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The Synagogue of Satan - 4/23/2008 1:26:13 AM
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Dakotasunbeam
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I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. --Revelations 2:9
Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. --Revelations 3:9
Who are they? How will they play out in Biblical prophecy? Are they already in existence? How do they play a role with the end time church, as Rev 2:9 seems to make them out to be a detriment to the church in some negative way. Any insights would be helpful.
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/23/2008 2:20:57 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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Okay, first off... the verses you have quoted are written to specific churches. The problem being addressed is that there were those who were either satanists or worshippers of demonic deities that were infiltrating the churches claiming to be Jews (remembering that the churches were mostly Messianic Jews) that were just there to cause strife, division, and offense.
Now on to the end times part of this. As it was then, it is currently and will be in the future much the same. However, rather than just casing division, these pretenders are going to be turning Christians over to the Antichrist's government. So the specific people being referrenced by John were already in existence at the time of the authoring of the book. However, there will be people like them in the end that will serve much the same purpose.
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/23/2008 10:11:21 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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FurGodWurLivin,
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Okay, first off... the verses you have quoted are written to specific churches. The problem being addressed is that there were those who were either satanists or worshippers of demonic deities that were infiltrating the churches claiming to be Jews (remembering that the churches were mostly Messianic Jews) that were just there to cause strife, division, and offense. So you're saying that people thought they were Jews? Were they practising Judaism or satanism? If they were practising satanism, it seems impossible that they would be able to pose as Jews.
quote:
Now on to the end times part of this. As it was then, it is currently and will be in the future much the same. However, rather than just casing division, these pretenders are going to be turning Christians over to the Antichrist's government. So the specific people being referrenced by John were already in existence at the time of the authoring of the book. However, there will be people like them in the end that will serve much the same purpose. So in essence the "synogogue of Satan" and these people who call themselves "jews" but are not, have been around for a long time. So you're saying these people will eventually rise to prominence to destroy the churches? And if they are lying about their heritage, why would they have anything to do with the church? Wouldn't they be a detriment to Judaism? I'm a little confused. I"m not sure if my question can be answered. But thank you, for your reply!
Adam
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/24/2008 5:44:50 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
So you're saying that people thought they were Jews? No. These people were pretending to be Jews, but they were not. Much as a witch will go to a church with the idea of disrupting it, this was much the same idea.quote:
Were they practising Judaism or satanism? Most likely they were practicing some form of paganism.quote:
If they were practising satanism, it seems impossible that they would be able to pose as Jews. Not really. Some Satanists pose as Christians pretty convincingly. You see it happening on the internet, you can find it in some churches, and you can even see it in some hardcore satanists who claim that Satan is actually God. It sounds twisted, but it's not that far out.quote:
So in essence the "synogogue of Satan" and these people who call themselves "jews" but are not, have been around for a long time. Pretty much. For example, in the space of time between about 45 AD and 335 AD (when the church was suffering the hottest persecution under the Roman empire), the Romans would hire people to infiltrate the local churches and turn them over to the authorities. Due to this, the church initiated an amazing structure where those who claimed to be converts would spend one year with a mentor learning the doctrines of the Apostles and have no contact with anyone else in the church. The beauty of that system being that if someone was lying, only the mentor would be vulnerable, or the person would actually come to salvation during that year.quote:
So you're saying these people will eventually rise to prominence to destroy the churches? What I'm actually saying is that when the Antichrist rises and makes in illegal to be a church, these people are going to be betraying entire congregations. Not necessarily that they will rise to prominence, but that they will be an in-road for the Antichrist.quote:
And if they are lying about their heritage, why would they have anything to do with the church? Currently about 85% of our nation claims to be Christian. Of that 85%, I would guess that only about half of them actually are, half the rest only go to church on Christmas and Easter, and all the others are "Christian" because that is how they were raised. Realistically, it makes more sense than you would think.quote:
Wouldn't they be a detriment to Judaism? That doesn't particularly matter, because the Jews are going to be in enough hot water anyway. The thing to remember about the context that the book of Revelation is written into is that the church of the time was still a sect of Judaism. Because Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, it is actually more correct to say that all us Christians are converts into Messianic Judaism. Now the difference is that the majority of us are not Jewish by our heritage, but Paul himself said that we are grafted into the cultivated olive tree that is Israel. But that is a different topic altogether.
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/24/2008 10:26:34 AM
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bob97
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quote:
Currently about 85% of our nation claims to be Christian. Of that 85%, I would guess that only about half of them actually are, half the rest only go to church on Christmas and Easter, and all the others are "Christian" because that is how they were raised. Realistically, it makes more sense than you would think.
Try 20% which I think is a much more realistic number.
quote:
the majority of us are not Jewish by our heritage,
Only the decedents of the House of Israel and the House of Judah are chosen of God.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/24/2008 8:14:19 PM
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fallenstar
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Okay. Three things to say to FurGodWurLivin and Dakotasunbeam. Satanism was'nt founded until the 1960's so it's impossible that there were Satanists thousands of years ago, when this was occuring. Second, Satanists don't believe in God or Satan, they don't really believe in anything but that when you die you just rot in the ground, that sort of thing. Third, anybody who says they are a Satanist and that they worship the anti-chirst is just a anti-christ worshiper, not a Satanist. Satanism is actually a founded religon in America. No offense to anybody reading this who knows Satanists or has a form of respect for it, but that religon stinks! Not only is it based on revenge and sexual sin, but it also has no morales and is just a down a path of selfishness and material pleasures.
