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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 3:00:58 PM
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TomTurn
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Now I have had to update my signature, thanks new messiah
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TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town but not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, actually listened to the pastor for 22 years, whose life did start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 4:09:18 PM
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vajent
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Pat-Rebel is exactly right. There are 'bitter' people everywhere - guns and God have nothing to do with it, or at least shouldn't.
Obama admits his word choice was poor, and he's right; it was. The words he used are not the issue - we all sometimes express things badly. It ain't about the words, it's about the beliefs behind the words. Does Obama believe that 'clinging' to religion and guns is backwards? Does Obama believe that folks who value their right to bear arms base this value on 'bitterness' (that's a very dangerous viewpoint)? Does he believe that a person's deep reliance on God is misplaced? Does he think that regaining trust and confidence in government will (or should) replace clinging to God, guns, and anti-whatever sentiments?
It's one thing for Obama to suggest that people are frustrated by their government's inability to focus on big issues that affect the citizenry. There's nothing controversial about that at all, because this kind of frustration transcends political party, race, economic condition, generations, urban and rural, etc. People may not agree on what needs to change, but there is fairly broad agreement that 'change' is needed. The desire for change is usually fueled by frustration. Obama's problem is that he seemed to imply an either/or grid, where frustration or 'bitterness' with government flows people into God and guns, meaning that if people were no longer bitter about government ineptitude, perhaps God and guns would become less important (or less needed). I don't know if that's what he really meant - that's what he still needs to answer. But clearly if he did mean that, it's a pretty bogus understanding of people's motivations and values.
What Obama should have said was that "people tend to 'rely' on their deap seated beliefs and values when times are difficult, because such values provide needed comfort and stability in an uncertain world - and there's nothing with that. But what I wanna do as president is to restore public confidence in the nation's leadership so that people don't feel so 'let down' by their government." It's not an either/or, it's a both/and. But Obama didn't express it that way, and that's why he's in a little trouble over this. It isn't just his cause and effect word choice. It's the possible cause and effect beliefs underneath the words that are at issue.
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JFF
http://jasonffoster.blogspot.com
Whatever the heart most desires, the mind justifies, and the will chooses.
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 6:37:56 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
What Obama should have said was that "people tend to 'rely' on their deap seated beliefs and values when times are difficult
What the new messiah does not understand is that I rely on my deep seated beliefs and values all the time. The new messiah has went to an angry church for so long he thinks that is normal. He is a socialist / marxist joke and can hit the road with his loser wife!
< Message edited by TomTurn -- 4/14/2008 6:59:22 PM >
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TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town but not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, actually listened to the pastor for 22 years, whose life did start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 7:05:30 PM
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1love1God1way
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Small town American here, clinging to my guns, not out of bitterness. I just like venison.
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love.ben
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 7:06:31 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
quote:
What Obama should have said was that "people tend to 'rely' on their deap seated beliefs and values when times are difficult
What the new messiah does not understand is that I rely on my deep seated beliefs and values all the time. The new messiah has went to an angry church for so long he thinks that is normal. He is a socialist / marxist joke and can hit the road with his loser wife!
You're kind of a bitter fellow there, aintcha?
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love.ben
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 7:19:42 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
You're kind of a bitter fellow there, aintcha?
Yes, so bitter (-:
At least that is what that socialist / marxist clown and his clown wife think. Problem is they have lived in the angry Church so long and are so bitter/hateful against America, they think everyone is like them.
"'Please ignore everything in Obama's statement regarding ''guns'' and ''religion',' you ignorant small-town hicks are not intelligent enough to understand what the new messiah has said"
But then I am just
< Message edited by TomTurn -- 4/14/2008 7:38:59 PM >
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TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town but not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, actually listened to the pastor for 22 years, whose life did start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 7:35:15 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1035
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quote:
What Obama should have said was that "people tend to 'rely' on their deap seated beliefs and values when times are difficult, because such values provide needed comfort and stability in an uncertain world - and there's nothing with that. But what I wanna do as president is to restore public confidence in the nation's leadership so that people don't feel so 'let down' by their government." It's not an either/or, it's a both/and. But Obama didn't express it that way, and that's why he's in a little trouble over this. It isn't just his cause and effect word choice. It's the possible cause and effect beliefs underneath the words that are at issue.
I still can't find a transcript from last night's forum...but here is an excerpt from a CNN article.
