RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce his ears?"
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/19/2008 9:54:18 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 275
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
quote:
What if you found out that your firstborn, at age 14, was smoking cigarettes? What if he was doing it away from home? How could you stop him?
we would pray about it, find out what was available in the area for groups, deal with the underlying issue of rebellion, get them in to counseling, etc...whatever we had to do....but in no way would we allow them to think that we would just sweep it under the rug and put up with it. I can't say exactly what the situation would bring about as far as punishments goes, but you can bet that we won't change our stance on it just because a child tries to push us.
quote:
My husband is a drug and alcohol counselor and many addicts come from very, very good Christian homes!
yes I know this....I grew up a PK (preacher's kid for those that don't know that term)....I went to the PK retreats and saw more sinful nature coming out at those then I saw anywhere else. I am not trying to say we won't have problems to face....but we are doing the best that we can NOW with our kids in formulating a belief in them NOW that they can fall back on later when they need to. My parents did the same with us, and the worst "rebellion" we got into was very minor (coming in late for curfew, etc). So I think there is something to be said for putting a solid foundation under our kids first and preparing them with the knowledge they will need so that when those temptations come they know how to deal with them. The Bible says that there is not a temptation that you will face that isn't common for all man to face, but that God has a way of escape....we are preparing our kids with the foundation to know those temptations and the knowledge to see that it can be avoided (or escaped from). My husband's at home situation was much different then mine, and it resulted in his brother looking for an escape and finding it in the wrong end of a rope...my husband opened the door on his 19th birthday to the coroner standing there to tell them that his brother had killed himself. The reason was because he couldn't get what he needed at home...others were pressuring him into things, and he got addicted to drugs. When he noticed he was addicted he went to his parents to get help, and the last thing my husband remember about his brother being alive was that conversation and his step mom hitting his brother over the head with her house shoe because she was mad at him....he left the house...and within two weeks was found dead. My husband was not raised with the value system that would have given them any basis for morality (he was not raised in a Christna home)...he was not raised by parents that showed them where restraint should be or where temptation would come or how to deal with it at those times. When they were faced with their own faults and were told by their son that he was addicted and needed help they then didn't have anything to stand on themselves and blamed him for everything.
quote:
It's my opinion that you can't blame all rebellious kids on bad parenting!
just wanted to point out that I NEVER said that!!!! However, see my section above about setting up for success or failure in the way we choose to parent our kids NOW at a young and formidable age...how we choose NOW to teach them how to handle temptations and how to come back to God in their heart when they have strayed.
quote:
Yes, my dh and I have "our" house. We pay all the bills. But, we've made an intentional decision that this will always be our kids "home". They will be welcome and loved here. If they choose to do stuff that we do not approve of, then we need to work that out. I'm talking about older kids here, teens and above.
again, the things that we have set as basics that won't change ever in our house are things that we personally feel convictions about or are things that affect our lives and may not affect your life. I am not saying everyone here needs to have these same rules, but they are what WE have in our house. Here is a breakdown on a few of them (our reasoning of these rules being in place for us).....
no dating....my husband was pushed into dating and told that it was everything. He had his first sexual encounter in his parents house with their "permission" and later found out that sex isn't all it's cracked up to be...it ties you in emotionally and spiritually. Unfortunately he didn't realize this until many women later, and finding Christ at the age of 28. So we will try our best to teach our kids in this area what his parents failed to teach him.
no drinking....again this one goes back to my hubby...he was given alcohol as a teen by his praents, and went through several years of partying with hard liquor and drugs because of what they allowed him to think about it all when he was younger. I personally didn't grow up with any alcohol around at all, so I am going back to his knowledge here on this one for our kids. (drugs falls into this too since his mom is the one that gave him drugs)
no smoking....I am highly allergic to it...one whiff just on the clothes of someone that smokes and my throat closes up and I can't talk. There is not going to be a time we will ever allow someone to smoke on our property...kid of ours or not...adult or not....even when our nephew lived here and smoked, he had to step out of the fence to do so...and he had to change and wash his hands when he came back inside.
no piercings (except girls and only in earlobes)....again, we live in the military life and this is a rule that is pushed by the bases we have been to. We will teach our kids that we may not want to follow the rules, but we will choose to whether we want to or not...including this one.
quote:
Maybe that's what you all mean when you say, "not in my house". When I hear that phrase, I automatically get very defensive. Maybe others do, too?
yes that is exactly what I mean. It is a hill we are willing to fight on...and it is something we are willing to see through to the end on if it comes up with our kids in the future. I/we really don't care about hair dye, or make-up, or long hair on boys, or many other things that may be issues for others...the things we have chosen to make issues in our house have reasons behind them...either from the way we were raised (good or bad), or from our own experiences in life, or simply for our own way of life now.
