Why is grace so greatly misunderstood?

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Ezra -> Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 5:58:50 PM)
Even though the Bible has provided us with a very clear picture of God's grace, it remains one of the most misunderstood characteristics of God. For example, some believe that God's grace does not demand or command repentance. There are many other misunderstandings that are worthy of careful examination and rejection. Feel free to bring them up. I will add to the list in due course.

drmark -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 7:18:48 PM)
That grace is "free", when in actuality it was purchased for a price higher than we can fathom.

JesKlu -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 8:00:59 PM)
Hello Ezra! When I was a Catholic, I remember having to work for my salvation. I had no assurance of salvation whatsoever. Now that I am aware of who Jesus is in my life, and reading His Word, the Bible, His Truth now sustains me and I enjoy having fellowship with the Christians that I am around now. This grace given to me is irresistable. I can't explain with words exactly how God's grace is working in me everyday but I can say what I had as a member in the Roman Catholic Church was so small, but now, God is providing so much and it must be because of not misunderstanding Him now. Grace is the narrow path to me. Your sister in Christ Jesus, Jessica

Godhead -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 8:02:59 PM)
No one can be justified by obeying the law but by believing in the redemption we have in Christ's sacrifices on the cross. Sins in the Old Testament could only be taken away by a sacrifice, it is no different today, only we have the Son of God and his sacrifice offered for the sins of the world. There was no sacrifice in the Old testament for wilful sin. If we continue to have sex out of marriage for example, we cannot claim to have forgiveness in Christ. It is only when that person or persons stop sinning that they can have forgiveness. They can even if they have been doing it for years, as long as they repent. Grace is not a licence to sin. We all struggle with sin, but it is they who willfully continue in them that have no forgiveness. On the other hand, if we admit that we have been willfully sinning, to God, then we can be forgiven if we repent. There can be no forgiveness without repentance. That does not mean we will never sin again but that we will not continue to do so if we do. We fall of the horse, we get back on again. We should not be afraid to get back on the horse because of a painful fall.

SpongeBlog -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 8:17:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra Even though the Bible has provided us with a very clear picture of God's grace, it remains one of the most misunderstood characteristics of God. For example, some believe that God's grace does not demand or command repentance. There are many other misunderstandings that are worthy of careful examination and rejection. Feel free to bring them up. I will add to the list in due course. Grace means three things to me that aren't easily understood. One, no one has to earn the opportunity to even be eligble for salvation. God's own zeal made the provision of Christ's sacrifice freely available to all. Only by grace is salvation even available to me. Two, God's grace is seen in the power He freely gives to live the requirement of a repentant life. And three, God's grace means He will teach and encourage us through various ways to walk in the power He has graciously provided, even when we are unable to or neglect to do so. In the end, stubborn refusal to receive any aspect of God's grace will effectively remove you from the benefits of that grace. Grace does not relieve us of our obligation, as Paul says, to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh.

Godhead -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 8:21:19 PM)
I believe that only by Gods grace, are we able to receive it [8D]

PeterD -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 8:54:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JesKlu Hello Ezra! When I was a Catholic, I remember having to work for my salvation. I had no assurance of salvation whatsoever. Now that I am aware of who Jesus is in my life, and reading His Word, the Bible, His Truth now sustains me and I enjoy having fellowship with the Christians that I am around now. This grace given to me is irresistable. I can't explain with words exactly how God's grace is working in me everyday but I can say what I had as a member in the Roman Catholic Church was so small, but now, God is providing so much and it must be because of not misunderstanding Him now. Grace is the narrow path to me. Your sister in Christ Jesus, Jessica Hello Jessica! Matthew 11:30 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." I would agree about grace being the narrow path to me also, to us Christ Jesus leads the way home through having faith in him through his Grace. Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? misunderstand 1 : to fail to understand 2 : to interpret incorrectly http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misunderstood I believe James is writing about how we as Christians are not called to serve two masters! James 3:13-18 Wisdom from Above 13Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom. 14But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. 15This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice. 17But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. James 4:1-10 Warning Against Worldliness 1What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions are at war within you? 2You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask. 3You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. 4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, "He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us"? 6But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble." 7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you. Simon the Magician greatly misunderstood God's Grace!!! Acts 8:9-24 Simon the Magician Believes 18Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, 19saying, "Give me this power also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." 20But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. PeterD

