RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adult son for refusing to goto church?
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Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adult son for refusing to goto church?
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Total Votes : 79
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(last vote on : 5/5/2008 12:34:43 PM)
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/18/2008 12:27:40 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10095
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
Sure she has the right. And I've tried to remain silent and not allow myself to be instigated, but that doesn't seem to work. (I'm still called on being disrespectful.)
So I speak. She knows my response isn't going to be one she wants to hear, but much like the broad situation we're discussing, I'm moved into a position via her rules & expectations that no matter what I do it is negative in some way.
eg
A. allow myself to be instigated into argument -> disrespect
B. not allow myself to be instigated into argument through silence -> disrespect
quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
And I have no problem swallowing that.
While sitting in a prison cell? I urge you to take a step back and re-evaluate your position.
I do believe I know a little bit more about this than you do. I have been involved in Law Enforcement for 28 years. During that time I have had the opportunity to watch several juries during trials. I will take my chances with the jury.
Just to give you an example, my youngest daughter and I had a few words one day over the way she talked to her mother. I told her exactly what I would do to her if I ever heard her do that again. She preceded to tell me that she would report me for child abuse. I promptly tossed her the phone and told her to make the call. Then I told her between the time she hung up and the authorities got there she would definitely need them. The call was not made and she started speaking to her mother a little differently.
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/18/2008 12:31:53 PM
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Zedd
Posts: 33
Joined: 4/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
Sure she has the right. And I've tried to remain silent and not allow myself to be instigated, but that doesn't seem to work. (I'm still called on being disrespectful.)
So I speak. She knows my response isn't going to be one she wants to hear, but much like the broad situation we're discussing, I'm moved into a position via her rules & expectations that no matter what I do it is negative in some way.
eg
A. allow myself to be instigated into argument -> disrespect
B. not allow myself to be instigated into argument through silence -> disrespect
quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
And I have no problem swallowing that.
While sitting in a prison cell? I urge you to take a step back and re-evaluate your position.
I do believe I know a little bit more about this than you do. I have been involved in Law Enforcement for 28 years. During that time I have had the opportunity to watch several juries during trials. I will take my chances with the jury.
Just to give you an example, my youngest daughter and I had a few words one day over the way she talked to her mother. I told her exactly what I would do to her if I ever heard her do that again. She preceded to tell me that she would report me for child abuse. I promptly tossed her the phone and told her to make the call. Then I told her between the time she hung up and the authorities got there she would definitely need them. The call was not made and she started speaking to her mother a little differently.
I don't care about that.
You aren't striking anyone (especially your daughter) in the teeth enough for them to require a dentist visit and getting away with it.
I'll accept this as re-evaluation.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 12:32:26 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6929
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
You are religious. You believe in the notion of religion, the notion of God (regardless of the doctrine.)
I do not.
That's the difference.
I'm supposed to respect my mother's beliefs/goto church every Sunday despite the fact that she won't respect mine enough to at least give me the CHOICE of going?
As someone said earlier in this thread: Even in a parent/child relationship, respect is a two-way street.
Actually, I do not believe in religion. I believe in Jesus Christ and a relationship with him.
It's her house. You are there because she loves you and allows you to be there. She has given you the choice of staying and going to church with her or moving out. How many choices do you think you need?
Suppose she likes the living room decorated the way it is and you think that it should be decorated differently, should she give you a choice to recorate it?
You've been giving a choice- what it sounds to me like is that you'd like more options in that choice.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 12:35:58 PM
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Zedd
Posts: 33
Joined: 4/14/2008
Status: offline
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I don't have a problem with the choice. I have a problem with the immorality which makes that choice necessary (the rule they are establishing,) and the fact that she gave me her word and is now going back on her word simply because she regrets it.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 12:38:21 PM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2455
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
I don't have a problem with the choice. I have a problem with the immorality which makes that choice necessary (the rule they are establishing,) and the fact that she gave me her word and is now going back on her word simply because she regrets it.
I do understand that.
Can you find it in you to go just to appease her for one Sunday?
_____________________________
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or it's gone
and gone for a long, long time."
Ronald Reagan
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 12:40:59 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6929
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
I don't have a problem with the choice. I have a problem with the immorality which makes that choice necessary (the rule they are establishing,) and the fact that she gave me her word and is now going back on her word simply because she regrets it.
