Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (Full Version)

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dt29 -> Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/19/2008 9:42:47 PM)

OK, with my subject title has baited some people into looking at my post.....

A close friend lost his little brother this weekend in a tragic accident. The boy leaves behind a mother, father, sister, brother, grandparents, friends, etc....the list goes on.

Tonight I prayed with my friend. I specifically said that nothing happens outside of God's soveign rule and that even though I don't know what to prayer for among this storm, God knows exactly how to get the family through this and for most, how to help them deal with this the rest of their lives, as some deep losses are as such.

My point is, this family has a deep and fresh hurt of immense wordly power pressed against their face. How do you sit down with someone in the midst of this tragedy and pray with them? I have just to expect God to speak through me aloud in prayer, whatever is said is from the holy spirit.

I have a difficult time doing the "prayer request" or prayers of petition, because God gives to those He chooses and gives what He chooses.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/19/2008 10:34:51 PM)

I would pray that God would be with them and give them strength. And I would love them in little ways, by offering to help, providing transportation, whatever the Spirit brings to mind. Sometimes when we don't know what to say, we say the wrong thing. But showing up for the funeral, running an errand, etc. would most likely be appreciated.

Prayers don't have to be long.

Once I had the care of a little girl whose sister had been hit by a van. I tried to prepare her in a very gentle way that if her sister went to be with Jesus, He would take really good care of her. Her sister died. I had this little girl overnight and she didn't sleep, so I just held her on my lap.

God be with you and them.



mvic -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/20/2008 11:30:40 AM)

I'm really sorry to hear about your friend's loss and I'm praying for him and his family; and for you.

From your post you seem to be a pretty level headed person and I guess you are doing the right thing. As Ephesian4_2 suggested: be there for your friend and his family. Help where you can. You don't have to say prayers aloud with them; but pray silently that God gives them strength through this time of great pain. Sometimes, when the time is right and appropriate, God will prompt you to say something that may help your friend and his family. In the meantime just be there for them.

God bless you and them.



faithfulservant_ -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/24/2008 2:46:56 PM)

Good question dt29. Why should we pray to God if He is Soveriegn? There are 3 reasons.

1. We are tempted everyday in this fallen world.
2. We are flesh and we fall into sin.
3. Therefore, we must pray to God everyday asking for forgiveness and deliverance.

"Yet they tempted and rebelled against the Most High God And did not keep His testimonies, But turned back and acted treacherously like their fathers; They turned aside like a treacherous bow." (Psalm 78:56-60)

"Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you." (Acts 8:22)

"He said to them, "Pray that you may not enter into temptation." (Luke 22:40)



JordanW -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/24/2008 3:12:16 PM)

I'm sorry to hear about the death's. In the midst of a tragedy it can be very hard to pray for people, I don't doubt you on that. You can just tell them that you'll be praying for them and whenever you pray for them just let God lead you in a prayer and speak in tongues, or whatever God leads you to do.



SovereignIsHe -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/24/2008 5:26:33 PM)

You pray in complete faith that just as Paul penned, the Holy Spirit will...

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

No less than then the little brother who passed away, our prayer are in the hand of God... You will be guided..


John



csl7037 -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/25/2008 10:01:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

You pray in complete faith that just as Paul penned, the Holy Spirit will...

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

No less than then the little brother who passed away, our prayer are in the hand of God... You will be guided..


John


...Just don't use Romans 8:28 in talking to the family. When my mom died in a car accident, if one more person quoted that to me or sent me another stupid little plaque with that, I might've punched them. Truly. It's a great verse but something they'll have to grapple with when and however they are ready to. NOT something you throw at someone in this situation.

I struggle with this a lot. The quandry for me is that one of my spiritual gifts is inercession. Maybe that's why I've faced a lot of attack in this area. I hit a real rough time in the last couple years because of unanswered prayers. You have to chalk that up to God's sovreignty but that opens a big door to the, "well, why bother?" question. Wish I had some wise answer to the question but I don't.

I read this about Kathryn Kulman recently

"It is also said that Kathryn would weep as she watched the people leave who remained sick or in wheel chairs. She never tried to explain why some received their healing and some did not. She believed the responsibility remained with God. She liked to refer to herself as in sales, not management. Whatever Management decided to do, she would have to oblige. But she did say it would be one of he first questions she would ask God when she got to haven!"

I wouldn't say I'm called to be "in sales" if the Kingdom were corporation like her analogy - probably just an order processor or receptionist (relaying messages and requests). So I'm trying to come to grips with the idea that it isn't my position to question. But praying with or for someone sometimes really bring their hurt and pain right into your own spirit making it hard to be pragmatic - maybe that's my problem. I don't know. Just my own thoughts.



faithfulservant_ -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/27/2008 7:05:19 PM)

quote:

original: csl7037

You have to chalk that up to God's soveriegnty but that opens a big door to the, "well, why bother?" Wish I had some wise answer to the question but I don't.


