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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 12:32:11 PM
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armydude
Posts: 14773
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
mrsdash, I'm certainly not frustrated with you. Far from it. I appreciate your reasonable tone and willingness to discuss. Basically, I like your style, ma'am.  Agreed. 100%quote:
I, personally, don't care how other people pray. That's between them and the Holy Spirit. Normally, I wouldn't even weigh in on a question like this.
However, when the way *I* pray is called "limp-wristed" and whatever other negative adjectives were used, I did want to speak up. And those are the comments that I have really been responding to. To have it implied that I put on false-piety to pray and would tell others that they must do so as well, is inaccurate to say the least. If I have quoted you, it was merely, as you said, a jumping off point to give some point of reference to what I was saying. Again, agreed 100%. Anyone that has heard me pray knows they're not limp-wristed prayers. I suppose I got a little defensive when that phrase was used simply to defend what had already been proven not to be a good idea in praying (at least IMO).quote:
None of us pray perfectly, unless we're letting the Holy Spirit have total sway and do it for us. We all talk to our Father the way in which it seems right to us. For myself, that calls for remembering Who God Is in my temper and my speech. To be told that I am wrong and, basically, lying to God, gets my back up and requires that I address the issue.
And I don't wanna get your back up. 
_____________________________
A good question, eh?
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 12:58:47 PM
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txhoneydarlin
Posts: 616
Joined: 4/11/2008
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dejavuallovragain
Sometimes I wonder if people had actual trouble and hard times hit them if some of their preconceived ideas would change.
Speaking from my own personal experience, in a matter of 4 days, I was told my 4-year-old daughter would have to have heart surgery to avoid certain death. That same day that I received this information (in fact, about 30 minutes later), my Dad's best friend died after a long and hard-fought battle with cancer. Three days later, I was told that my uncle had inoperable/terminal brain cancer.
While I didn't understand why these things were happening, I didn't rail at God or rant away - although I guess I could have. Instead, I chose to be proactive. I got down on my knees and prayed about things that were happening, and I asked God not for understanding, but for strength. (Isaiah 41:10 states, "Don’t be afraid, for I am with you. Don’t be discouraged, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I will hold you up with my victorious right hand.")
As Romans 11:33 tells us, "Oh, how great are God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his ways!", it is not for me to question God about the things that happen. Instead, I'm to believe Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. "
As Dr. Dobson states in his book When God Doesn't Make Sense (good reading, especially if you are going through hard times), "Despite what some Christians will tell you, being a follower of Jesus Christ is no foolproof insurance policy against these storms of life... Trials and suffering are part of the human condition."
I just put my faith in the Lord - and keep on keeping on. Instead of letting these trials get me down, I hold fast to my faith - and delve into the scriptures for reassurance and strength - and encouragement.
Don't get me wrong, I have approached God when I am angry about things - but I have always been sure to let Him know that I'm grateful for everything He's provided for me and mine, including His steadfast love. I just make sure to praise Him when I'm presenting to Him all the trials and struggles in my life. As Phillippians 4:4 - 7 tells us, "Always be full of joy in the Lord. I say it again—rejoice! Let everyone see that you are considerate in all you do. Remember, the Lord is coming soon. Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus."
_____________________________
- Melissa
Unforgiveness is like taking poison and hoping your enemy will die. - Joyce Meyer
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 1:15:01 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 8023
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dejavuallovragain
Sometimes I wonder if people had actual trouble and hard times hit them if some of their preconceived ideas would change.
Whoa, I hadn't seen this. That's a VERY presumptuous statement. You have no idea what actual trouble ANY of us have faced. To imply that we have "preconceived" (as opposed to thoughtfully studied or learned from experience) ideas because we all live idyllic lives is arrogant and condescending.
I, for one, feel no need whatsoever to fill you in on my particular actual troubles. For one thing, your attitude is such that you don't deserve to know anything more about me than what you see in this post.
Okay, my back is officially up now. 
edited to remove offensive comment
< Message edited by CoeurdeLeon -- 4/23/2008 6:40:41 PM >
_____________________________
I want everyone here to know that I agree with the Lioness on every issue. Even when I disagree with her!