Godhead -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 9:09:54 PM)
Some good verses there PeterD. Yes the true work of grace is to set our hearts on what is of real value. We are only dissatisfied when our hearts want what we cannot have. We should be satisfied with whatever God has given us and no more. I find that people are always upset and angry only because they cannot get what they want. God should be our exceedingly great reward.

colliefan -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 9:24:50 PM)
Because we misunderstand the depths of our sin.

Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 9:37:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Godhead I believe that only by Gods grace, are we able to receive it Amen! 1 John 4:19 19 We love him, because he first loved us. The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Godhead -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 9:45:15 PM)
I doubt whether we could resist God's grace given to us by Him any more then we could resist the Devil without it [:D]

Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 10:04:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Godhead I doubt whether we could resist God's grace given to us by Him any more then we could resist the Devil without it [:D] Keep up the good preachin'! You're on a roll! [:D]

drmark -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/19/2008 10:28:52 PM)
quote: I doubt whether we could resist God's grace given to us by Him any more then we could resist the Devil without it Sorry, Eph4_32, but some of us do not consider the flawed doctrine of "irresistible grace" to be "good preachin'"! While God does indeed gives us the grace to choose to believe in Him, He also gives us the grace to choose to reject Him. Thus, grace cannot by definition be irresistible.

Ezra -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 12:51:41 AM)
Some very good clarifications regarding the nature of God's grace have been provided in the responses above: quote: That grace is "free", when in actuality it was purchased for a price higher than we can fathom. Amen. Only the Father knows what it cost the Son, and only the Son knows what it cost the Father. quote: I can't explain with words exactly how God's grace is working in me everyday This is very true. We experience God's grace daily but to express everything is words is difficult. That is why the Holy Spirit enables us to pray and praise as we ought to. quote: Grace is the narrow path to me. This is an excellent thought, since there were many in the apostolic churches who believed that grace was a license to sin. But Scripture says that grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world. quote: Grace is not a licence to sin. This is a lesson we all need to take to heart. That is why the "Lord's Prayer" includes two requests: (1) Lead us not into temptation and (2) Deliver us from evil. quote: God's own zeal made the provision of Christ's sacrifice freely available to all. This is one of those profound truths that is so commonly misunderstood by the majority of human beings. The world's religions teach men to strive for their salvation, whereas the Gospel says that God provided HIMSELF a Lamb, so that we could receive the gift of eternal life. quote: Two, God's grace is seen in the power He freely gives to live the requirement of a repentant life. This is one of those profound truths that is often missed by believers. God's grace not only provides justification by faith, but also sanctification by the power of the Holy Spirit. No Christian is in bondage to sin, but we must mortify the flesh throught the power of God Himself. quote: Because we misunderstand the depths of our sin. How true. No sinner truly understands the "exceeding sinfulness" of sin. Only our holy God knows how offensive sin is. Therefore we can only approach God through the blood of Christ and clothed with His righteousness.

Mannamuncher -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 9:39:05 AM)
Man has an exaggerated sense of importance. Man is self-aware, self-actualized, self-sufficient, and some blasphemously believe self-made !!! The message of the cross (GRACE) is foolish to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God.(1 Cor 1:18) Acts 20:24 (New King James Version) 24 But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.

URForgiven -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 3:01:32 PM)
I thought the OP rather humorous, considering that it went beyond the question asked and attempted to give understanding in a way that misunderstood. "For example, some believe that God's grace does not demand or command repentance." This statement is an attempt to present a given, where there is none. In other words, it is fine example of the misunderstanding of grace. Although I do not believe that was the intent of the author. Repentance is moving out of our independence and into dependence, and the degree to which we are dependent, is the degree to which we have repented. We cannot live the Christian life...only Christ can live it through us. True repentance says, 'I can't', true faith says, 'Christ can.'

drmark -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 4:24:17 PM)
quote: True repentance says, 'I can't', true faith says, 'Christ can.' And true grace says, "So I will too".

