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Was Simon Born Again? - 4/21/2008 8:48:45 PM
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walkin2e
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Acts 8 9-24: 9But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.
A. He believed and was baptized
B. He looked at the miracles and signs which were done by Philip
C. He offered money for the gift of the Holy Ghost
D. He wanted the power for a selfish reason (he was gonna make money off this power like he did when he was a sorcerer)
E. Philip told him that he had bitterness and was in the bond of iniquity
Even though Simon believed and was baptized, the scripture seems to indicate that his heart was not right before God. He had never been born of the Spirit. I know today there are many like Simon, who believe and are baptized but have not had a born again experience.
John 3 verse 5 "Jesus answered, Verili, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
walkin2e
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/22/2008 10:18:23 AM
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timf
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Was Simon Born Again?
One of the many problems inflicted on young people by seminaries is the idea that we can know everything. Even the word "theology" implies God is a subject to be studied and mastered. Often a result from this perspective is to make pronouncements regarding Biblical events that pigeon hole things into pre-defined doctrinal categories.
Your question brings a refreshing opportunity to approach the subject from the perspective of just what is in the text. I would like to expand upon your question by asking.
1. Was Simon a regenerated believer who was rebuked for the carnality of wanting to make money from the works of the Spirit he saw being demonstrated.
2. Was Simon unregenerated when he asked to purchase the power of the Spirit, but later became a regenerated believer?
3. Did Simon never become a regenerated believer?
As I read the verses, I think "Then Simon himself believed also:" is key understanding. The word belived here is pisteuo and is the word for faith and trust.
This would seem to indicate that Simon was regenerated (born again) because he trusted in Jesus.
A question arises when we subsequently read;
"that they might receive the Holy Ghost:" It now sounds like Simon did not have the Holy Spirit prior to the arrival of Peter. This would introduce the difficulty of faith without the Holy Spirit or faith that is not saving faith.
Another possible answer is that there are overlapping ministries of the Holy Spirit. There is the indwelling and regenerative work of the Holy Spirit that occurs at salvation and there was also a ministry of the Holy Spirit that was received by the laying on of hands. If we consider that it was a second ministry that was observed by Simon and that Peter came to impart, then we can see where Simon could have been "born again" before the arrival of Peter and the introduction of this second work of the Spirit.
This view would receive additional support as the writer of Hebrews mentions that the "laying on of hands" was an elemental part of Christianity in the early church that everyone understood. Some Christians today are inclined to believe that this still functions as it did during the period of the early church. Some of these people also believe that a person is not really a Christian until they demonstrate the working of the Holy Spirit. This view would tend towards the Simon was not "born again" when he was rebuked by Peter.
I would tend towards the Bible at face value and see Simon as "born again" but young in faith and seeing some commercial opportunities in the very dramatic and powerful works of the Spirit, made his request. I think Peter may have been a little sympathetic to suggestions made with little understanding if he would reflect on his offer to build shelters for Jesus, Moses, and Elijah.
Simon presents us with an interesting situation. Either the receiving of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands and in clearly demonstrable power was a secondary ministry of the Holy Spirit or believing in Jesus (pisteuo) is not sufficient for salvation.
There is a strong desire to see sin, carnality, failure, and back-sliding as all indicative of the unsaved. In a way it is a comfort for us to think ourselves superior to those who struggle with sin. I think that this perspective is dangerous in that it easily leads to the blindness demonstrated by the Pharisee in Luke 18.
While there are many church members who are not "born again", I would suggest that there may be many more who are, and like Simon, and have never grown in faith and knowledge of the Lord. Simon may have had the excuse of being new in faith to explain his worldly perspectives on things of the Lord. However, we may have greater guilt for never having been interested enough to seek after the Lord, cry out for wisdom, or hunger and thirst after righteousness.
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/22/2008 11:05:20 AM
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bob97
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quote:
While there are many church members who are not "born again", I would suggest that there may be many more who are, and like Simon, and have never grown in faith and knowledge of the Lord.
