RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adult son for refusing to goto church?
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Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adult son for refusing to goto church?
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Total Votes : 79
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(last vote on : 5/5/2008 12:34:43 PM)
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/19/2008 12:21:48 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
People change their minds. Parents change their minds. It's life. Only the 10 Commandments were written in stone.
Yes they do... Yet what is right and just is always the same, as well what is wrong and unjust... And that is written in the Word of God and cannot be revoked.
quote:
And if you judge a parent for changing their mind as a liar (which I find remarkable) it does NOT suspend the injunction to honor parents.
If you scroll back I spoke of the fact he should honor his parent... Of course who is held more accountable? The Christian parent, or the non-believing son in regards to God's law?
quote:
To borrow a phrase from an old saint, "It's never right to do wrong to do right."
My point from the start...
John
John,
From the stance you are taking, the mother should just go ahead and evict him. That keeps her from telling lies, but she will be following the bible. The bible says to let him go and let the world deal with him. No?
On what grounds should she evict him?
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 12:36:08 PM
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sjd2008
Posts: 152
Joined: 1/29/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I do not believe I was attacking your intellengence, just wondering why you cannot live on your own, work, and still go to school as millions of other Americans do?
Thsnks
RC
RC, there may be very tangible reasons why he can't work.
Finding a job (they're not as plentiful as they used to be)
His government grants may not allow him to make a certain amount of money.
Some students have schedules that don't allow for optimum employment
He may also be a first year student, making adjustments to a new learning environment.
I am NOT trying to make excuses for Zedd. Just pointing out that there may be factors in actually getting a job and living space that may preclude him from moving out on his own.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 12:41:44 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
I'm sorry but I do not believe any where on your birth certificate or any other documentation youhave it says you have the authority to make a statement as to what does or does not come from the Holy Spirit.
I have same authority to claim it's not as those who claim it is...
I don't believe the Holy Spirit will convict a believer to commit sin... Do you?
quote:
You are the one that does not get what is going on here.
I stand by every word I posted and can support my point(s) with Scripture, can you? So far you haven’t...
You don't seem to understand that you can't except the son(who doesn't believe) to act in a Christ like manner when his mother allegedly isn't... It's quite obvious the son see the hypocrisy if what he's saying is true...
quote:
You and a few others are quick to judge the mother and you do not have all the facts involved. IOW you do not know enough to make these statements.
I am commenting on what is being posted not what I think it might be, or what I what it to be... As far as I am concerned this is nothing more than a giant hypothetical question and this is a forum for the exchange of ideas. IOW, I am simply following the guidelines of the forum and in the past I have seen the leadership of this site tell folks to keep their post centered on what it posted not what might be...
As for passing judgment on the mother... Unfounded… If she broke her word she brought judgment upon herself… My posting of what should be the obvious, " Christian above all others should keep their word" isn't passing judgment no less than if I made the comment that a murderer is wrong for unlawfully taking a life...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 12:43:20 PM
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sjd2008
Posts: 152
Joined: 1/29/2008
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Zedd,
Have you considered a compromise on church?
Here are a couple of suggestions:
1- Agree to go every other week. This way she feels that she has won something.
2- Try another church. I have never gone to a Quaker service. However, I have read some descriptions of their services. Frankly, I would have a hard time sitting through some of them...As someone else has said, not all churches are the same.
The idea behind compromise is that both sides win and lose a little. You may find that if yoy give a little that she will be less harsh on you.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 12:46:19 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rnershigh
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
Zedd, refresh my memory--what is preventing you from moving into your own place?
I wouldn't be able to invest as much time as I'd like into school without going into debt if I were 100% independent.
I might not be able to invest any time into school if I were 100% independent.
I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but if that's the case you may want to bite your lip and go to church to placate your mother. If you can't afford it, and don't wish to incur the expenses to find a place of your own (could you share with someone? That helps keeps costs down, and many college students do that) then you will have to abide by your mom's changed rules.
Why shold he abide by rules when the mother doesn't have to?
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 12:54:42 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
Solution, the same as everyone else said, move into your own place. Learn a little bit more about life.
I wonder what he's learning here...
So far...
Christians can revoke agreements as they see fit...
It's ok for Christians parents to play the "do as I say not as I do" game and it's ok because it's their house...
One can comment unlawful violence if they feel like it...
The Holy Spirit can convict a believer to sin...
And all in the name of God...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/19/2008 12:56:21 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
quote:
Just because he does'nt go to church does'nt mean he is'nt a Christian, everybody has their own way to worship God.
He said he's not a christian. They aren't forcing him to be a christian. They are making church a condition for free room and board. I suspect that this came up in the heat of an agruement. Just a guess.