The Lioness Rules and Rocks! ~ Bluestone
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 1:37:50 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1107
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
for the most part it's not about being angry with God at all. (however...the psalmist did question God at times. always acknowledged God's sovereignty though.)
it's more about being angry infront of God.
we all agree that God should be reverenced in our hearts.
we don't agree on what all reverent behavior looks or sounds like.
The psalmist did question God. You are correct. He also (as you stated) acknowledged God's sovereignty. Tell me, does this reflect that example in your opinion?
quote:
"God, I know Your Word says to be thankful in all trials and afflictions, well I'm not thankful for this at all!! THIS SUCKS!!! Why does it have to be this way!?" I don't think so.
psalm 89:38-46 david protests and ask God why he's taking so long to act, doesn't he know how short his life is etc.
the poster's prayer goes no where near that far. to me it just sounds like he knows what he needs to line himself up with in God's word, and he's not there yet. he wants to talk with God about it.
he's not even saying "why are you doing this God?"
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 1:40:32 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1107
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of course this thread has includes plenty of civil and pleasant conversation but as it seems to be getting bumpier i may (reverently of course) bow out.
we'll see if i can stick to that. just not up for bumpy.
ps CoeurdeLeon, thanks for your encouraging comment.
< Message edited by mrsdash -- 4/23/2008 1:46:43 PM >
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 1:45:13 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 8023
Joined: 9/4/2005
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You're most welcome, mrsdash. I have long appreciated your posts and apologize for only now making you aware of that.
Blessings 
_____________________________
I want everyone here to know that I agree with the Lioness on every issue. Even when I disagree with her!
The Lioness Rules and Rocks! ~ Bluestone
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 1:50:03 PM
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landabee
Posts: 2869
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Central Florida
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quote:
Sometimes I wonder if people had actual trouble and hard times hit them if some of their preconceived ideas would change.
*landabee thinks about her perfect life, free of stresses, strains, hard times and troubles....*
That's presumptuous.
I could go on and on about things that happened that fit into that scenario........ but I choose to praise Him that loved me through the sadness, pain, frustration and desperation.
Again, I just cannot personally see addressing God with a contentious spirit towards him. Just me personally.
What others do......... well, it's between them and God.
However, as others on this thread have said: Our differences in approaching the Throne of Grace, Mercy and Love does not dilute the potency of our prayers.
If our God is at all like me as a parent, the child that has the right attitude is much easier to work with. Even in the throes of pain and indecision, I pray that He creates in me a clean heart.
_____________________________
"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon
Vist My Blog:
Omnivore's One Hundred
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 3:23:45 PM
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Apaise
Posts: 127
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quote:
Original: Tall-One
Bottom line ... we are to approach the throne of God as a little child. How many children do you know of who exhibit self-control and not scream, rant, rave, cry when they are upset?
A better question would be how many (good) parents let their children get away with ranting at them while they were upset? We are to approach God with the faith of a child, not the maturity level. (I am speaking mostly of Christians who have been Christians for a while in that statement. I know we all start off as babes in Christ, but somewhere along the way there is supposed to be some growth.)
quote:
Original: dejavuallovragain
Ok I will throw a churchy phrase at you guys. How about righteous indignation. Can a person be righteously indignant over their circumstances? Also the Bible says sin not in your anger. It does not say not to be angry but don't sin while you are angry.
Righteous anger by its very definition would not be a sin, but I have to wonder if righteous anger would really manifest itself as a temper tantrum towards God.
quote:
Original: dejavuallovragain
Sometimes I wonder if people had actual trouble and hard times hit them if some of their preconceived ideas would change.
 You have no idea what kind of private battles and trials I (or anyone else) may have been through. But even if my life had been picture perfect, any principle found in the Word of God is not subject to change with me.
One thing that keeps running through my head is that one day I will stand before God, in person, not in spirit as I approach Him now. When that day comes I can't imagine being less than awed and humbled by His presence. But being with God face-to-face will not change Him or His nature. Who and what He will be then is Who and what He is now. So why would I want to approach Him in prayer in a manner less reverent than how I would approach Him face to face?
_____________________________
"God has paid us the intolerable compliment of loving us, in the deepest, most tragic, most inexorable sense."
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 4:41:59 PM
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txhoneydarlin
Posts: 616
Joined: 4/11/2008
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Apaise
So why would I want to approach Him in prayer in a manner less reverent than how I would approach Him face to face?