She may be feeling a conviction and you're calling it immorality.
If she were an alcoholic and said that you could consume alcohol and then she decided to clean up her act, would you be upset if she no longer allowed alcoholic beverages in her home?
edited to fix my typo.
< Message edited by DenimDiva -- 4/18/2008 12:51:05 PM >
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 12:47:01 PM
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Zedd
Posts: 33
Joined: 4/14/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
I don't have a problem with the choice. I have a problem with the immorality which makes that choice necessary (the rule they are establishing,) and the fact that she gave me her word and is now going back on her word simply because she regrets it.
She may be feeling a conviction and your calling it immorality.
If she were an alcoholic and said that you could consume alcohol and then she decided to clean up her act, would you be upset if she no longer allowed alcoholic beverages in her home?
Convictions can be immoral.
Not in the slightest. But if she told me I had to goto AA meetings with her or she would kick me out, then I would have a problem.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
I do understand that.
Can you find it in you to go just to appease her for one Sunday?
I've gone, just to give it a chance. I think three or four Sundays in the past 7 months. It definitely is not for me.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/18/2008 12:48:38 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10095
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
Sure she has the right. And I've tried to remain silent and not allow myself to be instigated, but that doesn't seem to work. (I'm still called on being disrespectful.)
So I speak. She knows my response isn't going to be one she wants to hear, but much like the broad situation we're discussing, I'm moved into a position via her rules & expectations that no matter what I do it is negative in some way.
eg
A. allow myself to be instigated into argument -> disrespect
B. not allow myself to be instigated into argument through silence -> disrespect
quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
And I have no problem swallowing that.
While sitting in a prison cell? I urge you to take a step back and re-evaluate your position.
I do believe I know a little bit more about this than you do. I have been involved in Law Enforcement for 28 years. During that time I have had the opportunity to watch several juries during trials. I will take my chances with the jury.
Just to give you an example, my youngest daughter and I had a few words one day over the way she talked to her mother. I told her exactly what I would do to her if I ever heard her do that again. She preceded to tell me that she would report me for child abuse. I promptly tossed her the phone and told her to make the call. Then I told her between the time she hung up and the authorities got there she would definitely need them. The call was not made and she started speaking to her mother a little differently.
I don't care about that.
This line speaks volumes.
quote:
You aren't striking anyone (especially your daughter) in the teeth enough for them to require a dentist visit and getting away with it.
You don't know me and have no idea what I am capable of doing. I did not say I had I said I would and yes I would get away with it.
quote:
I'll accept this as re-evaluation.
For your information I have not re-evaluated anything. I stand by my statements as previously posted. And don't you ever use that condescending tone with me. I am not your mother.
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 12:49:33 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6929
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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Three Sundays in seven months? That doesn't sound like giving it much of a chance. I think you answered this already but I missed it..... Will she let you attend a different church of her beliefs?
BTW- just out of curiousity, what type of church does she attend? (you can decline to answer that if you want, I'm just curious.)
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/18/2008 12:52:30 PM
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Zedd
Posts: 33
Joined: 4/14/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
Sure she has the right. And I've tried to remain silent and not allow myself to be instigated, but that doesn't seem to work. (I'm still called on being disrespectful.)
So I speak. She knows my response isn't going to be one she wants to hear, but much like the broad situation we're discussing, I'm moved into a position via her rules & expectations that no matter what I do it is negative in some way.
eg
A. allow myself to be instigated into argument -> disrespect
B. not allow myself to be instigated into argument through silence -> disrespect
quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
And I have no problem swallowing that.
While sitting in a prison cell? I urge you to take a step back and re-evaluate your position.
I do believe I know a little bit more about this than you do. I have been involved in Law Enforcement for 28 years. During that time I have had the opportunity to watch several juries during trials. I will take my chances with the jury.
Just to give you an example, my youngest daughter and I had a few words one day over the way she talked to her mother. I told her exactly what I would do to her if I ever heard her do that again. She preceded to tell me that she would report me for child abuse. I promptly tossed her the phone and told her to make the call. Then I told her between the time she hung up and the authorities got there she would definitely need them. The call was not made and she started speaking to her mother a little differently.