"What I was referring to was in no way demeaning a faith that I, myself, embrace. What I was saying is that when economic hardship hits in these communities, what people have is they've got family, they've got their faith, they've got the traditions that have been passed on to them from generation to generation."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/13/forum/index.html#cnnSTCText
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 7:54:47 PM
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TomTurn
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Obama was away from the teleprompter, getting comfortable, just as his wife has done for a long time and said what was really on his mind.
So here are the words
"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,”
Noe he says
"What I was referring to was in no way demeaning a faith that I, myself, embrace. What I was saying is that when economic hardship hits in these communities, what people have is they've got family, they've got their faith, they've got the traditions that have been passed on to them from generation to generation."
Calling people "racist", "anti-immigrant", saying they are just doing what is passed to them is now a good thing? Is he now saying that bearing firearms is our tradition through the 2nd amendment? So he is in full support of the 2nd amendment?
Keep talking you socialsit / marxist clown!
_____________________________
TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town but not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, actually listened to the pastor for 22 years, whose life did start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 7:59:07 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
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TomTurn, you are the angriest person I have ever seen on these boards.
If you dislike Obama, fine. There's no law that says you need to. But your rhetorical rants and name-calling do nothing to refine your political statements into easy-to-relate-to ideas.
I agree that Obama's phrasing in SF was poor, but I don't see anything he said as being off-base. Nor do I see him as slamming anyone.
In fact, your histrionic responses against him (IMO) just prove his point was dead-on.
< Message edited by todd_t -- 4/14/2008 8:08:22 PM >
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 8:14:01 PM
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TomTurn
Posts: 758
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quote:
TomTurn, you are the angriest person I have ever seen on these boards.
That is not anger, that is happy to see this guy show himself more as to who he is and always has been. Keep talking Barack Hussein (oops, he said we were not to use that name) Obama!!!
quote:
But your rhetorical rants and name-calling do nothing to refine your political statements into easy-to-relate-to ideas.
He is the most socialist / maerxist politician we have ever had. He makes Hillary look like a Republican. He votes more left of the only socialist in office. Anyone is free to show me how he is not.
quote:
I agree that Obama's phrasing in SF was poor, but I don't see anything he said as being off-base. Nor do I see him as slamming anyone.
Off course you do not
quote:
In fact, your histrionic responses against him (IMO) just prove his point was dead-on.
Great, because unlike the new messiah I am proud to be who I am and not trying to hide it. TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town, not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, whose life did not start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
Also, since I am just a typical white person from a small town, not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, whose life did not start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies, feel free to tell me what he really meant in these two statements
"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,”
"What I was referring to was in no way demeaning a faith that I, myself, embrace. What I was saying is that when economic hardship hits in these communities, what people have is they've got family, they've got their faith, they've got the traditions that have been passed on to them from generation to generation."
Calling people "racist", "anti-immigrant", saying they are just doing what is passed to them is now a good thing? Is he now saying that bearing firearms is our tradition through the 2nd amendment? So he is in full support of the 2nd amendment?
< Message edited by TomTurn -- 4/14/2008 8:35:33 PM >
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 8:34:53 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
I agree that Obama's phrasing in SF was poor, but I don't see anything he said as being off-base. Nor do I see him as slamming anyone.
quote:
Of course you do not
Any why, pray tell? Wait, let me guess: because I'm a "socialist/Marxist" like Obama? Or then again, maybe I'm an elitist or a commie pinko?
Gee, so many slanderous options to choose from.
Well, no worries. Whichever demeaning label you feel most comfortable using against me, sir, I'm cool with it.
Knock yourself out.
< Message edited by todd_t -- 4/14/2008 8:42:25 PM >
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 8:37:17 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
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quote:
Also, since I am just a typical white person from a small town, not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, whose life did not start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies, feel free to tell me what he really meant in these two statements
Read Obama's clarifications. They're out there on the web.
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 8:37:36 PM
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earthless
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It doesn't take a favored American political party nor an advanced degree from Northwestern to know that Obama's positions and beliefs are indeed left leaning and more left-leaning than the average self-professed liberal Democrat.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 8:50:10 PM
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TomTurn
Posts: 758
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quote:
Any why, pray tell? Wait, let me guess: because I'm a "socialist/Marxist" like Obama? Or then again, maybe I'm an elitist or a commie pinko?
Gee, so many slanderous options to choose from.