Ms Peculiar,
Well, thank-you again for such a long and considered response; I guess it's certainly a privilege in forums such as this to receive contributions characterized by such variety and by perceived linkages of the topic with, though maybe obscure and not apparent to some readers, are yet obviously real in the mind of the writer. We do also need friendly reminders to keep on topic, but anyway I don't want to personalize the reminder too much.
Take care and God bless.
< Message edited by faroukfarouk -- 4/19/2008 11:00:26 PM >
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/20/2008 11:14:50 AM
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relady
Posts: 910
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From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
If it's not illegal or an issue of sin then it really just comes down to control and I do not want to be a controlling mother, especially when our kids are in 10,11,12 grade and we have already done what we can to raise them. At that point you have to cut them loose and let them do what they may, I would prefer my kids to figure it out while they are still at home and we can guide them but of course the ideal would be that they just don't try crazy things at all Oh, I quite agree, but there are things that I gave my son (like a car at 16) that I would not have done had I had 3 kids. He always had all the "latest" computer game systems and games. Had I had more than just him, I would have to have been way more judicious, just from a financial perspective, about what material things I gave him. That's more where I was going with that, and I am sure there is some of that reasoning in some posters' restrictions. I tended to be a very liberal parent, but I'm not sure I would have been as liberal had I had more than one child. But I most certainly went out of my way to parent differently than my parents did.
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/20/2008 8:36:28 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 275
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LEGALNICKI:
quote:
ORIGINAL: legalnicki
My son is 11 & will be entering middle school in the fall (6th grade). We've talked about piercings,
So was it you who raised the idea to him?
quote:
but he doesn't seem very interested in it. If he did want his ears pierced, I'd probably procrastinate a little bit, but I really wouldn't mind (my husband has his left ear pierced, but hasn't worn an earring for many years).
Always hard to argue againt Daddy's earring, right...?
quote:
Like others here have said, it's not a sin issue and I would rather save my "battles", should we have any, for more important issues.
He *is* talking about using gel to make his hair spiky, though. I guess a kid his age at school actually has blonde highlights and wears it spiky. DD11 doesn't want the highlights, though - just the gel.
So were the gel and spiky hair his idea, or yours?
Take care.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/20/2008 11:50:01 PM
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legalnicki
Posts: 50
Joined: 12/18/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faroukfarouk
LEGALNICKI:
quote:
ORIGINAL: legalnicki
My son is 11 & will be entering middle school in the fall (6th grade). We've talked about piercings,
So was it you who raised the idea to him?
Nope. He's seen our wedding photo with my husband's earring, and he's also seen other boys in the neighborhood with earrings. The topic did come up last year when my daughter had her ear pierced. I don't encourage it/bring it up because it's really a non-issue with me.
quote:
but he doesn't seem very interested in it. If he did want his ears pierced, I'd probably procrastinate a little bit, but I really wouldn't mind (my husband has his left ear pierced, but hasn't worn an earring for many years).
Always hard to argue againt Daddy's earring, right...?
Well, my husband doesn't wear the earring anymore, so if we were to say "no", he really wouldn't be able to argue about his dad having one.
quote:
Like others here have said, it's not a sin issue and I would rather save my "battles", should we have any, for more important issues.
He *is* talking about using gel to make his hair spiky, though. I guess a kid his age at school actually has blonde highlights and wears it spiky. DD11 doesn't want the highlights, though - just the gel.
So were the gel and spiky hair his idea, or yours?
Take care.
Nope, it was his idea last week out of the clear blue. He saw someone at school last week, and wanted to do something similar. I will say, though, I *have* put gel in his hair in the past (when it was shorter) to give it a more gentle spike because his hair is very straight and it all grows forward, so gel isn't really a stranger to him!
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 3:34:31 AM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 275
Joined: 4/16/2008
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quote:
Nope. He's seen our wedding photo with my husband's earring, and he's also seen other boys in the neighborhood with earrings. The topic did come up last year when my daughter had her ear pierced. I don't encourage it/bring it up because it's really a non-issue with me
...
Well, my husband doesn't wear the earring anymore, so if we were to say "no", he really wouldn't be able to argue about his dad having one
...