Its a very valid question. I believe Jesus gave us the first answer as to "why we pray if God is Sovereign." Because Jesus knows that we are going to be tempted every single day of our lives, no one can escape it. Remember that Jesus was also tempted by satan. So here is the first answer.

"He said to them, "Pray that you may not enter into temptation." (Luke 22:40)


But I also believe Apostle Paul gave us the second answer as to why we need to pray to God everyday, even though God is Soveriegn.

"Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you." (Acts 8:22)



Sabellius -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/27/2008 8:57:29 PM)

This thread assumes something that is not true in my opinion. God does not decide everything, this is not found in Scripture. God does know everything. As He transcends time He alone knows the beginning of time and possibly the end as we may know it presently. God does not necessarily fix future events, we do by human will and actions. What you did yesterday, you did indeed do and those actions cannot truly be undone. They can be redone. The fact that I ate eggs and grits for breakfast yesterday is concrete fact. I did that and God knew I would. This doesn't mean He made me eat the eggs and grits.



faithfulservant_ -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/27/2008 9:13:27 PM)

quote:

original: Sabellius

This thread assumes something that is not true in my opinion. God does not decide everything, this is not found in Scripture.


Hi Sabellius,

I believe that God is Sovereign over all creation, which means He decides everything. But we cannot talk about it here because it would be a violation of TOS. There is another thread on God's Sovereignty in the "Christian Doctrine." Thanks.



Sabellius -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/27/2008 11:03:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithfulservant1

quote:

original: Sabellius

This thread assumes something that is not true in my opinion. God does not decide everything, this is not found in Scripture.


Hi Sabellius,

I believe that God is Soveriegn over all creation, which means He decides everything. But we cannot talk about it here because it would be a violation of TOS. There is another thread on God's Soveriegnty in the "Christian Doctrine." Thanks.


Yes, and He sovereignly chose not to determine future events. God transcends time. He created time and knows it from beginning to end. He has Incarnated with us or intervened in time to restore us back to proper relationship with Himself.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/29/2008 12:43:20 AM)

I, too, believe that God is Sovereign. Nevertheless, prayer is commanded and answers to prayer appear to be conditional.

Exodus 22:23, 27
1 Kings 3:5
2 Chronicles 7:14
Psalm 37:4
Isaiah 55:6
Joel 2:32
Ezekiel 36:37

Numbers 6:23
Job 42:8
Isaiah 62:6
Psalm 122:6
1 Timothy 2:1
James 5:14

Hebrews 10:22
Matthew 7:7,8; 21:22
Mark 11:24
John 14:13,14, 16:23,24; 15:16
Ephesians 2:18; 5:20
Colossians 3:17
1 Peter 2:5

Genesis 24:10-20
Genesis 32:24-30; 33:1-4
Judges 15:18-20
2 Samuel 15:31; 16:20-23; 17:14-23
Daniel 2:16-23
Nehemiah 1:11; 2:1-6
Esther 4:15-17; 6:7,8
Acts 12:1-12
2 Corinthians 12:7-10


"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." (Matthew 21:22)


"But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does." (James 1:6-8)


"When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." (James 4:3)


"Son of man, these men have set up idols in their hearts and put wicked stumbling blocks before their faces. Should I let them inquire of me at all?" (Ezekiel 14:3)

"Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save, nor His ear too dull to hear. But your iniquities have separated you from God; your sins have hidden his face from you so that He will not hear." (Isaiah 59:1-2)


"If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered." (Proverbs 21:13)

"If you remain in me and my word remains in you, ask whatever you wish and it will be given to you." (John 15:7)

Those are some interesting verses, eh?



faithfulservant_ -> RE: Why Pray?...God decides EVERYTHING (4/30/2008 9:34:37 PM)

quote:

original: Ephesians

I, too, believe that God is Sovereign. Nevertheless, prayer is commanded and answers to prayer appear to be conditional.


Yes, God is Sovereign.
Yes, prayers are commanded.
No, prayers are not conditional.

If God's love is unconditional, then all prayers have to be unconditional. If you are God's elect (chosen by God), then all your prayers will be answered (no strings attached, no preset rules, no conditions, etc). How can I have faith my prayers if they are conditional? That doesn't make any sense. It would be a paradox. For God's chosen people to have faith in their prayers, it has to be unconditional.

"Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you." (Mark 11:24)



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