They are making church a condition for free room and board after they already agreed it wouldn't be... That's a HUGE distinction...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 12:58:11 PM
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Zedd
Posts: 33
Joined: 4/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
And as far as your attacks on my intelligence go, give it a rest. Anyone who reads this thread with the exception of you it seems can see I have no trouble articulating my feelings on this issue into a moral argument. A third of your community even agrees with me.
I do not believe I was attacking your intellengence, just wondering why you cannot live on your own, work, and still go to school as millions of other Americans do?
Thsnks
RC
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
You said you were in college; how did you pass the entrance exam.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 12:58:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: rnershigh
I'm pretty saddened to see the sniping remarks directed at Zedd. I have read all his posts and no where has he been the least rude, but honest with his answers.
Actually, from what I've read of his posts, he and his mom are a lot a like. They both apparently think they are right and the other one is wrong and they aren't going to budge on the issue.
I agree... Now who should "do the right thing" first and above all? Who is held far more accountable in this situation.
A. The Christian parent
B. The unbelieving son
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 4:19:50 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5799
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
RC, there may be very tangible reasons why he can't work.
Finding a job (they're not as plentiful as they used to be)
His government grants may not allow him to make a certain amount of money.
Some students have schedules that don't allow for optimum employment
He may also be a first year student, making adjustments to a new learning environment.
I am NOT trying to make excuses for Zedd. Just pointing out that there may be factors in actually getting a job and living space that may preclude him from moving out on his own.
Lame excuses I know many a first year student who support themselves and attend college full time.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 4:22:26 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5799
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From: Oklahoma
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Zed, it you were able to pass the SAT or the CEEb they you ought to be able to figure out how to support yourself and get your education; without living off of your folks.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/19/2008 4:24:06 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5799
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
They are making church a condition for free room and board after they already agreed it wouldn't be... That's a HUGE distinction...
Sorry, but we do not know that except from the complaints of the oP.
And from his overall attitude and complaining post; i personally have doubts.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/19/2008 5:24:58 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 3028
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From: just north of Florida
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I agree with RC on this count. There is a reason why she changed the agreement. We cannot judge it without knowing the reason why. I see people change agreements all the time when issues that were not visible at first, later come to light.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/19/2008 5:27:32 PM
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meerkat
Posts: 27
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline
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Qtman,
quote:
I got a news flash for you. Anybody that comes to stay in my house, I don't care if it is family or just friends, they come under my rules. Bibically I am the head of my household. If you don't like it remove yourself from my household.
Would you say to those people visinting your house. No you do not have to go to church ---- then change your mind and make it a requirement later. Do you think your visitors would respect you? Do you think that is honest?
I think learning to get on with other people involves a bit more than - this is my way, do it, or the highway.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/19/2008 5:56:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
I agree with RC on this count. There is a reason why she changed the agreement. We cannot judge it without knowing the reason why. I see people change agreements all the time when issues that were not visible at first, later come to light.
For instance? What could have changed that would allow his mother to change her mind...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 5:59:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
RC, there may be very tangible reasons why he can't work.
Finding a job (they're not as plentiful as they used to be)
His government grants may not allow him to make a certain amount of money.
Some students have schedules that don't allow for optimum employment
He may also be a first year student, making adjustments to a new learning environment.
I am NOT trying to make excuses for Zedd. Just pointing out that there may be factors in actually getting a job and living space that may preclude him from moving out on his own.
Lame excuses I know many a first year student who support themselves and attend college full time.
Thanks
RC
Viable reasons for the people that are dealing with them...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/19/2008 6:09:25 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Sorry, but we do not know that except from the complaints of the oP.
I for one wouldn't be surprised if it were the case and I support my view with the reaction from folks her who see no issue with breaking their word under the guides of; perogative, my house, my rules, and that's the way life is...
My mom said never do business with a company that has a "fish" on it and now I know why...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/19/2008 6:34:24 PM
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meerkat
Posts: 27
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline
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Zedd,
As someone said there is always 2 sides to a story. Getting along with people is give and take. It seems to me that there could be some personality clash between your mom and you. Is it right for her to force her way of thinking on you? is it right for you to force your way of thinking on her? Your mom has a right to her opinions, beliefs and has a right to express them. You also have a right to your opinions, beliefs and have a right to express them. What can get difficult for a parent/(child,teenager,adult) relationship is where the parents roll of training the child and need of the child/teenager/adult for independence overlap. I think that is where you are at the moment.
While I don't think that it is honest to reneg on an agreement your mom sounds like she wants to do the best that she can do for you from her perspective. If honesty is the issue for you I think you should talk that over with your mother and express your opinion on it rather than just reacting to comments that you don't like when she makes them and possibly her reacting to comments that you make that she doesn't like.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/19/2008 6:53:48 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: meerkat
While I don't think that it is honest to reneg on an agreement your mom sounds like she wants to do the best that she can do for you from her perspective.