Nope, it was his idea last week out of the clear blue. He saw someone at school last week, and wanted to do something similar. I will say, though, I *have* put gel in his hair in the past (when it was shorter) to give it a more gentle spike because his hair is very straight and it all grows forward, so gel isn't really a stranger to him!
LEGALNICKI,
Thnx for the response.
So I guess whether it's about hair gel or pierced ears, you don't mind the idea of him being just a bit fashionable, if that's what he wants (within reason, of course!).
Take care.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 11:23:11 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 3276
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ya know...I was thinking
yeh, ya'll are shocked aren't ya?
We are all part of the body of Christ, but with individual households that have been given the authority in Christ to raise our children - we should consider being more supportive of those individual convictions.
I applaud those households that have parents of conviction. And the conviction (regardless of what it might be) should be respected.
In reading through much of these posts, I don't really see anyone trying to force their convictions onto someone else. I don't necessarily read "I'm more holy than you because...." It's just a matter of stating what they are for observation purposes.
God gave parents a level of authority in the lives of their children...it's time we learn to use it to the glory of His name. (Not saying anyone isn't already doing this.)
In seeing the many facets of that authority described here, be it for/against tats/piercings, I think it's awesome when God's people walk/stumble/struggle through life just trying to be more like Jesus.
God bless all of you parents.
ok...'nuff sappiness for the day 
_____________________________
Religion is about me. Gospel is about Jesus -- Mark Driscoll
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 12:19:50 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 9286
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From: Cow country, Upstate NY
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Thank you, Connie. I appreciate that.
_____________________________
<----We love you, Mom!!!
But I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation.
I will sing to the Lord, for he has been good to me.
~Psalm 13:5-6~
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 12:30:18 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 3276
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and you, along with Peculiar Lady, memaw, landabee, relady, bluestone, kohls356, mrsdash, hotsaucygma, faroukfarouk and anyone else who posted are appreciated as well.
I know I forgot someone...please forgive me
_____________________________
Religion is about me. Gospel is about Jesus -- Mark Driscoll
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 1:42:24 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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quote:
please forgive me
You are entirely forgiven. 
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 1:45:59 PM
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peculiar_lady2
Posts: 11762
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From: Between Hither and Yon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
and you, along with Peculiar Lady, memaw, landabee, relady, bluestone, kohls356, mrsdash, hotsaucygma, faroukfarouk and anyone else who posted are appreciated as well.
I know I forgot someone...please forgive me
_____________________________
Proud Army Wife
Mom to Jake, Hannah, Emma, and Jack
Baby Boy due June 25, 2008
"God has a plan for your life...and so does everybody else." ~said by Doinkdom
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 3:25:29 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 275
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DOINKADOM
quote:
In seeing the many facets of that authority described here, be it for/against tats/piercings, I think it's awesome when God's people walk/stumble/struggle through life just trying to be more like Jesus.
Hi. I appreciate your statement, above.
Also I think that while what you say has a lot of value, there is sometimes a more nuanced side to the questions mentioned. For some ppl it's a straightfoward being 'for piercings', 'for tats', and for others it's a straightforward being 'against piercings', against tats', etc.
With other families I guess it's partly a case of being 'for' them or 'against' them, but also a case of 'even if I am in theory against them' (or for them, etc), if, eg, my teen son seems very committed to the idea of ear piercings, or my daughter going to the tattoo parlor for a faith related tattoo on her 18th b-day, how far do I go in stopping them?
Mediating the transition between enforcing my preferences as far as possible and as long as possible, and, on the other hand, after giving advice, gradually let them learn to take responsibility for their actions: therein lies the need for a great deal of Christian wisdom.
Does this make sense?
(For example: FACT: all the boys who played football in the street I lived on happened to wear earrings in both ears. FACT: Between the church I go to, and at the church my brother and family go to, there are boys who have regularly attended who also happen to have had earrings in both ears. I also don't think that this is at all unusual. If one identifies this as a matter of taste and custom, and takes account of the fact that many of a teen boy's friends in school AND church will have gotten their ears pierced, then, whatever one's personal preference might be, it may more and more become, rather, a question of how long should one keep on prohibiting them earrings before they turn 18?
Another example: FACT: Many teens, including girls (and can I say expecially girls?), make the trip to the parlor for some ink a sort of rite of passage to adulthood, on or around their 18th b-day. Some believing teens (and it can often be a struggle to be a believer as a teen) want, instead of the varied bf /gf stuff, or designs relating to superstition or sentimentality, will instead prefer to get a witness type tattoo: sth faith related. Bearing in mind that most parlors won't ink an-under 18 anyway, the question arises, how far does one go to enforce one's own preferences on young men and women entering adulthood, expecially if they would like to get it done for faith related reasons.)