Ezra -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 4:25:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven I thought the OP rather humorous, considering that it went beyond the question asked and attempted to give understanding in a way that misunderstood. "For example, some believe that God's grace does not demand or command repentance." This statement is an attempt to present a given, where there is none. In other words, it is fine example of the misunderstanding of grace. Actually your comments prove how greatly grace is misunderstood, in that you seek to circumvent the plain words of Scripture. So what you are saying is that the Gospel does not include a command to sinners to repent. This is, however, a blatant denial of the words of Scripture. When John the Batpizer began his minstry to the Jews, His Gospel message was "REPENT ye, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" (Mt. 3:2). The first words recorded from the lips of Christ as He began His earthly ministry were "REPENT, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" (Mt. 4:17) When Christ addressed those who reported to Him how Pilate had killed some Galilaeans, Jesus answered "Except ye REPENT, ye shall all likewise perish" (Lk. 13:3,5). When Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost -- the day the Holy Spirit was poured out from Heaven -- he said "REPENT, and be baptized every one of you..." (Acts 2:38). When Peter preached his second sermon to those who wondered at the healing of the lame man outside the Temple, he said "REPENT ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out..." (Acts 3:19). Whenever Paul preached the Gospel, whether to Jew or Gentile, he said that he had been "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, REPENTANCE TOWARD GOD, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21). In the face of all these Scriptures (and many more) your denial of the necessity of repentance in order to experience the the grace of God is actually a rejection of the true Gospel. You say this is not "a given". God says it is.

rcjames -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 4:30:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Godhead No one can be justified by obeying the law but by believing in the redemption we have in Christ's sacrifices on the cross. Sins in the Old Testament could only be taken away by a sacrifice, it is no different today, only we have the Son of God and his sacrifice offered for the sins of the world. There was no sacrifice in the Old testament for wilful sin. If we continue to have sex out of marriage for example, we cannot claim to have forgiveness in Christ. It is only when that person or persons stop sinning that they can have forgiveness. They can even if they have been doing it for years, as long as they repent. Grace is not a licence to sin. We all struggle with sin, but it is they who willfully continue in them that have no forgiveness. On the other hand, if we admit that we have been willfully sinning, to God, then we can be forgiven if we repent. There can be no forgiveness without repentance. That does not mean we will never sin again but that we will not continue to do so if we do. We fall of the horse, we get back on again. We should not be afraid to get back on the horse because of a painful fall. Careful Godhead, I am close to agreeing with you. Thsnks RC

URForgiven -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 5:05:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven I thought the OP rather humorous, considering that it went beyond the question asked and attempted to give understanding in a way that misunderstood. "For example, some believe that God's grace does not demand or command repentance." This statement is an attempt to present a given, where there is none. In other words, it is fine example of the misunderstanding of grace. Actually your comments prove how greatly grace is misunderstood, in that you seek to circumvent the plain words of Scripture. So what you are saying is that the Gospel does not include a command to sinners to repent. This is, however, a blatant denial of the words of Scripture. When John the Batpizer began his minstry to the Jews, His Gospel message was "REPENT ye, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" (Mt. 3:2). The first words recorded from the lips of Christ as He began His earthly ministry were "REPENT, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" (Mt. 4:17) When Christ addressed those who reported to Him how Pilate had killed some Galilaeans, Jesus answered "Except ye REPENT, ye shall all likewise perish" (Lk. 13:3,5). When Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost -- the day the Holy Spirit was poured out from Heaven -- he said "REPENT, and be baptized every one of you..." (Acts 2:38). When Peter preached his second sermon to those who wondered at the healing of the lame man outside the Temple, he said "REPENT ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out..." (Acts 3:19). Whenever Paul preached the Gospel, whether to Jew or Gentile, he said that he had been "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, REPENTANCE TOWARD GOD, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21). In the face of all these Scriptures (and many more) your denial of the necessity of repentance in order to experience the the grace of God is actually a rejection of the true Gospel. You say this is not "a given". God says it is. The Christian life is Christ, and repentance is dependence upon Him. It really is that simple. Peace