The point of what I posted before, the part talking to Fur and Dakota, was just to point out the difference between luciferian worship and Satanism. You needed to know, just because you were giving false information.
[Edited by mod - TOS 5]
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 4/24/2008 9:14:59 PM >
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/27/2008 7:29:04 PM
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eschatologist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Currently about 85% of our nation claims to be Christian. Of that 85%, I would guess that only about half of them actually are, half the rest only go to church on Christmas and Easter, and all the others are "Christian" because that is how they were raised. Realistically, it makes more sense than you would think.
Try 20% which I think is a much more realistic number.
quote:
the majority of us are not Jewish by our heritage,
Only the decedents of the House of Israel and the House of Judah are chosen of God.
Bob
quote:
Only the decedents of the House of Israel and the House of Judah are chosen of God.
Only those who recieve Jesus as their Lord and Saviour are the chosen people of God. Every person of every kindred, tongue and nation who recieve Jesus are the chosen people of God to whom the promises were made. Everybody else is of the Synogogue of Satan, including the Christ rejecting, christ crucifying, God-hating Jews.
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/27/2008 8:15:09 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
Everybody else is of the Synogogue of Satan, including the Christ rejecting, christ crucifying, God-hating Jews. ............ oh my....... Eschatologist, might I direct thee to an intensive study of Romans 9-11?
quote:
Okay. Three things to say to FurGodWurLivin and Dakotasunbeam. Satanism was'nt founded until the 1960's so it's impossible that there were Satanists thousands of years ago, when this was occuring. Second, Satanists don't believe in God or Satan, they don't really believe in anything but that when you die you just rot in the ground, that sort of thing. Third, anybody who says they are a Satanist and that they worship the anti-chirst is just a anti-christ worshiper, not a Satanist. Satanism is actually a founded religon in America. No offense to anybody reading this who knows Satanists or has a form of respect for it, but that religon stinks! Not only is it based on revenge and sexual sin, but it also has no morales and is just a down a path of selfishness and material pleasures.
The point of what I posted before, the part talking to Fur and Dakota, was just to point out the difference between luciferian worship and Satanism. You needed to know, just because you were giving false information. Fallenstar. I said "satanism" because it is a shorthand, non-confusing way to say what I needed to say. Were we to be absolutely precise, we would have to delve into the history books to find out exactly which deities those cities worshipped, and then give that religion a name. Because "Satan" and "Lucifer" are referring to the same person in the Judeo-Christian mindset, the vast majority of people in America who hear the word "satanism" will jump to the occult and luciferianism. That's a lot of words to say "we are splitting hairs".
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/27/2008 11:25:10 PM
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tracydolls
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Can I throw this in here.
Revelation 2:12 "Pergamos. ,
Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
The Pergamon Altar is a massive structure originally built in the 2nd century BC in the Ancient Greek city of Pergamon. The temple was dedicated to the greek god Zeus. The Pergamon Altar was shipped out of the Ottoman Empire from the original excavation site by the German archeological team lead by Carl Humann, and reconstructed in the Pergamon Museum in Berlin in the 19th century, where it can be seen alongside other monumental structures such as the Ishtar Gate from Babylon.
http://formerthings.com/throneofsatan.htm
That said Americans are this Church.
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/28/2008 5:53:29 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
That said Americans are this Church. Tracy, I would argue severely with this claim. Why? Because the Laodicean Church was the Laodicean Church. The church specifically being referrenced by that passage of scripture does not exist. Now, there are plenty of churches that act the exact same way... in the US, Great Britain, France... anywhere where there is not either persecution or full-fledged revival, there are bound to be churches who are similar in behavior and description to the Laodiceans.
IMO, the anti-American kick is really getting old. As an American who is actively trying to stay hot, I find it incredibly disrespectful to lable all of us as the Laodiceans.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/28/2008 11:14:49 AM
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tracydolls
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quote:
Tracy, I would argue severely with this claim. Why? Because the Laodicean Church was the Laodicean Church. The church specifically being referrenced by that passage of scripture does not exist. Now, there are plenty of churches that act the exact same way... in the US, Great Britain, France... anywhere where there is not either persecution or full-fledged revival, there are bound to be churches who are similar in behavior and description to the Laodiceans.
IMO, the anti-American kick is really getting old. As an American who is actively trying to stay hot, I find it incredibly disrespectful to lable all of us as the Laodiceans.
All Scripture is Revelant for past, present, and future, we are one of the churches , wher do you think we fit in? Ok I label it better for you, WE ACT LIKE THE LAODICEANS. And as a American I have freedom of Speech to talk about this country as much as I want.
I'm always surprised that people that love america, want free speech until they hear something they don't like.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/28/2008 2:36:25 PM
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1love1God1way
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Who says we are one of the churches?