Well, no worries. Whichever demeaning label you feel most comfortable using against me, sir, I'm cool with it.
Knock yourself out.
Have no label for you. But that does not remove the fact that Obama is a socialist / marxist. Funny how no one has any proof to show me otherwise. So for him it is not a label but who he is.
quote:
Read Obama's clarifications.
If what he said had not been made public, would he have fessed up to what he said in private and posted clarifications?
And the tag line had to be added to again (-:
_____________________________
TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town but not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, actually listened to the pastor for 22 years, whose life did start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 8:56:05 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
But that does not remove the fact that Obama is a socialist / marxist. Funny how no one has any proof to show me otherwise. So for him it is not a label but who he is.
Somehow, I suspect any such arguments would be quickly rejected by you so I'm not going to waste my time. You are determined to hold fast to your opinion of Obama, and that's fine. It's your opinion, as I have my own.
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 9:10:48 PM
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LivingParadox
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Todd_t
It's kind of funny that you are speaking of "labels" as that's exactly what Obama did in the comments in SF.
Did anyone get how he spoke of "They"? The "great uniter", right? Obama spoke his heart the first time with no clarification needed. Even us small town, gun-toting, uneducated, Bible believing hicks can "git" that...
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 9:18:13 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
Did anyone get how he spoke of "They"? The "great uniter", right? Obama spoke his heart the first time with no clarification needed. Even us small town, gun-toting, uneducated, Bible believing hicks can "git" that...
And once again Hillary is doing the Snoopy dance!
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TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town but not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, actually listened to the pastor for 22 years, whose life did start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 9:19:04 PM
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todd_t
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Does Obama strike you as an unbelievably stupid man? Because he would have to be to to intentionally alienate a portion of his voting bloc as you seem to think was his intention.
Once again, I think Obama's phrasing in SF was poor.
But I do see his point that those who deeply resent the government often find solace in things and concepts they find most comfortable. I see nothing elitist about that idea.
IMO, parsing Obama's statement into specific, politically-charged buzzwords is indigenous, and keeps one from having to place a broader POV onto any statement. In other words, it allows one to keep from thinking.
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 9:21:38 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
It doesn't take a favored American political party nor an advanced degree from Northwestern to know that Obama's positions and beliefs are indeed left leaning and more left-leaning than the average self-professed liberal Democrat.
I think he's just making this stuff as he goe's. That's the problem, he doesnt know that most AA are against abortion and death penalty. Like I said he just doesnt comprehend, he never lived it.
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Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 9:47:36 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
Does Obama strike you as an unbelievably stupid man? Because he would have to be to to intentionally alienate a portion of his voting bloc
You do not have to be unbelivably stupid, just have to have a brief moment of showing who you really are. And when he gets away from the teleprompter he has those moments.
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TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town but not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, actually listened to the pastor for 22 years, whose life did start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 9:49:09 PM
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LivingParadox
Posts: 803
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
It doesn't take a favored American political party nor an advanced degree from Northwestern to know that Obama's positions and beliefs are indeed left leaning and more left-leaning than the average self-professed liberal Democrat.
I think he's just making this stuff as he goe's. That's the problem, he doesnt know that most AA are against abortion and death penalty. Like I said he just doesnt comprehend, he never lived it.
Actually that is the much bigger issue.
There are issues that truly matter that I just don't think Obama understands is important to people of faith. And there are many people of faith that live in small towns, Big cities, farms and underserved urban areas, some wealthy, some poor, some with Harvard education, some with GEDs...but with that said we are ONE because we are Christians who want to see our nation great living up to what glorifies God. No, not a theocracy, just living up to the higher ideas.
< Message edited by LivingParadox -- 4/14/2008 9:56:14 PM >
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 10:06:09 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
There are issues that truly matter that I just don't think Obama understands is important to people of faith
He does not understand "faith". He has aligned himself with a type of Church whose goal is to bring about a socialist / marxist nation through the Church. Christ just becomes a political tool for that end.
And remember a Church that was even too "out there" for Oprah
< Message edited by TomTurn -- 4/14/2008 10:12:20 PM >
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RE: Obama's comments about small-town America - 4/14/2008 10:22:58 PM
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rnershigh
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Every time Obama opens his mouth, he embarrasses himself. He's showing his true colors so I hope he keeps it up. I'm sure this won't be his last mess-up and there will be more to come.
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O Grave! where is thy Victory?
O Death! where is thy Sting?
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