How can one be born again and not show the fruit of that relationship? Are they born again or just under the impression that they are? Seems to me that you either belong to Christ and respond or you aren't and don't...the knife edge is to sharp to just stand there, you fall one way or the other.
Bob
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/22/2008 11:15:25 AM
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john_mark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: walkin2e
17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
any thoughts as to whether this act of simon's is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? if it is how does that fit inot the picture?
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/22/2008 1:39:59 PM
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Bluethread
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I have real problems with adding to salvation by grace through faith, ie baptism(water, laying on hands, tongues or whatever), public confession, etc. What is the differnce between this and the requirement that a man be circumcized(converted to judaism) in order to be saved. I also think Simon Peter might have some understanding toward Simon the magician, given his personal experience. In short, I think we will be surprised who we see and don't see for that matter in the Kingdom of Adonai, when Yeshua returns.
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/22/2008 2:21:55 PM
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LCannon
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No one can judge the veracity of another's appropriation of Jesus' sacrifice/Victory except God(in three persons) and Simon himself. Belief/baptism(identification with His teaching and the church universal)indicates(to me at least)Simon understood and embraced the concept of sacrifice/obedience however, much as Aninas /Saphria, wouldn't shuck his 'khaki shell' of his society and used it as his own privilege rather then responsibility.
< Message edited by LCannon -- 4/22/2008 11:34:39 PM >
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/22/2008 4:37:10 PM
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GrahamCracker
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bob87 said
quote:
How can one be born again and not show the fruit of that relationship? Are they born again or just under the impression that they are? Seems to me that you either belong to Christ and respond or you aren't and don't...the knife edge is to sharp to just stand there, you fall one way or the other.
Bob
Bob,
We are only told of this particular sin. We are not told there was no other fruit/evidence of a relationship with God. The account as written was limited in its scope. We are not given enough details to conclude that there was no fruit. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Note that Simon did repent:
(verse 24) And Simon answered, "Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me."
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/22/2008 4:47:29 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LCannon
No one can judge the veracity of another's appropriation of Jesus' sacrifice/Victory except God(in three persons) and himself. Belief/baptism(identification with His teaching and the church universal)indicates(to me at least)Simon understood and embraced the concept of sacrifice/obedience however, much as Aninas /Saphria, wouldn't shuck his 'khaki shell' of his society and used it as his own privilege rather then responsibility.
Emphesis Mine
Good jab, but not worthy of discussion here, since it is off topic.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/23/2008 7:49:13 AM
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timf
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How can one be born again and not show the fruit of that relationship?
1 Corinthians 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Galatians 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
1 Corinthians 8:11
And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
James 4:1-4
From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Revelation 3:14-17
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
There is a difference between being mistaken, being ignorant, or struggling with sin, and "not showing fruit". The idea that a "real" Christian cannot have sin, big sin, or important sin is not Biblical. Consider the man in Corinth that Paul advised be rebuked in 1 Corinthians and restored in 2 Corinthians.
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/23/2008 10:47:31 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
bob87 said
quote:
How can one be born again and not show the fruit of that relationship? Are they born again or just under the impression that they are? Seems to me that you either belong to Christ and respond or you aren't and don't...the knife edge is to sharp to just stand there, you fall one way or the other.
Bob
Bob,
We are only told of this particular sin. We are not told there was no other fruit/evidence of a relationship with God. The account as written was limited in its scope. We are not given enough details to conclude that there was no fruit. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Note that Simon did repent:
(verse 24) And Simon answered, "Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me."
I concur Larry, vs. 24 showns sorrow, repentance, and seeking for the penalty for his sin to be excused (forgiveness).
This also speaks volumns for confronting sin in a brother so they might be restored to God.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/23/2008 1:32:15 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
3. Did Simon never become a regenerated believer? Church tradition (I believe supported by some statements of Josephus) is that Simon the sorcerer became a leader in the gnostic error that almost killed the church in the 2nd century. It was his intent to harm the church. I don't think he ever was born again.
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/23/2008 11:37:11 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.
Sounds more like remorse than repentance.
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/24/2008 6:21:33 AM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.
Sounds more like remorse than repentance.
How would you know?