Two cents'.
Take care, ppl.
< Message edited by faroukfarouk -- 4/21/2008 3:32:26 PM >
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 3:37:13 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 3276
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faroukfarouk
Mediating the transition between enforcing my preferences as far as possible and as long as possible, and, on the other hand, after giving advice, gradually let them learn to take responsibility for their actions: therein lies the need for a great deal of Christian wisdom.
I agree.
Wisdom/discernment is another area of teaching for our kids.
Experience does not always equate to wisdom. And I'm relying on my own experience for that one.
_____________________________
Religion is about me. Gospel is about Jesus -- Mark Driscoll
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 3:39:49 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 9286
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Haven't we been talking about minor children in most of this thread though? To me, that's what the question "would you let your son pierce his ears" is referring to...while they are under 18.
I think most of us would agree that once they are legally an adult, there's not much we can do about it no matter what we may think. Additionally, I don't think I've seen anyone say that their adult child would be out on their keister the following night if they came home with an earring or tattoo.
_____________________________
<----We love you, Mom!!!
But I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation.
I will sing to the Lord, for he has been good to me.
~Psalm 13:5-6~
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 3:53:37 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 275
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
Haven't we been talking about minor children in most of this thread though? To me, that's what the question "would you let your son pierce his ears" is referring to...while they are under 18.
I think most of us would agree that once they are legally an adult, there's not much we can do about it no matter what we may think. Additionally, I don't think I've seen anyone say that their adult child would be out on their keister the following night if they came home with an earring or tattoo.
Yes, you are right.
Also, I guess that the teen years, expecially 16 & 17, can be described as a sort of run-up period for 18.
And I don't condone either the idea of an under 18 coming home with piercings that the parent hasn't approved.
But when he has ASKED and wanted to talk about having one of, or both (now it's usually both, right?) of his ears done, that is different category from doing it behind one's back, I reckon.
[These days I am having to think more about my own ears, but how much sound they can hear: I'm getting them tested tomorrow...how the years creep up...lol]
Take care.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 5:08:10 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 2824
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faroukfarouk
(For example: FACT: all the boys who played football in the street I lived on happened to wear earrings in both ears. FACT: Between the church I go to, and at the church my brother and family go to, there are boys who have regularly attended who also happen to have had earrings in both ears. I also don't think that this is at all unusual. If one identifies this as a matter of taste and custom, and takes account of the fact that many of a teen boy's friends in school AND church will have gotten their ears pierced, then, whatever one's personal preference might be, it may more and more become, rather, a question of how long should one keep on prohibiting them earrings before they turn 18?
I think this might be a valid question for parents. Way back in the day, when I was in elementary school, I wanted to wear knee socks with my sneakers. My mother absolutely refused. She would make me change into ankle socks if I was wearing sneakers. Further, she always made me wear the ankle socks with the lace around the top because they were easy to distinguish from my brother's and because I was a girl. 
(I know this is kind of a weird story, but bear with me.)
I begged and pleaded, knowing full well that every girl child I knew wore knee socks with sneakers, but my mother would not give in...until a friend of hers brought her two daughters over and both of them were wearing knee socks. My mother made the comment that she never let me wear such and we argued about it all the time. The older daughter backed me up, saying everyone did wear them and the mom was like, "Who cares?" She told my mom that was not that big a thing to be arguing about all the time and pretty soon everyone would be wearing something different. My mom relented, and sure enough, within a couple of years the trend had reversed and no one would be caught dead in knee socks with sneakers. (Thankfully by that time I was too old to wear the lace as well.)
Now, I'm sure this knee sock fashion trend was not all that widespread--but in my tiny corner of the world, it was very important. In Farouk's world, most boys have their ears pierced. If it was widespread enough that your son felt uncomfortable without pierced ears, or was being made fun of, etc. would you give in?
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CW Underground
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RE: Roberta asked: "would you let your son pierce ... - 4/21/2008 5:26:36 PM
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hotsaucygma
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If it does not cause permanant scars (big, not small ear piercings etc.) I figure what the heck. Hair grows back, or out; ears can "close up" again; clothes/fashions will come and go (although I wouldn't allow all black all the time/Goth look etc.). I didn't think those, for the most part, were worth fighting over. If someone else does/did, that's up to them.