Someone really needs to explain to Zedd's mother that living a Christian life is the best thing she can do for her son...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 8:48:09 PM
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sjd2008
Posts: 152
Joined: 1/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
RC, there may be very tangible reasons why he can't work.
Finding a job (they're not as plentiful as they used to be)
His government grants may not allow him to make a certain amount of money.
Some students have schedules that don't allow for optimum employment
He may also be a first year student, making adjustments to a new learning environment.
I am NOT trying to make excuses for Zedd. Just pointing out that there may be factors in actually getting a job and living space that may preclude him from moving out on his own.
Lame excuses I know many a first year student who support themselves and attend college full time.
Thanks
RC
RC-
Not necessarily, just because some students can doesn't mean that ALL students can. Grnts can be restrictive based on family income. Seriously, RC, you're not a college counselor. Neither am I. However, I am familiar enough with granting programs that there are some income limitations. If he's still being claimed as a dependent on either of his parent's tax forms,he may not be able to make enough money to survive on his own. We simply don't know his exact circumstances. These are not lame excuses, but tangible reasons why going independent may not work for everyone.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/19/2008 10:45:15 PM
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Qtman
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
I hear this a lot, but i have never met one who did this and did it while going to school full time - well I had one friend who did a 3 year killl me program, but even she wasn't fully indpendent, she had a husband supporting her and was 35 years old. And she did not do it without debt. I have never met a young adult who was able to fully support themselves and go the traditional college route and finish in the normal time frame with no debt. Usually something has to give and if they have a full time job it is usually college that takes longer. Nothing wrong with that, but I would never force my child into that kind of decision over going to church.
Then allow me to introduce myself. I started college in 1976 the same year my youngest daughter was born. I attended college carrying a full course load and worked 40 to 48 hours a week in the retail business. I also graduated with a GPA of 3.96 out of 4.0. I do not wear the fact on my shoulders but that is with honors. One does what one has to do.
_____________________________
STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/20/2008 12:00:01 AM
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relady
Posts: 1218
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
I started college in 1976 the same year my youngest daughter was born. I attended college carrying a full course load and worked 40 to 48 hours a week in the retail business. I also graduated with a GPA of 3.96 out of 4.0. I do not wear the fact on my shoulders but that is with honors. One does what one has to do I applaud you, but I am of the same generation as you and with all due respect to your accomplishment....a full course load in 1976 was quite a bit lighter than it is now. How did you pay for your tuition for a full course load. You couldn't possibly have done it on retail pay -- or maybe you could have back then - I know you couldn't now.
As far as cost goes....my son has a great FT job with benes and he could not possibly take a full load and pay for it all himself incurring no debt. I'd be interested in hearing how you accomplished that.
< Message edited by relady -- 4/20/2008 12:06:23 AM >
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/20/2008 1:15:40 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7430
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: rnershigh
I'm pretty saddened to see the sniping remarks directed at Zedd. I have read all his posts and no where has he been the least rude, but honest with his answers.
Actually, from what I've read of his posts, he and his mom are a lot a like. They both apparently think they are right and the other one is wrong and they aren't going to budge on the issue.
I agree... Now who should "do the right thing" first and above all? Who is held far more accountable in this situation.
A. The Christian parent
B. The unbelieving son
Zedd- he's the one who sought out the advice.
_____________________________
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/20/2008 3:02:33 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: rnershigh
I'm pretty saddened to see the sniping remarks directed at Zedd. I have read all his posts and no where has he been the least rude, but honest with his answers.
Actually, from what I've read of his posts, he and his mom are a lot a like. They both apparently think they are right and the other one is wrong and they aren't going to budge on the issue.
I agree... Now who should "do the right thing" first and above all? Who is held far more accountable in this situation.
A. The Christian parent
B. The unbelieving son
Zedd- he's the one who sought out the advice.
I guess that would be the case if this were a secular forum... Actually the bible says that the Christian is more accountable... I know this doesn't matter all that much in this thread for some reason, but it's undeniably the truth...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/20/2008 3:18:04 AM
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map4
Posts: 80
Status: offline
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I am not defending this mother for changing her mind, because I don't know the whole story.
But, I will say, I have changed my mind on things concerning my children.
Sometimes I have made rash decisions then I get "a check" on the inside. I believe the Holy Spirit is showing me I was wrong. When you know you have made the wrong decision, do you go ahead because you said "Yes" or "No", or do you admit you were wrong and do the right thing?
What I said may not apply to this particular situation, but to say we can never change our minds, I think, is wrong. Isn't it just as much our Christian "duty" to admit we were wrong in making a decision and to correct it?
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