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 4/24/2008 6:27:44 AM >
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/24/2008 11:54:21 AM
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Liveloved
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.
Sounds more like remorse than repentance.
How would you know?
Peter's beautiful plea to Simon is truthful and for Simon to be truthful about himself as well. Peter challenges Simon right at the core of his problem, his heart. His (Simon's) heart is not right. And Peter tells him to repent of his wickedness and ask the Lord for forgiveness so his heart can be made right.
And Simon's response? You pray. You do it for me. I don't want the consequences you're talking about. (obviously my paraphrase)
He is not owning his sin. He is not calling his sin sinful. Like David in Psalm 51, who knew his transgression and cried out for God's mercy, we must do the same. Only that is repentance.
Nor is he thinking he's deserving of the consequences. When we KNOW how our sin has affected God, we know He is justified in judging us! We don't excuse or wiggle our way out. We say "This is me, Lord! This is what I have done. I have done evil and I've done evil against You! And I am deserving of the punishment."
Simon is looking to the faith of others rather than to the Lord (you pray for me). He wants forgiveness but not at his own expense---truthfulness about himself.
Repentance requires truthfulness with God. Simon is remorseful (sorry that he's been caught in sin) but does not express contrition.
I think this is at the heart of the problem in the church today. We confuse remorse with repentance. Remorse comes from pride. Repentance is born out of humility.
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/24/2008 12:17:46 PM
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Bluethread
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I would differ from your definitions. Remorse is an emotion. Repentance is an Halachah(series of actions or lifestyle).
Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/24/2008 12:42:52 PM
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GrahamCracker
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Liveloved,
As I explained in my post #7, the account concerning Simon is limited in scope. You're suggesting that the limited information is all that he ever did. I would reply that we are only given so much information. But his heart's repentance could have been a whole lot more. Or, it may not.
DaveW's point that Simon later on opposed the church's doctrine could be true--or not.
quote:
Repentance requires truthfulness with God. Simon is remorseful (sorry that he's been caught in sin) but does not express contrition.
We certainly don't care for Simon's reply insofar as a discussion on mature repentance. But to conclude that he wasn't truthful with God or was unwilling to be truthful with God is reading too much into the passage.
Exactly how did you get the idea that he's only sorry that he was caught? Isn't that simply reading into the text? How do you know he wasn't truthful with God? We are simply not told enough to know that.
If Simon's repentance wasn't thorough, Peter should have confronted him on it. It would be wrong on Peter's part to stop at incomplete repentance, if that were the case. We are not told Peter did or didn't. Like so many encounters in the Bible, the full conversation probably isn't given.
quote:
We confuse remorse with repentance. Remorse comes from pride. Repentance is born out of humility.
The primary meaning of "repentance" in the Bible is a change of mind. In some contexts, it simply means that one reconsiders either their intended course of action or it may include a whole reorientation of their attitude and outlook. In all of my studies on the term, it's meaning is very broad. "Remorse," however, while found in the English dictionary, is not included in any Bible translation that I have run across.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/24/2008 12:47:14 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
I would differ from your definitions. Remorse is an emotion. Repentance is an Halachah(series of actions or lifestyle).
Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Bluethread,
You probably will not find the same meaning of repentance in OT Hebrew as you would in NT Greek. I would suggest (I got this from another source) that NT repentance is the adaptation of a Hebrew term. It may well include the word you included in your post.
To "turn" or "change one's mind" are among the meanings of repentance in the NT.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/24/2008 12:58:24 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
I would reply that we are only given so much information. But his heart's repentance could have been a whole lot more.
If we were dealing with another author, I would say that's true. But I believe God tells us what is needful. And the account of Simon clearly defines Simon as having a problem of the heart (in the gall of bitterness and bondage of iniquity) and his need for repentance.
But Simon shows his heart's concern---himself. It is God telling the story. Simon does not confess his sin. He does not see the harm his sin is to God or others. His concern is for himself and his own welfare.
His heart is God's concern and God has shown us his heart. Certainly God's desire was for Simon's repentance. But Simon. . .