I don't care about that.
This line speaks volumes.
quote:
You aren't striking anyone (especially your daughter) in the teeth enough for them to require a dentist visit and getting away with it.
You don't know me and have no idea what I am capable of doing. I did not say I had I said I would and yes I would get away with it.
quote:
I'll accept this as re-evaluation.
For your information I have not re-evaluated anything. I stand by my statements as previously posted. And don't you ever use that condescending tone with me. I am not your mother.
lol
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 12:54:56 PM
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Zedd
Posts: 33
Joined: 4/14/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Three Sundays in seven months? That doesn't sound like giving it much of a chance. I think you answered this already but I missed it..... Will she let you attend a different church of her beliefs?
BTW- just out of curiousity, what type of church does she attend? (you can decline to answer that if you want, I'm just curious.)
I went to that same church for periods of time throughout my childhood. I've given religion, God, the whole enchilada a fair chance.
I haven't discussed that with her.
Evangelical Friends church.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
Not in the slightest. But if she told me I had to goto AA meetings with her or she would kick me out, then I would have a problem.
And what we can see here is the differentiation between the moral and immoral.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 1:20:44 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6929
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Three Sundays in seven months? That doesn't sound like giving it much of a chance. I think you answered this already but I missed it..... Will she let you attend a different church of her beliefs?
BTW- just out of curiousity, what type of church does she attend? (you can decline to answer that if you want, I'm just curious.)
I went to that same church for periods of time throughout my childhood. I've given religion, God, the whole enchilada a fair chance.
I'm glad you gave God a chance. Did you give Him a chance to give you a chance? IOW, did you attempt to have a personal relationship with Him by praying, reading His Word, serving Him?
quote:
I haven't discussed that with her.
Might be worth a shot.
quote:
Evangelical Friends church.
I've never heard of them.
quote:
Not in the slightest. But if she told me I had to goto AA meetings with her or she would kick me out, then I would have a problem.
And what we can see here is the differentiation between the moral and immoral.
Would it be immoral if she wanted you to go along for moral support?
However, in all honesty, she probably wouldn't want you to go along with her to those meetings.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 1:43:23 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 11669
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
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quote:
quote:
Evangelical Friends church.
I've never heard of them.
I think they are Quakers.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 1:46:15 PM
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Zedd
Posts: 33
Joined: 4/14/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
quote:
quote:
Evangelical Friends church.
I've never heard of them.
I think they are Quakers.
Yep!
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/18/2008 2:29:06 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
I don't think I would say she lied unless as soon as she moved in she said "oh, now I expect you to go to church" Maybe in the last several months she has been convicted that those in her household should go to church.
That conviction doesn't overide the agreement she made...
Conviction from the Holy Spirit overrides everything.
It cannot override itself... The mother is breaking God's law by going back on her word. The Holy Spirit would not convict her to break God's law... Why is it so hard to grasp that the mother is breaking God's law? And why is she? Because she entered into a agreement she shouldn't have in the first place... Classic case of one problem leading to another...
It's really ironic everyone wants the child who doesn't care to follow God's law to do so, yet it's ok for the mother to break it in order to somehow force the son into church.
She needs to set the example and let things work themselves out... Breaking God's law out of regret and or second guessing herself isn't the answer...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 2:32:32 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5586
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I think they are Quakers.
Yep!
So you move into a Quaker home and expect not to be required to go to Church.
You said you were in college; how did you pass the entrance exam.
Move out, support yourself, and do what ever you want.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/18/2008 2:33:30 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
I will say now that when I tell someone something I try to keep my word. However there are circumstances that prevent that. I have to think your mother felt justified in changing the rules or she would not have. She is still giving you a choice. Life is full of choices. Sometimes you get to choose between something bad and something good. Then again sometimes the choice boils down to picking the least undesirable option. The later may be where you are now. But I would say the ball is in your court.
Regardless of what she felt she is wrong to go back on her word... There is and you have no offered anything of substance that would give her a right to change her mind and be justified in doing so...
