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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 2:15:56 PM
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tacitus
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Having lived through the socialist Labour governments of the 1970s in the UK, I know that all this talk of Obama being a Marxist is utter nonsense. If you tried to tell some of the old Labour party stalwarts from those days, like Tony Benn, that Obama was a socialist, they would just laugh in your face. Even if Obama is elected to two terms as president, America would still be the one of the most conservative western democracies in the world at the end of his second tem, if not still *the* most conservative.
Compared with most democratic nations, America's central political axis is skewed so far to the right that most of the Democratic Party platform would fit right into the policies of the majority of the mainstream right-wing parties in Europe.
Branding Democrats as Marxists, commies, and socialists is little more the use of scare words designed to induce an unthinking Pavlov's dog-style response in voters. Reds under the bed! Reds under the bed!
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 2:19:44 PM
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P31W
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I don't believe you understand the chruch Obama has been a member of for 20 years or who his mentor is.
It's not a scare tactic rather it's a fact. Go do the research yourself to see what Obama professes to have his faith placed in and that he says effects his morals, values and worldview.
It's not "hidden". It's not a secret. Of course if we want to only listen to what he says now we can miss the truth.
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 2:25:43 PM
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tacitus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
A reminder of some Obama campaigners
No, he has no marxist leanings
Yeah right, and how many white supremacists and KKK sympathizers do you think we could dig up among the McCain campaigners if you looked hard enough? I would wager a considerable sum that the answer is more than zero.
I guess that would mean that McCain is a racist.
And since the head of McCain's campaign staff in Arizona (and close personal friend) has been indicted on multiple counts of fraud and embezzlement I guess that McCain is also a suspected felon too? McCain never did sack him or ask him to resign, after all.
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 2:29:05 PM
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P31W
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quote:
Yeah right, and how many white supremacists and KKK sympathizers do you think we could dig up among the McCain campaigners if you looked hard enough?
But Obama is a racist. That is if you believe he believes what his chruch and mentor teaches and what he allows his children to be baptised and indoctrinated into.
"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us, if God is not against white racists, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill gods that do not belong to the black community." [A Black Theology of Liberation, p. 27]
"Black theology cannot accept a view of God which does not represent God as being for oppressed blacks and thus against white oppressors. Living in a world of white oppressors, blacks have no time for a neutral God. The brutalities are too great and the pain too severe, and this means we must know where God is and what God is doing in the revolution. There is no use for a God who loves white oppressors the same as oppressed blacks. We have had too much of white love, the love that tells blacks to turn the other cheek and go the second mile. What we need is the divine love as expressed in black power, which is the power of blacks to destroy their oppressors, here and now, by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject God's love." [A Black Theology of Liberation, p. 70]
< Message edited by P31W -- 4/15/2008 2:39:12 PM >
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 2:30:22 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
Compared with most democratic nations, America's central political axis is skewed so far to the right that most of the Democratic Party platform would fit right into the policies of the majority of the mainstream right-wing parties in Europe.
Am I supposed to be shocked?
Which is why America has been able to grow to such the power it is and many of us would like to see it remain so rather than follow the path of Europe
Thanks for the input from the home of Londonistan
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 2:39:01 PM
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tacitus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
Yeah right, and how many white supremacists and KKK sympathizers do you think we could dig up among the McCain campaigners if you looked hard enough?
But Obama is a racist. That is if you believe he believes what his chruch and mentor teaches and what he allows his children to be baptised and indoctrinated into.
Show me a single quote from Obama from either of his books or any other source in his long career as a public servant that says he supports BLT or the violent overthrow of white America?
No? Not one? Ah well, more whistling in the wind. You can't argue policies so you resort to smearing instead. Nice
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 2:51:02 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
Yeah right, and how many white supremacists and KKK sympathizers do you think we could dig up among the McCain campaigners if you looked hard enough? I would wager a considerable sum that the answer is more than zero.
I guess that would mean that McCain is a racist.
And since the head of McCain's campaign staff in Arizona (and close personal friend) has been indicted on multiple counts of fraud and embezzlement I guess that McCain is also a suspected felon too? McCain never did sack him or ask him to resign, after all.
Start a thread on MCcain and we can hammer on him.