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/24/2008 2:43:28 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
If we were dealing with another author, I would say that's true. But I believe God tells us what is needful. And the account of Simon clearly defines Simon as having a problem of the heart (in the gall of bitterness and bondage of iniquity) and his need for repentance.
If his problem was in his heart, then his repentance should be in his heart. His problem was envy. And prior to his rebuke by Peter and the subsequent response by Simon Magnus, we have no change? However did you conclude that?
quote:
But Simon shows his heart's concern---himself. It is God telling the story.
God does not tell us that. In fact, neither the narrative author (Luke) nor Simon Peter makes a reply after that. If Peter rebuked him for an insufficient reply, then you might have a case. But we simply have Simon Magnus' response as the end of the account.
quote:
Simon does not confess his sin. He does not see the harm his sin is to God or others. His concern is for himself and his own welfare.
As I said earlier. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." You are attempting to build a case on silence. It might very well be that Simon Magnus was insufficiently repentent. But frankly, we don't know that.
quote:
His heart is God's concern and God has shown us his heart. Certainly God's desire was for Simon's repentance. But Simon. . .
Acknowledging that he was in trouble with God is oftent he beginning of a mature development of repentance. When many of us (myself included) came to God initially, we really didn't understand full and complete repentance. We can no more say that Simon had no interest in full repentance than we can say he did--with 100% certainty.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/24/2008 4:21:22 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
I would differ from your definitions. Remorse is an emotion. Repentance is an Halachah(series of actions or lifestyle).
Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Bluethread,
You probably will not find the same meaning of repentance in OT Hebrew as you would in NT Greek. I would suggest (I got this from another source) that NT repentance is the adaptation of a Hebrew term. It may well include the word you included in your post.
To "turn" or "change one's mind" are among the meanings of repentance in the NT.
If I understand properly, the nature of the hebrew language is one of action and not state of being. Therefore, all verbs are action verbs. This is the mother tongue and culture of Paul, Luke and all of the other Apostles. Therefore, I would presume that the Apistolic Writings(new testiment) would carry the same sense unless clearly stated otherwise.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 4/24/2008 4:39:05 PM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/24/2008 5:42:12 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Bluethread,
You probably will not find the same meaning of repentance in OT Hebrew as you would in NT Greek. I would suggest (I got this from another source) that NT repentance is the adaptation of a Hebrew term. It may well include the word you included in your post.
To "turn" or "change one's mind" are among the meanings of repentance in the NT.
If I understand properly, the nature of the hebrew language is one of action and not state of being. Therefore, all verbs are action verbs. This is the mother tongue and culture of Paul, Luke and all of the other Apostles. Therefore, I would presume that the Apistolic Writings(new testiment) would carry the same sense unless clearly stated otherwise.
With regard to the nature of Hebrew, you've got me there. Belenchi could probably answer that question for us. One of us could PM him for some clarification.
I will agree that Paul (by virtue of his Pharisaic education) could probably speak Hebrew. And Palestinian Jews spoke Aramaic (closely akin to Hebrew) just as Western Diaspora Jews spoke Greek.
However, I would suggest that Peter's rebuke was in either Greek or Aramaic. In any event, all we have to go on is Greek. (I digress, I shouldn't do that.)
If I grant your premise, how does that change an internal change of mind (metanoia), if I follow you, to a "state of being"? Can internal thoughts be ONLY states of being? We would then be arguing whether or not Simon Magnus was in a state of "being repentant" versus whether or not he repented. I would argue that an internal thought is an action. It is just not observable as it stands. Certainly, there was the expectation is that the penitent should follow up with something observable (fruits worthy of repentance). But that is not to say that initially there was no repentance if there was no time to express all the mature aspects of repentance we desire.
In the case of Simon Magnus. His sin was internal (was his sin a state of being?). Peter pointed out that his was internal (envy). His repentance would therefore have to be a change of attitude (envy to non-envy), however we would label that. I cannot think of a good word for it right now.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 4/24/2008 6:37:01 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/24/2008 6:24:23 PM
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gmc4Jesus
Posts: 229
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: timf
Was Simon Born Again?
