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Goth Culture - 4/13/2008 11:44:49 PM
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fallenstar
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The kids have this thing going on, it's really not new, it's been aroud since the 50's and went by a different name (beatnics) and now it's called "goth". I have this younger cousin, her name is Olivia, and she was raised in a Baptist home. She went to youth group on Sunday nights, dressed in colors, had the same intrests in tv and music as the other kids, she was pretty much what you would say normal. I had'nt seen her for 5 years, and when I saw her this weekend I was shocked. She had on these huge, black combat boots, a flowing black layered skirt that went a few inches past her knees, and a black hoodie with a big ANGEL CORPSE writing printed on the front. She had pierced her lip and her eyebrow. I was thinking "WHAT HAPPENED'??? I did'nt say anything, (I was going to hang out with her for a day) but I followed her to her car (I forgot to say she's 18, college student). I went with her to her appartment, and she had a crystal ball on her coffee table and all sorts of heavy metal cds, with artists like marilyn manson and hatebreed. Her home smelled like incense. I did'nt really see anything in there that was Christian. She watches anime, like deathnote and blood+. I asked Olivia about the crystal ball, and she told me "It's just for decoration, but somtimes I wonder if it really works". I'm not saying I dissapprove of the Goth culture, because I do know a few people who are goth, or as some call themselves "non-conformists" and they are still Christians. I did'nt think she was weird when I first saw her, just shocked at the dramatic change in style. The thing that really worried me was that crystal ball. Do you know anybody who is "Goth", and still a Christian? What Christian artists make hard rock Christian music? Any comments or stories are appreciated.
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/14/2008 12:29:08 AM
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happyhippie
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I know that Sanctuary Church in LA has a huge Goth ministry and there is a Goth ministry in Orlando. I had friends who went to be missionaries to the Goths in Orlando and came home with their tails between their legs because they got their tushes kicked in by their own prejudices. Some of those kids knew their bibles 100 times more than my friends.
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/14/2008 2:27:43 AM
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Hayseed
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Actually, the Sanctuary that ministers to a lot of (it's not all a "Goth" ministry) is in San Diego.
What I'm wondering is why can't her answer about the crystal ball be taken as she said it? It's a glass sphere and has no inherent power.
_____________________________
My entire goal in life is to live exactly like the man who was falsely accused of being a drunkard, heretic and a friend of sinners by the religious people. So, don't be surprised if I'm not too concerned if you think ill of me.
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/14/2008 3:15:16 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3430
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From: my mom by God
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I think your answer might be found in my question...
how many 50 yr old goths are there?
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/14/2008 6:14:47 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 977
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:
Do you know anybody who is "Goth", and still a Christian? Yes... several, in fact. One of them became a missionary on an Indian reservation, now that I think about it. I almost went Goth for a while, but my parents would have thrown a fit. I love Metalcore music, and I do like the clothing style... but the whole shtick just isn't for me.quote:
What Christian artists make hard rock Christian music? Depends on how hard you want to go. Just for starters:
Norma Jean
Demon Hunter
The Chariot
Haste the Day
He Is Legend
Bloodlined Calligraphy
Zao
Eso-Charis
Watashi Wa
Crash Rickshaw
Underoath
Emery
Spoken
There are a ton more, but like I said... it depends how hard you want to go.quote:
I went with her to her appartment, and she had a crystal ball on her coffee table and all sorts of heavy metal cds, with artists like marilyn manson and hatebreed. Her home smelled like incense. I did'nt really see anything in there that was Christian. She watches anime, like deathnote and blood+. I asked Olivia about the crystal ball, and she told me "It's just for decoration, but somtimes I wonder if it really works". Okay, one at a time...
1) Depending on the artist, there is nothing inherently wrong with Metal music... That being said, Manson and Hatebreed have some serious issues.
2) Incense is just a fancy word for perfume that you burn. Once again, could be nothing... but it can be used to cover up the smell of marijuana, in occultic worship, or even in Davidic worship of God (think OT temple).
3) Crystal balls... they are glass orbs. If a spherical peice of fired carbon is inherently evil, we should be burning marbles. Once again, could be completely innocent and innocuous or could be symbolic of the occult. Since she said it is just for decoration I would be inclined to believe her... she doesn't have a good reason to lie. But I will hand it to you, the entire picture doesn't make her look very good.
I won't tell you to relax because (A) I think that would be a mistake and (B) you wouldn't anyway. The best thing you can do is to pray Ephesians 1:17-19 for her... there is not a single person on this planet who does not have a use for Wisdom and Revelation.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/14/2008 8:02:06 AM
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happyhippie
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Great post furlovin
_____________________________
Maybe the glass is neither half full or half empty. Maybe it is just cracked.
Bad Cop; no donut.
If you are happy and you know it, leave me alone
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/14/2008 8:56:19 AM
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Sun_Tzu
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
The kids have this thing going on, it's really not new, it's been aroud since the 50's and went by a different name (beatnics) and now it's called "goth".