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Dear Lord, let my words today be as sweet and delicious as cheesecake... for tomorrow I may have to eat them!
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"would you let your son pierce his ears?" - 4/21/2008 5:44:28 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 2979
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: Concord, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
and you, along with Peculiar Lady, memaw, landabee, relady, bluestone, kohls356, mrsdash, hotsaucygma, faroukfarouk and anyone else who posted are appreciated as well.
I know I forgot someone...please forgive me
forgiven
_____________________________
Roberta
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RE: "would you let your son pierce his ears?" - 4/21/2008 6:04:17 PM
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CheshireMuse
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I have two sons, now 18 and 20.... both have pierced ears. They are both Christian young men (and were when they got the piercings), very devoted and active in their church.
The way I see it, teenagers rebel. I believe they rebel because they're trying to be individuals and haven't figured out the proper way to express that yet. So, some things that I didn't particularly agree with (as long as there wasn't anything really bad about it) I would allow them to do... example, getting their ears pierced.... It's a small thing... a fad.... one that they'll probably abandon down the road... and if they don't? Oh well... it's not the end of the world....
Neither of them do drugs, smoke, drink, and they get good grades in school.... I might cringe at the way they dress or wear their hair, but they're basically good kids - clean and respectful..... so, I figure I can turn a blind eye to some of the little "rebellions"....
It makes it easier for me to enforce other, more serious, rules.... because they don't see me as "controlling"....
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
and you, along with Peculiar Lady, memaw, landabee, relady, bluestone, kohls356, mrsdash, hotsaucygma, faroukfarouk and anyone else who posted are appreciated as well.
I know I forgot someone...please forgive me
forgiven
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: "would you let your son pierce his ears?" - 4/21/2008 6:15:41 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 275
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse
I have two sons, now 18 and 20.... both have pierced ears. They are both Christian young men (and were when they got the piercings), very devoted and active in their church.
The way I see it, teenagers rebel. I believe they rebel because they're trying to be individuals and haven't figured out the proper way to express that yet. So, some things that I didn't particularly agree with (as long as there wasn't anything really bad about it) I would allow them to do... example, getting their ears pierced.... It's a small thing... a fad.... one that they'll probably abandon down the road... and if they don't? Oh well... it's not the end of the world....
Neither of them do drugs, smoke, drink, and they get good grades in school.... I might cringe at the way they dress or wear their hair, but they're basically good kids - clean and respectful..... so, I figure I can turn a blind eye to some of the little "rebellions"....
It makes it easier for me to enforce other, more serious, rules.... because they don't see me as "controlling"....
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
and you, along with Peculiar Lady, memaw, landabee, relady, bluestone, kohls356, mrsdash, hotsaucygma, faroukfarouk and anyone else who posted are appreciated as well.
I know I forgot someone...please forgive me
forgiven
So are you accustomed to seeing your sons wearing their earrings now?
I guess you'll get used to them. At the church where I go and the one where my brother goes, there have been boys with earrings; it's not unusual.
Take care.
< Message edited by faroukfarouk -- 4/21/2008 6:22:10 PM >
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: "would you let your son pierce his ears?" - 4/21/2008 7:54:53 PM
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bryan24
Posts: 19
Joined: 9/13/2007
Status: offline
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tattoos-by 18 it's there choice, boys and girls
piercing for boys-by 13 it's there choice
piercing for girls-pretty much whenever, for their ears that is
This is going to sound bad, but before the age of 13 boys dont really have much manlyness to their faces. So getting an ear piercing makes them look rather feminin. But once their faces and voices and everything else changes, the whole earing thing doesnt look so feminin.
I tried explaining it best I could which is really hard to do. Sorry if it's a little hazy.
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RE: "would you let your son pierce his ears?" - 4/21/2008 8:52:16 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 2979
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: Concord, CA
Status: offline
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I understood ya Bryan.
_____________________________
Roberta
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RE: "would you let your son pierce his ears?" - 4/21/2008 8:53:44 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 275
Joined: 4/16/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
I understood ya Bryan.
Hi Roberta, so do you agree with Bryan / disagree?
Take care
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: "would you let your son pierce his ears?" - 4/21/2008 8:55:27 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 2979
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: Concord, CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faroukfarouk
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
I understood ya Bryan.
Hi Roberta, so do you agree with Bryan / disagree?
Take care
If that's what works in his house, then I'm all for it.
We each parent to the best of our abilities.
_____________________________
Roberta
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