Still does not remove the marxist leanings of BHO and those who support him
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 2:55:48 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 315
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
quote:
Compared with most democratic nations, America's central political axis is skewed so far to the right that most of the Democratic Party platform would fit right into the policies of the majority of the mainstream right-wing parties in Europe.
Am I supposed to be shocked?
Which is why America has been able to grow to such the power it is and many of us would like to see it remain so rather than follow the path of Europe
So you agree with me that calling Obama a Marxist is just dumb... Thanks.
I know this might shock you, but America's place as number one in the world economically and politically is under more serious threat now than it has been for the past 50 years. Europe is increasingly dictating the standards to while products are made, Japanese companies like Nintendo no longer release their products first in the US -- Europe is their preferred market. The Euro is projected to overtake the US Dollar as the world's leading currency within a decade, which would severely impact America's future economic power. Not to mention that the GDP of the EC is now larger than that of the US, so it is the largest economy in the world and the largest exporter. With the rise of China and India, the US could find itself number 4 in the world in a couple more decades.
Politically things may not be as dire, but it will take some time to repair the severe damage to America's political interests inflicted by Bush's Iraq misadventure, but few people would argue that it's political might is anywhere near as strong today as it was a mere 10 years.
I'll ignore the Londonistan insult since it has nothing to do with anything.
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 2:58:30 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2752
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From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
Show me a single quote from Obama from either of his books or any other source in his long career as a public servant that says he supports BLT or the violent overthrow of white America?
The simple fact he stayed in a church for over 20 years is an implicit endorsement of its beliefs. I left my last church simply b/c the elders decided they wanted to be seeker-sensitive rather than to be discipleship driven.
Barry has been steeped in this doctrine for over 20 years and it must have affected his beliefs. If he was opposed to what was being proclaimed from the pulpit he would have left that church. There are numerous bible-believing churches in the Chicago area, I am sure he could of found on that is more mainline in its doctine.
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 3:00:56 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
So you agree with me that calling Obama a Marxist is just dumb... Thanks
He has marxist leanings and each day they are revealed a bit more.
Londonistan has everything to do with this. We do not want to follow the same path, which was helped brought about by the U.K. changes in the 70's you mention.
“We are no longer just a Christian nation, we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.”
Am also an American versed in Enoch Powell. Quite the visionary.
< Message edited by TomTurn -- 4/15/2008 3:24:25 PM >
_____________________________
TomTurn, "a typical white person from a small town but not in a Christian nation, who clings to God, owns guns, actually listened to the pastor for 22 years, whose life did start at conception and whose mother was punished with 3 babies"
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 3:01:42 PM
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tacitus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
Start a thread on MCcain and we can hammer on him.
Still does not remove the marxist leanings of BHO and those who support him
Well, since you're not interested in backing up your ridiculous remarks with anything resembling a coherent argument (you're not Anne Coulter by any chance?) then I don't see the point in continuing to engage you.
I used to think that a Christian message board would be a great place for a real political discussion, but I guess I was sadly mistaken.
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 3:06:32 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 315
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Show me a single quote from Obama from either of his books or any other source in his long career as a public servant that says he supports BLT or the violent overthrow of white America?
Barry has been steeped in this doctrine for over 20 years and it must have affected his beliefs. If he was opposed to what was being proclaimed from the pulpit he would have left that church. There are numerous bible-believing churches in the Chicago area, I am sure he could of found on that is more mainline in its doctine.
Again, all supposition without evidence. Has even Reverend Wright ever written or spoken advocating for the violent overthrow of white America? Surely in all his long career in the pulpit you can find one example? (His "God *** America remark doesn't count since Falwell and dozens of other pastors have made similar comments about God's wrath on America though a little less artlessly).
Obama has spoken out on numerous times against such beliefs. You just refuse to listen to what he has to say on the subject, preferring to believe the unfounded prejudices of others.
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 3:23:44 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
Well, since you're not interested in backing up your ridiculous remarks with anything resembling a coherent argument (you're not Anne Coulter by any chance?) then I don't see the point in continuing to engage you.
Oh, the Ann Coulter comment! Was wondering when that would be pulled. The last bullet of a liberal losing an argumnet.
What ridiculous remarks? Posting BHO words?
quote:
I used to think that a Christian message board would be a great place for a real political discussion, but I guess I was sadly mistaken
Meaning, "you will not play the game the way I want"
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 4:15:45 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2752
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From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
Obama has spoken out on numerous times against such beliefs. You just refuse to listen to what he has to say on the subject, preferring to believe the unfounded prejudices of others.