No goth and beatnicks are two totally seperate and distinct sub-cultures.
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/14/2008 9:31:24 AM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sun_Tzu
quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
The kids have this thing going on, it's really not new, it's been aroud since the 50's and went by a different name (beatnics) and now it's called "goth".
No goth and beatnicks are two totally seperate and distinct sub-cultures.
This is true.
There are certainly Christian goths.
There is a Christian goth band called Saviour Machine, but anyone who enjoys true goth music probably won't like them.
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/14/2008 1:49:16 PM
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1love1God1way
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Simple fact is, goth, like most other subcultures, is a craze that is mostly focused around fashion, but with a stigma of death and depression (which may be true for some, but is not absolute).
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love.ben
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/14/2008 6:07:32 PM
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Sun_Tzu
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
Simple fact is, goth, like most other subcultures, is a craze that is mostly focused around fashion, but with a stigma of death and depression (which may be true for some, but is not absolute).
This one seconds this.
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/15/2008 1:26:54 AM
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sunshine4God
Posts: 6974
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Sterling Ct.
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I have a good friend who is goth but denies it.She says she is emo and just likes the color black. I disagree because she is totally goth looking.
I think alot of people just dress a certain way to get attention or because its just a phase.
_____________________________
Matthew 5:16.
"Let your light so shine before men that they will see
your good deeds and glorify your Lord".
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/15/2008 9:29:01 PM
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Real_Solitude
Posts: 390
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshine4God
I have a good friend who is goth but denies it.She says she is emo and just likes the color black. I disagree because she is totally goth looking.
I think alot of people just dress a certain way to get attention or because its just a phase.
goth
n.
1. A style of rock music, noted especially for somber or ethereal tones and lugubrious lyrics.
2. A performer or follower of this style of music.
Goth is a distinct sub-culture based on music. Emo is a distinct sub-culture based on music. There's a separate group of people that are in it just for the clothes and popularity. They share a lot of characteristics, but Goth and Emo are music-based. If you don't like (for instance) The Bauhaus, you're not goth. If you don't like Rites of Spring, you're not emo.
_____________________________
"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself."
~Faye Valentine
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/15/2008 9:36:58 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2388
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Real_Solitude
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshine4God
I have a good friend who is goth but denies it.She says she is emo and just likes the color black. I disagree because she is totally goth looking.
I think alot of people just dress a certain way to get attention or because its just a phase.
goth
n.
1. A style of rock music, noted especially for somber or ethereal tones and lugubrious lyrics.
2. A performer or follower of this style of music.
Goth is a distinct sub-culture based on music. Emo is a distinct sub-culture based on music. There's a separate group of people that are in it just for the clothes and popularity. They share a lot of characteristics, but Goth and Emo are music-based. If you don't like (for instance) The Bauhaus, you're not goth. If you don't like Rites of Spring, you're not emo.
Eh. As I have stated, I think it has moved a lot into fashion as well as music. Music still plays a big role, but I had a goth friend who was a concert saxophonist.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/15/2008 10:19:04 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Being goth and being a concert saxophonist aren't exclusive of one another.
Right, but if the goth movement is solely based on music, well, that just doesn't line up too well. . .
I mean, this kid slept in a coffin for crying out loud.
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love.ben
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/15/2008 11:55:43 PM
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sunshine4God
Posts: 6974
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Sterling Ct.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Real_Solitude
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshine4God
I have a good friend who is goth but denies it.She says she is emo and just likes the color black. I disagree because she is totally goth looking.
I think alot of people just dress a certain way to get attention or because its just a phase.
goth
n.
1. A style of rock music, noted especially for somber or ethereal tones and lugubrious lyrics.
2. A performer or follower of this style of music.
Goth is a distinct sub-culture based on music. Emo is a distinct sub-culture based on music. There's a separate group of people that are in it just for the clothes and popularity. They share a lot of characteristics, but Goth and Emo are music-based. If you don't like (for instance) The Bauhaus, you're not goth. If you don't like Rites of Spring, you're not emo.
Thanks for the explanation.
_____________________________
Matthew 5:16.
"Let your light so shine before men that they will see
your good deeds and glorify your Lord".
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/16/2008 1:23:31 AM
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Real_Solitude
Posts: 390
Joined: 5/9/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
Right, but if the goth movement is solely based on music, well, that just doesn't line up too well. . .
I mean, this kid slept in a coffin for crying out loud.
Anyone who is 'actually' goth is as defined above. For people who get heavily into either scene, things leak over from the lives of the artists, or from the music. For instance, "Goths" as a term to describe a group of people came about in 1982, quite as a joke, actually. Andi Sex-Gang, the lead singer of early Goth band "The Sex Gang Children" used to dress up in a big, dark, gothic warchief outfit. It became somewhat of a joke. Ian Astbury of the Goth band "Southern Death Cult" made a joke in an interview with Dave Thompson and Jo-Anne Green of "Alternative Press." He stated that Andi Sex-Gang should be called "Count Visigoth," because of his stage appearance, and thus all of his followers should be called "gothic pixies" or "goths".