As I read the verses, I think "Then Simon himself believed also:" is key understanding. The word belived here is pisteuo and is the word for faith and trust.
This would seem to indicate that Simon was regenerated (born again) because he trusted in Jesus.
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I would tend towards the Bible at face value and see Simon as "born again" but young in faith and seeing some commercial opportunities in the very dramatic and powerful works of the Spirit, made his request.
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While there are many church members who are not "born again", I would suggest that there may be many more who are, and like Simon, and have never grown in faith and knowledge of the Lord. Simon may have had the excuse of being new in faith to explain his worldly perspectives on things of the Lord. However, we may have greater guilt for never having been interested enough to seek after the Lord, cry out for wisdom, or hunger and thirst after righteousness.
It appears to me that Simon was sincere in his belief and acceptance of Jesus, but still immature in his faith and not aware of how Christianity works. Just like I had to learn how to use this forum after I had joined, we all learn about what it is to live as a Christian after accepting Jesus.
See my post on Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? We receive the presence and power of the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ. There are plenty of New Testament Scriptures declaring us as HOLY, sanctified, saints, set apart, etc. to affirm that our relationship with God is because we believe in Jesus, not because we have engaged in certain religious works and refrained from certain sinful behaviors.
As we grow in our maturity and understanding of Christ, we modify our behavior and grow to maturity, living with the recognition of the Holy Spirit in us and learning to use its power to refrain from sin and witness for Christ.
Simon acted out of ignorance, but when admonished by Peter, he repented and asked Peter to pray for him. He sincerely wanted to be right before God. That is a step of maturity I wish I could see in many more Christians. What a powerful witness it is to Jesus as our Lord when a person's life is actually changed because they love Him and want to do what He says is right.
God bless you as you continue through the process of getting to know Jesus.
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Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 4/25/2008 7:26:30 AM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1764
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
If I understand properly, the nature of the hebrew language is one of action and not state of being. Therefore, all verbs are action verbs. This is the mother tongue and culture of Paul, Luke and all of the other Apostles. Therefore, I would presume that the Apistolic Writings(new testiment) would carry the same sense unless clearly stated otherwise.
Bluethread,
I just got a PM from belenchi concerning Hebrew tenses. There is indeed a "to be" tense in Hebrew. And it is not true that all verbs are action verbs. Care to try another angle?
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Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 5/19/2008 11:26:28 PM
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Tomb
Posts: 252
Joined: 8/31/2007
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If we just read what the word of God says in (Acts 8:13) we would see that what Simon done harmonizes with what we can read in (Mark 16:16) . Believe + Baptism = Salvation.
If we take the word of God without judging Simons motives, he has done what the Lord commands to be a N.T. Christian in verse 13. To suggest anything less / more is merely speculation. Afterwards Simon (now a Christian) sins to the point that Peter tells him his soul is in jeopardy.
We learn in (Heb.10:26-31) that it is possible for a Christian to be involved in wilful continual sin to the point that He/she is separated from God (Isa.59:1,2) (1John 3:4).
We are not given a time period in (Acts 8:12-24). We are not given all that happened during this period. We are just told what happen at this point in time. Simon reverted to his old man of sin and coveted the gifts of the Holy Spirit to the point he offered money to be able to do miracles. Because of this Simons soul was once again in jeopardy. Peter tells Simon exactly the danger he was facing spiritually (Acts 8:21-23). Peter also tells Simon to follow the second law of pardon found in (1John 1:9) (Acts 8:22). Simon asks Peter to pray for him so he may be forgiven. We can learn many lessons from Simon. I am thinking of (1Cor.10:12).
(1Cor.10:12) - Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
One other thing about this story we need to think about is that Peter knew what it was like to turn from the lord - (Mark 14:72).
(Mark 14:72) - And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.
GBNTV - Great Bible Lessons
http://www.gbntv.org/
< Message edited by Tomb -- 5/19/2008 11:44:45 PM >
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missionprinting.us - - click on publications
gospelpreceptor.com
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RE: Was Simon Born Again? - 5/20/2008 4:39:43 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1764
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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Tomb,
This is NOT a baptism thread.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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