Much has been written about BLT and Trinity United Church of Christ embracement of its doctrine. The mission statement of the church focuses on the word "black."
Barry has said that he wants to be a uniter of the races but he has attended a church that focuses on the black race for over 20 years. His church has done nothing to alieviate the race divide but perpetuate that divided.
If he was so against BLT and what was being preached from the pulpit why did he stay there so long? Was it simply to be politically expediant? Or, much more likely, he has bought hook, line, and sinker into its doctrine?
Also, he went to a known terrorist to seek the man's blessings in launching his political career. But he continues to say nothing negative about the man or his actions.
He is a flim-flam man who will say anything to anybody to get elected. The sad thing is the majority of the populace have been so dumbed down by the public shool system and it's beliefs they believe he is he messiah who will bring the needed change.
< Message edited by colliefan -- 4/15/2008 4:36:06 PM >
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 4:18:59 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
He is a flim-flam man who will say anything to anybody to get elected.
And throw grandma under the bus
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 5:52:23 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
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quote:
Show me a single quote from Obama from either of his books or any other source in his long career as a public servant that says he supports BLT or the violent overthrow of white America?
No? Not one? Ah well, more whistling in the wind. You can't argue policies so you resort to smearing instead. Nice
Yep! I understand you. I have been a member of the KKK for 20 years now. My mentor is the KKK leader.(talk about someone who can put down blacks!!! Man can he "do it"). My children are both active members as well.
But you have not hear me say "one racist thing" in public.
Signed,
Typical white woman in Mississippi 
< Message edited by P31W -- 4/15/2008 6:00:52 PM >
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 8:24:48 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
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From: The North Woods
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Tacitus: Would you please email me at "pietro1968b@yahoo.com"? There's something I want to ask off-board.
Thanks!
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 9:51:59 PM
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relady
Posts: 1279
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From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
Not all funds provided to veterans are a good thing. Some are good and needed others are a waste and undeserved. Such as?
quote:
But I realize that without them, the operations of all public services grind to a halt. And without them (police/fire, education, public works, military, health programs, etc) we might as well be living in the 18th century. But what you don't understand here is that to a lazzez faire capitalist those were the good ole days and the sooner we can return to them the better.
quote:
You would have to travel to smaller towns, you know those towns where we cling to religion and guns. I'll pass, thanks. Been there, done that, ran for the "door" at my first chance. No desire to ever return. I found that to be VERY true in a very ugly sort of way.
BTW, the Golden Gate Bridge DOES get government subsidies to help with funding.
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 9:56:43 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1642
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
Show me a single quote from Obama from either of his books or any other source in his long career as a public servant that says he supports BLT or the violent overthrow of white America?
No? Not one? Ah well, more whistling in the wind. You can't argue policies so you resort to smearing instead. Nice
Yep! I understand you. I have been a member of the KKK for 20 years now. My mentor is the KKK leader.(talk about someone who can put down blacks!!! Man can he "do it"). My children are both active members as well.
But you have not hear me say "one racist thing" in public.
Signed,
Typical white woman in Mississippi
Wow, P31W, it took me a minute. I think it's bed time for me. I get it now though. Great point!
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 10:49:10 PM
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TomTurn
Posts: 758
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quote:
Such as?
Revamp many 20 year retirements. Too many funds wasted on that to officers who obtained educations and no risk duty when those funds could be better used. Things along those lines. Way too complicated for me to explain in a few sentences
quote:
BTW, the Golden Gate Bridge DOES get government subsidies to help with funding.
I stand corrected
quote:
I'll pass, thanks. Been there, done that, ran for the "door" at my first chance. No desire to ever return. I found that to be VERY true in a very ugly sort of way.
You are missed (-:
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/15/2008 11:28:47 PM
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ken1906_4
Posts: 271
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Maryland
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Show me a single quote from Obama from either of his books or any other source in his long career as a public servant that says he supports BLT or the violent overthrow of white America?
Barry has been steeped in this doctrine for over 20 years and it must have affected his beliefs. If he was opposed to what was being proclaimed from the pulpit he would have left that church. There are numerous bible-believing churches in the Chicago area, I am sure he could of found on that is more mainline in its doctine.