Mannamuncher -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 5:20:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven I thought the OP rather humorous, considering that it went beyond the question asked and attempted to give understanding in a way that misunderstood. "For example, some believe that God's grace does not demand or command repentance." This statement is an attempt to present a given, where there is none. In other words, it is fine example of the misunderstanding of grace. Actually your comments prove how greatly grace is misunderstood, in that you seek to circumvent the plain words of Scripture. In the face of all these Scriptures (and many more) your denial of the necessity of repentance in order to experience the the grace of God is actually a rejection of the true Gospel. You say this is not "a given". God says it is. The Christian life is Christ, and repentance is dependence upon Him. It really is that simple. Peace I am not assuming anything, just inquiring. URF, Are you saying we don't repent, that Christ repents (in a sense) for us through the grace of God ? No one would believe without the grace of God, so the grace of God causes belief, and repentance would have to proceed salvation. The grace of God would have to cause one to turn. Close ?

Lapidoth -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 5:37:09 PM)
GRACE = The power to become sons of God. (John 1:12)

URForgiven -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 6:00:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven I thought the OP rather humorous, considering that it went beyond the question asked and attempted to give understanding in a way that misunderstood. "For example, some believe that God's grace does not demand or command repentance." This statement is an attempt to present a given, where there is none. In other words, it is fine example of the misunderstanding of grace. Actually your comments prove how greatly grace is misunderstood, in that you seek to circumvent the plain words of Scripture. In the face of all these Scriptures (and many more) your denial of the necessity of repentance in order to experience the the grace of God is actually a rejection of the true Gospel. You say this is not "a given". God says it is. The Christian life is Christ, and repentance is dependence upon Him. It really is that simple. Peace I am not assuming anything, just inquiring. URF, Are you saying we don't repent, that Christ repents (in a sense) for us through the grace of God ? No one would believe without the grace of God, so the grace of God causes belief, and repentance would have to proceed salvation. The grace of God would have to cause one to turn. Close ? Repentance is absolutely necessary and Grace is unmerited by us. That is what makes it Grace as opposed to the Law with its demands and commands. There is nothing we can do to earn it, we can only accept it. True repentance is understanding that we are created to be in a dependent relationship with Jesus Christ - The same relationship that He had with God the Father, is the same relationship that Jesus now desires to have with us - This relationship is only possibly when we realize that we cannot...only God can. This is true repentance and the result is an attitude of faith. We, as Christians, are indwelt by God Himself. He desires to live through us. We are the body of Christ. HE is the head.

drmark -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 8:51:20 PM)
quote: quote: quote: The Christian life is Christ, and repentance is dependence upon Him. It really is that simple. Are you saying we don't repent, that Christ repents (in a sense) for us through the grace of God? This relationship is only possibly when we realize that we cannot...only God can. We cannot what? We cannot repent for our sin? We cannot believe on the Lord? We cannot choose to live a holy life? Or we cannot do these things without the wonderful grace of God - that I will agree to! God does NOT repent, believe or live our lives for us but rather in, with and through us. Big difference, URF.

URForgiven -> RE: Why is grace so greatly misunderstood? (4/20/2008 9:03:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: drmark quote: quote: quote: The Christian life is Christ, and repentance is dependence upon Him. It really is that simple. Are you saying we don't repent, that Christ repents (in a sense) for us through the grace of God? This relationship is only possibly when we realize that we cannot...only God can. We cannot what? We cannot repent for our sin? We cannot believe on the Lord? We cannot choose to live a holy life? Or we cannot do these things without the wonderful grace of God - that I will agree to! God does NOT repent, believe or live our lives for us but rather in, with and through us. Big difference, URF. This relationship is only possible when you realize you cannot be God. Repentance only happens when you are prepared to let Him be God.

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