Yes she can do as she pleases and most people will believe she has every right to do so, but that doesn't change the fact it's WRONG to do so...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/18/2008 2:35:46 PM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2455
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
Status: offline
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This was taken from HERE.
quote:
Friends refuse to make the Bible the final test of right conduct and true doctrine. Divine revelation is not confined to the past. The same Holy Spirit which has inspired the scriptures in the past can inspire living believers centuries later. Indeed, for the right understanding of the past, the present insight from the same Spirit is essential. Friends believe that, by the Inner Light, God provides everyone with access to spiritual truth for today.
It explains (to me anyway) how she can go back on her word.
This isn't your typical "Christian" mom he is dealing with, this is a Quaker (Friend) mom. They have different philosophies and beliefs from the traditional "Christianity".
_____________________________
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or it's gone
and gone for a long, long time."
Ronald Reagan
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/18/2008 2:40:54 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Zedd, my man, in the adult world when an agreement is broken, you can choose to take your business elsewhere or get a lawyer. The notion that everyone is supposed to be fair and honest is a remnant of childhood. In the army they give three options for addressing a problem: Fix it, Get rid of it, or Deal with it. Everyone is telling you that YOU have choices and YOU aren't getting it.
Why should he get it? A bunch of Christians are telling him his parents can break the law of the Godhis parents claim to follow and it's ok because its their house...  I thinks it ironic that the person who doesn't care to go to church sees that it's wrong...
John
John: You don't get it, either. Humans are flawed and will sometimes make bad decisions and sometimes will be outright evil. I'm not justifying the parental behavior, I'm simply addressing the pragmatic aspect of Zedd's situation. We only control our own behavior, not other people. His parents are not cuffing him, putting him in a vehicle and MAKING him go to church. They are presenting him with a choice. As I said in a previous post, one can certainly question the wisdom of the parents, but they are the authority in the home.
I get it 100%... Our flaws do not grant us relief from doing what is right or wrong, nor does it change what is right from wrong...
My point is that she is wrong to go back on her word... How they work it out is between them, but the IDEA that a CHRISTAIN can simply go back on their word without consequences is a fallacy...
Yes... I understand they presenting him with a choice... And there is a huge amount of irony regarding that choice...
The mother is breaking God's law by going back on her word in an attempt to get him to go to church...
Btw... The real authority should be the word/wisdom of God, if not all this really doesn't matter...
Personally I believe Zedd should leave the home out of respect for his mother, but that doesn't change the fact that mother is out of line...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/18/2008 2:49:47 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
While sitting in a prison cell? I urge you to take a step back and re-evaluate your position.
I do believe I know a little bit more about this than you do. I have been involved in Law Enforcement for 28 years. During that time I have had the opportunity to watch several juries during trials. I will take my chances with the jury.
Regardless of what the jury finds taking the law so to speak into your own hands is wrong on many levels...
Open question... Why is biblical reason (or reasoning) seemly suspended in the thread?
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 2:51:24 PM
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Zedd
Posts: 33
Joined: 4/14/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I think they are Quakers.
Yep!
So you move into a Quaker home and expect not to be required to go to Church.
You said you were in college; how did you pass the entrance exam.
Move out, support yourself, and do what ever you want.
Thanks
RC
Occupation: Pastor
INCREDIBLE!
Remove yourself from this thread.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 2:55:05 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5586
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
Remove yourself from this thread.
Did you ever decide to share with us your beliefs that are so afraid of the Quakers?
I do not think I have ever seen anyone or anything afraid of Quakers?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/18/2008 2:55:36 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Actually, I do not believe in religion. I believe in Jesus Christ and a relationship with him.
Jesus Christ is pretty big on His people keeping their word...
quote:
It's her house.
Yes it is, and she can do whatever she wants.... She can not pay the bills and still demand the lights stay on according to some people on this thread... Of course that doesn't make it right...
quote:
You are there because she loves you and allows you to be there. She has given you the choice of staying and going to church with her or moving out. How many choices do you think you need?
His mom had a chance to make going to church a requirement and she let go...
quote:
Suppose she likes the living room decorated the way it is and you think that it should be decorated differently, should she give you a choice to recorate it?
How does this compare to her saying one thing and later saying another???
quote:
You've been giving a choice- what it sounds to me like is that you'd like more options in that choice.
I believe he'd like his mom to keep her word on what they BOTH agreed upon prior to her changing her mind...
John
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