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love.ben
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/28/2008 5:22:54 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
Who says we are one of the churches?
Whos says we are not?
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Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/28/2008 6:01:09 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Who says we are one of the churches?
Whos says we are not?
I just didn't see any basis to automatically assume America had to fit right into the book of Revelation.
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love.ben
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/28/2008 8:25:11 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Who says we are one of the churches?
Whos says we are not?
I just didn't see any basis to automatically assume America had to fit right into the book of Revelation.
Neither do I, but then again I am not a Tim LaHaye 'Left Behind' dispensationalist.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/28/2008 10:11:45 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
Neither do I, but then again I am not a Tim LaHaye 'Left Behind' dispensationalist.
What is that?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/29/2008 2:35:50 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
What is that? ... completely irrelevant...quote:
All Scripture is Revelant for past, present, and future, we are one of the churches , wher do you think we fit in? You have (thus far) given no arguments to back up your assertion. The fact is that the scripture you are quoting was specifically adressed to the Laodicean church. The seven churches in Revelation were seven literal churches, and those messages were meant specifically for those churches... hence, they are adressed... to those churches. Now, there are people who act like the Laodiceans, sure. Just like there are people who act like the Ephesians, the Philadelphians, or any other Biblical group you should like to name. As far as where I think we fit in? I think the United States of America is not mentioned in Biblical prophecy specifically because we are not one of the major players in the end-times scenario. I have specific reasons for this, but I think I will keep them to myself, as this is not the thread for it. As for your assertion of all scripture being relevant for past, present, and future, I would tentatively agree. However, the instructions for the sacrifice of atonement and the rules of priesthood are no longer relevant to the church because we have all been made kings and priests and Christ was the final sacrifice for sin... but that is obviously beside the point.quote:
And as a American I have freedom of Speech to talk about this country as much as I want.
I'm always surprised that people that love america, want free speech until they hear something they don't like. I did not say anything insinuating that you did not have the right to say what you said. All I said is that I think it is getting old, and I think it is disrespectful. You have the national right to say it, but that doesn't mean you necessarily should either. Tirade aside, you have the right to say what you did, just as much as I have the right to say that I think it is in poor taste.
That said, I think we should be getting back to the topic...............
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/29/2008 10:28:56 AM
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tracydolls
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quote:
What is that? ... completely irrelevant...
Why can't I ask a question what is a dispensationalist?
Fur,
I believe the present and future Churches are being talked about in Revelations. A book about the future.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/29/2008 11:23:55 AM
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Midwest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
What is that? ... completely irrelevant...
Why can't I ask a question what is a dispensationalist?
No one said you could not ask, it appears FurGodWurLivin feels that it is "... completely irrelevant..." and chose not to explain it as a result. If you are interested do a lttle research start with a Google Search or whatever search engine you prefer.
quote:
I believe the present and future Churches are being talked about in Revelations. A book about the future.
Could it be that the book is about past, present and future (from John's perspective)? Let's look at what John was told.
Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/29/2008 1:45:15 PM
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tracydolls
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I think I kinda fit the loose terms, but I disagreed with Left Behind alot! So I kinda wanted to have "earthless" explain further. When talking to him I have learned alot, so I was mearly being curious.
A typo, past, present and future is what I usually type.
does this mean people think this will not end?
also no one posted about the pergomos alter being moved.
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Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/29/2008 3:13:41 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1791
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From: Kansas
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quote:
Only those who recieve Jesus as their Lord and Saviour are the chosen people of God. Every person of every kindred, tongue and nation who recieve Jesus are the chosen people of God to whom the promises were made. Everybody else is of the Synogogue of Satan, including the Christ rejecting, christ crucifying, God-hating Jews.
So you are saying that God will not fulfill his word?
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/29/2008 8:24:54 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
What is that? ... completely irrelevant...
Adam
It's not, but thanks for playing.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/30/2008 4:59:19 AM
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tracydolls
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quote:
You have (thus far) given no arguments to back up your assertion. The fact is that the scripture you are quoting was specifically adressed to the Laodicean church. The seven churches in Revelation were seven literal churches, and those messages were meant specifically for those churches... hence, they are adressed... to those churches.
Ok, All Scripture is revelant for yesterday, today and tommorow,
Thoses verses are revelent for a Church today, they were revelent for one yesterday, etc.
When i pick up the Bible and read that verse, I can see our Church, turn on TBN, they fit that Church.
why doesnt anyone like that Church for us?
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
I see we can repent of it.
what's wrong with that?
quote:
As far as where I think we fit in? I think the United States of America is not mentioned in Biblical prophecy specifically because we are not one of the major players in the end-times scenario
An empire this big? Will america not be here in the end times at all?, we will already be gone, what?
Back to Op, I would have to study that one more, the church of Philadelphia, right? Or Smyrna?
I would be interested to see who people think they are too.
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 4/30/2008 5:11:51 AM >
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: The Synagogue of Satan - 4/30/2008 10:53:41 AM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
I would be interested to see who people think they are too.
Churches from the 1st century.
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love.ben
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