The fashion basically took off because of the dark dress of the artists. A lot of the appreciation for the 'darker culture' came about because of the same thing. I mean, perhaps the most known goth song of all time (excluding the semi-goth band The Cure") would be "Bella Lugosi's Dead" by the Bauhaus. There are a lot of connections to the 'darker' side of things in goth music that might lead a fan to add weird little things to their lives. But like I said, the most prominent things like the clothes came from the artists.
Other stuff that is associated with the goth movement came about as a result of the New Romantics movement, who were basically goths but focused on the aesthetic and intellectual aspects of the darker sides of human culture instead. That's where a lot of the association with dark fiction, vampires, etc... came from, not the gothic movement. Of course, the media screwed it all up because the two were superficially similar, and soon anyone who wore black was being labeled goth. (Or more recently, Emo).
_____________________________
"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself."
~Faye Valentine
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/16/2008 1:32:17 AM
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1love1God1way
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The modern sense of the term may be from 1982, but Goths have been around since the 3rd century. . .and it wasn't because they liked death metal.
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love.ben
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/16/2008 9:58:20 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4222
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LOL...those are different goths. Or Goths, rather.
Real's history is quite accurate and very concise.  "Bela Lugosi's Dead" could probably be considered a goth anthem. That's such a good CD...but I digress. To say that goth culture is driven by music may be true, but that doesn't mean goths only listen to one kind of music. That's silly.
quote:
Of course, the media screwed it all up because the two were superficially similar, and soon anyone who wore black was being labeled goth. (Or more recently, Emo).
I'm sitting here thinking about goths and emo kids and how anyone could confuse the two is beyond me. Also, how anyone can say, "Oh you wear black, you must be goth" is also beyond me. They're both so distinctive. Emo and sk8er kids are more alike, really. Plus, goth is rather timeless and hopefully you will have outgrown your emo phase by the time you're 25. Hopefully. 
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/16/2008 10:32:05 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
I think your answer might be found in my question...
how many 50 yr old goths are there?
LOL!
Like 60 year-old hippies (although, there might actually be a few).
The 60 year old hippied all moved to my neighborhood.
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/17/2008 11:45:23 AM
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miasma
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I know plenty of 40, 50, 60 and 70 year old "hippies."
I also know plenty of first-wave goths, well into their 40s and 50s.
It's Bauhaus, not "The Bauhaus."
And they certainly don't have anything to do with beatniks.
And there's a myriad of differences between "emo" and goth. And goths and Visigoths.
I'm not even going to address the other misconceptions/information.
I did, coincidentally, just read this today (something I already knew)
It's every parent's nightmare. Their apparently well-adjusted child suddenly comes home with hair the colour of a coalface, a face whiter than anything made by Dulux, and announces, "Mummy, I'm a goth." However, according to a new study, parents of goths will probably end up boasting about their son/daughter the doctor, lawyer or bank manager. That is the surprising finding of Sussex University's Dunja Brill, whose doctorate in media and cultural studies looked at people with funny hair and eyeliner in London, Brighton and Cologne, and who is herself a former goth. "Most youth subcultures encourage people to drop out of school and do illegal things," she says. "Most goths are well educated, however. They hardly ever drop out and are often the best pupils. The subculture encourages interest in classical education, especially the arts. I'd say goths are more likely to make careers in web design, computer programming ... even journalism."
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http://wiawa.wordpress.com/
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RE: Goth Culture - 4/17/2008 3:54:16 PM
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designed
Posts: 228
Joined: 12/21/2007
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quote:
miasma-
know plenty of 40, 50, 60 and 70 year old "hippies."
I also know plenty of first-wave goths, well into their 40s and 50s.
It's Bauhaus, not "The Bauhaus."
And they certainly don't have anything to do with beatniks.
And there's a myriad of differences between "emo" and goth. And goths and Visigoths.
I'm not even going to address the other misconceptions/information.
Well now that we have all that perfectly cleared up  .
If it were a child of mine/young loved one, I would have some concern. I try my best not to generalize groups of people but there just are some areas of lifestyle that can easily seep into slippery territory. And my concern would stem from the experiences and relationships I had as a teenager. Many of my friends (I fell in somewhere amongst these myriad of labels) were into a lot of the gothic sub-culture, punk rock, alternative, hippy, etc. How could one forget the lovely haunting melodies of Bauhaus and Dead Can Dance  . As surely as there are many youngins that go through mere fashion phases that deam them to be labeled a goth or whatever else their look ascribes them to, there are others who go deep into their created personas(that’s where my concern would start, especially if it was coupled with other drastic changes in habits/behaviours) and unhealthy practices can arise. As said before, I’m not generalizing every so called goth-esk kid as doomed to dabble in occult activity or substance abuse, but these things do happen to be found in many subculture circles.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:35
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
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