Again, all supposition without evidence. Has even Reverend Wright ever written or spoken advocating for the violent overthrow of white America? Surely in all his long career in the pulpit you can find one example? (His "God *** America remark doesn't count since Falwell and dozens of other pastors have made similar comments about God's wrath on America though a little less artlessly).
Obama has spoken out on numerous times against such beliefs. You just refuse to listen to what he has to say on the subject, preferring to believe the unfounded prejudices of others.
Tacitus, this comment is going to fall on death ears, blind eyes and closed minds. I've mentioned something like this in 2 other threads and it was either ignored or was given the following response, "none of the candidates were under that ministry for 20 years". People choose to ignore the fact that Wright's comments is tamed compared to some of these other folks. It's not about how he said it, or what he said, it's the person who said it that is making people mad. How dare this black man talk about America like this. How dare him pull America’s card for her sins against humanity. He can't do that!!!! I digress.
Anyway, no I don't agree with some of Obama's stances on issues, but to label him as an Islamic, racist, Marxist Manchurian candidate is nothing more than a scare tactic. God did not give us a spirit of fear, but its fear that is driving our decisions.
< Message edited by ken1906_4 -- 4/15/2008 11:34:53 PM >
_____________________________
"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ."
True colors are being revealed
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/16/2008 8:08:20 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
Obama has spoken out on numerous times against such beliefs.
Yep! I understand you. I have been a member of the KKK for 20 years now. My mentor is the KKK leader.(talk about someone who can put down blacks!!! Man can he "do it"). My children are both active members as well.
But you have not hear me say "one racist thing" in public.
I have spoken out many times about how I disagree with my mentor's and klan's beliefs
Signed,
Typical white woman in Mississippi
Yall vote for me know that i have said the right "words". Don't you dare judge me for my actions!!!!!
]Just incase any of you are ingorant to what Obama's church believes and teaches and his mentor believes and teaches on the topic of Marxism here is a snippet from http://www.campusactivism.org/akreider/essays/libtheo1.txt
James Cone
According to Cone, Marxism had been neglected because it has
been associated with racist whites (Cone 273), viewed as a fringe
ideology, associated with Russia in a time of anticommunism,
viewed as atheist and a direct threat to Christianity, and seen
as overly sectarian (Cone 176-178). In face of these negatives,
Cone's interest in Marxism was renewed through contact with Latin
American theology (Cone 177). From there he began to recognize
the validity of the Marxist critique, agreeing that Christianity
had been used as an opium of the masses (Cone 181). Furthermore
he affirms that black liberation theology is in clear support of
the poor: "All proponents of liberation theology contend that the
masses are not poor by accident. They are made and kept poor by
the rich and powerful few." (Cone 393) Finally Cone directly
affirms black theology and being compatible with Marxist
political values: "No one can be a follower of Jesus Christ
without a political commitment that expresses one's solidarity
with victims." (Cone 187)
If Obama is too stupid to realize that for 20 years this IS what his chruch and mentor have been advocating then he is certainly too stupid to be President.
If Obama cares so little for his children that he "used" this chruch for votes while allowing his children's minds to be sacrificed - then he is to evil to be our President.
< Message edited by P31W -- 4/16/2008 8:24:13 AM >
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/16/2008 1:25:21 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1035
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
Anyway, no I don't agree with some of Obama's stances on issues, but to label him as an Islamic, racist, Marxist Manchurian candidate is nothing more than a scare tactic. God did not give us a spirit of fear, but its fear that is driving our decisions.
Exactly.
The politics of fear and ignorance.
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/16/2008 1:29:32 PM
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TomTurn
Posts: 758
Joined: 3/13/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
Anyway, no I don't agree with some of Obama's stances on issues, but to label him as an Islamic, racist, Marxist Manchurian candidate is nothing more than a scare tactic. God did not give us a spirit of fear, but its fear that is driving our decisions.
Exactly.
The politics of fear and ignorance.
Obama is showing himself a socialist / marxist through his words and actions. To point it out and agree with him by calling him such is not "labeling" or a "scare tactic"
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RE: Obama's Marxism? - 4/16/2008 3:24:15 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1964
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
Obama is showing himself a socialist / marxist through his words and actions. To point it out and agree with him by calling him such is not "labeling" or a "scare tactic"
Look Senator McCarthy, the Cold War's been over for 20 years, now. Everybody knows that Marxism is dead.
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