fruit of the Spirit, and that is the same as walking in the Light.
Sinning is a choice (James 1:14,15) but the Christian does not have to make that choice, since the Holy Spirit dwells within and empowers the Christian to resist temptation. But it will cost you. The flesh will have to be crucified.
I agree with you here with one very minor exception. I do not consider it a cost to be obedient to God (crucify the flesh), I consider the ability to crucify the flesh through the power of the Holy Spirit a benefit (a major benefit).
A Christian can choose not to sin, and by the same reasoning they also choose to sin.
All this mumbo jumbo that some espouse about our spirit taking control is just another approach to try and justify our sin and rebellion to God.
Bottom line; the Word tells us not to sin, and tells us we have the ability not to sin, and then asks us how we can call Christ Lord and not do what He says (Luke 6;46)
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Sinless in Seattle? - 4/9/2008 8:28:37 AM
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ta_mosquito
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Moving from FaithWalk to Theology / Christian Doctrine.
Thanks!
Tricia
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