You know, seeing this made me think... How many of us say one thing or act one way when a person is not present but do a total about face when they are? (not necessarily in a negative aspect or connotation; please don't take it that way - I'm sure you've all been there/done that. ie: actions around friends versus actions around parents, especially as teens) Is this how we are conducting ourselves in front of our Lord when we approach Him in prayer? This makes me pause to think and to examine myself when I am in prayer... Wow! Thanks, Apaise, for this insightful statement.
_____________________________
- Melissa
Unforgiveness is like taking poison and hoping your enemy will die. - Joyce Meyer
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 5:59:44 PM
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armydude
Posts: 14773
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dejavuallovragain
Sometimes I wonder if people had actual trouble and hard times hit them if some of their preconceived ideas would change.
I'm going to apologize up front if this seems a bit defensive or harsh. That is not my intention. (And I know the wonderful mods we have will bring it to my attention if I overstep my bounds, so...)
You want to talk about "if people had actual trouble" and how that would change "preconceived ideas"? Okay, let's talk.
When I was discharged from the military for a medical condition, I hoped to be back at work within the month. That didn't happen. I hoped to be back at work within six months. Again, no. I prayed to be back at work within a year. Guess what. No.
Did I get mad that all of these prayers were seemingly unanswered? Yes. I vented to my lovely wife. I vented to my parents. I vented to my pastor. I did not vent to God. I thought of re-enlisting in the national guard. That door was closed. I ALMOST got a job at a very good company in Greensboro. That door was closed. It seemed as though no matter what I could do, I could not get things done. All this time, I was honest, expressing disappointment that I could not find employment, but I did not lose control.
In the fall of 2006, my oldest son was diagnosed with autism. Let me tell you, that was a blow that almost hurt physically. I turned to my friends here. I vented to my wife. I vented to my pastor. I did not vent to God. I believed then (as I do now) that He loves me, and His heart was breaking that I took this so personally, even though some dear friends counseled me that it was not my fault or anyone's fault.
I could go on and on, but you get the idea. I'm not trying to put myself on a pedastal. I'm merely trying to point out that we've ALL had trials. We've all been with our back against a wall, wondering how we're going to "get out of this one". Those that advocate reverence through words have not been more protected. We've dealt with the same issues.
_____________________________
A good question, eh?
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[Deleted] - 4/23/2008 6:10:39 PM
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Deleted User
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[Deleted by Admins]
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 6:11:58 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 8023
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
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_____________________________
I want everyone here to know that I agree with the Lioness on every issue. Even when I disagree with her!
The Lioness Rules and Rocks! ~ Bluestone
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 6:17:46 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 8023
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tall_One
quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: dejavuallovragain
Sometimes I wonder if people had actual trouble and hard times hit them if some of their preconceived ideas would change.
Whoa, I hadn't seen this. That's a VERY presumptuous statement. You have no idea what actual trouble ANY of us have faced. To imply that we have "preconceived" (as opposed to thoughtfully studied or learned from experience) ideas because we all live idyllic lives is arrogant and condescending.
I, for one, feel no need whatsoever to fill you in on my particular actual troubles. For one thing, your attitude is such that you don't deserve to know anything more about me than what you see in this post. I do suggest that you learn some manners.
Okay, my back is officially up now.
Hm... I probably take more offense at your use of "attitude" than others here. Perhaps a time out is in order as your choice of wording is too hot for this forum. We are sharing our personal thoughts, not attacking as your words have done.
When someone shares their "personal thoughts" about whether those that disagree with them (that would be me) have preconceived ideas due to not ever having any real trouble or hard times in life and would know better had I had those troubles then, oh yeah, I've got a whole bunch of words to share.
_____________________________
I want everyone here to know that I agree with the Lioness on every issue. Even when I disagree with her!
The Lioness Rules and Rocks! ~ Bluestone
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 6:19:18 PM
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armydude
Posts: 14773
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tall_One
Perhaps a time out is in order as your choice of wording is too hot for this forum. That would be for the moderators to decide. If someone offends you, there is a "block" feature at the lower left of each post. You will see that the person posted, but you won't see what was said.
If you're really offended, that option is available.
_____________________________
A good question, eh?
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[Deleted] - 4/23/2008 6:29:38 PM
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 6:32:37 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16552
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tall_One
quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: dejavuallovragain
Sometimes I wonder if people had actual trouble and hard times hit them if some of their preconceived ideas would change.
Whoa, I hadn't seen this. That's a VERY presumptuous statement. You have no idea what actual trouble ANY of us have faced. To imply that we have "preconceived" (as opposed to thoughtfully studied or learned from experience) ideas because we all live idyllic lives is arrogant and condescending.
I, for one, feel no need whatsoever to fill you in on my particular actual troubles. For one thing, your attitude is such that you don't deserve to know anything more about me than what you see in this post. I do suggest that you learn some manners.
Okay, my back is officially up now.
Hm... I probably take more offense at your use of "attitude" than others here. Perhaps a time out is in order as your choice of wording is too hot for this forum. We are sharing our personal thoughts, not attacking as your words have done.
When someone shares their "personal thoughts" about whether those that disagree with them (that would be me) have preconceived ideas due to not ever having any real trouble or hard times in life and would know better had I had those troubles then, oh yeah, I've got a whole bunch of words to share.
The line about him needing to learn manners could be unwelcome counsel, since he didn't ask you if he should learn them. You were fine till that point. If his momma couldn't teach him you telling him won't help. I don't think it warrants a time out though.
Lets all be careful about members who come in seemingly to provoke, ok? The block feature is a pretty handy feature. 
Sincerely
Kath
Please do not comment on this action in the community or send me a PM about it. If you have questions, comments or concerns please email Fritz at community@salemwebnetwork.com allowing time for a reply. Thanks!
(edited to add the do not reply which was edited in after Lioness responded)
< Message edited by Kath -- 4/23/2008 6:39:55 PM >
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[Deleted] - 4/23/2008 6:33:02 PM
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 6:34:12 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 8023
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
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Yes, ma'am.
My sincere apologies for that comment, dejavuallovragain.
I'll go edit my post and take that out, okay, Kath?
edit ~ I guess that won't help since it's been quoted. 
_____________________________
I want everyone here to know that I agree with the Lioness on every issue. Even when I disagree with her!
The Lioness Rules and Rocks! ~ Bluestone
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 6:38:42 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 8023
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tall_One
quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tall_One
quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: dejavuallovragain
Sometimes I wonder if people had actual trouble and hard times hit them if some of their preconceived ideas would change.
Whoa, I hadn't seen this. That's a VERY presumptuous statement. You have no idea what actual trouble ANY of us have faced. To imply that we have "preconceived" (as opposed to thoughtfully studied or learned from experience) ideas because we all live idyllic lives is arrogant and condescending.
I, for one, feel no need whatsoever to fill you in on my particular actual troubles. For one thing, your attitude is such that you don't deserve to know anything more about me than what you see in this post. I do suggest that you learn some manners.
Okay, my back is officially up now.
Hm... I probably take more offense at your use of "attitude" than others here. Perhaps a time out is in order as your choice of wording is too hot for this forum. We are sharing our personal thoughts, not attacking as your words have done.
When someone shares their "personal thoughts" about whether those that disagree with them (that would be me) have preconceived ideas due to not ever having any real trouble or hard times in life and would know better had I had those troubles then, oh yeah, I've got a whole bunch of words to share.
And, you say that you must always be reverent in your prayers to God in Heaven? Yet you can't continue to show humility, meekness and respect to your fellow man/woman/child?
Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
Aren't you the one who says we should let fly with our emotions? Merely trying out your suggestion, taking it for a test drive. 
< Message edited by CoeurdeLeon -- 4/23/2008 6:45:12 PM >
_____________________________
I want everyone here to know that I agree with the Lioness on every issue. Even when I disagree with her!
The Lioness Rules and Rocks! ~ Bluestone
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 6:41:49 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16552
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tall_One
And, you say that you must always be reverent in your prayers to God in Heaven? Yet you can't continue to show humility, meekness and respect to your fellow man/woman/child?
Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
We all sin and fall short of the glory of God.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/23/2008 9:50:36 PM
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THEREDCAPE
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/23/2008
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Respectful people pray with a respectful attitude.
Immature people pray after that fashion.
The arrogant approach the throne of grace full of themselves.
The humble seek God knowing His ability to smite us all if He so desires.
Our approach to the sacred seat of the Lord shows the condition of our hearts.
_____________________________
Scripture must be the standard, not experience.
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